The 144,000 “firstfruits” of Israel have already been redeemed!

[StewardoftheMystery]

There are some denominations and doctrines of men out there that like to fancy themselves as the 144,000 firstfruits of Israel. But the words of God say they are already redeemed from the earth.

Revelation 14:1-4​

​

14 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.​

2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.”

Many people miss this resurrection of the “firstfruits” of Israel when Jesus was resurrected….

Matthew 27:50-53​

50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.​

51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”

The timing of the harvest of the firstfruits of Israel is also shown in the law right after the Passover lamb ( Christ) was killed, which happened before Pentecost ( 7X7 sabbaths.) 49 days

Leviticus 23:10-16​

King James Version​

10 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye be come into the land which I give unto you, and shall reap the harvest thereof, then ye shall bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest unto the priest:
11 And he shall wave the sheaf before the Lord, to be accepted for you: on the morrow after the sabbath the priest shall wave it.
12 And ye shall offer that day when ye wave the sheaf an he lamb without blemish of the first year for a burnt offering unto the Lord.
13 And the meat offering thereof shall be two tenth deals of fine flour mingled with oil, an offering made by fire unto the Lord for a sweet savour: and the drink offering thereof shall be of wine, the fourth part of an hin.
14 And ye shall eat neither bread, nor parched corn, nor green ears, until the selfsame day that ye have brought an offering unto your God: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations in all your dwellings.
15 And ye shall count unto you from the morrow after the sabbath, from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering; seven sabbaths shall be complete:
16 Even unto the morrow after the seventh sabbath shall ye number fifty days; and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto the Lord.”(=Pentecost)

The “new meat” offering mentioned there is the prophecy of the offering of the Gentiles which began at Pentecost. (Day after 7th Sabbath)

Jesus is shown as the firstborn from the dead in Colossians 1:18

But we are also shown a “church of the firstborn” in Hebrews 12:22-23.
22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,”

This church of the firstborn from the dead in heaven includes those ressurected saints, being the firstfruits of Israel.

Notice Paul mentions mount Sion is the location of this church of the firstborn, and these spirits of just men made perfect. Mount Sion is where we also see Jesus with 144,000 in Revelation chapter 14.

Also notice Paul mentions in Hebrews 12:1. A great cloud of witnesses. This cloud of witnesses is what ascended into heaven with Jesus.

Acts 1:9-11​

9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.”

That cloud represents the saints of the Lord ascending with Jesus.

This same cloud of saints is also prophesied to come with Jesus at his second coming.

Revelation 1:7
Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Mark 13:26
And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

Jude 1:14
And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

1 Thessalonians 3:13
To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

Now to those who deny these 144,000 saints were already ressurected and redeemed from the earth, as written. Then who are all these saints (clouds) that are coming with the Lord at his second coming?

Think about it.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Now to those who deny these 144,000 saints were already ressurected and redeemed from the earth, as written. Then who are all these saints (clouds) that are coming with the Lord at his second coming?

Think about it.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. First, those 144,000 are all Israelites, 12,000 from each tribe, that's a definitive number in contrast to an innumerable "multitude". You and I are neither the 144,000 nor the "cloud", but the great multitude. Second, by biblical standard, only men above 20 years old at military age are counted (Num. 1:2-4), which means it would be way more than 144,000 redeemed Israelites if children, women and elders are also considered.

 

[Bill]

There are some denominations and doctrines of men out there that like to fancy themselves as the 144,000 firstfruits of Israel. But the words of God say they are already redeemed from the earth.

Revelation 14:1-4​

​

14 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.​

2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.”

Many people miss this resurrection of the “firstfruits” of Israel when Jesus was resurrected….

Matthew 27:50-53​

50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.​

51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”

The timing of the harvest of the firstfruits of Israel is also shown in the law right after the Passover lamb ( Christ) was killed, which happened before Pentecost ( 7X7 sabbaths.) 49 days

Leviticus 23:10-16​

King James Version​

10 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye be come into the land which I give unto you, and shall reap the harvest thereof, then ye shall bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest unto the priest:
11 And he shall wave the sheaf before the Lord, to be accepted for you: on the morrow after the sabbath the priest shall wave it.
12 And ye shall offer that day when ye wave the sheaf an he lamb without blemish of the first year for a burnt offering unto the Lord.
13 And the meat offering thereof shall be two tenth deals of fine flour mingled with oil, an offering made by fire unto the Lord for a sweet savour: and the drink offering thereof shall be of wine, the fourth part of an hin.
14 And ye shall eat neither bread, nor parched corn, nor green ears, until the selfsame day that ye have brought an offering unto your God: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations in all your dwellings.
15 And ye shall count unto you from the morrow after the sabbath, from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering; seven sabbaths shall be complete:
16 Even unto the morrow after the seventh sabbath shall ye number fifty days; and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto the Lord.”(=Pentecost)

The “new meat” offering mentioned there is the prophecy of the offering of the Gentiles which began at Pentecost. (Day after 7th Sabbath)

Jesus is shown as the firstborn from the dead in Colossians 1:18

But we are also shown a “church of the firstborn” in Hebrews 12:22-23.
22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,”

This church of the firstborn from the dead in heaven includes those ressurected saints, being the firstfruits of Israel.

Notice Paul mentions mount Sion is the location of this church of the firstborn, and these spirits of just men made perfect. Mount Sion is where we also see Jesus with 144,000 in Revelation chapter 14.

Also notice Paul mentions in Hebrews 12:1. A great cloud of witnesses. This cloud of witnesses is what ascended into heaven with Jesus.

Acts 1:9-11​

9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.”

That cloud represents the saints of the Lord ascending with Jesus.

This same cloud of saints is also prophesied to come with Jesus at his second coming.

Revelation 1:7
Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Mark 13:26
And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

Jude 1:14
And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

1 Thessalonians 3:13
To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

Now to those who deny these 144,000 saints were already ressurected and redeemed from the earth, as written. Then who are all these saints (clouds) that are coming with the Lord at his second coming?

Think about it.

The 144,000 are still being chosen, even at this late hour. They are the ones who will witness to the world , in the coming years while the world is given to the darkness

 

[Bill]

I wouldn't be so sure about that. First, those 144,000 are all Israelites, 12,000 from each tribe, that's a definitive number in contrast to an innumerable "multitude". You and I are neither the 144,000 nor the "cloud", but the great multitude. Second, by biblical standard, only men above 20 years old at military age are counted (Num. 1:2-4), which means it would be way more than 144,000 redeemed Israelites if children, women and elders are also considered.

In the scripture it is written, a true Jew is one whose heart is Circumcised.

We are the adopted children of God.

Those 144,000, are not Jews by birth. They are those whose hearts are Circumcised

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

…by biblical standard, only men above 20 years old at military age are counted (Num. 1:2-4), which means it would be way more than 144,000 redeemed Israelites if children, women and elders are also considered.

Concerning those men of war, a portion of the spoils of war (even persons) were chosen from both the men of wars portion and from the congregations portion to be given to the service of the priesthood. I believe this is a “similitude” of how the spoils were to be distributed.

1,000 from each tribe was chosen to go to war…

Numbers 31:4
Of every tribe a thousand, throughout all the tribes of Israel, shall ye send to the war.

Numbers 31:5
So there were delivered out of the thousands of Israel, a thousand of every tribe, twelve thousand armed for war.

And the spoils of war (even persons) was divided in this manner….

Numbers 31:25-30​

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King James Version​

​

​

25 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,
26 Take the sum of the prey that was taken, both of man and of beast, thou, and Eleazar the priest, and the chief fathers of the congregation:
27 And divide the prey into two parts; between them that took the war upon them, who went out to battle, and between all the congregation:
28 And levy a tribute unto the Lord of the men of war which went out to battle: one soul of five hundred, both of the persons, and of the beeves, and of the asses, and of the sheep:
29 Take it of their half, and give it unto Eleazar the priest, for an heave offering of the Lord.
30 And of the children of Israel's half, thou shalt take one portion of fifty, of the persons, of the beeves, of the asses, and of the flocks, of all manner of beasts, and give them unto the Levites, which keep the charge of the tabernacle of the Lord.”

The prophecy of dividing the spoils…

Isaiah 53:12
Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.”

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

The 144,000 are still being chosen, even at this late hour. They are the ones who will witness to the world , in the coming years while the world is given to the darkness

The 144,000 seen on mount Sion with Jesus in Rev. 14 are called the “firstfruits” meaning they were “the first” to be harvested ( resurrected) when Jesus was resurrected.

But what many may not know is, that in the law the firstborn son was to receive a “double portion” of the inheritance.

God called Israel his firstborn son…

Exodus 4:22
And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the Lord, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:

 

[Bill]

The 144,000 seen on mount Sion with Jesus in Rev. 14 are called the “firstfruits” meaning they were “the first” to be harvested ( resurrected) when Jesus was resurrected.

But what many may not know is, that in the law the firstborn son was to receive a “double portion” of the inheritance.

God called Israel his firstborn son…

Exodus 4:22
And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the Lord, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:
[/QUOTEbut there is a huge difference between people known as Jews , and the Jews whose hearts are circumcised " the True Jew " and i feel the true Jew is the one scripture is speaking of , even where it speaks of the ' First Fruits ' .

The fisrt shall be last and the last shall be first

And when it comes to time , we must remember time has no meaning to God, who created it for us

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

Bill said: “And when it comes to time , we must remember time has no meaning to God,”



Sure it does Bill…..

Ecclesiastes 3:1
To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:

Ecclesiastes 3:17
I said in mine heart, God shall judge the righteous and the wicked: for there is a time there for every purpose and for every work.

Ecclesiastes 8:6
Because to every purpose there is time and judgment, therefore the misery of man is great upon him.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

In the scripture it is written, a true Jew is one whose heart is Circumcised.

We are the adopted children of God.

Those 144,000, are not Jews by birth. They are those whose hearts are Circumcised

We the adopted children of God would be long gone by then. Those twelve tribes were specifically named for a reason. Just because a gentile believer is circumcised in the heart doesn't mean he's automatically assigned to one certain tribe or another. No Scripture stated or implied that.

 

[Bill]

Bill said: “And when it comes to time , we must remember time has no meaning to God,”



Sure it does Bill…..

Ecclesiastes 3:1
To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:

Ecclesiastes 3:17
I said in mine heart, God shall judge the righteous and the wicked: for there is a time there for every purpose and for every work.

Ecclesiastes 8:6
Because to every purpose there is time and judgment, therefore the misery of man is great upon him.

Well I can see that comment went clean over your head.

Time and space have no meaning when it comes to God let me see if I can clarify that for you. Distance from the farthest point in the universe to hear is an instant to God less than an instant he's there at both places at the same time.

God is the Alpha and the Omega what is our past and our future is all one in God.

God created time for us just like he created the past in the future for us as well as distance or traveling all these things are for us and we have an understanding of that but we do not have an understanding of God as far as past present future as one

 

[Bill]

We the adopted children of God would be long gone by then. Those twelve tribes were specifically named for a reason. Just because a gentile believer is circumcised in the heart doesn't mean he's automatically assigned to one certain tribe or another. No Scripture stated or implied that.

Please don't make me laugh. What will be and what is, is about to take place.

We are so close to the breaking of The Sixth Seal, or the great day of the Lord as it's also known, it would shock you to know.

Revelations will take place within our lifetime, and it's already here.

Have you ever read the last line in the breaking of the six seal where it states they are crying" run and hide for the great day of the Lord Has Come and who can stand against it "

You see no one will really know where they are in Revelations until that time all these preachers that try to tell us where we are, are full of crap . the truth is in the breaking of The Sixth Seal

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

Time and space have no meaning when it comes to God

Show me where God said that.

 

[Bill]

Show me where God said that.

You've read it yourself a million times in the beginning God created.

God created time, God created space distance everything do you think he really needs all that do you think God needs time when he always was and always will be.

A little off the subject, Which is greater finding everything in the scripture or having faith

Jesus refers to himself as the Cornerstone, why then do we have to prove everything with the scripture. I thought everyone here was all about faith and not having to consort to proving everything all the time.

At least that's what you all tell me that you're all about faith.
So let's see if you can understand what I'm trying to tell you without actually having word for word proof in the scripture because all the scripture is is a guide. A guide of how to use your faith it's not the end all. Jesus said that others would come and even do even greater things than I have done. And the apostles even stated that there was so much to be written down they only wrote down some of what Jesus did not all of what Jesus did or said. So why do we keep going back to the scripture to confirm everything that is said one way or the other why not try stepping out in your faith

 

[Bill]

I know that in many churches for the longest of time you have been taught to go verse by verse through every little detail of the scripture. But the scripture was never meant to be read that way. The scripture itself for the most part is like a love letter, from God to us.

When you go to buy a candy bar and eat it do you pick it apart to find every single individual ingredient that's in it, I doubt it. So why then would you do the same thing with the scripture.

Certainly there are standout passages in the scripture but for the most part the scripture is meant to be read in paragraph form not individual lines because you're leaving out things that are really meant to be added to that line and there's so much more that is missed because of the line item reading that is done.

As an example the progression of faith and The Parables that are in Matthew the way that Matthew is written throughout the parables you read the parable and then you read the example of it even though you don't realize you're reading the example of it because people are demonstrating different forms of faith.

The man who is possessed he can't speak but he hears Jesus speaking and he comes out of the Catacombs or comes out of the caves he's demon possessed and the demons won't let him speak and yet here he comes to Jesus that is a level of Faith he knows he recognizes that Jesus has something over the demons. It is like the least amount of faith.

And you have the Centurion who astounds Jesus with his words virtually the greatest amount of faith.

And the woman who reaches out to touch Jesus in Jesus feels the power go out of him and he searches for the woman the woman is thinking all I have to do is touch him and I will be healed and she was that too is a great amount of faith. So when you read the book of Matthew you'll understand the progression of each of the different stories you have the parables and you have the progression from the least to the greatest amount of faith that is shown by each of the examples that are shown there.

But unless you read these things in this manner you'll never understand you'll never even see it because you're so caught up into this one line at a time teaching

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Please don't make me laugh. What will be and what is, is about to take place.

We are so close to the breaking of The Sixth Seal, or the great day of the Lord as it's also known, it would shock you to know.

Revelations will take place within our lifetime, and it's already here.

Have you ever read the last line in the breaking of the six seal where it states they are crying" run and hide for the great day of the Lord Has Come and who can stand against it "

You see no one will really know where they are in Revelations until that time all these preachers that try to tell us where we are, are full of crap . the truth is in the breaking of The Sixth Seal

Man, the four horsemen judgements haven’t taken place yet, it would be something like WWIII, which is very close. When I said we’ll be long gone, I was referring to the fourth and the fifth seals, in which all Christians will be dead and their souls crying out for vengeance. You can’t just ignore that and jump straight to the 6th seal.

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

Which is greater finding everything in the scripture or having faith

Jesus refers to himself as the Cornerstone, why then do we have to prove everything with the scripture. I thought everyone here was all about faith and not having to consort to proving everything all the time.

At least that's what you all tell me that you're all about faith.
So let's see if you can understand what I'm trying to tell you without actually having word for word proof in the scripture because all the scripture is is a guide. A guide of how to use your faith it's not the end all. Jesus said that others would come and even do even greater things than I have done. And the apostles even stated that there was so much to be written down they only wrote down some of what Jesus did not all of what Jesus did or said. So why do we keep going back to the scripture to confirm everything that is said one way or the other why not try stepping out in your faith

My faith is in the Word (and words) of God, not in the opinions of men.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

My faith is in the Word (and words) of God, not in the opinions of men.

Only if you understand the original Hebrew and Greek perfectly.

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

Only if you understand the original Hebrew and Greek perfectly.

I received Him in English.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

I received Him in English.

Then what’s perceived as words of God is mostly opinions of man, especially if you read newer bible translations.

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

Then what’s perceived as words of God is mostly opinions of man, especially if you read newer bible translations.

I received the Living Word of God, He has a greater witness than that of man.