PROBLEMS WITH THE CATHOLIC CHURCH

[Peter1]

God did not create man to be in a fallen state the faith is a mystery in some things that can only be revealed when were with God.

Yes the 2 were added causing the controversy but only Catholics have to believe it.It doesn't change the core faith its a added explanation of the theology.It does put Mary without original sin God the Father would of done it himself to prepare for Jesus to take on flesh and a human soul to save us all.

 

[Brad Huber]

God did not create man to be in a fallen state the faith is a mystery in some things that can only be revealed when were with God.

Yes the 2 were added causing the controversy but only Catholics have to believe it.It doesn't change the core faith its a added explanation of the theology.It does put Mary without original sin God the Father would of done it himself to prepare for Jesus to take on flesh and a human soul to save us all.

Positive one and negative one basically cancel each other out. The catholics believe that if Mary was a sinner at conception of Jesus, the result would have been a flawed Jesus. So she was somehow made "perfect" so that the Holy Seed was not corrupted. Not saying I agree with it, but I can see why they might have assumed it.

 

[Peter1]

I will give my opinion on where the Catholic Church is and Pope Francis.

I think he sees everything falling apart around him hes under enormous pressure to give up papal authority to a shared authority.A lot of Catholics don't want it anymore and want a say in it all.It is a movement of the modern world.That will spell the fate of the Church when Papal authority lost the Church is done.It would be a new Church under shared authority.

Now I am going to go off the rail here.Something I have learned concerning a prophecy made about the Catholic Church.
Its very interesting and if its true we will see it play out.

The Malachi Prophecy.It is a prophecy listing all the popes from first to last with a cryptic description of each Pope.Where did it come from and when.A monk found it in the 1500s. After studying it its believe Malachi did not write it he was not a prophet or known for it so he has been ruled out.So they looked at the time period and found only 2 people who could of wrote it in the 1500s. A man who wrote a book at that time on the history of Popes so he would have the information on all Popes before 1500.The are only 40 that needed to be confirmed any pope after 1500.The other person was Michel Nostradamus it fits his writing style his cryptic nature and the time period.So some of the scholar who looked deeply into it believe it was him..The Catholic Church did not destroy it like they did with unknown prophecy.It sat in a library in France.It was not unusual at that time for a unknown Prophet to use a important name on the prophecy the Catholic Church did not like Michel Nostradamus so he would of done it that way.But for our sake we will only look at the last Pope on the List which would be Pope Francis.He is aware of the prophecy many of the last 40 were and used the cryptic description to describe themselves on their own Crests and Coat of Arms.If they believe it they cannot say all they can do is let it play out its private revelation.So Francis would be known as Peter the Roman.He is the Pope and the Bishop of Rome so it fits.I think he may believe its at a end.It simple say he would lead his people through trying time.You can certainly say that's true.It says after him or in his time the Church would be destroyed and the Great and Terrible Judge will come.
So it would be the end.Its based off the idea Jesus would come back after 2000 years but you would add his age to it.Which would put it at 2027 to 2031 depending on the age of Jesus.Right when Francis time will likely end how much longer can he go he 87.

Remember its private revelation and has no bearing on the faith nor is it publicly recognized or by the Church.So we will get to see if its true.I read that Pope Benedict thought it was and maybe Francis.Not long ago people where waiting for him to come out and pray for the people but instead he came out and asked Catholics to pray for him and his salvation with what he sees in front of him.Quite a surprising thing for a Pope to do.

So lets see it play out.It either true or false.But I do think the Church is near its end.

 

[Peter1]

One other thing I want to add to it.When Pope Francis was ordained he made a pilgrimage to pray to the Virgin Mary but what people don't know is he secretly visited another tomb that day and it was the Pope at the middle of the prophecy.

 

[Peter1]

All the Mary stuff has no bearing on the faith it just a argument of whether she was or not in a fallen state.It doesn't matter if Mary was a sinner or not its not about her its about Jesus.Its just a waste of time to argue about it.Catholics believe she was not in a fallen state and everyone else believes she was in a fallen state in the end does that matter?Not to me my focus is on Jesus I do believe the Catholic version..

There are other Christian sect that hold Mary at the same high esteem Luther did not throw it out he believed it he was a big Mary believer.Luther was only a step away from becoming a Pope of the Catholic Church before the split.

One last thing even Islam holds her is high esteem.
Quran 3:47 also supports the virginity of Mary, revealing that "no man has touched [her]".

 

[Peter1]

Thats all I have to say about the Catholic Church Mary and the Pope Most of the problems are going to occur now in the Christian Faith with the new modern generation who will see things differently and as a Christian it is our duty to hold the faith the battle is about to begin you need to fight it and stand up in the faith you know.

 

[Rhema]

Luther was only a step away from becoming a Pope of the Catholic Church before the split.

There is no substantive support for that claim. (It there is, please let us all know.)

 

[Peter1]

I looked and you are right he was only a ordained Priest in the Church I should of left it alone I didn't need to do that I will be more careful.Its exactly what I don't want to do and I did it.I don't want to use scandal or create it.Its what I said about repeating other peoples words its ignorance on my part I am learning to eliminate it the world is full of these things.

 

[Rhema]

the world is full of these things.

It's always wonderful to learn new things. Most of the Protestants I know have no clue that Martin Luther's 95 Theses were all about indulgences, and that "Theses" are stated points framed for scholarly debate.

Given that the purchase of indulgences were draining the German Nations of all their gold (in order to pay for the new St. Peter's Basilica) it seems a forgone conclusion that there would be no scholarly debate that would put the money in jeopardy.

Interesting that the term Protestant was created by the Catholic church to label the Electors (of the Emperor) who protested against the Emperor (of the Holy Roman Empire of the Germanic Nations) selecting the religion for the entire realm.

Rhema

 

[Bill]

PROBLEMS WITH THE CATHOLIC CHURCH (at large)

There are many spiritual truths we have received from the Catholic church. For us Protestants, they are without a doubt our close brothers and sisters in Christ. Unlike our very distant cousins the Jehovah Witnesses and even more distant, the Calvinists.

But, sadly, within the Catholic church I see two material faults and three small matters that seem to more often than not, lead to a material fault.

1. Restricted movement of the Holy Spirit - Material fault 1

On one hand:

A - Catholics recognise the seven gifts of wisdom, understanding, counsel, fortitude, knowledge, piety and fear of the Lord.
B - They tick the blocks of the five ministry gifts mentioned in Ephesians 4, of apostle, prophet, evangelist, pastor and teacher.
C - They operate in all but one of the gifts mentioned in 1 Cor 12:8-10 (Gift of tongues).
D - They do a decent job at containing those 'crazies' that run around and embarrass Christianity by boastfully performing Matt 7:22 type miracles (prophecy, healing, casting out demons, forcing people to speak in tongues).

On the other hand:

On the day of Pentecost mentioned in Acts 2, the Holy Spirit fell on and anointed all that were in attendance. Every single person was empowered and able to operate in the gifts of the Spirit. In the Catholic church we do not see this. It should be encouraged and taught. Waiting on the Holy Spirit in faith and when overwhelmed with His presence, unrestricted freedom and confidence to operate in the gifts at a church meeting and or where He leads you to.

While there is a lot of truth to a priest and or elder being more responsible to deal with someone confessions, exorcisms and prayers for healing. I feel, as it relates to all the gifts, it is overly micromanaged. The fire that Holy Spirit creates in someone to serve freely is mostly extinguished and replaced with a ''if you want to serve God at that level, take a vow of celibacy, study for a long period of time and become a priest or a nun''. I have the utmost respect for priests and nuns. But the Catholic church does need to do a lot more in inspiring, teaching and nurturing the fire within every Christian to operate freely in the gifts of the Spirit.

A church should give members an opportunity to openly share, speak in tongues, interpret tongues, prophecy, pray and teach. I would say that the Catholic church is currently at a 1/10 on this. Some charismatic churches overdo it and are at a 10/10 'anything goes' level. We see a lot of carnality at this level. The sweet spot would be 5-6/10 freedom with some oversight and containment by appointed elders. You can't have chaos at meetings as Paul explains in Cor 14:26-40.

It is true that the Catholic Church does frown somewhat on the gifts of the Spirit as you have mentioned. But I cannot test that my parents who are both hardcore Catholics, both received the baptism of the Holy Spirit in the 1970's.
Now I want to point out something about my parents. Both were deeply into helping other people all of their lives. They were both deeply into giving of themselves, and their hearts were filled with love.

I remember my mom saying that after they received the baptism of the Holy Spirit even though they had done all those other things prior to that it seemed to them that everything was even more enhanced, if I could put it that way.

My dad had always said prayers for people but now that he had received the baptism of the spirit one of his major gifts was healing and as he would put it, he would pray up a storm.
There is a multitude of people I know for a fact that have been healed through my dad's prayers for them. I remember three girls that all had multiple sclerosis, and my dad prayed for them and they were all healed. And I know that two of them had it really severely and the doctors couldn't explain how it was reversing.

My dad was really good with the type of Miracles that would take place with weather asking the Lord now Lord you know we're doing these things in your honor and your greatness could you please not let it rain, and guess what it didn't rain I mean it was nuts sometimes. We would be on our way to a children's home whereas kids had to do puppet shows for the children that were handicapped and my parents would do some kind of crazy skit they would make the kids laugh.
I remember one time it was pouring rain outside and my dad told the children "God really loves hearing prayers from children". Now I know that we were going to do something outside that day with those children and they were pretty disappointed because of all the rain. But after my dad talked to them about praying to the Lord and asking the Lord to stop it from raining, after lunch it stopped but it was so insane because where we were at the field that the kids were at there was absolutely no rain but across the street it was pouring and on the other side of us in the field beyond the area we were playing in it was pouring. And as soon as we walked back inside the building it began pouring outside the building too

 

[Foghorn]

PROBLEMS WITH THE CATHOLIC CHURCH (at large)

They ceased being a Christian church years ago when they denied and even cursed people who believe we are saved by faith alone. it is an apostate church

 

[Rhema]

They ceased being a Christian church years ago when they denied and even cursed people who believe we are saved by faith alone. it is an apostate church

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.​

(James 2:24 KJV)

Rhema
(btw, is there a translation you prefer?)

And ... "years ago"? They've preached the same Soteriology for nearly 18 centuries.

 

[Foghorn]

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.​

(James 2:24 KJV)

Rhema
(btw, is there a translation you prefer?)

And ... "years ago"? They've preached the same Soteriology for nearly 18 centuries.

Any translation works for me.

 

[KingJ]

They ceased being a Christian church years ago when they denied and even cursed people who believe we are saved by faith alone. it is an apostate church

Can you please elaborate. I don't agree.

 

[Curtis]

It is "possible" for a man to have "works" without "faith", but it is "impossible" for a man to have "faith" without works.

Faith without works is dead.

 

[Bill]

Does Anyone understand what the term "Works" stands for???

It does not mean to work for a goal, like your retirement.

What it does mean is Jesus working in you.

An example:

Matthew 25
34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.

 

[Rhema]

What it does mean is Jesus working in you.

MY, Bill. You're sounding very Protestant.


I would gather the question is whether such works have merit towards salvation.

Rhema

 

[Bill]

MY, Bill. You're sounding very Protestant.


I would gather the question is whether such works have merit towards salvation.

Rhema

Is love an action, or is it something we put under a basket.

Mark 4:21
Is a lamp brought in to be put under a basket.

The Light of Christ within you is to be set out for all to see.

Matthew 5:15
Insted they put it on its stand, and it give light to all in the house.

What then is the light of Christ?

1 John 4:8
States that God is love, and light is part of God's essence.

The love of God in us can not be quenched, and it is in our willingness to follow the will of the Holy Spirit that we are judged by.

Only you can quench the fire of God within you.
Unbelief
Doubt
Hate
All these things we can not let go of becomes a sickness in our souls.

Only by giving of your whole self to God, surrendering to the will of God, can we find ourselves completely fulfilled by God

 

[Twistie]

There's a problem in every man made named church...

first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

Except the Lord build the house, they labour in vain that build it: except the Lord keep the city, the watchman waketh but in vain.

For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?

(⁠@⁠_⁠@⁠)

 

[Rhema]

Only by giving of your whole self to God, surrendering to the will of God, can we find ourselves completely fulfilled by God

Oh don't get me wrong, I wasn't disagreeing with you. I find many Protestant churches, though, so hung up on promoting "non-works" Salvation that they forget works completely.

Rhema