Strange Questions about Christianity?

[B-A-C]

Can you give an example of ''punished'' for using free will?

Gen 2:17; but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die."

Gen 3:2; The woman said to the serpent, "From the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat;
Gen 3:3; but from the fruit of the tree which is in the middle of the garden, God has said, 'You shall not eat from it or touch it, or you will die.'"

Gen 3:6; When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was desirable to make one wise, she took from its fruit and ate; and she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate.

Gen 3:13; Then the LORD God said to the woman, "What is this you have done?" And the woman said, "The serpent deceived me, and I ate."
Gen 3:14; The LORD God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this, Cursed are you more than all cattle, And more than every beast of the field; On your belly you will go, And dust you will eat All the days of your life;
Gen 3:15; And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her seed; He shall bruise you on the head, And you shall bruise him on the heel."
Gen 3:16; To the woman He said, "I will greatly multiply Your pain in childbirth, In pain you will bring forth children; Yet your desire will be for your husband, And he will rule over you."
Gen 3:17; Then to Adam He said, "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat from it'; Cursed is the ground because of you; In toil you will eat of it All the days of your life.
Gen 3:18; "Both thorns and thistles it shall grow for you; And you will eat the plants of the field;
Gen 3:19; By the sweat of your face You will eat bread, Till you return to the ground, Because from it you were taken; For you are dust, And to dust you shall return."

============================================================================

Rom 6:16; Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?

Every single time someone sins, they are exercising free-will.

 

[KingJ]

Gen 2:17; but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die."

Gen 3:2; The woman said to the serpent, "From the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat;
Gen 3:3; but from the fruit of the tree which is in the middle of the garden, God has said, 'You shall not eat from it or touch it, or you will die.'"

Gen 3:6; When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was desirable to make one wise, she took from its fruit and ate; and she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate.

Gen 3:13; Then the LORD God said to the woman, "What is this you have done?" And the woman said, "The serpent deceived me, and I ate."
Gen 3:14; The LORD God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this, Cursed are you more than all cattle, And more than every beast of the field; On your belly you will go, And dust you will eat All the days of your life;
Gen 3:15; And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her seed; He shall bruise you on the head, And you shall bruise him on the heel."
Gen 3:16; To the woman He said, "I will greatly multiply Your pain in childbirth, In pain you will bring forth children; Yet your desire will be for your husband, And he will rule over you."
Gen 3:17; Then to Adam He said, "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat from it'; Cursed is the ground because of you; In toil you will eat of it All the days of your life.
Gen 3:18; "Both thorns and thistles it shall grow for you; And you will eat the plants of the field;
Gen 3:19; By the sweat of your face You will eat bread, Till you return to the ground, Because from it you were taken; For you are dust, And to dust you shall return."

============================================================================

Rom 6:16; Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?

Every single time someone sins, they are exercising free-will.

I agree with you. The reason I asked is because the poster of the op is making the point that "free will" itself is being 'punished'. I want him to give an example of what he means. The only thing being punished are actions from free will.

 

[In God We Trust!]

Where do you get the ''without problems'' part?

If you exercise your free will to slap someone, you will get slapped back. You are creating your own definition of free will.



Where does scripture say God knows everything before it happens? That is an assumption off of scripture that says He is omniscient.

Being able to know all does not default into 'knowing all'. Example: God hates what is evil and is omnipotent (all powerful). Yet evil takes place. What does that tell us about God? It says very clearly that He chooses to limit His omnipotence in order to uphold free will. Free will is a necessary gift to a highly intelligent being like us. Especially necessary if God that wants to be ''good'. Which scripture says He does and is in Psalm 145:17, Psalm 136:, 1 John 1:5 and Job 34:12. Likewise God can and will limit His omniscience if not doing so can be proven to be evil. This is the case with partiality. This is why we read of Peter ''grasping'' a truth he never grasped before in Acts 10:34

Acts 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons.



Scripture also says He does not hear the prayer of sinners John 9:31.

You must be careful of forming ideology on half truths. Otherwise you may think you can jump off heights and expect angels to catch you.



God uses the devil. There is nothing he can do without God opening the doors for him to do it. God placed him on earth.

The problem is that most think he is behind all evil. He is not. Many people are exercising their free will in the space and time Gad has given them to do what is evil.



When you understand the full picture you will understand this to be true.

There will be no ''wicked exercising their free will in heaven'' for all eternity. It is only this period on earth where the wicked have victims in saints, children and animals.

There are many accounts in scripture where God rescued His people or was with them in their suffering. God does not leave nor forsake 'His' children. Ever!

He is indeed our Lord and Saviour.

Um please... You lost me with the "slapping part" & thank you for being a "God Scolar" with such a ghetto persauna! Yeah, free will is free will... It's self explanatory, YOU CAN DO WHAT YOU FREAKIN WANT, AND NOT FEEL GUILTY! OK

 

[In God We Trust!]

Gen 2:17; but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die."

Gen 3:2; The woman said to the serpent, "From the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat;
Gen 3:3; but from the fruit of the tree which is in the middle of the garden, God has said, 'You shall not eat from it or touch it, or you will die.'"

Gen 3:6; When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was desirable to make one wise, she took from its fruit and ate; and she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate.

Gen 3:13; Then the LORD God said to the woman, "What is this you have done?" And the woman said, "The serpent deceived me, and I ate."
Gen 3:14; The LORD God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this, Cursed are you more than all cattle, And more than every beast of the field; On your belly you will go, And dust you will eat All the days of your life;
Gen 3:15; And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her seed; He shall bruise you on the head, And you shall bruise him on the heel."
Gen 3:16; To the woman He said, "I will greatly multiply Your pain in childbirth, In pain you will bring forth children; Yet your desire will be for your husband, And he will rule over you."
Gen 3:17; Then to Adam He said, "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat from it'; Cursed is the ground because of you; In toil you will eat of it All the days of your life.
Gen 3:18; "Both thorns and thistles it shall grow for you; And you will eat the plants of the field;
Gen 3:19; By the sweat of your face You will eat bread, Till you return to the ground, Because from it you were taken; For you are dust, And to dust you shall return."

============================================================================

Rom 6:16; Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?

Every single time someone sins, they are exercising free-will.

EXERCISING "FREE WILL" MEANS YOUR SINNING? What bull you on man, no it does not silly... Free will, and sin are two different things... Thank you for writing a ton though!

 

[In God We Trust!]

I agree with you. The reason I asked is because the poster of the op is making the point that "free will" itself is being 'punished'. I want him to give an example of what he means. The only thing being punished are actions from free will.

Lie! punishment is for the unbelievers in God, its hell... And you don't get told you have free will, then wait to get punished lol... Just absurd "Write alots"

 

[B-A-C]

EXERCISING "FREE WILL" MEANS YOUR SINNING? What bull you on man, no it does not silly... Free will, and sin are two different things... Thank you for writing a ton though!

That's not what was said. I said everytime you sin, you're exercising free will.

You can exercise free will without sinning, indeed everytime you choose NOT to sin, you are exercising free will.

Please don't invert my words, or my meaning.

 

[Rhema]

YOU CAN DO WHAT YOU FREAKIN WANT, AND NOT FEEL GUILTY! OK

You bet... as long as it's not sin.

But one should make the distinction between guilt feelings and true guilt.

Rhema



Lester Frank Sumrall
Making it work for you!: The will the potent force of the universe

Amazon.com

 

[Rhema]

Free will, and sin are two different things...

(Sorry, I missed this at first.)

Indeed they are two different things. One may use his free will to sin or not to sin.

Rhema

 

[joestue]

The greater the faith, the greater the testing. From what we read in the book of Job, his faith was astounding in God and required astounding testing.

i don't think that is how it works

Job had somethings God had to teach him.

we should strive to learn from the mistakes of others.

 

[KingJ]

Lie! punishment is for the unbelievers in God, its hell... And you don't get told you have free will, then wait to get punished lol... Just absurd "Write alots"

You are mixing things and not grasping scriptures given. In hell, it is hilarious / absurd / insane to think God's ''justness'' ends. As many do. According to Job in Job 34:12 that should be 'unthinkable'. Meditate on this fact.

As such, in hell, you can expect to be punished every time you sin Rom 2:6. Every time you exercise your free will to be evil.

You have painted a picture of hell in your mind that is unscriptural. As many do on the topic.

Free will stops when God stops being just. That will never happen. So expect true free will in hell, heaven and earth.

----------------------------------------

You are coming across as a young atheist that thinks a discussion forum is a message board. Try take part in the discussion.

If someone takes the effort to properly reply to your post, don't just type ''lie''. Quote a passage and explain yourself with scripture. Otherwise you come off like a troll.

 

[KingJ]

YOU CAN DO WHAT YOU FREAKIN WANT, AND NOT FEEL GUILTY! OK

Wicked people of Sodom revelled in their sin. So you are correct. Wicked people can do wicked things and not feel guilty.

You don't seem to understand that punishment for wicked acts is a separate topic to free will.

 

[KingJ]

Lie! punishment is for the unbelievers in God, its hell..

Unbelief is a fairly complex sin. It is not as simple as believing person A over person B. Nobody goes to hell because they were ''unlucky'' in that they chose the ''wrong'' religion.

The sin of unbelief is tied at the hip to the sin of rejecting and cursing the Holy Spirit. It takes a decision from an evil heart to stop believing in God and listening to the Holy Spirit.

Heb 3:12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God.

It is not as simple as god A over god B. There is a good God only. Rejecting God is rejecting what is good and right.

As John 3:19 explains, people reject Jesus because they love wickedness.

John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

This is why scripture says that religion undefiled before God is helping widows and orphans James 1:27. Repentant sinners He will not despise Psalm 51:17.

Therefore, you don't go to heaven because you say magical words '''I accept Christian God'' or go to hell because you do not say the magical words. Matt 7:22-23 explains that not all who say ''my Lord, my Lord'' will be in heaven.

 

[In God We Trust!]

You are mixing things and not grasping scriptures given. In hell, it is hilarious / absurd / insane to think God's ''justness'' ends. As many do. According to Job in Job 34:12 that should be 'unthinkable'. Meditate on this fact.

As such, in hell, you can expect to be punished every time you sin Rom 2:6. Every time you exercise your free will to be evil.

You have painted a picture of hell in your mind that is unscriptural. As many do on the topic.

Free will stops when God stops being just. That will never happen. So expect true free will in hell, heaven and earth.

----------------------------------------

You are coming across as a young atheist that thinks a discussion forum is a message board. Try take part in the discussion.

If someone takes the effort to properly reply to your post, don't just type ''lie''. Quote a passage and explain yourself with scripture. Otherwise you come off like a troll.

Hey, I wasn't trying to "troll" sir, just got a little carried away with what I was saying... But, one thing that kind of bothers me is you keep on referring to me and saying "in hell" this, and "in hell" that! Please don't plan on me going to hell (that defeates the reason why I because a Christian)! I'm saved, and just because a Christian doesn't doesn't talk about scriptures and stuff in the way you want, or act accordingly to the way YOU feel we should act, doesn't mean that hell is AWAITING!

 

[KingJ]

Hey, I wasn't trying to "troll" sir, just got a little carried away with what I was saying... But, one thing that kind of bothers me is you keep on referring to me and saying "in hell" this, and "in hell" that! Please don't plan on me going to hell (that defeates the reason why I because a Christian)! I'm saved, and just because a Christian doesn't doesn't talk about scriptures and stuff in the way you want, or act accordingly to the way YOU feel we should act, doesn't mean that hell is AWAITING!

Sure, it is very easy to talk past each other and assume someone is trolling when they not.

I discuss a lot with atheists on atheist forums. I can sometimes be too aggressive as a result. They make that same point about unbelief. As though it is a simple A or B choice. Does my post 32 make sense to you?

 

[brighthouse98]

In God we Trust, I Hope this will help you answer your questions. Let's look at a bit at Job, God wanted to show Job that he was not as perfect as he thought he was!! Elihu who waited to speak because he was the youngest (Job 32:4) told Job the hard-core truth! (Job34:34-37!!) God knows the result; man must learn to reach God's result!

The Lord is a teacher, among other things. Another example of this is found in (Isaiah38:1) The Lord knew, but Hezekiah had to learn God's will, and the Lord spoke to move Hezekiah to perform God's will for him!! Which we see in (Isaiah 38:2-7) The point of free will, The Lord is willing teach us but are we willing to learn from his teaching?

The Lord knows who will learn and who will not, but the Lord is fair and holds no greater love for one than another (Acts 10:34 and romans 2:11) We have the right to accept his teaching or not, but if not even as there is a price to pay for acceptation there is also one for rejecting his teaching. This choice the Lord has allowed us to make from our own free will.

Now the Lord wants ALL to be saved (1 Tim 2:4-6) but will they?? He desires this, he cannot will it. Because if he willed it then all would have to be saved no matter what and this would take our will out of the picture. Hope this helps!! Blessing always!!

 

[Butch5]

Hello, I have some questions that have been upsetting to me for a while that I kept inside, and felt scared to talk about... O.k. here we go...

Christianity states that we have free will, but then on the other hand, it also states that we are suppose to do the things that God wants I.E. no sinning, and live a life that "pleases God" amongst other things...
So what's "free will" then, and its kind of tricky because to most of us "free will" insinuates the ability to do what we want right? Without problems!

Another thing is, the story of Job! A kind of sad story, because we have a God that says he knows everything before it happenes, but in Jobs case, God told Satan it was OK to harm Job, but not kill him, because Satan was (I guess) convincing God, that Job wasn't a TRUE SERVANT!
So how could that happen when he knows everything?

Last but not least, I was told God tells us he will never forsake us, well have you ever encountered, or heard of God actually forsaking people? Not answering prayers when people call out for him, or innocent people praying to God and still getting slaughtered, killed and abused? People usually say God just lets things happen but, its still eerie to say at the least.

Do you realize the times we are in with Satan having so much power, and ability to kill, harm, and destroy those things had been foretold and understood before they happened? What does that mean, if God knew about these horrible things happening, and didn't stop them?
Hes our "Lord and Savior"!

Man does have free will. we can choose to follow or not follow. Either decision has consequences.

I'm not sure God knows what will happen before it happens. That would need to be shown from Scripture.

The statement that God will never forsake us is based on our continuance in the Covenant and obedience. Paul quotes it and it comes from the book of Joshua.

3 Every place that the sole of your foot shall tread upon, that have I given unto you, as I said unto Moses. 4 From the wilderness and this Lebanon even unto the great river, the river Euphrates, all the land of the Hittites, and unto the great sea toward the going down of the sun, shall be your coast. 5 There shall not any man be able to stand before thee all the days of thy life: as I was with Moses, so I will be with thee: I will not fail thee, nor forsake thee. 6 Be strong and of a good courage: for unto this people shalt thou divide for an inheritance the land, which I sware unto their fathers to give them. 7 Only be thou strong and very courageous, that thou mayest observe to do according to all the law, which Moses my servant commanded thee: turn not from it to the right hand or to the left, that thou mayest prosper whithersoever thou goest. 8 This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success. 9 Have not I commanded thee? Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the LORD thy God is with thee whithersoever thou goest.

The Holy Bible: King James Version, Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version. (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2009), Jos 1:3–9.

Notice the condition. Only be strong, observe all of the Law of Moses and don't turn from it. That's the condition. If he and the people kept that God would never leave nor forsake them. Did they keep it? No. What happened?

If you read Joshua 6-8 you'll see that when God gave Jericho into the hands of the Israelites, He told them not to take any of the accursed things. One man did and when they went to conquer AI they were defeated. When Joshua asks God why, God tells him that Israel has sinned. They had taken of the accursed things. Because they did that God wasn't with them when they went into AI. God told Joshua that He would no longer be with him until he removed the accursed thing from Israel.

So, that statement that Paul quotes is not an unconditional statement. He is alluding back to what happened in the book of Joshua. Remember, he is writing to the Hebrews. They would know what happened at AI and why it happened.