PROBLEMS WITH THE CATHOLIC CHURCH

[KingJ]

PROBLEMS WITH THE CATHOLIC CHURCH (at large)

There are many spiritual truths we have received from the Catholic church. For us Protestants, they are without a doubt our close brothers and sisters in Christ. Unlike our very distant cousins the Jehovah Witnesses and even more distant, the Calvinists.

But, sadly, within the Catholic church I see two material faults and three small matters that seem to more often than not, lead to a material fault.

1. Restricted movement of the Holy Spirit - Material fault 1

On one hand:

A - Catholics recognise the seven gifts of wisdom, understanding, counsel, fortitude, knowledge, piety and fear of the Lord.
B - They tick the blocks of the five ministry gifts mentioned in Ephesians 4, of apostle, prophet, evangelist, pastor and teacher.
C - They operate in all but one of the gifts mentioned in 1 Cor 12:8-10 (Gift of tongues).
D - They do a decent job at containing those 'crazies' that run around and embarrass Christianity by boastfully performing Matt 7:22 type miracles (prophecy, healing, casting out demons, forcing people to speak in tongues).

On the other hand:

On the day of Pentecost mentioned in Acts 2, the Holy Spirit fell on and anointed all that were in attendance. Every single person was empowered and able to operate in the gifts of the Spirit. In the Catholic church we do not see this. It should be encouraged and taught. Waiting on the Holy Spirit in faith and when overwhelmed with His presence, unrestricted freedom and confidence to operate in the gifts at a church meeting and or where He leads you to.

While there is a lot of truth to a priest and or elder being more responsible to deal with someone confessions, exorcisms and prayers for healing. I feel, as it relates to all the gifts, it is overly micromanaged. The fire that Holy Spirit creates in someone to serve freely is mostly extinguished and replaced with a ''if you want to serve God at that level, take a vow of celibacy, study for a long period of time and become a priest or a nun''. I have the utmost respect for priests and nuns. But the Catholic church does need to do a lot more in inspiring, teaching and nurturing the fire within every Christian to operate freely in the gifts of the Spirit.

A church should give members an opportunity to openly share, speak in tongues, interpret tongues, prophecy, pray and teach. I would say that the Catholic church is currently at a 1/10 on this. Some charismatic churches overdo it and are at a 10/10 'anything goes' level. We see a lot of carnality at this level. The sweet spot would be 5-6/10 freedom with some oversight and containment by appointed elders. You can't have chaos at meetings as Paul explains in Cor 14:26-40.

 

[KingJ]

2. Papal supremacy - Material fault 2

On one hand:

A - The position is fine. It can be supported with a verse like Matt 16:17-19, being the continuation of the position given to Peter by Jesus.
B - No pope has power to change scripture or introduce new dogma. Their position is to safegaurd the existing and fully complete word of God received from Jews, Jesus, Paul and the disciples.
C - Popes have only made two 'ex cathedra' (infallible) statements which pertain to Mary's immaculate conception and her physical body going to heaven.

On the other hand:

A - The pope has full and supreme power of jurisdiction over the universal church in matters of faith, morals, church discipline and government.

This is too much power. The Catholic church previously ran countries, the Pope was and currently is, basically like a king. Kings and monarchies died out for a reason. You never knew when you would get a crazy leader.

B - The doctrine of papal infallibility.

This ideology causes many to take some of his silly statements as gospel with no interrogation. Take recent LGBTQ++ statements as an example. Many Catholics are praying for the current pope to change his views and or better contextualise his statements in favour of scripture. IE Love sinner, hate sin, stop sinning.

 

[KingJ]

3. Vow of celibacy - small matter that often leads to a material fault

Paul says that we must remain celibate if we can. A celibate person can better serve God. A married person gets bogged down with serving family. If you can't, rather marry then burn with sexual desire 1 Cor 7:8-9.

If a priest molests a boy, he clearly can't contain. Unfortunately for the Catholic church, this is a large matter. Paedophilia is a mortal sin. So, I do believe that bishops would properly discipline guilty parties and try make right with the abused children.

Priests and nuns can step down and get married. No issues. Paedophilia should not be such a big issue in the church, very sad that it is. The dedication and sacrifice that a priest and nun make to the service of the church of Christ, is truly admirable!

4. Commercialism of indulgences - small matter that often leads to a material fault

On one hand, indulgences are not a bad thing. Giving something takes effort and sacrifice. Actions and qualities that God sees and will reward.

Sadly, although condemned by the church at large, there are many instances of abuse in this space. Whenever money is involved, it is always going to be hard to stop abuse.

It becomes a material matter as it tarnishes the reputation of the church and causes the rich to think they can buy their way into heaven. When church dogma clearly states they can't.

5.Overly sensationalizing relics - small matter that often leads to a material fault

There is absolutely no evil in keeping and restoring relics. It should give us butterflies when we see and touch them.

Many genuine relics were obtained and restored by the Catholic church at large. But today, this space has gone a bit nuts in two directions.

A - Many fake relics. Miraculously using science to keep 300 or so dead saints' bodies from rotting. None of this is really necessary. It is not from any evil intention. But it does result in a material matter for the church as it is embarrassing to ever hear or think that God would keep the bodies of dead saints from rotting. Scripture clearly says dust to dust, and that the flesh is weak and sinful Matt 26:41.

B - Many read more into the power of relics than they should. This could become a form of idolatry. Scripture is clear that as a Christian, our bodies are themselves a holy temple of God 1 Cor 6:19-20.

 

[KingJ]

@Christ4Ever Hi, as promised in post # 4 here So tired of all the ignorant bashing of Catholics, this thread is a list of the grievances I have with the Catholic church.

 

[B-A-C]

The pope isn't the head of the church. Jesus is.

Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church, He Himself being the Savior of the body.

Mary is not a mediator, you cannot pray to her, she does not hear your prayers. But even if she could, why would you pray to her?

1Tim 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
Heb 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.
Heb 9:15 For this reason He is the mediator of a new covenant, so that, since a death has taken place for the redemption of the transgressions that were committed under the first covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.
Heb 12:24 and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood, which speaks better than the blood of Abel.

Priests are no longer necessary. We are all priests now.

1Pet 2:5 you also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house for a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
1Pet 2:9 But you are A CHOSEN RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR God's OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;

There is no longer any reason to confess to priest who offers animal sacrifices to God. The sacrifice has already been made.

Mark 15:38 And the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom.
Luke 23:45 because the sun was obscured; and the veil of the temple was torn in two.

We can now enter the Holy place. We can now appear before the throne on our own behalf.

Heb 4:16 Therefore let us draw near with confidence to the throne of grace, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

We can confess our sins directly to God. No priest needed.

1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

There is no evidence Peter was ever a Pope, or ever in Rome. Paul would have been a better choice.
As Paul was the apostle to the Gentiles. Peter was the apostle to the Jews.

Rom 11:13 But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle of Gentiles, I magnify my ministry,
1Tim 2:7 For this I was appointed a preacher and an apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying) as a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.

Gal 2:7 But on the contrary, seeing that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been to the circumcised
Gal 2:8 (for He who effectually worked for Peter in his apostleship to the circumcised effectually worked for me also to the Gentiles),

Also we know Peter was married.

Matt 8:14 When Jesus came into Peter's home, He saw his mother-in-law lying sick in bed with a fever.
Mark 1:30 Now Simon's mother-in-law was lying sick with a fever; and immediately they *spoke to Jesus about her.
Luke 4:38 Then He got up and left the synagogue, and entered Simon's home. Now Simon's mother-in-law was suffering from a high fever, and they asked Him to help her.

1Cor 9:5 Do we not have a right to take along a believing wife, even as the rest of the apostles and the brothers of the Lord and Cephas? ( It appears James and Jude, the brothers of the Lord were also married )

 

[B-A-C]

Naming churches after Mary, putting up statues of her, and praying to her, is idol worship.

Exod 20:3 "You shall have no other gods before Me.
Deut 5:7 'You shall have no other gods before Me.
Deut 4:16 so that you do not act corruptly and make a graven image for yourselves in the form of any figure, the likeness of male or female,

Jer 7:18 "The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead dough to make cakes for the queen of heaven; and they pour out drink offerings to other gods in order to spite Me.
Jer 44:17 "But rather we will certainly carry out every word that has proceeded from our mouths, by burning sacrifices to the queen of heaven and pouring out drink offerings to her, just as we ourselves, our forefathers, our kings and our princes did in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem; for then we had plenty of food and were well off and saw no misfortune.
Jer 44:18 "But since we stopped burning sacrifices to the queen of heaven and pouring out drink offerings to her, we have lacked everything and have met our end by the sword and by famine."
Jer 44:19 "And," said the women, "when we were burning sacrifices to the queen of heaven and were pouring out drink offerings to her, was it without our husbands that we made for her sacrificial cakes in her image and poured out drink offerings to her?"
Jer 44:25 thus says the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, as follows: 'As for you and your wives, you have spoken with your mouths and fulfilled it with your hands, saying, "We will certainly perform our vows that we have vowed, to burn sacrifices to the queen of heaven and pour out drink offerings to her." Go ahead and confirm your vows, and certainly perform your vows!'

There is no purgatory of second chances.

Heb 9:27 And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment,

As far as indulgences, money cannot forgive your sins. Pennace cannot forgive your sins. Only the blood of Jesus can.

John 2:14 And He found in the temple those who were selling oxen and sheep and doves, and the money changers seated at their tables.
John 2:15 And He made a scourge of cords, and drove them all out of the temple, with the sheep and the oxen; and He poured out the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables;
John 2:16 and to those who were selling the doves He said, "Take these things away; stop making My Father's house a place of business."

Acts 8:20 But Peter said to him, "May your silver perish with you, because you thought you could obtain the gift of God with money!
Acts 8:21 "You have no part or portion in this matter, for your heart is not right before God.

There is much more to add. But I'm out of time right now.

 

[B-A-C]

There are many spiritual truths we have received from the Catholic church. For us Protestants, they are without a doubt our close brothers and sisters in Christ. Unlike our very distant cousins the Jehovah Witnesses and even more distant, the Calvinists.

I do not consider Mormons ( latter day saints), Jehovah's Witnesses, or Scientology to be Christians as they all deny
the deity of Jesus.

At least Roman Catholics and Calvinists do not do that. I would consider most Baptists to be saved.
Although in my experience they are just about all 3 or 4 point Calvinists. Some are 5 point.

 

[Rhema]

I do not consider Mormons ( latter day saints), Jehovah's Witnesses, or Scientology to be Christians as they all deny
the deity of Jesus.

Scientology has as much to do with Jesus and Christ as Buddhists do.

Might you have meant Christian Science?

And with regards to Mormons...

Do Latter-day Saints Believe in the Trinity? | Come unto Christ

Like many Christians, members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believe in the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. However, we believe They are three separate beings unlike the traditional concept of the Trinity. Click to learn how they are one in purpose, not one in body.

www.churchofjesuschrist.org

And just out of curiosity, @B-A-C (and NOT to hijack the thread) would you say that all non-Trinitarians "deny the deity of Jesus"? (Again, just asking for clarification with no need for continued discussion.)

Rhema

 

[B-A-C]

And with regards to Mormons...

My response to this is, if everyone is equally a god, then no one is a god. Yes they would say Jesus is god... "a" god.

And just out of curiosity, @B-A-C (and NOT to hijack the thread) would you say that all non-Trinitarians "deny the deity of Jesus"? (Again, just asking for clarification with no need for continued discussion.)

Technically no, there are non-trinitarians who believe in the deity of Jesus, that's true. But even so, that's a different God.

Scientology has as much to do with Jesus and Christ as Buddhists do.

Agreed, that was my point. Mormons and Jehovah's witnesses have as much to do with the Jesus I know, as Buddhists do.

 

[KingJ]

The pope isn't the head of the church. Jesus is.

I agree and so do Catholics. Please see post # 2, point A in row 3.

 

[KingJ]

Naming churches after Mary, putting up statues of her, and praying to her, is idol worship.

Exod 20:3 "You shall have no other gods before Me.
Deut 5:7 'You shall have no other gods before Me.
Deut 4:16 so that you do not act corruptly and make a graven image for yourselves in the form of any figure, the likeness of male or female,

Jer 7:18 "The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead dough to make cakes for the queen of heaven; and they pour out drink offerings to other gods in order to spite Me.
Jer 44:17 "But rather we will certainly carry out every word that has proceeded from our mouths, by burning sacrifices to the queen of heaven and pouring out drink offerings to her, just as we ourselves, our forefathers, our kings and our princes did in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem; for then we had plenty of food and were well off and saw no misfortune.
Jer 44:18 "But since we stopped burning sacrifices to the queen of heaven and pouring out drink offerings to her, we have lacked everything and have met our end by the sword and by famine."
Jer 44:19 "And," said the women, "when we were burning sacrifices to the queen of heaven and were pouring out drink offerings to her, was it without our husbands that we made for her sacrificial cakes in her image and poured out drink offerings to her?"
Jer 44:25 thus says the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, as follows: 'As for you and your wives, you have spoken with your mouths and fulfilled it with your hands, saying, "We will certainly perform our vows that we have vowed, to burn sacrifices to the queen of heaven and pour out drink offerings to her." Go ahead and confirm your vows, and certainly perform your vows!'

There is no purgatory of second chances.

Heb 9:27 And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment,

As far as indulgences, money cannot forgive your sins. Pennace cannot forgive your sins. Only the blood of Jesus can.

John 2:14 And He found in the temple those who were selling oxen and sheep and doves, and the money changers seated at their tables.
John 2:15 And He made a scourge of cords, and drove them all out of the temple, with the sheep and the oxen; and He poured out the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables;
John 2:16 and to those who were selling the doves He said, "Take these things away; stop making My Father's house a place of business."

Acts 8:20 But Peter said to him, "May your silver perish with you, because you thought you could obtain the gift of God with money!
Acts 8:21 "You have no part or portion in this matter, for your heart is not right before God.

There is much more to add. But I'm out of time right now.

Catholics do not believe indulgences can forgive sins.

 

[KingJ]

I do not consider Mormons ( latter day saints), Jehovah's Witnesses, or Scientology to be Christians as they all deny
the deity of Jesus.

At least Roman Catholics and Calvinists do not do that. I would consider most Baptists to be saved.
Although in my experience they are just about all 3 or 4 point Calvinists. Some are 5 point.

1-4 Pt Calvinists who do not believe in limited atonement are you and I.

5 pt Calvinists are closer to satanism. Definitely further from the truth then JW's, Mormons, scientologists, Buddhists and almost every other God-fearing 'Ish religion you can think of .

 

[B-A-C]

1-4 Pt Calvinists who do not believe in limited atonement are you and I.

I consider myself a 0 point Calvinst. I don't adhere to any part of TULIP.

 

[B-A-C]

Catholics do not believe indulgences can forgive sins.

Indulgences

An indulgence is the extra-sacramental remission of the temporal punishment due, in God's justice, to sin that has been forgiven, which remission is granted by the Church in the exercise of the power of the keys, through the application of the superabundant merits of Christ and of the saints...

www.catholic.com

II. WHAT AN INDULGENCE IS.​

—An indulgence is the extra-sacramental remission of the temporal punishment due, in God‘s justice, to sin that has been forgiven, which remission is granted by the Church in the exercise of the power of the keys,

Technically you are right, but I have to wonder why would you be punished for a sin that's already forgiven?
It would seem to me that if I'm still going to be punished, then I'm not truly forgiven.

 

[Peter1]

A Priest chooses to be one he knows he is married to Christ and his life is dedicated to God.Jesus said it is better to be single so that you can fully do this if your married your wife and children will come first. Its a teaching of Christ.He said many would not be able to do it.Its a sacrament of the Church one of the few that other churches don't practice.

The sacraments are not a doctrine of works they bring grace.These same sacraments that were rejected have come back to the Protestant church through the Holy Spirit.I have done the tour there is Baptism , Sacred marriage , i have even seen forms of communion even in non denominational churches.There are holy oils to heal what happened to faith alone it seems to of fizzled thanks to the holy spirit . The only 3 that can't come back are confirmation which is the acceptance of baptism and is when a Catholic fully receives the holy spirit confession and the holy order which is for Priest and Nuns only

You can scandalize the Catholic Church all you want I know the truth I went and looked I did not frighteningly repeat the slander I heard I went to see if it was lies or the truth..I assure you Catholics are saved by the sacrifice Jesus made just like everyone else its what they teach and full of the Holy Spirit.I actually though there would be a actual document of paper saying Jesus doesn't save works do - does not exist. I didn't realize they meant the sacraments.The Catholic Church also does not use prophecy nor will you hear it coming from the church.There is a divide between personal revelation and the core faith they are not allowed to mix.The core faith has not changed.The Pope can only speak on faith and morals everything else out of his mouth is fallible he can't prophesies he is not a prophet and if he was it would go to private revelation not in the Church or to the faith.You want the prophet he sits at the head of the LDS church and has the exact power that people claim the Pope has I was there too.His prophecies mix in with the faith.No one has to believe private revelation only the core faith in the Catholic Church.Its a old Church with lots of history they have to deal with it somehow.How does the protestant church deal with prophecy do they let it contaminate the core faith?

Believe me I have check it all out personally I don't go by what other people say I cannot not be led blindly.I am not a follower of ignorance.

There is only 2 religions that deny the divinity of Christ Unitarians and JWs.The LDS has a God head not the trinity they are all Gods including Satan who is also the Fathers son.God has his own body Jesus has his own body but the holy sprite has none but is a divine person.They are all separated but with the same will .Jesus came from a physical relationship God had with a unnamed female spiritual being shes not around anymore she I guess she took off.God has many sons in the LDS. Who told them all this to believe - the Prophet he tells them what to believe and he can make radical changes and you have to believe.If he say jump you say how high.So there is your prophet how does he go unnoticed?The LDS church to me there is Christianity but it has been changed by the Prophet.The theology will continue to be expanded as he thinks it up or is revealed as he sees it.They want to take over Christianity and bring us to the truth.We are the ones in error.Thats what I found out there.Never made it to the inner temple I just wanted to understand their faith and was never going to join.I was never a Mormon it was just part of my search for God.

 

[Peter1]

I also wanted to check out the Mary part of it do they think she is like God and Jesus?After looking into Mary it is special in the Catholic Church not because they believe she is equal to God the Father or Jesus.She is considered the first human being born not in a fallen state since Adam and Eve.Why do they think this - the Immaculate Conception - because its thought that Jesus could not of taken on fallen flesh so Mary could not be in a fallen state to give birth.She is the new Eve Jesus is the new Adam not in a fallen state as the first one is.Jesus is the first soul to reach heaven.That does not make her equal to God its what we all want.But it does make her special.Also if she is not in a fallen state she is capable of not sinning because she does not have a sinful nature.Yes Mark say Jesus had 4 brothers and 2 sisters but it does not say they are Mary's children its says Jesus mother was with them it didn't say their mother.Josephs was a old man who took her in so there was no scandal they would be his children for sure.One night an angel came to Joseph in a dream and told him that Mary's baby was the Son of God. The angel told Joseph to marry Mary and to name her baby Jesus. Jesus was to be the Savior of the world. Joseph obeyed the angel and married Mary..They were not two teenagers in love like in the movies and it was a very religious society not like today in the middle of a Roman invasion.None of them seemed to show up for the crucifixion Jesus had to ask John to take care of her Jesus and Mary would not be their real family and Joseph is gone.The Church is clear on who Mary is and she is not like God or Jesus.I guess that why Jesus would not have to save her because she was not in a fallen state. That is the only time a Pope has changed the faith - simple that Mary went directly to heaven because she was not in a fallen state.I don't see anything wrong unless you believe in it the wrong way and praise her like a God instead of being special.She is the number one saint in the Catholic Church and the mother of Jesus unless you know of another mother.In a male dominated religion it give women a connection which is who you will see venerating her and asking her to pray for them to God but there are men too. Most Catholics don't bother with it.

It doesn't make any difference to the faith its trying to explain things the theology does make sense to me but I'm not going to tell anyone to believe it.Jesus is going to save me not Mary she can't raise me up he is my God.But if its true she is special I agree.

I don't want to argue this is simply what is believed I can't change it.All the Mary apparitions are private revelation the Church investigates all claims some times for decades that simply they could not be from the Devil looking at all the theology behind it and if a miracle happened not that you have to believe in it.I don't have to believe in any of them.It would be unwise not to investigate by the Church.

 

[Rhema]

My response to this is, if everyone is equally a god, then no one is a god. Yes they would say Jesus is god... "a" god.

Understood. But then again, we do have this puzzler, do we not?

The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?​

(John 10:33-36 KJV)

I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.​

(Psalms 82:6 KJV)

Technically no, there are non-trinitarians who believe in the deity of Jesus, that's true. But even so, that's a different God.

I can see that yes. Trinitarians would have a different God (or "type" of God?). Thank you.

Agreed, that was my point. Mormons and Jehovah's witnesses have as much to do with the Jesus I know, as Buddhists do.

Sorry, I had thought you were listing Christian sects.

Kindly,
Rhema

Rhema

 

[Rhema]

I have to wonder why would you be punished for a sin that's already forgiven?
It would seem to me that if I'm still going to be punished, then I'm not truly forgiven.

Forgiven with respect Original Sin wherein one shall go to heaven.
But not quite out of the woods yet, with respect to the good works that God expects one to do by which we are justified.

As far as I can tell, instead of the Lutheran view that the death of Jesus pays for 100% of one's sin, He only pays the part that He knows you can't achieve. No one can do 100% good works to land a spot in heaven, but maybe you could do 78% percent, and so Christ covers (a more accurate English word for the Hebrew "Atone") Christ covers 22%. Now if you slack off and only do 62%, one still has 16% to make up in purgatory. However, if gifts to the church have merit toward salvation, then one's money could make up for that 16%, OR be accredited to the account of one's mother.

Me? God might know that I can only do 5% good, and so Christ covers me for 95%. But heaven help me if I slack off and don't do my 5%.

Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. ...Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.​

(James 2:17-18, 24 KJV)

Perhaps I oversimplify, but I'm pretty sure I understand the issue.

Rhema

 

[KingJ]

Indulgences

An indulgence is the extra-sacramental remission of the temporal punishment due, in God's justice, to sin that has been forgiven, which remission is granted by the Church in the exercise of the power of the keys, through the application of the superabundant merits of Christ and of the saints...

www.catholic.com

II. WHAT AN INDULGENCE IS.​

—An indulgence is the extra-sacramental remission of the temporal punishment due, in God‘s justice, to sin that has been forgiven, which remission is granted by the Church in the exercise of the power of the keys,

Technically you are right, but I have to wonder why would you be punished for a sin that's already forgiven?
It would seem to me that if I'm still going to be punished, then I'm not truly forgiven.

You are not properly reading the post. Indulgences cannot forgive you of sin. Please read this link, it explains it in detail. Myths about Indulgences

 

[KingJ]

I also wanted to check out the Mary part of it do they think she is like God and Jesus?After looking into Mary it is special in the Catholic Church not because they believe she is equal to God the Father or Jesus.She is considered the first human being born not in a fallen state since Adam and Eve.Why do they think this - the Immaculate Conception - because its thought that Jesus could not of taken on fallen flesh so Mary could not be in a fallen state to give birth.She is the new Eve Jesus is the new Adam not in a fallen state as the first one is.Jesus is the first soul to reach heaven.That does not make her equal to God its what we all want.But it does make her special.Also if she is not in a fallen state she is capable of not sinning because she does not have a sinful nature.Yes Mark say Jesus had 4 brothers and 2 sisters but it does not say they are Mary's children its says Jesus mother was with them it didn't say their mother.Josephs was a old man who took her in so there was no scandal they would be his children for sure.One night an angel came to Joseph in a dream and told him that Mary's baby was the Son of God. The angel told Joseph to marry Mary and to name her baby Jesus. Jesus was to be the Savior of the world. Joseph obeyed the angel and married Mary..They were not two teenagers in love like in the movies and it was a very religious society not like today in the middle of a Roman invasion.None of them seemed to show up for the crucifixion Jesus had to ask John to take care of her Jesus and Mary would not be their real family and Joseph is gone.The Church is clear on who Mary is and she is not like God or Jesus.I guess that why Jesus would not have to save her because she was not in a fallen state. That is the only time a Pope has changed the faith - simple that Mary went directly to heaven because she was not in a fallen state.I don't see anything wrong unless you believe in it the wrong way and praise her like a God instead of being special.She is the number one saint in the Catholic Church and the mother of Jesus unless you know of another mother.In a male dominated religion it give women a connection which is who you will see venerating her and asking her to pray for them to God but there are men too. Most Catholics don't bother with it.

It doesn't make any difference to the faith its trying to explain things the theology does make sense to me but I'm not going to tell anyone to believe it.Jesus is going to save me not Mary she can't raise me up he is my God.But if its true she is special I agree.

I don't want to argue this is simply what is believed I can't change it.All the Mary apparitions are private revelation the Church investigates all claims some times for decades that simply they could not be from the Devil looking at all the theology behind it and if a miracle happened not that you have to believe in it.I don't have to believe in any of them.It would be unwise not to investigate by the Church.

Mary's immaculate conception and assumption of her body to heaven are nowhere in scripture. These were two ex-cathedra beliefs introduced by two popes.

Many will now bash Catholics for adding to scripture. But the truth is that they are 100% open about the fact that 1. It is not a scripture-based fact and 2. It is the only two ex-cathedra (infallible) statements ever made by popes.