the church is under attack, singing banned yes here in USA

[Trevor]

Question; Why do Christian's think God would not need to shake the worldly church?

Sadly, it seems, some are happy for the church to be shaken by God, so long as it is not theirs!

We do not have a church, the only church is the ekklesia, born again from above believers, from all countries on earth.

When will the Christian's on earth stop looking at the church from the four walls they worship in, and see the church, the ekklesia, from the Throne on high, as our Lord sees it looking down on His True Church.

Lord your ekklesia is in pieces, forgive us our sins we pray, whether through our own fault or from taken what is taught to us as right and not coming to you and checking for ourselves, we must ensure, in all things, especially your church, your ekklesia, that we are right with you and our Father in heaven.

Lord their are so many errors in your church, we are truly sorry, Lord shake your church we pray, shake out all unGodliness, shake out all sinfulness, shake off all dust and cobwebs on your children, shake out everything not acceptable in your eyes. Bind your ekklesia together Lord, build up your Spiritual Stones you are a Master Craftsman Lord, you Lord are the corner stone of our faith, you Lord are the headstone bringing us to the Father through you, you Lord are the key stone, you are the Rock we stand on,

Bless your True Church Lord, your bride, reveal the Truth so your servants in Christ, empower your children to go forth in Your Holy Name, sharing the Gospel, baptising in the Name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, and preaching forgiveness of sin through you and your blood Lord.

Empower your children Lord with the Holy Spirit to speak courageously in Your Name and reveal any wrongs to those who think they are saved and are not, and to speak out in Love and reveal any wrongs in the Church today which are not in Your Word.

Lord we know time is short, we know you are coming soon, lay on your children's hearts all these things we pray. Take us and use us to the Father's Glory through you. In Jesus Mighty and Most Precious Name we pray. Amen

Paul, I say Amen to your post, However I don't believe we can change the fallen church. We are called to come out from among them! We are living stones, and need to find our brethren and fellowship with them. Only when the Spirit witnesses that a person is a fellow believer should we accept them, this way we will end up with a purified temple and move in power. bless you bro.

 

[Hekuran]

I don't believe we can change the fallen church. We are called to come out from among them!

I can't think of anywhere in the Bible where anyone is advised to leave a church. Some of the fellowships were in a bad state -- see the letters to the Corinthians or the messages to the churches at the beginning of the Revelation. But the message is never to leave, it's always to reform.

1 John 2:19 says " They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us."

 

[Brother-Paul]

Paul, I say Amen to your post, However I don't believe we can change the fallen church. We are called to come out from among them! We are living stones, and need to find our brethren and fellowship with them. Only when the Spirit witnesses that a person is a fellow believer should we accept them, this way we will end up with a purified temple and move in power. bless you bro.

Bless you brother,

We cannot change the fan church, but we can ensure we as spiritual stones in the true ekklesia are practicing righteousness, always aiming to be what our Lord wants from us.

We also have a Biblical, scriptural responsibility to point out any wrongs, anything against scripture, but to do it in love.

I also feel if something is not right with God, especially the church, this should be made known to all who are or think they are saved, this includes to pastors/ministers whatever each denomination chooses to call them.

We also, I believe brother, have a God given right to pray for those in error, and to pray against the errors in Jesus Name, if something is not of God it is of the devil.

Now we can make clear the errors, we know faith comes by hearing, but if they have closed ears they will not hear The Truth no matter how loud it is spoken. That does not and should not stop us from sharing The Truth and pointing out the errors, no no no, we should point out the errors, we must point out the errors, we should always try, and pray, pray, pray.

In Jesus Name we should pray. AMEN

 

[Nicola Jane]

Question; Why do Christian's think God would not need to shake the worldly church?

Sadly, it seems, some are happy for the church to be shaken by God, so long as it is not theirs!

We do not have a church, the only church is the ekklesia, born again from above believers, from all countries on earth.

When will the Christian's on earth stop looking at the church from the four walls they worship in, and see the church, the ekklesia, from the Throne on high, as our Lord sees it looking down on His True Church.

Lord your ekklesia is in pieces, forgive us our sins we pray, whether through our own fault or from taken what is taught to us as right and not coming to you and checking for ourselves, we must ensure, in all things, especially your church, your ekklesia, that we are right with you and our Father in heaven.

Lord their are so many errors in your church, we are truly sorry, Lord shake your church we pray, shake out all unGodliness, shake out all sinfulness, shake off all dust and cobwebs on your children, shake out everything not acceptable in your eyes. Bind your ekklesia together Lord, build up your Spiritual Stones you are a Master Craftsman Lord, you Lord are the corner stone of our faith, you Lord are the headstone bringing us to the Father through you, you Lord are the key stone, you are the Rock we stand on,

Bless your True Church Lord, your bride, reveal the Truth so your servants in Christ, empower your children to go forth in Your Holy Name, sharing the Gospel, baptising in the Name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, and preaching forgiveness of sin through you and your blood Lord.

Empower your children Lord with the Holy Spirit to speak courageously in Your Name and reveal any wrongs to those who think they are saved and are not, and to speak out in Love and reveal any wrongs in the Church today which are not in Your Word.

Lord we know time is short, we know you are coming soon, lay on your children's hearts all these things we pray. Take us and use us to the Father's Glory through you. In Jesus Mighty and Most Precious Name we pray. Amen

AMEN !!!!

 

[Brother-Paul]

Paul, I say Amen to your post, However I don't believe we can change the fallen church. We are called to come out from among them! We are living stones, and need to find our brethren and fellowship with them. Only when the Spirit witnesses that a person is a fellow believer should we accept them, this way we will end up with a purified temple and move in power. bless you bro.

Greetings again Trevor,

We are called into the ekklesia, the one True Church, but out of the institutionalised church.

The ekklesia does not have the devil in it, only those made righteous and practicing righteousness.

The institutionalised church, what ever denomination they choose to call themselves, always has the devil in their congregation. Yes there are saved souls but there are also unsaved souls, any soul not born again from above has the devil as his father. The devil is sat amongst them laughing, in many cases listening to the softly, softly, cotton wool sermons. Hovering over scripture like saying 'I want to tell you a story' and that is what the congregation gets, a popular scripture, heard before in their rotary of, enough to keep people in the pews, readings. Never expounded, never hammered home, never a plead, listen this is life or death, it is eternal, listen, not john 3:1-7, but John 3:1-21 give it all, in all its fulness, repeat, keep knocking on their hearts for Jesus.

But if a minister is not born again, maybe that is part of the issue. There are some good speakers, academic, caring people, but if they are not regenerated from about, the are speakers from a book, not preachers from The Word.

Bless you my friend

 

[Trevor]

I can't think of anywhere in the Bible where anyone is advised to leave a church. Some of the fellowships were in a bad state -- see the letters to the Corinthians or the messages to the churches at the beginning of the Revelation. But the message is never to leave, it's always to reform.

1 John 2:19 says " They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us."

I think the church spoken of in John Hekuran, was far removed from the churches of our time. In those times many churches met in secret for fear of persecution. Today many churches no longer believe the truth at all. However the words spoken in John do stand, the people who leave do not belong in the churches they leave. The question that has to be asked is: Are the people who are leaving in tune with God, or the people remaining?

 

[Brother-Paul]

I think the church spoken of in John Hekuran, was far removed from the churches of our time. In those times many churches met in secret for fear of persecution. Today many churches no longer believe the truth at all. However the words spoken in John do stand, the people who leave do not belong in the churches they leave. The question that has to be asked is: Are the people who are leaving in tune with God, or the people remaining?

The churches today are not like the early churches, they have for hundreds of years through the RCC had buildings for worship, kuriakon's.

From 300 AD, from Constantine, the church has been linked to government, the early church was not.

The churches today (places of worship) consist of saved souls and lost souls, but they all think they are part of the church, they all think they are saved and will go to heaven, they also become members of the church/denomination. None of which saves them. The early church on the other hand, came together in each others homes to worship, they were born again souls, not a mixture of saved and unsaved. Yes, it is true as you say brother they met in secret but I feel that hides a Truth, they were living stones, they were saved souls. The devil got a seat in the places built for worship once the church was linked to the government and opened their doors to all souls, lost or saved. It wasn't like that in the beginning of the church.

Also the true churches, the ekklesia, were a community of believers...

Acts 2:44-47 (NKJV)
Now all who believed were together, and had all things in common,

and sold their possessions and goods, and divided them among all, as anyone had need.

So continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they ate their food with gladness and simplicity of heart,

praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily those who were being saved.

Do any of these things reflect the church today?

 

[Hekuran]

Any significant failing you can find in the church today you can find mirrored somewhere in the new testament. There's nothing new under the sun in that respect. Profit-seeking, sexual immorality, false teachers, infighting, personality cults, chaotic worship, hardness of heart, cosying with other religions, lukewarm faith, it's all there in the Bible.

And yet, the apostles never counsel anyone to leave. What is it about the church today that warrants the faithful leaving it?

 

[Hekuran]

The early church on the other hand, came together in each others homes to worship, they were born again souls, not a mixture of saved and unsaved.

The parable of the tares and the wheat indicates that from very early on, the church was a mixed bag of believers and unbelievers. The status of Annanias and Saphira before God is questionable at best, surely?

 

[Brother-Paul]

Any significant failing you can find in the church today you can find mirrored somewhere in the new testament. There's nothing new under the sun in that respect. Profit-seeking, sexual immorality, false teachers, infighting, personality cults, chaotic worship, hardness of heart, cosying with other religions, lukewarm faith, it's all there in the Bible.

And yet, the apostles never counsel anyone to leave. What is it about the church today that warrants the faithful leaving it?

The falling away

 

[Trevor]

Any significant failing you can find in the church today you can find mirrored somewhere in the new testament. There's nothing new under the sun in that respect. Profit-seeking, sexual immorality, false teachers, infighting, personality cults, chaotic worship, hardness of heart, cosying with other religions, lukewarm faith, it's all there in the Bible.

And yet, the apostles never counsel anyone to leave. What is it about the church today that warrants the faithful leaving it?

If we believe in the Word of God, we have to believe what it says. I Corinthians 12:38 "If he ignores this, he himself will be ignored." In this chapter Paul is calling for women to remain silent in the churches, he quotes the law and insists that what he is writing is the Lords command. He then goes on to say what is written above in yellow. In many churches today, women are in positions of authority, this goes against the authority of Paul and the command of God and I believe that the result of this, is the Spirit of God has left the churches where this practice is being condoned, they are being ignored. If anyone has contention with this, then they are denying the Word of God.

 

[Brother-Paul]

I was looking for something when this came up before me, I think it is important and worth sharing based on our discussions.

If we ignore God's commands, He will withdraw himself from us, from our fellowship group. Trevor confirmed...

If we believe in the Word of God, we have to believe what it says. I Corinthians 12:38 "If he ignores this, he himself will be ignored."

Jeremiah 11:14 – God Stops Listening to Prayers

“Therefore do not pray for this people, or lift up a cry or prayer on their behalf, for I will not listen when they call to me in the time of their trouble.”

Israel has fallen into paganism, idolatry and rampant polytheism. In his anger, God rightly says that, “the inhabitants of Jerusalem will go and cry to the gods to whom they make offerings, but they cannot save them in the time of their trouble” (11:12). Therefore, in an ironic twist, God decrees that he will act like the false gods and worthless idols by, likewise, not listening to the prayers of his people. Even though the prayers are coming from the people God once called, “a green olive tree, beautiful with good fruit” (11:16), and a nation he planted himself (11:17), God promises that he will not listen to their prayers. God wrapped himself with a cloud so that no prayer could pass through (Lam. 3:44). God repeats this idea in Zechariah 7:13: “As I called, and they would not hear, so they called, and I would not hear.” This is an extreme example of God becoming absent in prayer.

Ezekiel 5:11 – God Leaves the Temple
“Therefore, as I live, declares the Lord God, surely, because you have defiled my sanctuary with all your detestable things and with all your abominations, therefore I will withdraw.”

The temple was the one place God had chosen to dwell with the people of Israel. But Israel broke their covenant with God due to their sin and idolatry. Therefore, God promises upon his own existence that he is leaving the temple. His presence will withdraw. Because of the promises of God, Israel thought they could tie God’s presence down and live however they wanted. The liberty they took with God’s presence, led to God’s absence.

Psalm 13:1 – God Hides His Face
“How long, O Lord? Will you forget me forever? How long will you hide your face from me?”

David, the Psalmist, is going through a season of feeling far from God. He depicts his feeling of God’s absence as God forgetting him and hiding his face. While it is impossible for God to forget anything, David felt forgotten by God. This expression refers to a period in which one feels estranged from God. The face of God is a metaphorical way to speak of God’s presence. David felt God’s presence being hidden from him. Psalm 13 is not the only place in which David laments these feelings. Psalm 88:14 expresses a similar struggle: “O Lord, why do you cast my soul away? Why do you hide your face from me?” Psalm 30:7 phrases this pain most succinctly: “You hid your face; I was dismayed.” There are times when God feels hidden.

Romans 8:23 – Groaning for the Future
“And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.”

Paul describes Christians as those who groan, aching for the future. They have been given the Spirit, but the Spirit points them to something they don’t yet have. The presence of the Spirit of God points to a current absence of God. So, they groan. Paul explains this same truth in 2 Corinthians 1:22: “[God] set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.” When God becomes present with a Christian on earth, it makes them long for a richer experience of his presence in heaven.

John 16:7 – Jesus’ Absence is Good
“I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you.”

For the last several chapters of John, Jesus has been trying to comfort his disciples. They are confused and afraid because Jesus has told them he is going away. Yet, it is to the disciple’s advantage that Jesus goes away so that they may receive the Holy Spirit. This absence is advantageous because the Spirit will testify about Jesus and bring to remembrance everything he said. However, this was never meant to be a permanent condition. In this same final talk to his disciples Jesus said, “If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also” (14:3). Even though we have the Spirit (an inexpressibly great treasure), Jesus is absent from us in the way we most desire. Our deepest longing is to be present where he is.


What Does God’s Absence Mean?

Working through the real pain and theological difficulties of God’s absence is no easy task. However, it will be sufficient to make these three observations given the texts above.

1. When we take advantage of God’s presence, we should expect his absence.
2. Feeling like God isn’t there is a Biblically verified reality.
3. Since Christians are waiting for the return of Jesus, even the current expressions of God’s presence can occasionally feel like absence.

The source is from CrossWalk

5 Verses about God’s Absence That May Surprise You

There are times when God feels hidden.

www.crosswalk.com