Question, do believe a person get saved when they reply to alter call???

[Dave M]

Good verse. Now what makes you think someone called to the front at an altar call cannot tick that and just like the theif next to Jesus on the cross, qualify for eternal bliss?

Please understand I am not making a blanket statement, I am not saying it CANNOT happen. I am saying it may or may not happen. I am saying that many have a false hope in that alter call, as grace to sin. And do not fully believe in there heart but are looking for fire proof insurance card. They do not want to change,, they just do not want to go to hell,,, this is what my concern is.

On the other side I know of people who were changed at that alter called, they gave up sin, that had strong holds over them most of there adult life. It is different for everyone. I never went to a alter call, I was changed gradually growing in Christ.

The point is with out a changed life, I am very worried people misunderstand the alter-call. I think of the alter call more like ,water baptism, it saves no one,,, it is a public profession to Christ, and has its place in every believers life,,, but its NOT PROOF of salvation, it is evidence that is pilled up with other evidence, so that a person can examine there life to make sure they know God is working on them,, and they have a new spirit and a new heart.

Yes people can have a true change of heart on there death bed and receive salvation, that is how awesome God's grace and forgiveness is, but that person will not have much rewards, like the missionary who forsake his life and carried his cross every day, yet both have salvation. And if someone is actually planning on that they most likely will not have the correct heart ever. We have to be broken before God, we have to know we are a sinner and repent.

Jesus gave us a clear message to preach and that is to repent for that is bearing fruit. Without repentance there is no salvation ! Repentance comes with major conviction as well.

• Matthew 4:17: "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand"
• Luke 5:32: "I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance"
• Luke 13:5: "Unless you repent, you will all likewise perish"
• Matthew 3:2: "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand"
• Matthew 3:8: "Bear fruit in keeping with repentance"

“Thus it is written, that the Christ should suffer and on the third day rise from the dead, and that repentance and forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem” (Luke 24:46

​

John 15:2​

Every branch in me that does not bear fruit he takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes, that it may bear more fruit.

Matthew 13
Other seeds fell on good soil and produced grain, some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

 

[B-A-C]

• Matthew 4:17: "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand"
• Luke 5:32: "I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance"

I think we can be pretty sure the thief on the cross didn't commit many sins in the next few hours he was alive.

 

[B-A-C]

I think we can be pretty sure the thief on the cross didn't commit many sins in the next few hours he was alive.

Which brings up another point. Is "not sinning" even a work? Why do people think it is?

 

[Dylan569]

Wondering if you think all a person has to do is open his mouth claim that they believe say they have, and are now saved. ???

NO matter how they live the rest of there lives??

Thanks for the replies

As with many topics, how you define the words is critical to a true understanding. The scriptures clearly teach that justification is instantaneous, progressive sanctification is a continuing process.

"The message of the cross is sheer folly to those on the way to destruction, but to us, who are on the way to salvation, it is the power of God." (1Cor 1:18 REB) * We are progressively sanctified on our way to COMPLETE salvation in Christ

"And so, since we have now been justified by Christ’s sacrificial death, we shall all the more certainly be saved through him from final retribution." (Rom 5:9 REB) * We have been already justified by Christ's death this known through faith

compared with

"May God himself, the God of peace, make you holy through and through, and keep you sound in spirit, soul, and body, free of any fault when our Lord Jesus Christ comes. He who calls you keeps faith; he will do it." (1Thess 5:23-24 REB)

Keep in mind, salvation is ALL of grace!

"For it is by grace you are saved through faith; it is not your own doing. It is God’s gift, not a reward for work done. There is nothing for anyone to boast of; we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus for the life of good deeds which God designed for us."(Eph 2:8-10 REB)

"By God’s act you are in Christ Jesus; God has made him our wisdom, and in him we have our righteousness, our holiness, our liberation. Therefore, in the words of scripture, ‘If anyone must boast, let him boast of the Lord.’" (1Cor 1:30-31 REB)

 

[KingJ]

I think we can be pretty sure the thief on the cross didn't commit many sins in the next few hours he was alive.

Which brings up another point. Is "not sinning" even a work? Why do people think it is?

I am surprised to hear OSAS type reasoning from a non-OSAS believer.

Of course not sinning is a work. It takes effort to avoid sinning.

The issue is whether or not works can save you. If you believe altar call salvation is not possible than you do believe works are needed.

 

[KingJ]

Please understand I am not making a blanket statement, I am not saying it CANNOT happen. I am saying it may or may not happen. I am saying that many have a false hope in that alter call, as grace to sin. And do not fully believe in there heart but are looking for fire proof insurance card. They do not want to change,, they just do not want to go to hell,,, this is what my concern is.

On the other side I know of people who were changed at that alter called, they gave up sin, that had strong holds over them most of there adult life. It is different for everyone. I never went to a alter call, I was changed gradually growing in Christ.

The point is with out a changed life, I am very worried people misunderstand the alter-call. I think of the alter call more like ,water baptism, it saves no one,,, it is a public profession to Christ, and has its place in every believers life,,, but its NOT PROOF of salvation, it is evidence that is pilled up with other evidence, so that a person can examine there life to make sure they know God is working on them,, and they have a new spirit and a new heart.

Yes people can have a true change of heart on there death bed and receive salvation, that is how awesome God's grace and forgiveness is, but that person will not have much rewards, like the missionary who forsake his life and carried his cross every day, yet both have salvation. And if someone is actually planning on that they most likely will not have the correct heart ever. We have to be broken before God, we have to know we are a sinner and repent.

Jesus gave us a clear message to preach and that is to repent for that is bearing fruit. Without repentance there is no salvation ! Repentance comes with major conviction as well.

• Matthew 4:17: "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand"
• Luke 5:32: "I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance"
• Luke 13:5: "Unless you repent, you will all likewise perish"
• Matthew 3:2: "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand"
• Matthew 3:8: "Bear fruit in keeping with repentance"

“Thus it is written, that the Christ should suffer and on the third day rise from the dead, and that repentance and forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem” (Luke 24:46

​

John 15:2​

Every branch in me that does not bear fruit he takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes, that it may bear more fruit.

Matthew 13
Other seeds fell on good soil and produced grain, some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

You are not answering my post. I quoted lines from you that spoke to a works-based salvation.

In this post you are mentioning true salvation showing fruits. I agree.

 

[KingJ]

As with many topics, how you define the words is critical to a true understanding. The scriptures clearly teach that justification is instantaneous, progressive sanctification is a continuing process.

"The message of the cross is sheer folly to those on the way to destruction, but to us, who are on the way to salvation, it is the power of God." (1Cor 1:18 REB) * We are progressively sanctified on our way to COMPLETE salvation in Christ

"And so, since we have now been justified by Christ’s sacrificial death, we shall all the more certainly be saved through him from final retribution." (Rom 5:9 REB) * We have been already justified by Christ's death this known through faith

compared with

"May God himself, the God of peace, make you holy through and through, and keep you sound in spirit, soul, and body, free of any fault when our Lord Jesus Christ comes. He who calls you keeps faith; he will do it." (1Thess 5:23-24 REB)

Keep in mind, salvation is ALL of grace!

"For it is by grace you are saved through faith; it is not your own doing. It is God’s gift, not a reward for work done. There is nothing for anyone to boast of; we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus for the life of good deeds which God designed for us."(Eph 2:8-10 REB)

"By God’s act you are in Christ Jesus; God has made him our wisdom, and in him we have our righteousness, our holiness, our liberation. Therefore, in the words of scripture, ‘If anyone must boast, let him boast of the Lord.’" (1Cor 1:30-31 REB)

This is all true. Justice can be instantaneous as God properly vets a person. He is not a fool that grafts a demon into heaven and or casts a saint out.

I am surprised you believe this though. I would expect a 5-point Calvinist to not believe in justice of any sort whatsoever. You literally teach that God cherry picks people for heaven from among a pool of sinners irrespective of anything they believe, say or do. How is that justice?

 

[Dave M]

Dropping altar call salvation will result in teaching a works based salvation. This is much worse.

Not sure what you mean, how this is a work base salvation, ?? if your saying walking up to the alter is a work based salvation I would disagree

 

[Twistie]

Wondering if you think all a person has to do is open his mouth claim that they believe say they have, and are now saved. ???

NO matter how they live the rest of there lives??

Thanks for the replies

But now thus saith the Lord that created thee, O Jacob, and he that formed thee, O Israel, Fear not: for I have redeemed thee, I have called thee by thy name; thou art mine

Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy

(⁠＾⁠∇⁠＾⁠)⁠ﾉ⁠♪

 

[Dylan569]

But now thus saith the Lord that created thee, O Jacob, and he that formed thee, O Israel, Fear not: for I have redeemed thee, I have called thee by thy name; thou art mine

Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy

(⁠＾⁠∇⁠＾⁠)⁠ﾉ⁠♪

Twistie, I'm curious and probably others have asked in the past, but why do you not include the reference with the scriptures you quote?

 

[KingJ]

Not sure what you mean, how this is a work base salvation, ?? if your saying walking up to the alter is a work based salvation I would disagree

Dave, long day?

I stated'' Dropping altar call salvation will result in teaching a work-based salvation. This is much worse.''. How do you interpret that to suggest ''If your saying walking up to the alter is a work-based salvation I would disagree''.

However, on the specific action of walking up to the altar. I would say that action is a work. Instantaneous salvation = no works required, except for the work of walking to the altar AKA opening the door to Jesus AKA true repentance of sin.

Waiting for your response to my post # 26. You seem to be posting OSAS and non-OSAS posts.