Should Christians own guns?

[hopefulson]

Guns are like any tool.
Mine sits in a hidden place most of the time and has yet to get up by itself and hurt/kill someone.
Handguns are most effective at about 50ft.
Rifles are for longer distances and ultimately you want to be farther away from a hostile target.
IDK who all is in your family or friends but should you find yourself in one, being defenseless means they will be targets of evil people.
At my last church the woman who was in charge of the good bank I volunteered at, was getting fuel. Some guy came around to her car and her instincts paid off. She pulled but didn't fire and instead of going to a car like he was asking for help he ran away from the gas station.
I saw another video where 3 black guys jumped a white guy filling his tank. They had knives and he was unarmed. They got his car with a full tank.
Do you, but as you see this world, better to make friends with people who carry.

There are certainly consequences for pacifism. Yet he who will save his life will lose it. Do not resist the evil person was not an admonition for the sake of the evil person but rather for the sake of the soul of the offended person. The directive makes no worldly sense but it is not meant to chart a worldly course but a spiritual one. The brother is right different people are convicted by different things however RED LETTERS overrule ALL. For anyone ever to turn their back on them is a consequential act. It will always be true that God inhabits the prayers of His people but not if through willfulness they refuse to let Him in. The meek shall inherit the earth and the least shall be greatest and the greatest shall be least.

 

[MedicBravo]

There are certainly consequences for pacifism. Yet he who will save his life will lose it. Do not resist the evil person was not an admonition for the sake of the evil person but rather for the sake of the soul of the offended person. The directive makes no worldly sense but it is not meant to chart a worldly course but a spiritual one. The brother is right different people are convicted by different things however RED LETTERS overrule ALL. For anyone ever to turn their back on them is a consequential act. It will always be true that God inhabits the prayers of His people but not if through willfulness they refuse to let Him in. The meek shall inherit the earth and the least shall be greatest and the greatest shall be least.

Of course.
"Do not resist an evil person." - Christians have every right to defend themselves. Look at Herod. Any leader with half a brain back then would know to kill all Christians if we are "supposed" to not act at all against evil or any threat.
God also used us throughout history man times to reduce and eliminate evil.
Just b/c a Christian is threatened doesn't mean he/she is b/c of their faith. Most of the time they what what someone has. Money. Precious metals and jewelry. That awesome flatscreen you got at a really good deal on Prime Day last year.
You've no sure way to know if your family is saved or anyone else around you. Optimally we could use non-violent methods but realistically you won't. I was an Army Veteran. As a Medic my job isn't to hurt people but all soldiers carry weapons except for the Army Chaplain. On deployments I rarely fired my weapon b/c again, it's not my purpose.
When you are in a foreign country as we were and part of your job is handing out water, food, clothing, and medicines and some of their own have no problems hurting their own people just to get to you, you know they are seriously messed up. In protected them that is doing far more good than allowing those few to continue to do evil.
I have yet to see prayers turn bullets into flowers and guns into food and water. In fact, in the face of evil God will use us. There are and have been many Christian warriors.
God gave his angels weapons and armor. Pretty sure demons don't respond to "hugs and feelings".

 

[Christ4Ever]

Why should you be concerned over the person who made those choices vs the victims?
That' makes no sense.
If no one or few side with the victims the body count increases. As all have free will they made that choice to use a tool the wrong way. Most developed countries have laws against, IDK, attempted murder.
It is only the good guy/gal with a gun that saves those without it.
I've seen attempts of child kidnapping in daylight in front of people. They don't care. Thankfully a woman pulled her own handgun and eliminated the threat.

Dear MedicBravo,
I don't think she's taking sides but making a point that the perpetrator once killed has pretty much a one-way ticket to hell, and as a Christian one should not be unaffected by being the one who punched their ticket. Only God knows if that person would have come to the Lord as others have. I could be wrong, but I believe that's probably her sentiments.

I'm sure as a military man yourself, you're not unaffected by taking away what one is or will ever be in this life of a person you had to kill in the performance of your duties. Yes, it was their decision to make, but it doesn't take away from the compassion/sense of loss that one has for that person and the future that will go unfulfilled. Which one can see as a positive, "they'll never do it again" or a negative "they could have turned their life around".

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[MedicBravo]

Dear MedicBravo,
I don't think she's taking sides but making a point that the perpetrator once killed has pretty much a one-way ticket to hell, and as a Christian one should not be unaffected by being the one who punched their ticket. Only God knows if that person would have come to the Lord as others have. I could be wrong, but I believe that's probably her sentiments.

I'm sure as a military man yourself, you're not unaffected by taking away what one is or will ever be in this life of a person you had to kill in the performance of your duties. Yes, it was their decision to make, but it doesn't take away from the compassion/sense of loss that one has for that person and the future that will go unfulfilled. Which one can see as a positive, "they'll never do it again" or a negative "they could have turned their life around".

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

No one is responsible for someone else's actions unless they are pushing them to do wrong.
Stopping a person with a firearm is preventing more evil than doing nothing. That person has chosen to do wrong. Their life before is irrelevant in they can turn from it but chose not to.
I haven't killed anyone. I have more compassion for the victims when there's no one to stop said people.
Their decision has/had consequences and if it turns out bad for them, then it's all on them.
The positive is that more people are saved in many ways and evil was stopped by good.
Let me ask. You know a lot of people are going to Hell and there's nothing you can do about it.
Which is a better use of time? Helping those who are victims or the one person who'll most likely continue to make bad choices per this issue and end up either dead or in prison?
The ratio of former inmates who change vs those who do not is few.

 

[Christ4Ever]

Stopping a person with a firearm is preventing more evil than doing nothing. That person has chosen to do wrong. Their life before is irrelevant in they can turn from it but chose not to.

Not necessarily. There have been enough cases where the person trying to stop per say the evil being perpetrated has inflicted even greater harm on the Society around them by taking the actions, they believed were righteous. On the perpetrators side, it is true that they have made the choice to do wrong and are responsible for their own actions but taking their life doesn't mean that one did not take a life that could have been fruitful in the "future". I quotation marked future, because from what you wrote above you think I made some relevance to their past. I don't, because the ends doesn't justify the means. At least in this instance

I haven't killed anyone. I have more compassion for the victims when there's no one to stop said people.
Their decision has/had consequences and if it turns out bad for them, then it's all on them.
The positive is that more people are saved in many ways and evil was stopped by good.

Glad to hear it, and I'm with you on that latter part. Still, as a believer and knowing the consequences that maybe the perpetrator hasn't thought through and their life is lost. I can't help but feel sorrow for them. Even though it doesn't change a thing. I also feel for the person who took said action, that others would not, in order to stop said "evil". Never easy, and I won't say that I won't do the same if in their position. Family does come first brother.

Let me ask. You know a lot of people are going to Hell and there's nothing you can do about it.
Which is a better use of time? Helping those who are victims or the one person who'll most likely continue to make bad choices per this issue and end up either dead or in prison?
The ratio of former inmates who change vs those who do not is few.

Yep, in fact there is pretty much very little one can do, but we do what we can. We let them know the Gospel, and when possible, I like how Charles Spurgeon said though difficult to do "If sinners be damned, at least let them leap to Hell over our dead bodies. And if they perish, let them perish with our arms wrapped about their knees, imploring them to stay. If Hell must be filled, let it be filled in the teeth of our exertions, and let not one go unwarned and unprayed for."
I worked in Corrections after the military and saw where the recidivism rate always seemed to be greater even as the programs to help them increased. It was almost like they preferred being locked up to being on the outside/free.

Still, we don't give up hope, and trying to change what seems to be like the salmon swimming upstream while heading home much of the time.
I take comfort in an Eternity that awaits us, and hopefully some of those who we see as lost, whom the Holy Spirit has moved to receive such a great gift through our Lord Jesus Christ and one day we can call them Brother or Sister!

Appreciate your words.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

​

 

[MedicBravo]

Not necessarily. There have been enough cases where the person trying to stop per say the evil being perpetrated has inflicted even greater harm on the Society around them by taking the actions, they believed were righteous. On the perpetrators side, it is true that they have made the choice to do wrong and are responsible for their own actions but taking their life doesn't mean that one did not take a life that could have been fruitful in the "future". I quotation marked future, because from what you wrote above you think I made some relevance to their past. I don't, because the ends doesn't justify the means. At least in this instance


Glad to hear it, and I'm with you on that latter part. Still, as a believer and knowing the consequences that maybe the perpetrator hasn't thought through and their life is lost. I can't help but feel sorrow for them. Even though it doesn't change a thing. I also feel for the person who took said action, that others would not, in order to stop said "evil". Never easy, and I won't say that I won't do the same if in their position. Family does come first brother.


Yep, in fact there is pretty much very little one can do, but we do what we can. We let them know the Gospel, and when possible, I like how Charles Spurgeon said though difficult to do "If sinners be damned, at least let them leap to Hell over our dead bodies. And if they perish, let them perish with our arms wrapped about their knees, imploring them to stay. If Hell must be filled, let it be filled in the teeth of our exertions, and let not one go unwarned and unprayed for."
I worked in Corrections after the military and saw where the recidivism rate always seemed to be greater even as the programs to help them increased. It was almost like they preferred being locked up to being on the outside/free.

Still, we don't give up hope, and trying to change what seems to be like the salmon swimming upstream while heading home much of the time.
I take comfort in an Eternity that awaits us, and hopefully some of those who we see as lost, whom the Holy Spirit has moved to receive such a great gift through our Lord Jesus Christ and one day we can call them Brother or Sister!

Appreciate your words.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

​

In your first, it seems this makes all police and military out to be bad. I can assure you without, then the evil and sin in the world be be much worse.
The ends Do justify the means. Every Christian who's left their sinful life behind in all of history is evidence. Every former felon who has made a complete 180 is more evidence. Every LGB and T+ who turned from it. There are many who do have a sudden Light Bulb moment and break out of the "Bad life always equals bad decisions" mentality.
I still get you are on the evildoor's side more than the victims. Stopping such people is key and yes...Christians are commanded to protect self and others especially those who cannot.
John 15:13 "Great love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends."
Psalm 82:3-4 "Give justice to the weak and the fatherless; maintain the right of the afflicted and the destitute. Rescue the weak and the needy; deliver them from the hand of the wicked."
There are plenty to add but I'll continue.
There are numerous examples of people stopping an evil person and that results in the dead of them and the evildoor. 2 people lost vs who knows how many.
Which is worse? The loss of one life and person or multiple people? Is it better to feed one person by taking away from others? No.
In your next, you speak as if in most instances where the threat is active that holding aloft the Bible like He-Man and quoting verses is going to stop the person. I have yet to see or hear of it as that would make news everywhere.
We could go on all day about this. I'll side with the victims any day. The odds of such a person changing last second are almost nil.

 

[Christ4Ever]

In your first, it seems this makes all police and military out to be bad. I can assure you without, then the evil and sin in the world be be much worse.
The ends Do justify the means. Every Christian who's left their sinful life behind in all of history is evidence. Every former felon who has made a complete 180 is more evidence. Every LGB and T+ who turned from it. There are many who do have a sudden Light Bulb moment and break out of the "Bad life always equals bad decisions" mentality.
I still get you are on the evildoor's side more than the victims. Stopping such people is key and yes...Christians are commanded to protect self and others especially those who cannot.
John 15:13 "Great love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends."
Psalm 82:3-4 "Give justice to the weak and the fatherless; maintain the right of the afflicted and the destitute. Rescue the weak and the needy; deliver them from the hand of the wicked."
There are plenty to add but I'll continue.
There are numerous examples of people stopping an evil person and that results in the dead of them and the evildoor. 2 people lost vs who knows how many.
Which is worse? The loss of one life and person or multiple people? Is it better to feed one person by taking away from others? No.
In your next, you speak as if in most instances where the threat is active that holding aloft the Bible like He-Man and quoting verses is going to stop the person. I have yet to see or hear of it as that would make news everywhere.
We could go on all day about this. I'll side with the victims any day. The odds of such a person changing last second are almost nil.

Not at all, but I have an honest perspective towards both. The PD/Military are only as good as the Laws they enforce, and wars they are pitted to do battle in. I like what Winston Churchill said as it pertains to war: "Wars don't determine who is right. Only who is left."

I also don't forget where I come from brother.

For we ourselves were also once foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving various lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful and hating one another. But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life. Titus 3:3-7 NKJV

My one suggestion is to reread the story of Saul/Paul. He was what we as Believers then and now would have considered evil in his persecution etc. and then became a veritable warrior of Christ. Is this the case for everyone? Of course not. I mean look at Judas Iscariot!

So, if I'm packing, and I see someone being attacked, then I'd probably put a bullet in them. Because in truth when such instances happen, one doesn't have the time to think about the what ifs. One just wants to stop what is happening from continuing, and hope we are making the correct decision.

I think we agree more then you realize.

You however are right in that we could probably go back and forth all day long. However, I won't side with the victim or perpetrator. Instead, I'll side with God if He'll let me know which side, He wants me to be on every time.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

P.S. By the way. If God told me to hold the Bible in the air instead of pulling a gun. I pray that I have the strength to hold that Bible higher than I've ever held anything in my life!!!

 

[Jarhead0311]

It won't change anything. Bullets go right through demons and that is who we are really fighting. A man gets possessed and comes in your home and seeks to hurt you- you shoot the man but the demon leaves and finds someone else and you have just basically shot an innocent man.

 

[Mister]

I own a couple shotguns collecting ferric oxide and a stainless steel pistol corrosion free. The rust laden shotguns would only be used for game. I've pondered what I would do with the shiny one in the event of a robbery. I'd probably just question them if I could help them with something. If someone was going to take my life I'd negotiate that he take one of my gospel tracts! Now I'm thinking I need to "pack" my tracts and not my "nine".

 

[Jarhead0311]

Not one human other than Jesus is innocent not one.

 

[Christ4Ever]

I own a couple shotguns collecting ferric oxide and a stainless steel pistol corrosion free. The rust laden shotguns would only be used for game. I've pondered what I would do with the shiny one in the event of a robbery. I'd probably just question them if I could help them with something. If someone was going to take my life I'd negotiate that he take one of my gospel tracts! Now I'm thinking I need to "pack" my tracts and not my "nine".

Dear Mister,
My son pretty much said the same thing!
He said I could read from the Bible to them while waiting for PD to show up.
I told him, if PD took too long, they just might stand up and tell me to shoot them already and be done with it because they just couldn't take hearing anymore of the Word!

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[hopefulson]

Dear Mister,
My son pretty much said the same thing!
He said I could read from the Bible to them while waiting for PD to show up.
I told him, if PD took too long, they just might stand up and tell me to shoot them already and be done with it because they just couldn't take hearing anymore of the Word!

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

Self defense is hard to argue with but the defense of those we love and those principals required for the life and freedom of all are even harder. But what do we say to and of someone who would under no circumstances EVER harm another. Are they less then us or greater? Personally I own many guns but I see them as instruments of dirty decision. They are not instruments of Love, Mercy, or Grace and all prayers cease with their use. I look at the fate of the Jews at the hands of the Nazis, I understand the point but the use of the gun is a moral decision irrevocable with no way to turn back. The bullet will never return to the barrel. be sure the aspirations of your heart are settled with where the outcome will lead you because from there there is no return.

 

[Jarhead0311]

Self defense is hard to argue with but the defense of those we love and those principals required for the life and freedom of all are even harder. But what do we say to and of someone who would under no circumstances EVER harm another. Are they less then us or greater? Personally I own many guns but I see them as instruments of dirty decision. They are not instruments of Love, Mercy, or Grace and all prayers cease with their use. I look at the fate of the Jews at the hands of the Nazis, I understand the point but the use of the gun is a moral decision irrevocable with no way to turn back. The bullet will never return to the barrel. be sure the aspirations of your heart are settled with where the outcome will lead you because from there there is no return.

If you were held captive and about to be killed and a man with a gun freed you ,by killing the one about to kill you, wouldn’t the one who freed you be committing an act of love ? Guns aren’t good nor evil people are.

 

[Christ4Ever]

Self defense is hard to argue with but the defense of those we love and those principals required for the life and freedom of all are even harder. But what do we say to and of someone who would under no circumstances EVER harm another. Are they less then us or greater? Personally I own many guns but I see them as instruments of dirty decision. They are not instruments of Love, Mercy, or Grace and all prayers cease with their use. I look at the fate of the Jews at the hands of the Nazis, I understand the point but the use of the gun is a moral decision irrevocable with no way to turn back. The bullet will never return to the barrel. be sure the aspirations of your heart are settled with where the outcome will lead you because from there there is no return.

Dear hopefulson,
Mostly agree with your assessment, and totally agree with guns/weapons not being instruments of Love, Mercy, or Grace, but I'm sure many can say that they can be used to allow them to flourish. Yes, one can look at the fate of the Jews and others as well at the hand of the Nazis. Yet one must also look at the side that sacrificed all to defeat that evil. Was it worth the sacrifice, or better to capitulate and accept the outcome?

I can make no decision for another. It's each person to make. The only ones I have issue with are those who would require it to be one way or the other at the detriment or making the other less for their choices. I cannot walk in their shoes and know the anguish of what they must feel at what they have done. Whether it is to take another's life, or to allow the lives of loved ones to be taken. My prayers are such that if the choice were mine to make, then no man would have to make it, and so the longing for my Lord and Savior's return. Though much of both will be experienced before then, to see an end to it I can say in all honesty say I long for that day when it will be ended!

There are many nuances to this discussion, and many the decision that once done cannot be undone. I would suggest one pray that whichever choice one actually makes, that God's Mercy and Grace will in time follow the making of it.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, and I hope I answered the question you posed to me.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[MedicBravo]

Not at all, but I have an honest perspective towards both. The PD/Military are only as good as the Laws they enforce, and wars they are pitted to do battle in. I like what Winston Churchill said as it pertains to war: "Wars don't determine who is right. Only who is left."

I also don't forget where I come from brother.

For we ourselves were also once foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving various lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful and hating one another. But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life. Titus 3:3-7 NKJV

My one suggestion is to reread the story of Saul/Paul. He was what we as Believers then and now would have considered evil in his persecution etc. and then became a veritable warrior of Christ. Is this the case for everyone? Of course not. I mean look at Judas Iscariot!

So, if I'm packing, and I see someone being attacked, then I'd probably put a bullet in them. Because in truth when such instances happen, one doesn't have the time to think about the what ifs. One just wants to stop what is happening from continuing, and hope we are making the correct decision.

I think we agree more then you realize.

You however are right in that we could probably go back and forth all day long. However, I won't side with the victim or perpetrator. Instead, I'll side with God if He'll let me know which side, He wants me to be on every time.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

P.S. By the way. If God told me to hold the Bible in the air instead of pulling a gun. I pray that I have the strength to hold that Bible higher than I've ever held anything in my life!!!

A minority doesn't define a majority.
There have been bad cops and bad military for so long. One good action by a bad/evil person doesn't redeem them for a lifetime of bad choices.
Gun ownership is a heavy responsibility. My dad taught me a lot growing up, I learned more on my own, and when more when I got my CCP.
I'm thankful I've never had to pull on someone. I would have a harder time living with the victims' death than the evil if I had done nothing. Firearms are the great equalizer.
I've seen video of a 300lb black man high on a couple of drugs and tazers and pepper spray did nothing but to make him more dangerous.
Prepare for the worse hope for the best.
If someone doesn't like and want one fine but worse scenario you better make good friends with people who have them.

 

[hopefulson]

If you were held captive and about to be killed and a man with a gun freed you ,by killing the one about to kill you, wouldn’t the one who freed you be committing an act of love ? Guns aren’t good nor evil people are.

That is true brother but death is death and it's permanent and it puts an end to all relevant reflection it ends any further considerations. There is a heavy weight to this neutral tool.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Hello Mike.

I would never own a gun or use any weapon, we were told to turn the other cheek. Not pull the trigger!

Or draw a sword that you were told to have???
Luke 22:36 "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."

 

[MedicBravo]

That is true brother but death is death and it's permanent and it puts an end to all relevant reflection it ends any further considerations. There is a heavy weight to this neutral tool.

What about death for the victims who might not be believers?
No one is a mind reader and knows what they've done.
Just b/c they were attacked and lived or not doesn't make them automatically innocent or saved.

 

[Christ4Ever]

A minority doesn't define a majority.
There have been bad cops and bad military for so long. One good action by a bad/evil person doesn't redeem them for a lifetime of bad choices.
Gun ownership is a heavy responsibility. My dad taught me a lot growing up, I learned more on my own, and when more when I got my CCP.
I'm thankful I've never had to pull on someone. I would have a harder time living with the victims' death than the evil if I had done nothing. Firearms are the great equalizer.
I've seen video of a 300lb black man high on a couple of drugs and tazers and pepper spray did nothing but to make him more dangerous.
Prepare for the worse hope for the best.
If someone doesn't like and want one fine but worse scenario you better make good friends with people who have them.

Dear MedicBravo,
Never said anything about those performing those duties but I won't disagree with what you have said concerning them. My point was irrespective of the quality/integrity of the policing/military if the laws/wars are without merit for the majority or for us as believers, we have a problem.

I do believe that is part of the reason in the good old US of A our founding fathers scribed the second amendment. They understood better than we do now what it means to have to fight against an oppressive government, and what the people need in order to do so. Then again armament was for the most part a necessary part of their everyday living. These were also Godly men that we're talking about who lived as their faith and belief dictated to them. We could use more of them in our halls of power today!

Anyway, like I said before, if God told me to go holding a Bible high in the air and run towards that 300lb black/brown/yellow/white what have you man or woman even if they are on drugs what have you. I'm going to be I pray a good servant unto the Lord and do what He says.

What then shall we say to these things? If God [is] for us, who [can be] against us? Romans 8:31 NKJV

It also doesn't mean that you'll survive the encounter, but you will have served a greater purpose!

It reminds me of a story I read in a book called Jesus Freaks, which is about martyrs. It kind of goes like this. A preacher who had translated the Bible into North Korean, upon completion felt compelled to the mission fields there. He took a boat there, but before they landed the boat was attacked by pirates, and everyone on board was killed, and the boat sunk. A man in North Korea who was on the shore came across this book and not having much use for it. Used it to paper the walls of his hut. People used to come from miles around to read this man's walls and what was written thereon.

So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth; It shall not return to Me void, But it shall accomplish what I please, And it shall prosper [in the thing] for which I sent it. Isaiah 55:11 NKJV

That is why, I won't cut down either person, on this discussion unless they denigrate the other side. Who knows if God has called you to protect the very people who are unwilling to bare arms themselves? Been known to happen! \o/

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[Jarhead0311]

That is true brother but death is death and it's permanent and it puts an end to all relevant reflection it ends any further considerations. There is a heavy weight to this neutral tool.

Agreed I spent close to 13 months in Vietnam 69-70. If an armed intruder broke into my home and threatened my wife or grandkids I would pray they are ready to step into eternity. Bad choices have consequences.