Pretrib Poll

[B-A-C]

Very very true. Thessalonians says he who letteth will let until he be taken out of the way. That would be the Spirit. Jesus said he would never leave nor forsake us. So when Spirit goes......I go

If it's the Holy Spirit that gets taken away, how do people get saved during the tribulation? Also... where did "Jesus" say He would never leave us or forsake us?

 

[lentz]

If it's the Holy Spirit that gets taken away, how do people get saved during the tribulation? Also... where did "Jesus" say He would never leave us or forsake us?

The Spirit will convict as it did all through time,but will not be indwelling as with the church.
As far as Jesus Jesus saying he would never leave us. You should have learned in sundy scbool as a child.

 

[Brother Paul]

Do you think there will be a rapture of the Church before Tribulation?

Not before the Anti-Christs reign. we are caught up and raised at the same time he is consumed. At His coming!

 

[Butch5]

Do you think there will be a rapture of the Church before Tribulation?

No!

 

[Butch5]

Very very true. Thessalonians says he who letteth will let until he be taken out of the way. That would be the Spirit. Jesus said he would never leave nor forsake us. So when Spirit goes......I go

Are you sure it would be the Spirit? God has multitudes of angels.

 

[Butch5]

The Spirit will convict as it did all through time,but will not be indwelling as with the church.
As far as Jesus Jesus saying he would never leave us. You should have learned in sundy scbool as a child.

We have to look at that passage I Context. Paul quotes that in Hebrews. He's quoting it from Joshua.

Joshua 1:7–9 (KJV 1900): Only be thou strong and very courageous, that thou mayest observe to do according to all the law, which Moses my servant commanded thee: turn not from it to the right hand or to the left, that thou mayest prosper whithersoever thou goest. 8 This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success. 9 Have not I commanded thee? Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee whithersoever thou goest.

Notice the condition. Joshua was not to depart from the Law. We see what happened when Israel sinned shortly after this.

Joshua 7:10–12 (KJV 1900): And the Lord said unto Joshua, Get thee up; wherefore liest thou thus upon thy face? 11 Israel hath sinned, and they have also transgressed my covenant which I commanded them: for they have even taken of the accursed thing, and have also stolen, and dissembled also, and they have put it even among their own stuff. 12 Therefore the children of Israel could not stand before their enemies, but turned their backs before their enemies, because they were accursed: neither will I be with you any more, except ye destroy the accursed from among you.

We see that God was them as long as they kept His commands, they obeyed the covenant. It's the same with Christians. The book of Hebrews was written to encourage Jewish believers to remain faithful in the face of persecution. Paul was reminding then that God is faithful as long as we are. If we break the covenant God is no longer required to uphold His end.

 

[Curtis]

Luk 21:34 "But take heed to yourselves, lest your hearts be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness, and cares of this life, and that Day come on you unexpectedly.

Luk 21:35 For it will come as a snare on all those who dwell on the face of the whole earth.

Luk 21:36 Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man."

 

[Bob Carabbio]

If it's the Holy Spirit that gets taken away, how do people get saved during the tribulation?

Why do we suppose that any do??

Also... where did "Jesus" say He would never leave us or forsake us?

If pre-trib is accurate, He never does.

But HEY!!!! it nothing but "Theology" after all.

 

[Brad Huber]

Why do we suppose that any do??

If pre-trib is accurate, He never does.

But HEY!!!! it nothing but "Theology" after all.

So you think God forsakes christians every time that they endured persecution? That would mean he forsook most of the early church accordingly. Jesus said we must pick up our own cross, just that He would make our burdens lighter.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

So you think God forsakes christians every time that they endured persecution?

What makes you think that?? I certainly never said He did. The Bible appears to indicate that the Holy Spirit will be taken OUT during the "Tribulation", but since we go with Him, no problem. But it's only "Eschatology" - i.e. "Rank Speculation".

 

[B-A-C]

If it's the Holy Spirit that gets taken away, how do people get saved during the tribulation?

Why do we suppose that any do??

Well, it's one of two things, people are already saved and the pre-trib didn't happen, or else people get saved during the tribulation. ( I suspect both ).

Rev 7:13; Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, "These who are clothed in the white robes, who are they, and where have they come from?"
Rev 7:14; I said to him, "My lord, you know." And he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Matt 24:29; "But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
Matt 24:30; "And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory.
Matt 24:31; "And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

Mark 13:24; "But in those days, after that tribulation, THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT,
Mark 13:25; AND THE STARS WILL BE FALLING from heaven, and the powers that are in the heavens will be shaken.
Mark 13:26; "Then they will see THE SON OF MAN COMING IN CLOUDS with great power and glory.
Mark 13:27; "And then He will send forth the angels, and will gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest end of the earth to the farthest end of heaven.

All of these verse say people will be either saved during the tribulation, or before the tribulation but not raptured until after the tribulation.

Rev 20:4; Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

Some people will be beheaded, because of their testimony of Jesus. They won't take the mark of the beast. Who are these people who have a testimony of Jesus during the reign of the beast?
Why are they still here? Why didn't they get raptured already if no one gets saved during the tribulation?

Unless of course Matt 24:31; and Mark 13:27 are correct and the elect get raptured "after" the tribulation. Perhaps these people were already saved before the tribulation begins.

Matt 24:21; "For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will.
Matt 24:22; "Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.

..."for the sake of the elect"? Why are the elect still here during the tribulation?

Mark 13:19; "For those days will be a time of tribulation such as has not occurred since the beginning of the creation which God created until now, and never will.
Mark 13:20; "Unless the Lord had shortened those days, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect, whom He chose, He shortened the days.

So if there is a pre-trib rapture, then there will be another one after the tribulation to get these people. But the Bible seems to say there are only two, one for the saved, and one for everyone else.
If you miss the first resurrection, it's bad news for you.

Rev 20:5; The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6; Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

Rev 9:3; Then out of the smoke came locusts upon the earth, and power was given them, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
Rev 9:4; They were told not to hurt the grass of the earth, nor any green thing, nor any tree, but only the men who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads.

Why are there people with "the seal of God" on their foreheads still here during the tribulation?

But either way, there will be saved believers here until the end of the tribulation. How is that possible if the Holy Spirit leaves?

 

[Bob Carabbio]

But either way, there will be saved believers here until the end of the tribulation. How is that possible if the Holy Spirit leaves?

Fortunately it's all nothing but "Theology", and when it actually plays out, we'll find out what it was all about. In my case, I'll probably watch it from the other side of the grass.

 

[Curtis]

When the Apostle John was asked who a certain group of people were he did not know.

Rev 7:13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

If they were part of the Church he would have known who they were. Now he learns that they all came out of the great tribulation and had been martyred for their faith.

Then the scripture tells us what these people will do continually.

Rev 7:15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

This is not what the Church will do through eternity.


Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Two different groups of people who both have eternal life but have different roles in God's eternal Kingdom.

One group serves God in His Temple forever while the other group reigns with Christ forever.