The Commandments to Receive the Promise of the Holy Ghost

[Jesus_is_LORD]

@regibassman57 Thanks for the reply brother. I will pray for illumination on the subject as the spirit leads. Wishing your
day is most blessed in the love and joy of our risen Savior Jesus the Christ. Be blessed.

 

[regibassman57]

@Jesus_is_LORD,
I really appreciate your greeting "Jesus_is_LORD. My life is blessed. I do wish the same for you. Peace and Love in Christ.

 

[Sue D.]

For All have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Born-again believers are sinners saved by God's grace.

I was in counseling for a while a few years ago -- the counseling said that That verse 1 John 1:9 is taken a bit out of context. Upon initial salvation, yes.

My Bible has a note on the bottom referring to 1 John 1:9 -- seems that the Gnostics denied that their immoral actions were sinful --so they were being told that , yes, their immorality Was sinful and could be forgiven if confessed.

No one is going to be sinlessly perfect while we're here on earth. One of the curses of the fall was having the propensity For sinning.

And, upon our personal Salvation, belief in our hearts and confession unto salvation -- the Holy Spirit Does comes to indwell us immediately. No one needs to Ask for it - ever -- it's one of the things that automatically takes place at time of salvation.

 

[JesusIs4Me]

@JesusIs4Me,
You said:
You are reading more into His words than you should since Jesus said this below for a reason and that reason is a warning to believers to beware the doctrine of the commandments of men in context of that chapter.

The only point I was making using the verses I have was a believer can blasphemy through their actions of unfruitful work. I realize Jesus was warring the people in context but what I added in 1Corinthians 6 is the same as blasphemy. The end result is the same; you lose eternal life.

John 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Explain verse 39 above underlined because Jesus says you cannot lose your salvation because He cannot lose any of all the Father has given Him.

So that first inheritance; to be like the angels that never die .. can be lost, but although the prodigal son gave up that inheritance for wild living, he is still son. That seal of adoption isn't going anywhere. That is why there are vessels unto dishonor in His House.

You said: Proverbs 28:13 He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.
How can a born again believer cover something that has been forgiven?

You said: Mat 15:18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.

Before Jesus took away sins these things could defile a man, but not after the death of Jesus Christ. Jesus forgive you of your sins forever.

You said: If you sin or as you seem to cover your sins by calling them "unfruitful works",
you are denying your continual need for Jesus Christ to forgive you of your sins and to help you from doing it again; that is what the race is all about; not for salvation; but to live the reconciled relationship with God thru Jesus Christ because we cannot follow Him without His continual help as we follow Him by the same grace of God we have been saved by.
God has already given me and all believers’ power over the devil. God has already forgiven me of all my sins past, present and future.

You said: Proverbs 28:13 He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

Scripture teaches:
Eph 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

1Jo 2:12 I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake.

You already have forgiveness of sins. A believer needs to repent and turn from their unfruitful works and do right by God’s commandments.

You said: We are not perfect yet and when I sin, I confess it and ask for His help so that I do not do that again. I trust Him as my Good Shepherd to lead me away from temptation as well as deliver me from the evil one as it is on Him to do it.

God has already told you He will not allow you to be tempted above you ability. You have the power already to obey Christ. You have to look to God’s word and be willing to obey. First you have to believe that God has given you the ability to obey and He has.

1Co 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

You do oppose yourself; you say a believer can lose eternal life, and then you say God would never let you be tempted to sin.

How do you apply this warning below unless you deny His words of the real danger to saved believers following after those saved believers who err that live after the flesh?

2 Peter 2:18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error. 19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. 20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

Obviously to me; and I thank Jesus Christ that it is obvious to me, there is a race to be won by faith in Jesus Christ to help us lay aside every weight & sin as He will finish that race to His glory as the only consequence for not running that race by living in unrepentant iniquity IS losing out on the first fruit of the resurrection to attend the Marriage Supper in Heaven in honor & glory of the Bridegroom with thanksgivings & praise to Him and to the Father in Jesus's name.

May I suggest you pray, brother, for wisdom from Him and discernment in proving everything by Him that lines up with all of scripture in the KJV rather than ignoring them in holding onto pet doctrines that runs contrary to the rest of scripture.

 

[regibassman57]

JesusIs4Me,
You told me: Explain verse 39 (John 6:38) above underlined because Jesus says you cannot lose your salvation because He cannot lose any of all the Father has given Him.

When I read John 6:38, 38 I understand it to say Jesus came to do His Father’s will. All that the Father has given Jesus He will lose none and they shall be raised up again at the last day. Everyone that “sees,” as in understands the Son, more importantly believes Him, has everlasting life and will be raised up at the last day.

A man that “believes” Jesus believes what Jesus says and does it. If we call Jesus Lord and are not obedient to Him, He is not our Lord.

Luk 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

Luk 6:47 Whosoever comes to me, and hears my sayings, and does them, I will show you to whom he is like:

If we hear God’s word as he teaches us and learn obedience in what God has taught, we will be raised up at the last day. The people of the Church of Christ will marry the Son and God will give those to the Son that are obedient to learning.

Joh 6:44 (Jesus said) No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Joh 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all “taught of God.” Every man therefore that hath “heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.”

If a so called believer does not learn after being a hearer of God’s word and is not a doer of God’s word putting into practice what they’ve learned they are deceiving themselves.

Jam 1:22 But be ye “doers of the word,” and “not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.”

Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, “Jesus became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him”;

 

[regibassman57]

@Sue D,

You said: For All have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Born-again believers are sinners saved by God's grace.

No one has denied this verse. “All “have” sinned” past tense. But a born again believer does not sin.

Yes it’s true. The Gnostics were unbelieving Jews that believed these things below:

1. All matter is evil, and the non-material, spirit-realm is good.

2. There is an unknowable God, who gave rise to many lesser spirit beings called Aeons.

3. The creator of the (material) universe is not the supreme god, but an inferior spirit

4. Gnosticism does not deal with "sin", only ignorance.

5. To achieve salvation, one needs to get in touch with secret knowledge.

You said: My Bible has a note on the bottom referring to 1 John 1:9 -- seems that the Gnostics denied that their immoral actions were sinful --so they were being told that , yes, their immorality Was sinful and could be forgiven if confessed.

I have not denied 1John 1:9; but it’s only for initial salvation and after we confess our sins they are forgiven and cleansed forever. This is what John wrote to his brothers in 1John 2:12. They “ARE” forgiven of their sins. John tells these believers this after they were born again.

1Jo 2:12 I write unto you, little children, because your sins “are” forgiven you for his name's sake.

Not “will be” forgiven; they “are” forgiven. This is the same John that said if you confess your sins. John is not confused. The order is; ask for forgiveness for your sins, and your sins “are” forgiven forever.

You said: No one is going to be sinlessly perfect while we're here on earth. One of the curses of the fall was having the propensity For sinning.

As long as you look at your actions through the flesh you will believe you sin.

Sue, I have questions for you.

Is God imputing sin unto believers? What scripture do you confirm you answer with?

What does “impute” mean to you?

 

[JesusIs4Me]

JesusIs4Me,
You told me: Explain verse 39 (John 6:38) above underlined because Jesus says you cannot lose your salvation because He cannot lose any of all the Father has given Him.

When I read John 6:38, 38 I understand it to say Jesus came to do His Father’s will. All that the Father has given Jesus He will lose none and they shall be raised up again at the last day. Everyone that “sees,” as in understands the Son, more importantly believes Him, has everlasting life and will be raised up at the last day.

A man that “believes” Jesus believes what Jesus says and does it. If we call Jesus Lord and are not obedient to Him, He is not our Lord.

But that is not the requirement stated for the believer; & thus you are ignoring the conditions of the promise for all who believe in Him.

John 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

What you have quoted from scripture next has nothing to do with salvation, but for calling Him your Lord and how to avoid appearing like a hypocrite before God and men. Let us address your references;

Luk 6:46

And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

Luk 6:47 Whosoever comes to me, and hears my sayings, and does them, I will show you to whom he is like:

Let us look at His words in context;

Luke 6:43 For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 44 For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes. 45 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh. 46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? 47 Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: 48 He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock. 49 But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.

If you compare the above in context to the warning about false prophets coming into the churches in Matthew 7:13-27 KJV you would find that the similarity of topics involves broadening the way in the worship place as being that iniquity in not doing what the Lord told you to do and that is the Son is the only way to approach God the Father by; in prayer, fellowship, and in worship for WHY the Holy Spirit is not the way to approach God the Father by in any of those things. That is why the consequence for not heeding His words in Luke 6:47-49 KJV is the same as stated in Matthew 7:24-27 KJV which is about how saved believers are approaching God the Father by way of the Holy Spirit in addressing the Holy Spirit in prayer and in worship and even in fellowship for why in doing that very thing is why they are falling down backwards in these slain in the spirit phenomenon or that holy laughter movement as well as other callings that places the focus on the Holy Spirit in relat9ing to God the Father by like tongues without interpretation.

These believers did not heed the commandment of His invitation in how any believer is to approach God the Father by which is by the only way of the Son.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

This falling away from the faith was prophesied in 1 Timothy 4:1-2 KJV and so they are saved believers but did not heed His words for how they were to come to God the Father by; which is by the only way of the Son; not by the Holy Spirit. That is why when they address the Holy Spirit in these movements of the "Spirit" , they fall down because that is not the way to approach God the Father by. It is because sinners in the worlds worship spirits and seek to receive spirits is why the Father is calling them to be reconciled only thru the Son. We have fellowship with the Son thru the Holy Spirit in us but our response is to the Son and by Him, God the Father; not back thru the Spirit.

We are the bride and the Son is the Bridegroom and scripture and the indwelling Holy Spirit is still pointing us to the Son in living that reconciled relationship with God thru the Son. Those whom have gone astray, are still His, but are at risk of being left behind unless they look to Him for help to discern & to depart from iniquity before the Bridegroom comes.

If we hear God’s word as he teaches us and learn obedience in what God has taught, we will be raised up at the last day. The people of the Church of Christ will marry the Son and God will give those to the Son that are obedient to learning.

Joh 6:44 (Jesus said) No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Joh 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all “taught of God.” Every man therefore that hath “heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.”

If a so called believer does not learn after being a hearer of God’s word and is not a doer of God’s word putting into practice what they’ve learned they are deceiving themselves.

Jam 1:22 But be ye “doers of the word,” and “not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.”

That is only applicable for abiding in Him as His disciple in order to be received by the Bridegroom as a vessel unto honor in His House. There is no loss of salvation, but a loss of that first inheritance to be like the angels that never die.

Those resurrected after the great tribulation will not have the power of the second death over them; which means they can still die in that glorified terrestrial state BUT eventually, in the end, at the great white throne judgment when He will cast death and hades into the lake of fire signifying that those resurrected after the great tribulation and those written in the Book of life has inherited eternal life after all. See? It may not be as glorious as the first fruit of the resurrection, but they will inherit eternal life in a different manner in a glorified terrestrial body that will never die by eating from the tree of life.

Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, “Jesus became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him”;

Jesus is the author; not ourselves. The only way to obey Him in regards to eternal life is to believe in Him as that Author. Even former believers that do not repent but get left behind, He still abides in them as they will eventually have eternal life but still not inherit the kingdom of Heaven like the first fruit of the resurrection shall. Why? Because they still have His seal even if they did go astray and not believe in Him any more, but He is FAITHFUL BECAUSE HE still abides in them.

That is the power of God in salvation for all those that believe in Him, even in His name, even though like the prodigal son, they can never get that inheritance back for giving it up for wild living, but they are still son.

 

[regibassman57]

@JesusIs4Me,
We have to come to the point where we ask questions about what we don't understand, it's easier to digest if you don't understand.

You said: But that is not the requirement stated for the believer; & thus you are ignoring the conditions of the promise for all who believe in Him.
The requirements are to believe, love and obey Jesus by faith.
Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abides on him.

Joh 14:15 If you love me, keep my commandments.

Joh 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keeps them, he it is that loves me: and “he that loves me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, “Jesus became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him”;

You said: What you have quoted from scripture next has nothing to do with salvation, but for calling Him your Lord and how to avoid appearing like a hypocrite before God and men. Let us address your references;
You cannot call Jesus Lord if you do not do what He tells you. If Jesus is not your Lord you will not enter into Eternal Life. Everything in Luke 6:43-47 has to do with obedience and Jesus’ Lordship over you if Jesus is your Lord. If Jesus is not a person’s Lord they will not do what He tells them and they will not have Eternal Life.
The false prophets are believers that are “tares” in the body of Christ. They will die if they do not repent. A believer, “tare” or otherwise will be judged at the same time as everyone else in the Church. If a false prophet or a person not doing God’s will is judge and found to be lacking in fruit, they will die. Jesus is the only way to God the Father and that is through obedience to what Jesus has taught from the things He received from His Father. The words Jesus speaks are the way to Eternal Life and the Father.
Joh 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
Joh 12:50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

Those that are disobedient to Jesus’ word are not abiding in Him and will be cast into the Fire.
Joh 15:2 “Every branch “IN ME” that bears not fruit “God takes away”: and every branch that bears fruit, he purges it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
Joh 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is “cast forth as a branch,” and is withered; and “men gather them”, and “cast them into the fire”, and “they are burned.”

These are vessels of dishonor that will be taken away and burned. You cannot be burned in the fire and come back to Christ. This is the Eternal separation.

You said: Jesus is the author; not ourselves. The only way to obey Him in regards to eternal life is to believe in Him as that Author.
That’s not what Hebrews 5:9 says: It says, Jesus is the author of Salvation to those that “obey Him.” If you do not obey Jesus you will not have life. That’s why He’s not a man’s Lord if they don’t do what He says.
Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, “Jesus became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him”;
God has given every believer power to become sons; it doesn’t mean they will. You must obey and overcome as you are lead by the Sprit of God. If you do not overcome you will not inherit Eternal Life. All things include Eternal Life. You will not be a son if you do not overcome.
Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Rev 21:7 He that over comes shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

 

[Sue D.]

@Sue D,

You said: For All have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Born-again believers are sinners saved by God's grace.

No one has denied this verse. “All “have” sinned” past tense. But a born again believer does not sin.

Yes it’s true. The Gnostics were unbelieving Jews that believed these things below:

1. All matter is evil, and the non-material, spirit-realm is good.

2. There is an unknowable God, who gave rise to many lesser spirit beings called Aeons.

3. The creator of the (material) universe is not the supreme god, but an inferior spirit

4. Gnosticism does not deal with "sin", only ignorance.

5. To achieve salvation, one needs to get in touch with secret knowledge.

You said: My Bible has a note on the bottom referring to 1 John 1:9 -- seems that the Gnostics denied that their immoral actions were sinful --so they were being told that , yes, their immorality Was sinful and could be forgiven if confessed.

I have not denied 1John 1:9; but it’s only for initial salvation and after we confess our sins they are forgiven and cleansed forever. This is what John wrote to his brothers in 1John 2:12. They “ARE” forgiven of their sins. John tells these believers this after they were born again.

1Jo 2:12 I write unto you, little children, because your sins “are” forgiven you for his name's sake.

Not “will be” forgiven; they “are” forgiven. This is the same John that said if you confess your sins. John is not confused. The order is; ask for forgiveness for your sins, and your sins “are” forgiven forever.

You said: No one is going to be sinlessly perfect while we're here on earth. One of the curses of the fall was having the propensity For sinning.

As long as you look at your actions through the flesh you will believe you sin.

Sue, I have questions for you.

Is God imputing sin unto believers? What scripture do you confirm you answer with?

What does “impute” mean to you?

This is ending up out of order in the discussion -- sorry about that. God sees us through the blood of Jesus Christ -- we are justified -- 'just as if we'd never sinned'. But we do still sin. Satan is still alive and well in this world. He knows our weaknesses and works on those to make believers ineffective in our witnessing.

And I know I sin. And some times it's the 'pride' of" I've lived a pretty good life 'this week' or 'today'. " We pat ourselves on the back and probably justified -- because we Have done a good job. Just don't let 'it' go to our heads.

 

[povawiqe]

Some wisdom from the Lord is needed to see the truth in His words, but we shall address the commandments required for receiving the promise of the Holy Spirit.

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Now the commandments Jesus is talking about here cannot be everything Jesus has taught, otherwise we would never be able to receive the promise of the Holy Spirit, since it is dependent on keeping those commandments.

Since those commandments are important for receiving the promise of the forever indwelling Holy Spirit, Jesus would have stated what those commandments are; so let us read the verses before verse 15 that preceded the promise of the Spirit.

John 14:1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. 2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. 4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know. 5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way? 6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. 7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. 8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us. 9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father? 10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake. 12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. 13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

So when you read into these following verses below;

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

May the Lord Jesus Christ help you to see that His repeating the commandment to believe Him are the commandments in John 14:15 that are required in order to receive the promise of the forever indwelling Holy Ghost at our salvation.

Confirmation can be found here;

Ephesians 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: 12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. 13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. 15 Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,

Feel free to share other verses that cites that by believing in Him at the calling of the gospel is how any one is saved by receiving the promise of the forever indwelling Holy Ghost at our salvation.

The commandments of God are found in the Torah. If you wish to receive the anointing, then you must obey the Torah.

 

[JesusIs4Me]

The commandments of God are found in the Torah. If you wish to receive the anointing, then you must obey the Torah.

That would be an unreasonable request from the Lord for the New Covenant because the commandments in the Torah is an ongoing thing to keep and therefore you would never get the promise of the Holy Spirit at your salvation.

And yet scripture has been consistent in that by coming to & believing in Him, is how any one is saved, thereby receiving the promise of the Holy Spirit at their salvation, so it cannot be about keeping the commandments found in the Torah.

 

[povawiqe]

That would be an unreasonable request from the Lord for the New Covenant because the commandments in the Torah is an ongoing thing to keep and therefore you would never get the promise of the Holy Spirit at your salvation.

And yet scripture has been consistent in that by coming to & believing in Him, is how any one is saved, thereby receiving the promise of the Holy Spirit at their salvation, so it cannot be about keeping the commandments found in the Torah.

The Messiah himself said the Torah is still binding,

For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Torah until everything is accomplished. (Matthew 5:18)

It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the least stroke of a pen to drop out of the Torah. (Luke 16:17)

Do not think that I have come to abolish the Torah or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. (Matthew 5:17)

And those he will cast away are those who live without Torah, which is was LAW-LESS-NESS means,

And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’ (Matthew 7:23)

Which corresponds with,

Hear, you earth: I am bringing disaster on this people, the fruit of their schemes, because they have not listened to my words and have rejected my Torah. (Jeremiah 6:19)

 

[JesusIs4Me]

The Messiah himself said the Torah is still binding,

For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Torah until everything is accomplished. (Matthew 5:18)

It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the least stroke of a pen to drop out of the Torah. (Luke 16:17)

Do not think that I have come to abolish the Torah or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. (Matthew 5:17)

Jesus is talking about giving His life as a ransom for sins; to pay the penalty for sins which is death as required by law.

And those he will cast away are those who live without Torah, which is was LAW-LESS-NESS means,

And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’ (Matthew 7:23)

I would like to know what Bible version you are using that says that in Luke 16:17. The KJV has it as:

Luke 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail. KJV

However, as for the Sermon on the Mount, the KJV has it in this wise; " iniquity " is an accurate meaning of His words than limiting it to lawlessness.

Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

In the message of Matthew 7:13-27 KJV that iniquity is about how false prophets will come in to broaden the way in coming to God the Father by other than the Son by having the Holy Spirit as Another Go To God to approach God the Father by in worship, fellowship, and prayer, but none of His invitations points to the Holy Spirit as another way to approach God the Father by. So Jesus meant what He has said below, literally.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Indeed, to climb up another way is iniquity just as there is no other way to honor the Father but by honoring the Son.

John 10:1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

By focusing on the Holy Spirit in worship and addressing Him in worship and calling on Him to come and fall on them in worship as a few hymnals err for believers already with the Holy Spirit in them are singing, That is why many "houses are fallen" as many believers lose self control and fall backwards in these movements of the 'spirit' thinking that was the Holy Spirit, because they did not heed His words to go to the Father by the only way of the Son.

Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it..........23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. 24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. 26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

Indeed, this iniquity is applied in another way for ignoring the Son as the only way to come to God the Father by; believers that practise "holy communion" by making communion more than what it is and more than what it is to be done for which is to be only done in remembrance of Him; NOT for receiving Him again as if His Presence are in the sacraments to receive Him again in that way nor to come into His Presence at communion as if we are walking away from His Presence after communion when He is in us and is with us always. That is why the Lord is rebuking those who profess Him here in Luke 13:24-30 as they saw the sacraments of Communion or the place where His Presence dwell at communion as a way to come to God the Father by... NOT !!!!

Luke 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. 25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are: 26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets. 27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity. 28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out. 29 And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God. 30 And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last.

That is the iniquity Jesus is rebuking in Matthew 7:23 KJV for coming to God the Father other than the only way provided by the Father is by the way of the Son in fellowship, prayer, and especially worship.

You can discern His words with His help when obviously, your application of lawlessness as meaning the commandments as found in the Torah is not the iniquity being talked about in the context of that message, because the excuses they that profess Him say. those excuses comes about by doing that iniquity. Believers that preach another baptism with the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues apart from salvation, slain in the spirit, holy laughter movement, Toronto's Blessings, Pennsacola Outpouring, and even Ernest Angeley's Healing Crusade can all say those excuses in Matthew 7:21-23 but those excuses were not of Him when they came about by doing that iniquity of how they cam to God the Father by.

Paul reminds believers when the Holy Spirit has been received which was when we had first believed at the calling of the gospel; thus by faith in Jesus Christ. That is the tradition taught of us as we are to keep and defend the faith thereby.

2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

So that is the actual iniquity spoken of in Matthew 7:23 and not lawlessness in general, because believers do not fall down for not doing the commandment of the Torah. I see no believers falling down for not attending services on the sabbath. But I see believers falling down when they approach God the Father by way of the Holy Spirit rather than by the only way of the Son, the Lord Jesus Christ.

Context matters, brother. That is why lawlessness cannot be the correct word when no one loses self control and fall backwards for not heeding His words of the commandment of His invitation to only come to God the Father by Jesus Christ.

Which corresponds with,

Hear, you earth: I am bringing disaster on this people, the fruit of their schemes, because they have not listened to my words and have rejected my Torah. (Jeremiah 6:19)

Jeremiah 6:19 Hear, O earth: behold, I will bring evil upon this people, even the fruit of their thoughts, because they have not hearkened unto my words, nor to my law, but rejected it. KJV

I do believe you have a Bible version that has been changed to suit its denominational belief when scripture never used the term Torah at all to begin with. Quoted from the link below at this site that teaches your belief, I think.

Torah Definition

"We should note that the usual translation of this word as law is not quite accurate.[1] One of the most common ways that torah (תורה) is rendered in the Septuagint (LXX)[2] is by using the word nomosv, nomo?. The Greek word nomos, however, has a variety of uses, among which, to be sure, is law, but it is certainly not limited to law. Following the precedent set by the LXX, the Newer Covenant Scriptures consistently render the Hebrew torah by the term nomos. This is where things begin to become confusing. Sometimes, in the Newer Covenant Scriptures, it is appropriate to translate nomos as law. However, other times it is more appropriate to render it as God's teaching/instruction, or simply to transliterate the term as Torah. The context of the word is always the final determiner of its meaning. ".

It seems to me they had changed the places in your Bible version where Torah was never used before as evidence by the KJV. So when you read the New Testament, you are understandably influenced to see any reference of law as meaning the Torah in regards to your belief as if you are still under the Old Covenant like a Jew where the emphasis is on him to keep the law rather than the New Covenant.where the emphasis is on Him for us to believe He will help us to follow Him and not just save us by believing in Him and that God raised Him from the dead. If you read these verses below, there is no mention of Torah for you to be saved by.

Romans 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. KJV

I do not know what Bible version you are using, but do read the Book of Galatians in the KJV at this link and compare it with your version. Do ask Jesus Christ for His help to see the truth in His words to expose the darkness you are in.

BibleGateway Galatians 3rd Chapter

 

[povawiqe]

Jesus is talking about giving His life as a ransom for sins; to pay the penalty for sins which is death as required by law.



I would like to know what Bible version you are using that says that in Luke 16:17. The KJV has it as:

Luke 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail. KJV

However, as for the Sermon on the Mount, the KJV has it in this wise; " iniquity " is an accurate meaning of His words than limiting it to lawlessness.

Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

In the message of Matthew 7:13-27 KJV that iniquity is about how false prophets will come in to broaden the way in coming to God the Father by other than the Son by having the Holy Spirit as Another Go To God to approach God the Father by in worship, fellowship, and prayer, but none of His invitations points to the Holy Spirit as another way to approach God the Father by. So Jesus meant what He has said below, literally.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Indeed, to climb up another way is iniquity just as there is no other way to honor the Father but by honoring the Son.

John 10:1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

By focusing on the Holy Spirit in worship and addressing Him in worship and calling on Him to come and fall on them in worship as a few hymnals err for believers already with the Holy Spirit in them are singing, That is why many "houses are fallen" as many believers lose self control and fall backwards in these movements of the 'spirit' thinking that was the Holy Spirit, because they did not heed His words to go to the Father by the only way of the Son.

Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it..........23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. 24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. 26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

Indeed, this iniquity is applied in another way for ignoring the Son as the only way to come to God the Father by; believers that practise "holy communion" by making communion more than what it is and more than what it is to be done for which is to be only done in remembrance of Him; NOT for receiving Him again as if His Presence are in the sacraments to receive Him again in that way nor to come into His Presence at communion as if we are walking away from His Presence after communion when He is in us and is with us always. That is why the Lord is rebuking those who profess Him here in Luke 13:24-30 as they saw the sacraments of Communion or the place where His Presence dwell at communion as a way to come to God the Father by... NOT !!!!

Luke 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. 25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are: 26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets. 27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity. 28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out. 29 And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God. 30 And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last.

That is the iniquity Jesus is rebuking in Matthew 7:23 KJV for coming to God the Father other than the only way provided by the Father is by the way of the Son in fellowship, prayer, and especially worship.

You can discern His words with His help when obviously, your application of lawlessness as meaning the commandments as found in the Torah is not the iniquity being talked about in the context of that message, because the excuses they that profess Him say. those excuses comes about by doing that iniquity. Believers that preach another baptism with the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues apart from salvation, slain in the spirit, holy laughter movement, Toronto's Blessings, Pennsacola Outpouring, and even Ernest Angeley's Healing Crusade can all say those excuses in Matthew 7:21-23 but those excuses were not of Him when they came about by doing that iniquity of how they cam to God the Father by.

Paul reminds believers when the Holy Spirit has been received which was when we had first believed at the calling of the gospel; thus by faith in Jesus Christ. That is the tradition taught of us as we are to keep and defend the faith thereby.

2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

So that is the actual iniquity spoken of in Matthew 7:23 and not lawlessness in general, because believers do not fall down for not doing the commandment of the Torah. I see no believers falling down for not attending services on the sabbath. But I see believers falling down when they approach God the Father by way of the Holy Spirit rather than by the only way of the Son, the Lord Jesus Christ.

Context matters, brother. That is why lawlessness cannot be the correct word when no one loses self control and fall backwards for not heeding His words of the commandment of His invitation to only come to God the Father by Jesus Christ.



Jeremiah 6:19 Hear, O earth: behold, I will bring evil upon this people, even the fruit of their thoughts, because they have not hearkened unto my words, nor to my law, but rejected it. KJV

I do believe you have a Bible version that has been changed to suit its denominational belief when scripture never used the term Torah at all to begin with. Quoted from the link below at this site that teaches your belief, I think.

Torah Definition

"We should note that the usual translation of this word as law is not quite accurate.[1] One of the most common ways that torah (תורה) is rendered in the Septuagint (LXX)[2] is by using the word nomosv, nomo?. The Greek word nomos, however, has a variety of uses, among which, to be sure, is law, but it is certainly not limited to law. Following the precedent set by the LXX, the Newer Covenant Scriptures consistently render the Hebrew torah by the term nomos. This is where things begin to become confusing. Sometimes, in the Newer Covenant Scriptures, it is appropriate to translate nomos as law. However, other times it is more appropriate to render it as God's teaching/instruction, or simply to transliterate the term as Torah. The context of the word is always the final determiner of its meaning. ".

It seems to me they had changed the places in your Bible version where Torah was never used before as evidence by the KJV. So when you read the New Testament, you are understandably influenced to see any reference of law as meaning the Torah in regards to your belief as if you are still under the Old Covenant like a Jew where the emphasis is on him to keep the law rather than the New Covenant.where the emphasis is on Him for us to believe He will help us to follow Him and not just save us by believing in Him and that God raised Him from the dead. If you read these verses below, there is no mention of Torah for you to be saved by.

Romans 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. KJV

I do not know what Bible version you are using, but do read the Book of Galatians in the KJV at this link and compare it with your version. Do ask Jesus Christ for His help to see the truth in His words to expose the darkness you are in.

BibleGateway Galatians 3rd Chapter

The "Law" is the Torah. When the Messiah said, "not one jot or tittle will fall from the Law until heaven and earth vanishes" he was speaking of the Torah. The Torah is what defines everything that is sin, "you shall not murder", "you shall not steal", "a man shall not wear women's clothing" are all commands that any believer must obey before he receives the anointing. This is why the apostles said, murderers, thieves, effeminates will not inherit the kingdom of God, in reference to these commands of the Torah, which is the Law of God. Also, the Greek word translated as "lawless" is anomia, which means WITHOUT LAW. Which Law? The Torah, the Law of God.

 

[JesusIs4Me]

The "Law" is the Torah. When the Messiah said, "not one jot or tittle will fall from the Law until heaven and earth vanishes" he was speaking of the Torah. The Torah is what defines everything that is sin, "you shall not murder", "you shall not steal", "a man shall not wear women's clothing" are all commands that any believer must obey before he receives the anointing. This is why the apostles said, murderers, thieves, effeminates will not inherit the kingdom of God, in reference to these commands of the Torah, which is the Law of God. Also, the Greek word translated as "lawless" is anomia, which means WITHOUT LAW. Which Law? The Torah, the Law of God.

Until you address & study post #53, our discussion shall be at an impasse. So take time out today and ask Him where I am coming from. Otherwise, you will never understand why Jesus says you are guiltless for profaning the sabbath day because He is with you.

Matthew 12:1At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn and to eat. 2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day. 3 But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him; 4 How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests? 5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless? 6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple. 7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.

In all His commandments which is to cease from sin , keeping the sabbath day is a commandment yet for you to keep to avoid sinning and so that is why Jesus fulfilled the law in that regard in that you have His righteousness now as standing apart from the law of yet to keep the sabbath day for why you are guiltless for profaning it. That is how you enter into that rest provided by God in Jesus Christ in that by believing in Him, you are saved apart from the law.

Romans 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. 21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. 27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

So if you do not want to address nor study post # 53, then read and discern with Him the meaning of His words that have been provided in this post in the KJV. Otherwise... we are at an impasse as I leave you to God since only He can cause the increase.

 

[povawiqe]

Until you address & study post #53, our discussion shall be at an impasse. So take time out today and ask Him where I am coming from. Otherwise, you will never understand why Jesus says you are guiltless for profaning the sabbath day because He is with you.

Matthew 12:1At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn and to eat. 2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day. 3 But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him; 4 How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests? 5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless? 6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple. 7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.

In all His commandments which is to cease from sin , keeping the sabbath day is a commandment yet for you to keep to avoid sinning and so that is why Jesus fulfilled the law in that regard in that you have His righteousness now as standing apart from the law of yet to keep the sabbath day for why you are guiltless for profaning it. That is how you enter into that rest provided by God in Jesus Christ in that by believing in Him, you are saved apart from the law.

Romans 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. 21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. 27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

So if you do not want to address nor study post # 53, then read and discern with Him the meaning of His words that have been provided in this post in the KJV. Otherwise... we are at an impasse as I leave you to God since only He can cause the increase.

Profaning the Shabbat has nothing to do with obey the Torah of God. The new covenant fulfills the Torah in a greater way than in the old covenant, such as the Messiah becoming a literal sacrifice, thus fulfilling the Passover of the Torah, or him being literally resurrected as the first fruits among the dead, thus fulfilling the first fruits offering of barley of the Torah, and us entering into the millennial Shabbat, thus fulfilling the requirement of the Shabbat of the Torah. This is why Paul says, "let no one judge you for what you eat, drink, a Shabbat, a new moon", because there were all merely foreshadows of realities found in the Messiah and through the Messiah we will fulfill these appointed times of the Torah in the literal and greater way they foreshadowed. However, every other command that is not one of these types of commands, must still be obeyed plainly as they were given, "you shall not murder", "you shall not steal", "a man shall not wear women's clothing." These are all still binding commands of the Torah.

 

[JesusIs4Me]

Profaning the Shabbat has nothing to do with obey the Torah of God. The new covenant fulfills the Torah in a greater way than in the old covenant, such as the Messiah becoming a literal sacrifice, thus fulfilling the Passover of the Torah, or him being literally resurrected as the first fruits among the dead, thus fulfilling the first fruits offering of barley of the Torah, and us entering into the millennial Shabbat, thus fulfilling the requirement of the Shabbat of the Torah. This is why Paul says, "let no one judge you for what you eat, drink, a Shabbat, a new moon", because there were all merely foreshadows of realities found in the Messiah and through the Messiah we will fulfill these appointed times of the Torah in the literal and greater way they foreshadowed. However, every other command that is not one of these types of commands, must still be obeyed plainly as they were given, "you shall not murder", "you shall not steal", "a man shall not wear women's clothing." These are all still binding commands of the Torah.

I believe the whole point of the Old Covenant was that man looks to himself to know and keep the law whereas the New Covenant has the emphasis on God to put the law in our hearts thereby enabling us to know His words and be able to follow Him not by looking to ourselves, but by looking to the author & finisher of our faith.

Only the Lord can convince you that He was not talking about the Torah in Matthew 7:23 but the law of the commandment of His invitation in John 14:6 where workers of iniquity will broaden the way in coming to God the Father by. Study post #53 with Him or don't.

 

[Sue D.]

And we find that we can't ever keep the entire law without messing up with even one point. The law points a person to realize their Need For a Savior.

 

[regibassman57]

JesusIs4Me,

You said: “I believe the whole point of the Old Covenant was that man looks to himself to know and keep the law”

This is partly true. Israel choose not to believe God by faith as we must. God’s will was for Israel to believe Him through the Law of Moses by faith. It was Israel’s responsibility to do the work for sin in order for them to have peace with God, but they had to believe God’s word and do it just as we do. Jesus did the work of sin for us as believers. Israel went into bondage because of their unbelief by not trusting God's word; which was the Law of the Covenant.

Deu 1:32 Yet in this thing you did not believe the LORD your God,

Deu 32:20 And God said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith.

 

[Sue D.]

Wasn't part of the laws given to the Children of Israel to set them apart from the people groups around them? They were following heathen 'gods' and had daily habits / practices that were not God-honoring. So God was giving them all the laws of cleanliness, all the things that they needed cleansing From so they would be healthier people. Just as God has given Us various guidelines to keep Us healthy. But those guidelines have nothing to do with our salvation.