Stigmata, the truth?

[rizen1]

That is not biblical Brother Mike.

Look at the test Job went through.

Originally Posted by Brother Mike
This is not from God. Anything that comes from God will never depress you, make you sad, is full of peace, and always gives the victory. By his stripes you are healed. So, bad dreams, things the scare you are not from God, even though the devil will try to dress it up like God.

When Brother said "this''...we have to ask what is he refering to then we would understand the sentence that followed.

2) You know, God does not heal everyone. You might not get healed, so prepare for the worse.

That voice have to be tested, what if God is going to heal that person but because they choose to listen to that deceiving spirit they lose faith.


We have to test everything, yes Job went through alot. But we can't accept everything bad in our lives and be like...oh this is a Job season and sit through it. No you better go on your knees and ask the father if thats the season you're suppose to be in, then rebuke those spirits of oppression.

Since I am in Christ I have been rescued from the domain of satan's rule and transferred to the kingdom of Christ. Colossians 1:13

We need to test every single thing.
Devil is out to get us..we have to be on our guard at all times.

John 10:10 The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy;

 

[Repent]

When Brother said "this''...we have to ask what is he refering to then we would understand the sentence that followed.

Funny, cause I did read all of it.
Do you forget that God will chastise you according to sin? This is why you fear God.
He will plague you. He will make you sick, if that is His will.
He has a plan.

 

[Rain]

Repent, keep in mind that Job was tested by Satan with God's permission, not by God himself. This is the point we are trying to illustrate for Daniisalivenow; spirits that depress you are not from God, it is not his will to depress, oppress, condem... he will convict us yes, and we should rejoice in that. And yes, also rejoice in all suffering. But know that suffering is not 'From God'.

 

[Repent]

What about the 40 years mosses had to travil with the tribe. It took that long because they were chastised by God.

 

[Rain]

You misunderstand me, I say again; God will convict us and purify us, but he will not attack us. Chastise means to discipline, restrain and refine. And I agree wholeheartedly with you that God will indeed discipline, restrain and refine us and therefore chastise us, sometimes even severely. But all attack against us is not from God, but from Satan.

 

[Repent]

But in ever used the word "attack"
You are basically restating what i already wrote.

 

[Rain]

The original point was that Brother Mike said

This is not from God. Anything that comes from God will never depress you, make you sad, is full of peace, and always gives the victory.

and you said

That is not biblical Brother Mike.

Look at the test Job went through.

[...]

God will test your loyalty. Because you are of God, You must strive harder. Everything is a lesson, even pain.

and in reply to THAT I tried to make the point that what Brother Mike said was -not- unbiblical. You raised the cases of Moses and the Israelites in the desert for forty years and Job. Now while I agree with you that Moses is a case of chastisement, Job was neither a case of chastisement or God testing his loyalty. -Satan- was given permission by God to test Job, and Job, knowing that he had committed no sin was not depressed but gave glory to God. And -that- is the point I was trying to make. No one is trying to say that being Christian and following God is all happiness, good feelings, light, love and peace. But certainly if one listens to and follows spirits that are not of God then one would inhibit the 'peace, joy, love' process... That is all rizen1 and Bother Mike and I are trying to say.

Now I apologise if the way I tried to explain it before was too confusing, I hope this brings us to greater clarity of understanding.

 

[natty threads]

"He will plague you. He will make you sick, if that is His will."

Sure, but IS it is His will?
How do you know His will?

Maybe, just maybe, the plagues and sickness are the inevitable result of wrong action?

Repent, Grace and Faith.

Hellfire and damnation you scare with is not from Jesus.
It is self-inflicted.

God is your father.
Go ahead.
Look in His fridge.
Are you hungry?
Eat.

Bless up,
Jennifer

 

[natty threads]

What about the 40 years mosses had to travil with the tribe. It took that long because they were chastised by God.

Repent, what did God do for the Israelites immediately before they were wandering in the desert? Did they not leave bondage from Egypt with nearly all of Egypt's personal wealth? And then completely disable Pharoah and his army without a single Israelite raising a sword?

And were they not fed and cared for in the desert?

Then how did they show their gratitude?

Withholding a reward for right action when the right action has not yet occurred most definitely is not punishment.

Bless up!

 

[natty threads]

Also, I do not fear God because I fear chastisement.

I fear God because I fear how He uses prophets.

Bless up!

 

[Brother Mike]

Hi Natty!!!

Just some interesting things........

The Word Chastisement means to instruct in the WORD. It is the Greek word paideia. So, your going to get Chastisement by the Word of God, sometimes your going to have to let go things you allow in your life that will not seem pleasant at first, but put you in more provision and blessing

Here is more proof......

2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

MORE Proof!!!

Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ:

He gave us wonderful people anointed to teach us, until we grow and become like Jesus!!

God is not using the tools of hell and death, with sickness to teach his children..........He loves us.....

--------------------------------------------------------------

The Word prophet or prophecy means to edify. Being a prophet of God has nothing to do with telling the future, and you should not fear them as they are suppose to walk in love toward you, and your father in heaven would be very upset at them if they hurt you.......

God has used me in the office of a prophet many times......I believe I will be full time once I get a more mature in the Word.........and um.... with people...

Love everyone!!!

Jesus Is Lord!!

 

[jiggyfly]

The Word prophet or prophecy means to edify. Being a prophet of God has nothing to do with telling the future, and you should not fear them as they are suppose to walk in love toward you, and your father in heaven would be very upset at them if they hurt you.......

God has used me in the office of a prophet many times......I believe I will be full time once I get a more mature in the Word.........and um.... with people...

Love everyone!!!

Jesus Is Lord!!

May I ask where you got this definitions of the Greek words prophetes(prophet) and propheteia (prophecy)? I searched Wuest's word study, Vincent's word study, The Dictionary of New Testament Theology, Thayer's Greek Lexicon, McClintock and Strongs cyclopedia of Biblical Theological and Ecclesiastical Literature,and Strong's Greek Dictionary and I see nothing even close to your definition.

 

[Brother Mike]

sure thing Brother.......

My point was that the Word Prophet brings pictures of someone telling the future and giving doom and gloom messages from God or whoever....

A Prophet is a inspired speaker. Someone speaking by the utterance of The Holy Ghost. Words given, not though head knowledge, but God using a man or women to directly speak.

Even those that say Prophets are no longer around have operated in this from time to time when Giving sermons. It is inspired utterance by God.

If you have ever preached you may have noticed a time where the words just came, and it seems as if your on auto pilot, you go away from you notes, and the right words just come out....

There are two Greek words for prophecy in the new testament.(both words suggest a foretelling. But only because that was the best Greek Word to describe it. Paul tells us what the purpose is.) Any believer can have a prophecy, being a prophet is not a requirement.

As with all the five fold ministers, any of the knowledge gifts can come into operation. Just because God used you in any of these gifts, does not make you a Prophet, But as the SPIRIT WILLS for the benefit of man.

Word of Wisdom: Future events

Word of Knowledge: events for now or things of the past.

Discerning of spirits: Seeing into the realm of the Spirit, such as seeing one for God's angels that are always around or the operation of some devil which seem to be abundant.

Paul gives the definition of someone that prophesieth.

1Co 14:4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

So, the main purpose for the gift in the new testament is for edification of the Church.

Unlike the Old testament, their are no prophets today adding to the Word of God. The course of this world is already laid out.

Can prophets get something from God about the future? Yes... but so can every believe in the Body of Christ....

Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come.

You may see more of the Word gifts in someone that is in the office of a prophet(Called by God for that specific office.), but the purpose is to edify the church........

There are a lot of goofy self proclaimed prophets out there today. I won't mention names........
Every Thus said the Lord has be in line with something God has already said though.............

 

[jiggyfly]

My point was that the Word Prophet brings pictures of someone telling the future and giving doom and gloom messages from God or whoever....

A Prophet is a inspired speaker. Someone speaking by the utterance of The Holy Ghost. Words given, not though head knowledge, but God using a man or women to directly speak.

Even those that say Prophets are no longer around have operated in this from time to time when Giving sermons. It is inspired utterance by God.

If you have ever preached you may have noticed a time where the words just came, and it seems as if your on auto pilot, you go away from you notes, and the right words just come out....

There are two Greek words for prophecy in the new testament.(both words suggest a foretelling. But only because that was the best Greek Word to describe it. Paul tells us what the purpose is.) Any believer can have a prophecy, being a prophet is not a requirement.

As with all the five fold ministers, any of the knowledge gifts can come into operation. Just because God used you in any of these gifts, does not make you a Prophet, But as the SPIRIT WILLS for the benefit of man.

Word of Wisdom: Future events

Word of Knowledge: events for now or things of the past.

Discerning of spirits: Seeing into the realm of the Spirit, such as seeing one for God's angels that are always around or the operation of some devil which seem to be abundant.

Paul gives the definition of someone that prophesieth.

1Co 14:4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

So, the main purpose for the gift in the new testament is for edification of the Church.

Unlike the Old testament, their are no prophets today adding to the Word of God. The course of this world is already laid out.

Can prophets get something from God about the future? Yes... but so can every believe in the Body of Christ....

Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come.

You may see more of the Word gifts in someone that is in the office of a prophet(Called by God for that specific office.), but the purpose is to edify the church........

There are a lot of goofy self proclaimed prophets out there today. I won't mention names........
Every Thus said the Lord has be in line with something God has already said though.............

Is there an answer to my question in here some where?

There are a lot of goofy self proclaimed prophets out there today. I won't mention names........
Every Thus said the Lord has be in line with something God has already said though.............

I agree and many of them are deceived with all the false teaching and prophecy within the WOF movement.

Copeland himself has a huge list of false prophecies. More than enough to fill a fleet of "garbage" trucks.

 

[Brother Mike]

Answer to Question

Thank you for you post Brother. (I think)

1Co 14:4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

He that Prophesieth Edifies the church!!! I answered your Question.

If your not in a Church environment that does not operate in the gifts a lot then just take my word for it. I also wonder if you read everything I type......ummm...

The main point is the Prophets today are not like the old prophets. The disciples wanted to rain some fire on some folks that did not agree with them. Jesus said you don't know what spirit you are.....I don't fully understand that one. The Holy Ghost never changed, but the office of a Prophet has.


I have operated in most of the Gifts. A lot of times. (Miracles, seeing in the realm of the spirit, interpretation of tongues, all excluded so far.)
I have seen others operate in these. Most of the time it is not as spectacular as some would think.

EXAMPLE: It has been on your heart to go on that mission trip to china with a group your church is supporting. It would take most of your money, and your not really sure China is the place you want to be. However it's on your mind and heart, and just seems to be scratching at you from the inside. Your pretty sure your not going though, as your not in the best position to do so.

God give me a Word of knowledge for you, something I did not even know. God tells me to tell you that your suppose to go on some mission to China. That is all God tells me.

So I go and tell you that God wants you to go on some trip to China. You now know that it was God dealing with you, and you go and get wonderful results.

God has used me like this countless times, one thing must be in place, the person that gets the message must have a witness about it. They already know, but need that extra assurance that God is involved in it.

It also helps them receive from God and gives the Comfort that God had told someone else about a situation they are in.

Another case was in a prayer circle I was in. A new man just joined us that day and yet had to give his life to Jesus. Someone talked him into coming.
I got a word from God. The Lord told me to go and speak to his neck and back to be healed. So, I let go of the hands I was holding and in front of about 20 men I commanded his neck and back to be healed in the Name of Jesus. He was healed instantly.
Latter we found out he had been taking medicine for over 15 years for his back problems. He was now completely free.

The funny thing was this scared him, and he was afraid of me for a few weeks, and had to be talked back into the prayer group. I had to explain to him that I am not special, but God wanted to help. He never even heard of anything like this.

So, just like everything else, abuse of spiritual gifts can be a reproach and hurt. Trying to force them is going to cause error.

As for Brother Copeland, Surely you jest. He is a great man of God.
I will forget the remark about us Word of Faith people.......

God bless you.......
Jesus Is Lord!!! We both agree on that....

 

[jiggyfly]

May I ask where you got this definitions of the Greek words prophetes(prophet) and propheteia (prophecy)?

Mike you still have failed to answer my question.

“Satan conquered Jesus Christ on the cross.” Kenneth Copeland.

“Never,ever,ever go to the Lord and say,”If it be thy will….”Don’t allow such faith destroying words to be spoken from your mouth.”Benny Hinn

“God has to be given permission to work in this earth on behalf of man…Yes!You are in control! So,if man has control.who no longer has it?God.” Fredrick K.Price.

“Man was created on terms of equality with God,and he could stand in God’s presence without any consciousness of inferiority.”Kenneth E.Hagin.

Kenneth Copeland says,”When are we all going to wake up and learn God did not allow the Devil to get on Job.Job allowed the Devil to get on Job….All God did was maintain His confession about that man.He said’that Job is upright in the earth.’But Job,himself said he was not upright in the earth.He said,’Im miserable.My tongue is disobedient.

Other faith teachers such as Hinn and Price attack Job even more viciously.Hinn calls Job a”carnal bad boy”Price calls Job a ”Big Mouth.”

Adam was truly a super-being!He could fly like the birds and swim underwater like a fish.And thats not all.Even without a space suit,Adam could fly through through the universe.In fact,with a single thought he could transport himeslf to the moon!Benny Hinn (from Christianity in crisis)

excerpt from ONDoctrine
Kenneth Copeland exists in, and is accepted as a mainstream Christian by a large segment of the Christian church who have rejected the application of discernment in regards to teachers and leadership. They have substituted "feel good", self-satisfying sermons, emotions and a quest for the next spiritual "experience" as the criteria for acceptance into the Christian fellowship instead of Doctrine, as taught in the Bible, as being the measure of a leader or teacher. As a result, these "Christians" neither know what is Biblically correct or how what is taught in the Bible applies to what they accept in their own lives. As a result, false teaching is the norm instead of the exception.

False prophecies are also the norm in the word of faith movement, however Kenneth Copeland has been somewhat more reserved in that area, apparently preferring not to place himself in the position of having to explain the difficulty when a false prophecy is spoken. However, there are times when Kenneth Copeland waxes bold and presumes to speak a prophetic word from God, and in the process makes a great error. In attempting to play on the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks in the United States, Kenneth Copeland spoke the following regarding those embracing the Muslim religion:

"And there are going to be multiplied millions upon millions, there's going to be close to a billion people that have been trapped in that religion, that over the next few months are gonna to come into the kingdom of God. (cheering) That's gonna happen, you watch and see what I'm telling you. Because its been ... I'm telling you Satan's fat is in the fire he pushed it over the line, and God has moved, and for over a hundred years the United States has been an instrument of judgment in the hand of God. That's one of the reasons we're blessed, amen? I'd like to get in there and walk around a while but I don't have the time but I can tell you this, that thing has come to an end, its over, I'm talking about Islam and every, all that that stands for. That's over with. Now, God is making His move."
Kenneth Copeland, Word of Life Christian Center, Honolulu HI, Dedication Celebration Service, Evening, Dec. 2, 2001
Quote and text file: Sandy Simpson, Deception In The Church - Apologetics Coordination Team - Deception In The Church, counterfeit, revival, apostacy, brownsville, toronto, kenneth copeland, benny hinn, prophecy, anointing, vineyard, gnosticism, manifestation, miracle, false, john arnott, john kilpatrick, paul

It has been more than a "few" months since his prophecy and the promised revival has not happened. Kenneth Copeland proved himself a false prophet according to Deuteronomy 18:20- 22.

Again there is a huge list concerning the false teaching and prophecies of the WOF movement. I can't even think of any words that would describe its gross and putrid state.

 

[Brother Mike]

Sigh............

You want the definition? forgetting What Paul said? Edification. That is where I got my definition. If you want I can post the strongs, but you already have that.........

“Never,ever,ever go to the Lord and say,”If it be thy will….”Don’t allow such faith destroying words to be spoken from your mouth.”Benny Hinn

Well, if God already said something, then no need to ask his will about it.
They were not holding a Healing Meeting in the Garden Brother.

“Man was created on terms of equality with God,and he could stand in God’s presence without any consciousness of inferiority.”Kenneth E.Hagin.

Funny how God said each seed produces after it's kind, We are born from the Word of God, the Word was God........ We are called God's offspring in the book of acts......

Php 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
How convenient to leave out a bunch of scripture to prove a point.

“God has to be given permission to work in this earth on behalf of man…Yes!You are in control! So,if man has control.who no longer has it?God.” Fredrick K.Price.

Ok, so turn you back on God, and get in a bunch of sin... See how much God can do for you then......God has given the earth to man..........God is there for how much place you give him, You decide because according to your faith it is done for you......... let us not be the ones to draw back into unbelief.

Kenneth Copeland says,”When are we all going to wake up and learn God did not allow the Devil to get on Job.Job allowed the Devil to get on Job….All God did was maintain His confession about that man.He said’that Job is upright in the earth.’But Job,himself said he was not upright in the earth.He said,’Im miserable.My tongue is disobedient.

I see you don't understand this one also........... I was thinking about a bible study on it. It would take way to long to explain it here.

Sadly, we hijacked the thread........
Been fun Brother!!!! I am glad that we might agree on something somewhere......... I am sure we will sometime......

God Bless you!!!

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[jiggyfly]

You are right Mike about one thing, we did get off topic. My apologies to the OP.

Mike, I wish you would list the complete Strong's definition of the Greek words prophetes and propheteia and compare it to what you said those two words meant and did not mean.

You said;

The Word prophet or prophecy means to edify. Being a prophet of God has nothing to do with telling the future, and you should not fear them as they are suppose to walk in love toward you, and your father in heaven would be very upset at them if they hurt you.......

Lets put a little light to your statement.

 

[paganmystic]

hi everyone

Hello, wow we went a bit off topic.... lol
All I could find for chastisement is to correct through punishment. This would also include the education, teaching of the Laws and why.

A prophet is a messenger. Therefore a prophecy is a message. The O.T. prophets brought us messages from God (the Word) see http://www.talkjesus.com/evidence-prophecy-facts/23303-do-we-really-know-who-jesus.html

To edify is to build up or fortify one's spirit. Therefore it is build up each other from an emotionally spiritual level Romans 15:2, edification(Strong's N.T. Lexicon 3619) As an example of this which I do often both at home and on line. Is to let others know how blessed I am to have that person join us (or me). Those that hear that in particular are those that are down. I do it because I know I am Spiritually enriched, my trials are no different than any one else's. The strength of my faith however, allows me to know and actually turn them over to the Lord and He gives them back as I can deal with them. For this blessing it is necessary for me to bring others under that same roof under which I stand. When I say necessary, it is a want to do not have to do. Having said that, I also know many will paint me as a dangerous person, right jiggyfly but the bottom line remains our Will has to be God's Will otherwise what we share(or witness to) will be false.

 

[Brother Mike]

paideuō

to train up a child, that is, educate, or (by implication) discipline (by punishment): - chasten (-ise), instruct, learn, teach.

Compare other scriptures on being corrected through the Word.

Prophet: a foreteller (“prophet”); by analogy an inspired speaker; by extension a poet: - prophet.

Like I already said, if someone is speaking prophecy, they are doing so to edify. The other gifts can operate, I am not sure why this is so hard. The Greek Word does not always give us the correct context for a word or term, but the scriptures will give better light.

The ministry of the prophet is to teach and exhort the church. Teaching the word of God so the people can understand. Not the eloquence of speech or the emotions but where sometimes people will look up to the speaker but not to the word of God, teaching in a sense with genuineness, really believing what you are saying so people will take it seriously. Not as an actor. The purpose of their ministry was to edify, to comfort, and to encourage the believers

True Prophet of God will edify the believers
It expresses the strengthening effect of teaching, 1 Cor. 14:3, 5, 12, ; 2 Cor. 12:19; or other ministry, Eph. 4:12, 16, 29

you can read the rest of the article. Notice how they Hate Copeland. Thought you might believe them.......instead.

Untitled

Jesus Is Lord..........