Some Talking Points on Christianity and Homosexuality--article

[Spazz]

I've rebutted this article to death, but I was wondering what you guy's thoughts were. Feel free to break it down and tell me what this pastor said that was wrong, and how.

Some Talking Points on Christianity and Homosexuality - GayChurch.org

www.gaychurch.org

 

[Blake H]

That article doesn't mention or address 1 Corinthians 6:9. But people that are having homosexual thoughts can repent and be forgiven.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (MEV) "Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor male prostitutes, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God."

 

[Andyindauk]

The question of homosexuality is without doubt by a country mile, the most divisive issue that faces the church. There are strongly held views on this both to the left and the right, both are wrong and IMO there's a huge hinterland in the middle in which I think you will find God's will.


The Bible is quite clear on this, so far as God is concerned it's a no no. I don't understand why, in my heart of hearts deep down, I don't think I agree but I don't fancy giving God a lecture on morality, inclusivity and equal rights so in faith, I say to God, 'You God are right and I think I'm wrong on this matter. Therefore I bow to your wisdom and accept the Bible's teaching on this'. I know that when I eventually go 'upstairs', God will explain this to me and immediately I'll think, oh yes.


The guy in this article is trying to denigrate and then find loopholes in God's law. I can't say that I'm impressed with any of the attempts but in any case, he misses the point. We Christians are not bound by God's law, so there's no point in attempting to find a loophole is there? Paul puts it like this - All things are lawful for me, but not all things are helpful; all things are lawful for me, but not all things edify. I Corinthians 10:23 NKJV.


If we are true believers, filled with the Holy Spirit, then our imperative is to please the God who we love. In other words we don't do it because we have to, we do it because we want to. This was predicted by prophets 2,500 years ago Isaiah 59:21 Jeremiah 31:33 and Ezekiel 11:19 So then, like any other activity we're unsure of, we have to find out what is God's opinion is on gay sex? (distinguish between gay sex and homosexuality). Well there are plenty of verses in the Old Testament and new that will give you you a good idea of whether God approves or disapproves. Here are two - Leviticus 18:22, Romans 1:26-27.


So if there are any gays reading this post I would point out to them that God loves them and is calling them but if they want to please Him then they should give serious consideration to staying celibate; celibate as opposed to trying to be straight. I've said in other posts that if they can do this for God, God will recognise and reward this sacrifice greatly with a crown so bright and dazzling, that when we all go upstairs we'll have to wear shades just to look at it!


That said, IMO there are many Christians holding nineteenth-century homophobic opinions that use the Bible to justify their prejudices. Satan is the great deceiver, he tries to trick Christians into being anti-gay or homophobic. I will have nothing to do with protests against gay marriage or support those who break diversity laws regarding wedding cakes or b&b rooms. Our gospel is to preach Christ crucified 1 Corinthians 1:23, which has become a stumbling block to evangelical Christians. Our gospel is not to preach good, moral, nice behaviour, no it's to tell people about God's rescue plan. By projecting a homophobic image, the church is guilty of turning gays away and leaving them to their fate, which is exactly what Satan wants.

 

[LordKnows]

"if they can do this for God"

Without God, NOTHING can be done. The breath you just took, Yeah, God allowed that. God knows we can't do anything without him. He wants nothing more than for us to turn to him for guidance.

God's laws are the same yesterday, today & will stay the same forever.

Jesus didn't condemn the woman & he also didn't invite her and her sins into the church. He told her to "GO and sin NO MORE".


20 So where does this leave the philosophers, the scholars, and the world’s brilliant debaters? God has made the wisdom of this world look foolish. 21 Since God in his wisdom saw to it that the world would never know him through human wisdom, he has used our foolish preaching to save those who believe. 22 It is foolish to the Jews, who ask for signs from heaven. And it is foolish to the Greeks, who seek human wisdom. 23 So when we preach that Christ was crucified, the Jews are offended and the Gentiles say it’s all nonsense.

24 But to those called by God to salvation, both Jews and Gentiles,* Christ is the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 This foolish plan of God is wiser than the wisest of human plans, and God’s weakness is stronger than the greatest of human strength.

Stop allowing society make you feel bad for shaming homosexual sin. God IS NOT A WIMP & his laws are to be taken VERY SERIOUSLY. Anyone that believes there is such thing as a Gay Christian do NOT know God at all.

 

[PloughBoy]

well said: “ Lordknows”,

A true Child of God cannot even may a statement of sinning in such a way, if you sin, you will “grieve” the “Holy Spirit” if it is in you. It is “terrible” and it kinda stings when you “grieve the Holy Spirit”. You cannot keep going in the wrong direction not if you are a true child of God with The Holy Spirit in you. You might be deceive by people but bodily sexual sins, oh no that’s is a biggie, it pollutes you and you know big time, the joy of the “Holy Spirit” leaves! The spirit of God. Is grieved! If you say sexual sins doesn’t grieve the spirit of God, “you are lie and the truth of God is not in you”. Now you can Go tell God I said that! All these “Nominal Christians” in these so- called church buildings, Running around calling things that are “evil” calling it love”. Calling a life of “fornication” love., calling a life of “Adultery” a “marriage”. And those who approve such is just as guilty. Calling light darkness and darkness light.

I think I will settle down for the night, before one these “nominal Christians” tell me I’m not showing any love right now.

 

[Harmony]

Homosexual is wrong. Male things are meant to go somewhere and that is not other males are you don't have to be a full bottle believer to know that

 

[Sue D.]

I think that with women - it can be somewhat different. Women are natural born huggers and talkers and sharer of more intimate conversation. And we Also know when a line is being crossed.

And there are So many people that approach homosexuality with -- there is no little 'love' being shown these days -- what's Wrong with 'me' loving someone of the same sex.

And I would respond back that there are Many ways to Show love other than with physicalness.

And when the1st states made civil unions legal and showed men marrying each other. It didn't look natural and seeing them actually kiss each other was sickening. In fact, I had to look away from the TV screen.

It's just so NOT. And women marrying each other. Again - so NOT.

Men and women getting married // husband and wife // bride and groom. // Mr and Mrs. // That is Natural terminology.

In a wedding party -- when you see two men in suits -- you're automatically looking for a bride or woman joining them.

Pastors who are okay with same-sex couples being encouraged in church are dead wrong. They are encouraging disrespect for God's Word And disrespecting the sanctity of marriage.

 

[LordKnows]

"Pastors who are okay with same-sex couples being encouraged in church are dead wrong. They are encouraging disrespect for God's Word And disrespecting the sanctity of marriage"

ANYONE that is "okay" with homosexuality / samesex marriage & the like are ONLY in it for the money & acceptance. I do NOT care how many people embrace it, it will ALWAYS be wrong to me. If the entire world believes that it's right, I'll stand firm with knowing it's wrong & unacceptable.

 

[lettheredeemed]

What do you think about churches that encourage homosexuals to visit their churches with the intention of teaching the truth of Gods Word to them?

 

[PloughBoy]

IMO, like you said, “their churches”. They can invite anyone who they may, it is their church.

 

[lettheredeemed]

according to this thread it appeared like they may not be welcome in some churches?

 

[Sue D.]

The same-sex people / couples that make sure that people know they are there are the ones who cause problems -- but are Probably the one's we want to make sure 'we' say Hi to.

 

[Andyindauk]

What do you think about churches that encourage homosexuals to visit their churches with the intention of teaching the truth of Gods Word to them?

Naively, I would hope that every church would welcome gays like this. Where in the Bible does it say otherwise? No one is beyond God's love and should be turned away at the door, no one. Jesus readily reached out to those entangled in sexual sin John 4:1-42, John 8:1-11 and revelled in the adoration of prostitutes and tax collectors, much to the chagrin of the Pharisees. IMHO too many churches prefer and follow the example of the Pharisees to that of Jesus.

Sadly there are these days Christians that harbour hateful homophobic views and use their faith to justify them. I ask them, shunning sections of society, hating and discriminating against them, is that God's will or Satan's?

I believe that Jesus' great commission instructs me to make disciples of all the nations (no exceptions) baptising them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, (now the crux) teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you ... We are not instructed to just preach moral codes of conduct and leave it at that. In the unlikely event that such a message were to get through to a gay man and he were to defy his genes and 'turn straight' he would be no closer to God and his eternal fate would remain unchanged. I believe that God is calling all men and women including LGBTQ to follow Him. If they do and love Him and want to please Him, and the church follows through with part b of the commission (teach them to observe all things that I have commanded) then you would hope that with help from the Holy Spirit they would work on that aspect of their lives.

So yes, if two guys or two women come into church holding hands, I would like to think that all believers would extend a hand of friendship; is that naive?

 

[Sue D.]

There Are churches who are trying to give the message that it's really Okay to Be homosexual. The message of being celebet Should be taught. God's marriage is between one man and one woman -- every single person is to be pure until marriage. Society wants to adjust God's Word to fit Their views. We need to adjust Our views to God's Word.

Going to church is Supposed to be focussed on worshiping God / hearing / learning more of God's Word. Encouraging one another in a Godly way. Honestly -- I don't see very many -- if Any married couples holding hands coming into church or leaving church. Or sitting with an arm around the back of the wife's / girlfriends chair.

Though -- speaking as a widow now -- if / when I ever connect with another man -- I probably wouldn't mind his arm being around the back of the pew where I'm sitting. But I would Also expect that during the service , he'd be busy listening to the sermon / holding his Bible and not holding a piece of technowledgy. And, yes, I still carry an actual Bible to church. Always will.

 

[Sue D.]

Being friendly is fine -- but Not being okay with that life-style. God isn't. To Him, it's putrid / an abomination.

Being hateful towards them isn't right, either. Hate is Never okay in Any situation.

 

[B-A-C]

So yes, if two guys or two women come into church holding hands, I would like to think that all believers would extend a hand of friendship; is that naive?

This has happened in a church I attended. But the next week there were a dozen gay couples in the congregation, holding hands, kissing and hugging.
In just a week a couple of weeks they were known as a "gay friendly" church. This was not the case at all. Eventually these people were asked to leave.

It isn't always about God loving them, of course He does. But it is about accepting their lifestyle and approving of it.

Rom 1:26; For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural,
Rom 1:27; and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.

Rom 1:32; and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do these things, but also those who give hearty approval to those who practice them.

Notice it says, not only those who practice homosexuality... but even those who approve of others doing it are just as guilty.
Before you know it, the entire church has a reputation of "approving" of it. Children, new believers, and even "liberal believers" from other churches start thinking...
"It must OK".. "God, must be OK with it, because the people in this church are allowing it and accepting it".

Some behaviors can not, and should not be tolerated in the church.

1 Cor 5:12; For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church?
1 Cor 5:13; But those who are outside, God judges. REMOVE THE WICKED MAN FROM AMONG YOURSELVES.

 

[ForeverinHim]

I think it’s sad that people feel the need to go through such mental acrobatics in order to feel accepted by the church.
Does the Bible mention homosexuality? Of course, and there is no denying it.
Does the Bible prohibit homosexual behavior? I would believe so.
But is that any excuse or justification to kick people out of your church? I wouldn’t think so. If two men or two women decide to come to my church, I would welcome them with open arms, as their relationship is between them and God, and I am in no position to place judgement.

 

[Sue D.]

It would depend entirely on the attitude / behavior of the same-sex couple when they are in the congregation. If they are listening like everyone else, fine. If they appear to be attending just to cause turmoil -- I would probably have a deacon with me and invite them over for lunch -- see what their reaction is.

If you are speaking as a pastor of a church -- then you Do have the responsibility of protecting your flock from obvious sinful behavior.

And, yes, their relationship to God through Jesus Christ would be the most important. Sit down with the same-sex couple and approach their salvation -- share Your testimony with them and invite them to do the same.

 

[B-A-C]

But is that any excuse or justification to kick people out of your church? I wouldn’t think so. If two men or two women decide to come to my church, I would welcome them with open arms, as their relationship is between them and God, and I am in no position to place judgement.

Are they coming to your church to repent? Or are they coming to make a statement and practice what they do in the church, in front of people in the church.

1Cor 5:9; I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people;
1Cor 5:10; I did not at all mean with the immoral people of this world, or with the covetous and swindlers, or with idolaters, for then you would have to go out of the world.
1Cor 5:11; But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler—not even to eat with such a one.
1Cor 5:12; For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church?
1Cor 5:13; But those who are outside, God judges. REMOVE THE WICKED MAN FROM AMONG YOURSELVES.

If you tolerate their behavior in the church, you are making a statement whether you think you are or not.

Rom 1:26; For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural,
Rom 1:27; and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.
Rom 1:28; And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper,

Rom 1:32; and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, not only those who practice these things but also those who give hearty approval to those who practice them.

Merely approving of others doing these things makes you "worthy of death".

 

[Sue D.]

There's a fine line here. Attitude / appearance makes the difference.