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Slaves to Sin?

Being tempted is not a sin. Even Jesus was tempted, but He didn't sin.

Noticing a woman is pretty or attractive isn't a sin. Holding on to those thoughts and entertaining sexual fantasies... now it becomes a sin.
Thinking about telling a lie, isn't a sin.. until I actually tell the lie. Thinking about stealing something isn't a sin, until I actually steal it.

He who hates his brother is guilty of murder, that's a tough one. But I have found you don't have to hold onto grudges, you don't have to hate.
If there is someone you have a problem with, start praying for them. Seriously... yeah it's hard sometimes, but I guarantee after a while it will
change your heart about them.

That's what the Christian faith is all about. Change, change of heart. Change of behavior. Loving one another.
If you don't believe that Jesus has the power to change you. Do you really believe in Him? Do you really have faith in Jesus?

A Christian changes 100% for sure, but we are still in a weak flesh. It is impossible to not sin every day. But I am talking to venial sins only. A Christian should never be able to commit a mortal sin.

The average guy thinks about sex 19 times a day.
 
A Christian changes 100% for sure, but we are still in a weak flesh. It is impossible to not sin every day. But I am talking to venial sins only. A Christian should never be able to commit a mortal sin.

The average guy thinks about sex 19 times a day.
You poor man, I think I now see why you believe we can be forgiven nearly everything, you have been taking all these evil thoughts, that probably a good number of them werent yours, and calling them your own, your own sin. You have believed the lies of the evil one, and that has reduced your belief that God's power can change us. I am glad to pray for you. You definately need freed from those heavy heavy chains you wear! God please show this man the wrong path he has taken!!
 
The average guy thinks about sex 19 times a day.

I must not be average anymore. ( There was a time a few decades ago... ) But also, if you are married and you think about sex, it usually isn't a sin.

Heb 13:4; Marriage is to be held in honor among all, and the marriage bed is to be undefiled; for fornicators and adulterers God will judge.

As long as sex is in the context of marriage, it's OK.

1Cor 7:5; Stop depriving one another, except by agreement for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer, and come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.

Read the Song of Solomon, sometime...

Song 4:5; "Your two breasts are like two fawns, Twins of a gazelle Which feed among the lilies.

Song 5:3; "I have taken off my dress, How can I put it on again? I have washed my feet, How can I dirty them again?
Song 5:4; "My beloved extended his hand through the opening, And my feelings were aroused for him.

All sex isn't necessarily a bad thing, and thinking about it isn't always a bad thing.
 
Gen 1:22; God blessed them, saying, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth."
Gen 1:28; God blessed them; and God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over every living thing that moves on the earth."

One of the first things God told men and women to do was.... "multiply". I don't think he was talking about using calculators and becoming an accountant here.

1Cor 7:9; But if they do not have self-control, let them marry; for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

The Bible says if you struggle with sexual desires... get married!
Now apparently, when you reach a certain age, sex has less appeal than when you were younger.

1Kin 1:1; Now King David was old, advanced in age; and they covered him with clothes, but he could not keep warm.
1Kin 1:2; So his servants said to him, "Let them seek a young virgin for my lord the king, and let her attend the king and become his nurse; and let her lie in your bosom, that my lord the king may keep warm."
1Kin 1:3; So they searched for a beautiful girl throughout all the territory of Israel, and found Abishag the Shunammite, and brought her to the king.
1Kin 1:4; The girl was very beautiful; and she became the king's nurse and served him, but the king did not cohabit with her.

The NIV and a few other translations put it like this.
(NIV) The woman was very beautiful; she took care of the king and waited on him, but the king had no sexual relations with her.

Even though David had someone to keep him warm at night, he was still married to Bathsheba

1Kin 1:15; So Bathsheba went in to the king in the bedroom. Now the king was very old, and Abishag the Shunammite was ministering to the king.
 
Matt 16:22; Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him, saying, "God forbid it, Lord! This shall never happen to You."
Matt 16:23; But He turned and said to Peter, "Get behind Me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to Me; for you are not setting your mind on God's interests, but man's."

John 13:2; During supper, the devil having already put into the heart of Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon, to betray Him,
John 13:27; After the morsel, Satan then entered into him. Therefore Jesus *said to him, "What you do, do quickly."

Acts 5:3; But Peter said, "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back some of the price of the land?
 

Ephesians 6:16

In all circumstances take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming darts of the evil one;

Flaming darts does not by default equal the devil placing a thought in my mind. The devil will work with and through media, people and demons.

Example:

1. On media you will see a naked lady. That will cause you to think of sex with her.
2. People at the office will talk vulgarly of woman. This will cause you to think those thoughts.
3. Demons can possess someone permanently or temporary. When they do this they can talk to your mind and this will cause you to think something. Possession by a demon is 'NOT' something that can happen to a Christian.

In every instance, 'we' choose to think the thought.
 
Matt 16:22; Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him, saying, "God forbid it, Lord! This shall never happen to You."
Matt 16:23; But He turned and said to Peter, "Get behind Me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to Me; for you are not setting your mind on God's interests, but man's."

This speaks to the devil choosing to set his mind on unGodly thoughts. Please see my post # 27 above.

John 13:2; During supper, the devil having already put into the heart of Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon, to betray Him,

Acts 5:3; But Peter said, "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back some of the price of the land?

These are interesting and good finds to support your view. But we need to get very technical in explaining how this happens. This whole discussion on thoughts is linked to the discussion on free will. Free will as you know is one of the hardest discussions in Christianity.

If we say that the devil had a rotten tomato and placed it in Judas's food. That would imply that God has given the devil power to override our free will.

The A-Z of what happened is.... Judas had chosen from free will to reject the teachings of Jesus in his heart. The devil saw this and was over time able to further tempt him. Using demons, people and media, as explained to Dave above.

One could argue this disagreement is a 'nothing burger'. Whether the devil actually places a thought in our minds or we think a thought based on what he makes us see and hear. its basically the same finality. But I disagree 100%. We have to be technical. Espousing no free will implies God is wicked as free will is a good thing. No free will is evil.

John 13:27; After the morsel, Satan then entered into him. Therefore Jesus *said to him, "What you do, do quickly."

Possession. No demon can possess a Christian and even for those that are possessed, as explained in post 27 this does not equate to a demon actually being able to place a thought in someone's mind.
 
All sex isn't necessarily a bad thing, and thinking about it isn't always a bad thing.

Every time you think of someone who you are not married to, it is a 'bad' thing Matt 5:28.

A guy thinks of sex 19 times a day due to dna and media's influence. Because of media, the fallen state of the world in which we live, 90% of that 19 times a day, thoughts are not of our spouse.

Men also have thoughts of aggression from our testosterone. We think daily of 'smashing some-ones' face in ;).

Woman, would be 'catty' Why Do Women Act Catty?.

All who say they don't sin daily are either oblivious to how small a sin can be or just lying to themselves.
 
1. On media you will see a naked lady. That will cause you to think of sex with her.
NO IT WILL NOT as born again believer I now have the power of the Holy Spirit to resist this, I promise you with all my heart might, and soul dear brother God gives us the power to overcome this,,, Just a minute ago I was on facebook and in my news feed a half naked women appeared that I am sue was gorgeous as well, I did not give the image a chance ,, the second I caught it with my eye I scrolled past it, and the only thought I had was how sad it was that a woman has to this for attention.

Brother I have been where you are and through consistent discipline and relying on the Holy Spirit you can fight these thoughts, God changes us when we are born again, one must be born again. Have you been born again brother have you seen a drastic change in your life, if not seek God with all your heart,,,,,, your post has me very concerned for you? I love you man and want to see you in heaven
 
NO IT WILL NOT as born again believer I now have the power of the Holy Spirit to resist this, I promise you with all my heart might, and soul dear brother God gives us the power to overcome this,,, Just a minute ago I was on facebook and in my news feed a half naked women appeared that I am sue was gorgeous as well, I did not give the image a chance ,, the second I caught it with my eye I scrolled past it, and the only thought I had was how sad it was that a woman has to this for attention.

Brother I have been where you are and through consistent discipline and relying on the Holy Spirit you can fight these thoughts, God changes us when we are born again, one must be born again. Have you been born again brother have you seen a drastic change in your life, if not seek God with all your heart,,,,,, your post has me very concerned for you? I love you man and want to see you in heaven

With regards to the 19 times a day, we will need to agree to disagree. It's actually not a big matter. :) ;)

With regards to the thoughts placed in our minds, it is a big matter. Do you see the point I make on this?
 
This whole discussion on thoughts is linked to the discussion on free will. Free will as you know is one of the hardest discussions in Christianity.

If we say that the devil had a rotten tomato and placed it in Judas's food. That would imply that God has given the devil power to override our free will.

No, someone, anyone, can place a thought in your head. Usually it's from talking to someone or reading something they wrote. Satan sometimes does it differently.
But just because someone gives us an idea, doesn't mean we have to do it.

"You know what, you should break up with your wife".
"Your boss is a jerk, you should punch him and quit your job".
"Go ahead and take that money you found, no one will ever know".
"Go ahead and look at that porno site, your wife won't know".

I have people give me bad advice all the time, that doesn't mean I have to do it. I still have free will.
... and even if Satan puts a thought in our minds, we don't have to do it, we can "choose" not to. ( free will ).

1Cor 10:13; No temptation has overtaken you but such as is common to man; and God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will provide the way of escape also, so that you will be able to endure it.

We never "have" to sin. That's the whole point. We don't have to sin. We are free from sin. We only sin, if we "choose" to by our own free will.
Satan can put thoughts in our minds, and tempt us, but he can't "make" us do anything we don't want to.

John 8:36; "So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed.
 
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Rom 6:20; For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness.
1Tim 5:22; Do not lay hands upon anyone too hastily and thereby share responsibility for the sins of others; keep yourself free from sin.

Rom 6:6; knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin;
Rom 6:7; for he who has died is freed from sin.

Rom 6:12; Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts,
Rom 6:13; and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.
Rom 6:14; For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

Rom 6:15; What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be!
Rom 6:16; Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?
Rom 6:17; But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed,
Rom 6:18; and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.

John 8:36; "So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed.

We don't have to sin. We sin because we have free-will and we choose to.

Josh 24:15; "If it is disagreeable in your sight to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves today whom you will serve: whether the gods which your fathers served which were beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living; but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD."
 
No, someone, anyone, can place a thought in your head. Usually it's from talking to someone or reading something they wrote. Satan sometimes does it differently.
But just because someone gives us an idea, doesn't mean we have to do it.

"You know what, you should break up with your wife".
"Your boss is a jerk, you should punch him and quit your job".
"Go ahead and take that money you found, no one will ever know".
"Go ahead and look at that porno site, your wife won't know".

You did not deal with my reply to you. As for these examples, we going in circles now.

You are giving examples of ideas presented to us, ideas that we can use to produce thoughts in our mind that are either sinful or not.

I am NOT debating that the devil presents ideas to us. I am debating the statement you made saying that the devil places a sinful thought in our mind. Our mind, is our mind. We have control over it. We choose to think a sinful thought. Dave gave an example of where the devil shows a half naked lady to him and he does not think a sinful thought. I am not as strong as him. I concede to the fact that we all think sinful thoughts all day long from ideas presented by the devil, media and other people.

I have people give me bad advice all the time, that doesn't mean I have to do it. I still have free will.
... and even if Satan puts a thought in our minds, we don't have to do it, we can "choose" not to. ( free will ).
Satan can put thoughts in our minds, and tempt us, but he can't "make" us do anything we don't want to.
John 8:36; "So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed.

Acting sinfully can also be the thought you choose to think Matt 5:28. Not merely 'the action' Matt 5:32.

I agree with free will. How do you if you state the devil can put thoughts in our minds? If you properly read my above post to you, you will see that I am splitting hairs on thoughts, as we need to. There is a fine line with free will. IE The devil placing a rotten tomato on my food = no free will. Me placing a rotten tomato on my food after the devil shows me a rotten tomato = free will.
 
Dave gave an example of where the devil shows a half naked lady to him and he does not think a sinful thought. I am not as strong as him.

It has happened on occasion, that I have been on the internet, on a site that has seemingly nothing to do with sex. I used to frequent a Linux website quite a bit, I have written numerous articles there.
But a few times, ads for sex dating sites, companion sites, and porno sites have popped up. They caught me by surprise. Now is it my sin that this happened? I didn't know it was going to happen.
There were pictures on scantily dressed, and nude women, sometimes even in the act of sex.

But I now have two choices. I can click on those pictures and go check out what they are advertising. ...or... I can close all that, walk away from the computer, grab my Bible, and start to pray.
Either way... it's my choice.

But it wasn't my sin that I saw those things. Sometimes we can't control what we see and what we hear. But we can control what we choose to keep seeing, and keep hearing.
Even Jesus was tempted, but He didn't sin. Being tempted isn't a sin.

Matt 5:27; "You have heard that it was said, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY';
Matt 5:28; but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
Matt 5:29; "If your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.
Matt 5:30; "If your right hand makes you stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to go into hell.


If what you're looking at causes you to stumble.. tear your eyes out. How graphic is that? Better to lose your eyes than to go to hell.
He that looks at a woman with lust...


Jas 1:14; But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust.
Jas 1:15; Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death.

Sin is really a process, temptation leads to enticement, enticement leads to lust, lust leads to sin, sin leads to death. If you know sin leads to death, why would you keep doing it?
You make a choice. A choice not to. It's really that simple.

I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

You have a few seconds to make a choice. Make the choice for life, or make the choice for death, it's up to you.
The fact that you saw a picture of a naked woman isn't always a sin ( it depends on how it happened, and if you chose to make it happen ).
But it's definitely a sin if you choose to keep looking at it. Lust doesn't happen in 1 or 2 seconds. It takes a few seconds for you to build that sexual fantasy in your mind.
So what are you going to do?

1Cor 6:18; Flee sexual sin. Every other sin that a man commits is outside the body, but the immoral man sins against his own body.

Eph 6:14; Stand firm therefore, HAVING GIRDED YOUR LOINS WITH TRUTH, and HAVING PUT ON THE BREASTPLATE OF RIGHTEOUSNESS,
Php 4:1; Therefore, my beloved brethren whom I long to see, my joy and crown, in this way stand firm in the Lord, my beloved.
1Thes 3:8; for now we really live, if you stand firm in the Lord.
2Thes 2:15; So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us.

It's funny that often we are told to "stand firm". Resist the devil and he will flee from you. But in the case of sexual sin, we aren't told to stand firm, we are told to flee.

Resisting lust takes practice sometimes, Get up, make yourself walk away. The first time is the hardest, do it again, and again... soon it becomes a habit.
You find out, you really can live without lust.
 
I have shared this before here on TalkJesus. I once saw a Cathy comic, back when we had comics in the newspapers. Cathy is a single lady who is slightly overweight, and in most of her comics, she struggles with it.
I remember one comic.

In the first frame she says... "I'm going to go for a drive today". - so far no problem right?
In the second frame she says... "I'm going to go for a drive, but I'm not going to drive by the store". Innocent enough, ok.
In the third frame she says, "I'll drive by the store, but I won't go in."
Forth frame, " I'll go in but I won't buy anything."
Fifth frame, " I'll buy some stuff, but I won't buy chocolate candy". --- ah ha.
Last frame, she is walking out of the store with chocolate all over her face.

If we use this as a metaphor for sin, when did the sin begin? When did the temptation begin? It was a process. We give in little by little, until we give all the way.
As soon as she said she wasn't going to the store, she already knew what she where she wanted to go, and what she wanted to do.

People who want to quit drinking, keep going to bars, and wonder why they can't quit.
People who want to quit gambling their money away, keep going to casino's and wonder why they can't stop.

People want to quit looking at porn, but they still have a computer hidden in the upstairs room that is away from everyone else. .. and they wonder why they can't quit.
They still have those magazines hidden in the bottom of the dresser, they can't throw them away ... and they wonder why they struggle.
They still have that fifth of bourbon in the trunk of the car, they still have those drug pipes in a box in the closet....

Sometimes we have to make changes. Put that computer in the living room where everyone can see what you're doing.
Quit driving to the store, quit going to the bar, quit going to the casino.

God will meet us halfway. He will send His helper ( the Holy Spirit ) to help us. But we need to show Him we are serious.

Josh 3:15; and when those who carried the ark came into the Jordan, and the feet of the priests carrying the ark were dipped in the edge of the water (for the Jordan overflows all its banks all the days of harvest),
Josh 3:16; the waters which were flowing down from above stood and rose up in one heap, a great distance away at Adam, the city that is beside Zarethan; and those which were flowing down toward the sea of the Arabah, the Salt Sea, were completely cut off. So the people crossed opposite Jericho.

God didn't stop the waters of the Jordan until the priests actually stepped into the water. Sometimes you have to make the first move. Quit telling God you want to quit if you're not willing to make a change.

Note: The Holy Spirit is the "helper" not the enforcer. Just like when Satan gives us a thought, we still have free-will. We can still disobey the Spirit if we choose to.

Acts 7:51; "You men who are stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears are always resisting the Holy Spirit; you are doing just as your fathers did.
 
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I Samuel 16:14-16

14 But the Spirit of the Lord departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the Lord troubled him.

15 And Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee.

16 Let our lord now command thy servants, which are before thee, to seek out a man, who is a cunning player on an harp: and it shall come to pass, when the evil spirit from God is upon thee, that he shall play with his hand, and thou shalt be well.
 
And the fact that an evil spirit can literally take over the mind of a person and the persons body movements tells you that they are skilled at moving inside a human body and their minds. When Judas was influenced by satan, it was those whispers into his mind that drove him to do something he eventually regreted and hung himself over.
 
When Judas was influenced by satan, it was those whispers into his mind that drove him to do something he eventually regreted and hung himself over.

What utter nonsense :D.

Like I have said repeatedly. You need to try and grasp that there is a fine line here. One side supports free will, the other does not. Free will is true in every instance as God is a good God.

Suggesting the devil 'made' Judas do something for which he hanged himself and will find himself in hell for eternity for, implies no free will on his part and makes God out to be an evil fool in giving the devil this ability and power over Judas.
 
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