Purgatory

[natty threads]

OF COURSE Jesus paid the penalty for our sins.

Were those not His dying words, "It is paid"?

So respect Him by giving credence to all of His scripture and entertaining at least the possibility of all that is proposed by the Apostles.

DOH!

Jesus died so that we may be forgiven.
Please convince me that that means we will not suffer.
Where in Scripture does it say that we will not suffer?

Bless up!

 

[natty threads]

IOW, yes, "The debt is paid."But who among us does not continue to sin?
If the debt is continually to be paid must we not continually be increasing in obedience to God's Law?

How many of us are?
On any level?

Do you REALLY love your enemies?
Would REALLY give your brother your second shirt?
What about your enemy?

It will do the world good if each of us does a Very Nice Thing for someone we seriously object to on some level. If we do something nice in spite of ourselves, the world will be much improved.

Pick an enemy and make him or her a friend.

Bless up!
God love us and have mercy on us all.

 

[natty threads]

Could you explain how Yeshua paid an infinite price for our sins?
Is He not also redeeming Creation which also groans under the weight of our sins?

If there is no "purgatory" why address the "good thief" that he will be in Paradise that day?
If there were no "purgatory" would that not be a given?

I am by no means arguing that the living could mitigate for or should concern themselves with the dead. I am arguing that scripture seems to indicate that there is some awareness between death and judgement, as per the scriptures I have already quoted, as well as any others.

 

[bruren777]

Good statement!

John, you said it well bro. You quoted Scripture, Scripture is the infallible Word of God. Anyone trying to dispute the Bible is a fool!

 

[JWayne]

So JWayne, you believe that God will always give something for absolute depravity- which is pretty much all we offer- and will not require a purification?

So, natty, you love putting words in to another's mouth, and attempting saying the bible says something it doesn't. Typical.

I believe God and His Word, plain and simple, without adding to or subtracting from it. God's Word stands alone, it does not need our help.

And a year ago I never would have argued

So what has programed you to believe other than what God's Word tells us. What is filling you with dis-truth, and false teachings?

Please convince me.

I was happier when I thus believed.

I'm sorry but I do not possess the credentials needed for de-programming. And I you were truly so happy, you have the choice to again be happy, it's up to you!



The notion of purgatory was created because it was felt that some people on this planet were neither good, nor bad. God had to give them another chance through the purification ritual of the purgatory. However, that notion is not Biblical at all.

First of all, nowhere is there any mention of a place like purgatory in God's Word.

This whole notion is based on salvation by work and not on salvation by faith in the sacrifice that Jesus did for us. That notion that we can earn heaven by works is unbiblical. The apostle Paul clearly indicated that in Eph 2:8-9 "It is by grace you have been saved, through faith-and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God- not by works, so that no one can boast." NIV

In fact, to depend on our works to gain salvation is a direct rejection of the offer Jesus gave us through His sacrifice. It is like saying to Jesus: "Your offer is not good enough. I can do better than you. I will earn my own salvation because your offer is not enough."

The Bible is clear that we are only saved by accepting Jesus' sacrifice. Salvation was complete when Jesus died on the cross and is confirmed by His last words on the cross: John 19:30 "Jesus said, "It is finished." With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit." NIV

This is confirmed throughout the Bible, e.g. 1 Peter 3:18: "For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God." NIV; Heb 10:10 "And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all." NIV

According to the Bible, there are only two options available to us when we die: heaven or hell.

 

[JWayne]

John, you said it well bro. You quoted Scripture, Scripture is the infallible Word of God. Anyone trying to dispute the Bible is a fool!

AMEN! And it is so sad that it has to be that way.