Speaking in Tongues: Required for Regeneration?.

[God's Truth]

I have not read all the way through, but I was only tagging you because you were involved in that conversation with @vhusley

Yes, thanks to the Lord, it does look the same so far. May God cause the increase in recovering some from this snare of the devil, brother. 2 Timothy 2:24-26 1 Timothy 4:1 & Isaiah 8:19

Amen.
So glad to see more of us here who know the truth about tongues.

 

[GodB4Us]

Who said everyone WOULD speak in tongues?
Who said everyone would be filled with the Holy Ghost?
Who said everyone would operate in EVERY spiritual gift?
Who said everyone who claims to be saved and to be a believer really is?
What’s your point?

The point for me is, the Bible clearly speaks of more than just the GIFT of tongues…..and so does Paul. Rationalize around it all you’d like. You can’t take away from what God’s Word says and you can’t take away from what so many have already EXPERIENCED for themselves.
You telling me that me speaking in tongues is not real is like me telling you your salvation experience wasn’t real.
How would that make you feel?

You really need to follow Solomon’s (God’s) advice from Proverbs and stop leaning on YOUR own understanding so much.

Believers need to stop fitting their experiences into the scripture and instead use scripture to discern the experience with His help.

 

[vhusley]

@GodB4Us Hello, and welcome to the discuss.
I don't know how much of the thread you read, but I have explained these scriptures already. There is also another tongues thread going, you might want to check out.

Nice to read about your beliefs about tongues, and so far it looks as if our beliefs are the same about it.

You’ve explained little or nothing. You’ve dodged every question about any specific scripture that doesn’t defend your false narrative.

 

[GodB4Us]

You’ve explained little or nothing. You’ve dodged every question about any specific scripture that doesn’t defend your false narrative.

Maybe it is time for you to ask Jesus to help you understand the opposition? If you are in the right, He would help you understand and then correct or edify in regards to the topic of tongues, but be sure to be open to correction by the scriptures as well since scripture cannot go against scripture is how you can discern whether or not your or the opposition is rightly dividing the word of truth..

 

[God's Truth]

Who said everyone WOULD speak in tongues?

You don't know what you said about speaking in tongues?

Who said everyone would be filled with the Holy Ghost?

Being filled with the Holy Spirit happens to all the saved.

Who said everyone would operate in EVERY spiritual gift?

You are making tongue speaking the ultimate gift and decider.

Who said everyone who claims to be saved and to be a believer really is?

You are claiming that tongue speakers are proof of true believers. That is why the scripture I gave proves everything you say as being false.

What’s your point?

The point for me is, the Bible clearly speaks of more than just the GIFT of tongues…..and so does Paul. Rationalize around it all you’d like. You can’t take away from what God’s Word says and you can’t take away from what so many have already EXPERIENCED for themselves.
You telling me that me speaking in tongues is not real is like me telling you your salvation experience wasn’t real.
How would that make you feel?

I understand exactly how it makes you feel. After I was saved, not being careful enough, I was taught how to speak in tongues and even believed I interpreted what I was saying. When someone asked me about tongues I wanted to give them scriptural answers, it was then that I realized I didn't have the truth about tongues. We must check on everything someone wants to teach us.

As for giving you more information on how I know how it feels to think you have the truth...in my search for God, I had to give up my Catholic denomination, which was my family, my faith, my time, my life, and then I had to give up another false denomination later in my search for God's Truth. It is better to listen and not harden your heart. I have had many more miraculous things happen to me because I didn't harden my heart and repented of my false beliefs.

You really need to follow Solomon’s (God’s) advice from Proverbs and stop leaning on YOUR own understanding so much.

We are not to lean on our own understanding, but just do what God says, then He will give us understanding and blessings.

 

[God's Truth]

You’ve explained little or nothing. You’ve dodged every question about any specific scripture that doesn’t defend your false narrative.

Satan doesn't want you to know the truth, so interference is very likely to happen to you. You might even have more demonic activity around you because of it, and, you might rely on your false beliefs and the demonic activity stop, for Satan doesn't want to lose you.

 

[vhusley]

Believers need to stop fitting their experiences into the scripture and instead use scripture to discern the experience with His help.

Critics, skeptics, and those of small faith need to stop judging others’ spiritual experiences through the lens of their own understanding or lack thereof.

Bro. I was the biggest skeptic ever regarding tongues.
Not to toot my own horn, but I hold a couple Masters Degrees in History that have required me to do a great deal of research which, in turn required me to be very accurate in source-checking and in documentation.

I was also raised in a Calvinistic-Reformed church environment where the teachers and pastors were purely cessationist in their doctrines and proudly touted their knowledge of God’s Word and what they could “prove” or “disprove” through it. They denied tongues for the same reason you do….based on their pride, their unyielded spirit, and lack of faith in what they could not see or prove with this rational senses. So they sought out whatever scripture they could stretch and manipulate and tied together whatever parts of the Bible defended their narrative and simply ignored what is plainly there in scripture. What many believers were plainly experiencing for themselves.
So, being brought up in this doctrine, for me, if it wasn’t grounded in scripture….I wasn’t buying it. I didn’t trust others “experiences” in light of what MY understanding of scripture was.

Long story short, all of that changed when I finally….FULLY…yielded. Yielded my heart, my spirit…..and yes…..my tongue. Can I explain it scientifically…logically? No. And I don’t need to.
Can I support it BIBLICALLY? Of course.
And can I testify to its authenticity? ABSOLUTELY! ….both as an eye witness and as one who has experienced it personally. (In the circles of extra-biblical research, that’s what we refer to as a primary source by the way.. )

Being filled with the Holy Spirit happens to all the saved.


I understand exactly how it makes you feel. After I was saved, not being careful enough, I was taught how to speak in tongues and even believed I interpreted what I was saying. When someone asked me about tongues I wanted to give them scriptural answers, it was then that I realized I didn't have the truth about tongues. We must check on everything someone wants to teach us.

As for giving you more information on how I know how it feels to think you have the truth...in my search for God, I had to give up my Catholic denomination, which was my family, my faith, my time, my life, and then I had to give up another false denomination later in my search for God's Truth. It is better to listen and not harden your heart. I have had many more miraculous things happen to me because I didn't harden my heart and repented of my false beliefs.

@God's Truth Bro, I’m finished dealing with your nonsense. You are a sower of discourse, and a false teacher….nothing more.

 

[vhusley]

Maybe it is time for you to ask Jesus to help you understand the opposition? If you are in the right, He would help you understand and then correct or edify in regards to the topic of tongues, but be sure to be open to correction by the scriptures as well since scripture cannot go against scripture is how you can discern whether or not your or the opposition is rightly dividing the word of truth..

Maybe it’s time for you to repent, be baptized in Jesus’ Name, receive the baptism of Holy Ghost as Peter instructed in Acts 2:38, then maybe if you’re yielded enough….you’ll start speaking in tongues. Your life will never be the same….I promise!

 

[GodB4Us]

Critics, skeptics, and those of small faith need to stop judging others’ spiritual experiences through the lens of their own understanding or lack thereof.

Believers are to correct and discern by the scriptures. That is how you can judge people's experiences as well as the phenomenon they exalt.

Bro. I was the biggest skeptic ever regarding tongues.
Not to toot my own horn, but I hold a couple Masters Degrees in History that have required me to do a great deal of research which, in turn required me to be very accurate in source-checking and in documentation.

That doesn't mean you know everything in history, correct? Then I suggest you use your skill in research and study the existence of pagan's supernatural tongue which is gibberish nonsense that had existed way before Pentecost came with the real God's gift of tongues which is of other men's lips for God to speak unto the people.

I was also raised in a Calvinistic-Reformed church environment where the teachers and pastors were purely cessationist in their doctrines and proudly touted their knowledge of God’s Word and what they could “prove” or “disprove” through it. They denied tongues for the same reason you do….based on their pride, their unyielded spirit, and lack of faith in what they could not see or prove with this rational senses.

Not really. I am not a cessationist since I believe the Lord is still ministering through the Holy Spirit per those gifts, and one of them is discerning of spirits, if you recall.

The problem here is it has been prophesied that many shall depart from faith in giving heed to seducing spirits & doctrines of devils, having their conscience seared as if with a hot iron. 1 Timothy 4:1 This is regarding any one that teaches one can receive the Holy Spirit again apart from salvation thus departing from the simplicity of the gospel in preaching another gospel as in receiving Jesus Christ again and in this case, receiving another baptism with the Holy Ghost in order to get that tongue which never comes with interpretation for why it is "assumed" to be for private use when in truth, it is not of Him at all. What is the hypocrisy that many believers will sear their conscience by? That even though they believe they have the Holy Spirit in them since salvation at the calling of the gospel when they had first believed, they believe they can receive the holy Spirit again after a sign, thus committing spiritual adultery. Matthew 12:39

Will God copy cat Satan's supernatural tongue? No, and yet Satan's tongues was gibberish nonsense BEFORE Pentecost per Isaiah 8:19 for why the real God's gift of tongues will not be like that. See?

So do the research on pagan's supernatural tongue and explain how sinners that were involved in that before Pentecost can repent and know they have departed from those spirits if Christians speak the same way? Indeed, how can Churches know if that sinner has repented if he continues to speak the same way as they do for why they assume tongues are for private use?

So they sought out whatever scripture they could stretch and manipulate and tied together whatever parts of the Bible defended their narrative and simply ignored what is plainly there in scripture. What many believers were plainly experiencing for themselves.
So, being brought up in this doctrine, for me, if it wasn’t grounded in scripture….I wasn’t buying it. I didn’t trust others “experiences” in light of what MY understanding of scripture was.

Long story short, all of that changed when I finally….FULLY…yielded. Yielded my heart, my spirit…..and yes…..my tongue. Can I explain it scientifically…logically? No. And I don’t need to.
Can I support it BIBLICALLY? Of course.
And can I testify to its authenticity? ABSOLUTELY! ….both as an eye witness and as one who has experienced it personally. (In the circles of extra-biblical research, that’s what we refer to as a primary source by the way.. )

And how did you yield? Like opening yourself up to receiving spirits? New age methodology? Khundalini? When did Peter or Paul ever prepped any sinner about receiving the Holy Spirit when all they did was preached Jesus Christ & Him crucified for how the promise of the Spirit would come at their salvation. Look at when Peter preached to the gentiles for the first time.

Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. 44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

Peter never mentioned the promise of the Holy Spirit to be at their salvation moment and yet this happened because this was promised for all those that believed in Him.

Granted, there are other places in scripture where there was a necessity for the laying on of hands, like in Acts 8th chapter, but only because of the circumstances for why they were not quite right with the Lord in coming to & believing in Him when they were following Philip out of fanfare to behold the miracles happening per their errant point of view by Philip. Even Simon was still in that mentality when he saw Peter & John laying on of hands as if seemingly they were giving the Holy Ghost when in fact they were not but Simon sought to buy this power from them so he could do it too.

My point here is saved believers are led astray into seeking salvation by a sign when they were already saved when they had first believed. Now because of this apostasy, they are exalted above other believers that did not have another drink of the One Spirit as they are the actual ones that divide the body of Christ by that other calling hence another gospel.

I ask you to prove that pagan's supernatural tongues in the world before Pentecost is not that tongues you all insists is for private use as gained by an extra phenomenon when seeking it or yielding to it.

 

[GodB4Us]

Maybe it’s time for you to repent, be baptized in Jesus’ Name, receive the baptism of Holy Ghost as Peter instructed in Acts 2:38, then maybe if you’re yielded enough….you’ll start speaking in tongues. Your life will never be the same….I promise!

Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. 44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

How much yielding did the Gentiles do? Reading how Peter never prepped nor informed that Gentiles would receive this promise and yet this happened anyway because this was given as a promise from God.

So I really have to wonder why you took the way of the world's route in receiving spirits?

John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Galatians 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith......... 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

You should have trusted in His word that the moment you believed in the Lord Jesus Christ & that God has raised Him from the dead, you were saved right then & there as born again of the Spirit without yielding to receiving a spirit as proof of salvation.

 

[God's Truth]

@God's Truth Bro, I’m finished dealing with your nonsense. You are a sower of discourse, and a false teacher….nothing more.

Well you have proven what you are.

Matthew 7:2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

 

[Garee]

The devil is the father of lies, not Cain.
No scripture calls Abel a prophet or a martyr.
Only speak what the scriptures say.

The father of lies is a murderer from that very beginning .

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it

Apostle means" sent one" every prophet are sent with prophecy the word of God .

Rehab another apostle sent by the father or Deborah many apostles

 

[God's Truth]

The father of lies is a murderer from that very beginning .

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

The scripture plainly says it is about the devil.


Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world—he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.

Luke 10:18 And he said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.


You really think that is about Cain?

 

[Shaolin]

You won't be able to change my mind if that is what you mean, however, there is no ignoring going on.. A person who wants the truth will have to be humble and not harden their heart. It can be traumatic to realize you have been believing and doing something that is not biblical. Look what the apostle Paul gave up and it was worth it.

Yes, I know that I cannot change your mind, because you are a bias defender, not a truth seeker.

I do hope that you make it...but bias defenders seldom do.

..

 

[God's Truth]

Yes, I know that I cannot change your mind, because you are a bias defender, not a truth seeker.

I do hope that you make it...but bias defenders seldom do.

..

Why do you say that when I told you I used to believe I was speaking in tongues and even interpret?
And why do you say that after I told you I used to belong to the Catholic denomination and another false denomination and left it?
I know what it is like to give up false beliefs for the truth.

 

[Shaolin]

Why do you say that when I told you I used to believe I was speaking in tongues and even interpret?
And why do you say that after I told you I used to belong to the Catholic denomination and another false denomination and left it?
I know what it is like to give up false beliefs for the truth.

I say that because I have come to see in many people that years after they got saved (IF they actually did get saved, and was not deceived...like many of those in calvinism), they got side tracked by false doctrines, led astray, and still believe they are walking with God when they are not. I doesn't matter what you did in the past...the real question is, do you understand "the way of God" (Acts 18:24-26) in truth (because Apollos didn't in the beginning, thinking he was saved when he wasn't) and are walking with Him according to the ONLY way that He accepts...or have you given in to so many false doctrines that you are now deceived by them and on your way to eternal fire.

That is the real question. It can take many false doctrines, depending upon what they are, or just one major false doctrine (like Jesus is not God in the flesh) to keep a person from getting saved, and to destroy any relationship with God that he might have had in the past. Once that relationship is gone, that person is no longer walking with God, no matter what they believe.

..

 

[GodB4Us]

I say that because I have come to see in many people that years after they got saved (IF they actually did get saved, and was not deceived...like many of those in calvinism), they got side tracked by false doctrines, led astray, and still believe they are walking with God when they are not. I doesn't matter what you did in the past...the real question is, do you understand "the way of God" (Acts 18:24-26) in truth (because Apollos didn't in the beginning, thinking he was saved when he wasn't) and are walking with Him according to the ONLY way that He accepts...or have you given in to so many false doctrines that you are now deceived by them and on your way to eternal fire.

That is the real question. It can take many false doctrines, depending upon what they are, or just one major false doctrine (like Jesus is not God in the flesh) to keep a person from getting saved, and to destroy any relationship with God that he might have had in the past. Once that relationship is gone, that person is no longer walking with God, no matter what they believe.

..

@God's Truth

No saved believer having gone astray, are going to hell, because even though former believers would deny Him for why He would deny them at the rapture event, former believers and those whom have gone astray are left behind, He still abides in them;

2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

That is why even former believers are still saved as they are still to be called to depart from iniquity before the Bridegroom comes so they too can be received by Him as that vessel unto honor in His House which is the eternal glory that comes with our salvation in Christ's Jesus.

2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

2 Corinthians 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight 8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. 9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. 11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.


How Former Believers Are Still Saved?

 

[Samson2020]

Why do you say that when I told you I used to believe I was speaking in tongues and even interpret?

Explain.

I told you I used to belong to the Catholic denomination and another false denomination and left it?

Why did you leave each? Regardless you did come out out of her (false religion)

 

[God's Truth]

I say that because I have come to see in many people that years after they got saved (IF they actually did get saved, and was not deceived...like many of those in calvinism), they got side tracked by false doctrines, led astray, and still believe they are walking with God when they are not. I doesn't matter what you did in the past...the real question is, do you understand "the way of God" (Acts 18:24-26) in truth (because Apollos didn't in the beginning, thinking he was saved when he wasn't) and are walking with Him according to the ONLY way that He accepts...or have you given in to so many false doctrines that you are now deceived by them and on your way to eternal fire.

That is the real question. It can take many false doctrines, depending upon what they are, or just one major false doctrine (like Jesus is not God in the flesh) to keep a person from getting saved, and to destroy any relationship with God that he might have had in the past. Once that relationship is gone, that person is no longer walking with God, no matter what they believe.

..

I have a powerful testimony of when I was saved. I only wanted God's Truth, and not some man's truth. When I searched for God, I searched for Him in many denominations, and would still be searching if I didn't get Jesus' teachings in the Bible and do what he says to do.
After I was saved, sometimes I wasn't careful, and believed what teachers told me, and I was taught to speak in tongues and interpret, until a relative asked me what it was and how to do it, then, wanting to teach them only with scriptures, I realized I believed what a preacher said about tongues and the scriptures, instead of checking them out myself.
There was a short time I believed in the trinity because they taught Jesus was God, but they also taught wrong that Jesus was different from God. I have so many scriptures to show that Jesus is God the Father come as a son, they are one and are the same one.
I had people try to lead me astray to Calvinism, and the like. I hardly ate and drank and sleep for a couple of weeks, while I studied the scriptures to see if it was true, and God showed me it was not true.

 

[God's Truth]

@God's Truth

No saved believer having gone astray, are going to hell, because even though former believers would deny Him for why He would deny them at the rapture event, former believers and those whom have gone astray are left behind, He still abides in them;

2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

Jesus says if we deny him he will deny us.

That is why even former believers are still saved as they are still to be called to depart from iniquity before the Bridegroom comes so they too can be received by Him as that vessel unto honor in His House which is the eternal glory that comes with our salvation in Christ's Jesus.

2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

2 Corinthians 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight 8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. 9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. 11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.


How Former Believers Are Still Saved?

We cannot fall away. Jesus warns us for a reason.
There are people who believe in him and will suffer wrath.