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The Correct Bible to Use

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Woah now. Hold on a second. That's not how God wrote it in English, is it? Didn't he wrote it like this:

16 All Scripture is giuen by inspiration of God, & is profitable for doctrine, for reproofe, for correction, for instrution in righteousness,

or

dlja55.png


You can't just go and change God's word to how you like it now can you? That's a bit contradictory. We can't go changing jots and tittles as we see fit.

= )
 
Greetings,

May I ask, who is the 'we' that keeps getting mentioned ?

Hint, is it for example the bods who did the new world translation and if not, who decides, based on what? Credentials or their version or ...?

Bless you ....><>
 
I haven't touched on the big picture, but I will now, since it ties back to the correct Bible to use.

Look at the USA and the world. Wickedness is getting worse and worse. Whose fault is it?
Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers,
against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Why has the church allowed spiritual wickedness in, and allowed it to flourish? A LOT of people
can see there is a problem with the church and claim it needs to wake up. Being asleep or lazy
isn't the issue. The issue is spiritual wickedness so the problem with the church is spiritual.
No one, who is being spiritually deceived will know it and no one can show you where you are wrong.
They can show the person the warning signs. Such as: Have you sought God's will in which Bible
to read? No? Well, that is a red flag warning. To justify yourself and use your own personal wants
and desires to hold more weight with you than being in God's will, well...that a flashing red light
with sirens going off.

I've been in your shoes and I know your mindset. If someone disagrees with you on doctrine, well, that
other person is wrong and needs to get his act together and learn. Reality check! That person
thinks the very same thing about you. People with opposing view points on what the Bible says
both feel equally strong that their point is right. Ever debate the rapture? You'll get 1000's
of posts and not one single person will convince another person, with an opposing view. The problem
is spiritual and they are just debating/discussing in the physical.

Majority of the church is spiritually deceived. The USA and the world would NOT be in the shape it is in
now, if this was not the case. Every Christian has the mind set that the other group is wrong or the other
guy/gal is wrong. Well, have you ever went to the Lord and asked what is wrong with your own
spiritual walk? Going to the Lord and seeking His will on which Bible to use is Christianity 101.
It is basic stuff. Majority of the church holds to the teaching that you need to get a Bible you can understand,
focus on accuracy. That isn't in the Bible. What does the Bible say? Matthew 6:10 Thy kingdom come.
Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

Now look at the general public. God said not to mark yourself up. Look at the number on tattoos people have.
Notice I didn't say look at the number of people that have tattoos. When God said don't do it, then there
are wicked spirits that do want you to do that. When you look at the tattoos, you see that spirits that are working
in your country and in the minds of everyday people. There are Christians getting tattoos (red flag) and preaching
it is ok (red light alarm). There are many Christians saying homosexuality is ok (nuclear melt down alarm).

How did they church get to this point? From the Bible most of you read. If it isn't inspired by God then it is inspired
by something else. When you accept that false Bible, you place yourself under authority of the spirit that did inspire it.
It then can operate in your life because you gave it authority. It will seduce you and deceive you (1 Tim 4:1)

I didn't post the original message in order to debate or discuss. I made it very clear if you had any disagreements, or dislikes, or
questions to go directly to the Lord. Why didn't you go question Him instead of trying to debate me? (red flag)
What I shared with you, I got from Him. Any disagreements are with the Lord. You don't debate and argue your
power bill with the mailman. You got to call the power company.

In these last days when Christians are falling into spiritual deception on a mass scale, each and every Christian
needs to go to the Lord and find out what is wrong with their spiritual walk. You really wont have to ask which
Bible to use because He will put you in the correct one before He even starts to tell you where you are in error
and begins to teach you. You simply can not start to change things in the USA and world if you are a victim of
the same problem. Matthew 7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou
see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
If I didn't tell you what the Lord shared with me, I would be held accountable. I used God's word and pointed you to the
Lord if you had problems with what was said. Stop trying to be intellectual Christians and start being spirit lead Christians.
Its Christianity 101,...basic stuff. The intellect can be spiritually deceived. I've told you to seek the Lord, presented some
warning signs where you may have spiritual problems, told you to look at the world's stage to prove that there are more Christians
with problems than you may realize. What are the odds that you haven't been affected? The smart move would be to go to the Lord
and find out. You can sit and debate the Bible while the country collaspes or you can go to the Lord and let Him help you and then
start making a difference. The choice is yours, but you will be held accountable. All I've done is try to help you, but it is time to move on.
 
Trax, I understand that you feel that God has told you that The King James bible is the only inspired bible and the only one you should be reading.

I would like to ask you to take a look at something else you mentioned. For example, talking about the rapture with Christians. You bring up the fact that there are many different opinions about the rapture among Christians. Now, do you think that the proponents of these different rapture doctrines have prayed to God asking for guidance? Do you think many of them are just as sure about their doctrine concerning the rapture as you are about your doctrine concerning the exclusivity of The King James bible? I think it would be foolish to assume that your the only born-again believer who feels that God has directed you to some doctrine... and there are born-again believers who feel God has directed them to the opposite doctrine!

I appreciate you taking your time to write thoughtful responses. Your logic is sound, and you make very good points about praying to God, trusting God, and seeking The Holy Spirit. However, you are really begging the question... IS the king james bible the only inspired bible? if so, which edition? the original edition from 1611? I doubt you read that edition. If its not the original, then why do you accept a translation? Isnt the whole point of your belief that translations necessarily lose inspiration?

I know many people think it does, but the old english found in the king james that sounds all fancy and spiritual and mystical doesnt actually add anything to the scriptures.

There are many translations of the bible that have been translated by born-again believers who sought the will of God and followed The Holy Spirit in their work of translating.
 
The pre-tribulation rapture of the dispensationalist Church, if that is what is meant above by the rapture, is not the fundamental starting point of dispensationalism. Yet whether the pre-trib rapture is accurate prophecy or not depends on its place within the system of doctrines in dispensatrionalism, and not upon scripture. I Thessalonians 4: 13-17 describes the second coming of Christ and says in verse 17 that those who are alive then will be caught up together to meet him in the air. But I Thessalonians 4: 13-17 does not give any time indication for when this is to happen. As is often the case with scripture, verses from different places must be put together, as directed in Isaiah 28: 10 - "For precept must be upon precept....line upon line: here a little, and there a little."

I Corinthians 15: 50-54, in verse 52 says Christ will appear at the last trump, or last trumpet, "for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed." There are verses in the Gospel of John where Christ says he will raise those who are his at the last day. He says in John 6: 39 that he will raise up those the Father has given him at the last day. In John 6: 40 he says every one who believes on him he will raise up at the last day. John 6: 44 says Christ will raise up at the last day those the Father has has sent to him. Then, Christ says in John 6: 54 that "Whoso eateth of my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day." But many who had before followed Christ, on hearing this walked no more with him.John (6; 66). They probably took eating his flesh and drinking his blood literally and having little spiritual discernment, rejected Christ as the Messiah.

But many in dispensationalism will argue against I Corinthians 15: 52, and the several verses in John 6 giving some indication of when Christ will appear, and will follow dispensationalist doctrine rather than scripture. Likewise, many who have been taught to use the new Bible versions will reject the three older English translations - the Tyndale, Geneva and King James - and find their reasons for making arguments against these old Bibles where the New Testament is from the Textus Receptus.
 
""Question: "What is the Textus Receptus?"

Answer:
The Textus Receptus (Latin for “Received Text”) is a Greek New Testament that provided the textual base for the vernacular translations of the Reformation Period. It was a printed text, not a hand-copied manuscript, created in the 15th century to fill the need for a textually accurate Greek New Testament. As the Christian message was carried abroad, the books of the New Testament were not only taken along, but also translated into the languages of the people to whom the message was given. In the transmission of the text, copies were made, mostly by Christians who were not trained in the art of the task; therefore, not too much attention was given to the correctness of the copies. As the number of copies in the different languages proliferated, it became apparent that many differences and discrepancies were found in the various versions. Eventually, it became obvious that there was a need for someone to bring textual criticism into play.

Needless to say, the invention of the printing press with movable type in the mid-fifteenth century revolutionized the world of literature. The first Bible to be printed in 1456 was the Latin Vulgate. This was also known by the Gutenberg Bible. Bible scholars at that time were little concerned about the Greek text of the New Testament; the Latin Vulgate was their Bible.

Then in the late fifteenth century, the Greek language—unknown for hundreds of years—was recovered in the West, the geographical area of the Latin Church. With the rediscovery of Greek and its inception as the language of the people, the Latin Vulgate translation was subjected to a critical examination in comparison with the Greek original. Scholars discovered numerous mistranslations or outright errors in the Vulgate. This provided a reason for printing the New Testament in its original language, Greek.

Erasmus, a 15th-century Dutch theologian, working at great speed in order to beat to press another Greek New Testament being prepared in Spain, gathered together what hand-copied Greek manuscripts he could locate. He found five or six, the majority of which were dated in the twelfth century. Working with all the speed he could, Erasmus did not even transcribe the manuscripts; he merely made notes on the manuscripts themselves and sent them to the printers. The entire New Testament was printed in about six to eight months and published in 1516. It became a best seller, despite its errors, and the first printing was soon gone. A second edition was published in 1519 with some of the errors having been corrected.

Erasmus published two other editions in 1527 and 1535. Stung by criticism that his work contained numerous textual errors, he incorporated readings from the Greek New Testament published in Spain in later editions of his work. Erasmus’ Greek text became the standard in the field, and other editors and printers continued the work after his death in 1536. In 1633, another edition was published. In the publisher’s preface, in Latin, we find these words: “Textum ergo habes, nun cab omnibus receptum,” which can be translated as “the [reader] now has the text that is received by all.” From that publisher’s notation have come the words “Received Text.” The Textus Receptus became the dominant Greek text of the New Testament for the following two hundred and fifty years. It was not until the publication of the Westcott and Hort Greek New Testament in 1881 that the Textus Receptus lost its position.

The reason for its losing its prominent position as a basis of biblical textual interpretation was the inception of textual criticism. Influential scholars paved the way for the acceptance of a critical text. The work of Westcott and Hort brought about the final dethronement of the Textus Receptus and the establishment of the principle of a critical text. However, the Textus Receptus is not a “bad” or misleading text, either theologically or practically. Technically, however, it is far from the original text. Yet three centuries were to pass before scholars had won the struggle to replace this hastily assembled text with a text which gave evidence to being closer to the New Testament Autographs.

Many consider the King James Version of the Bible to be the crown of English Bibles. Even at the beginning of the seventeenth century, the Greek text used in preparing the KJV was the Textus Receptus. Both Luther and Tyndale translated the Scriptures into their vernacular languages using the same basic Greek text. Luther used the second edition of the Erasmus New Testament, and Tyndale utilized the third edition.

Regardless of one’s position on the Textus Receptus, it is evident that it had great influence on preserving God’s inspired Word through many centuries. Textual criticism of the Scriptures is so evidently important that all scholars and students of the Word of God need to utilize its principles in order to fulfill the biblical mandate, “Study to show yourselves approved unto God, a workman that needs not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of truth'. (2 Timothy 2:15)"""
 
Re: The original subject of this thread (Which translation/version is correct)

Matthew 23:24 comes to mind, but then that will probably be lost in the translation as well.

IMHO
just-a-servant
 
“Study to show yourselves approved unto God, a workman that needs not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of truth'. (2 Timothy 2:15)"
The quoted verse does not mean what you think it does. It has the following meaning "...to “be eager, be diligent.” ..."
 
The issue of whether the verses that are missing from the new Bible versions - and from the Westcott-Hort Greek text - were added to the Textus Receptus, or the Vaticanus and Sinaiticus Greek texts left them out depends on some scholarship. The Westcott-Hort Greek text is based largely upon the Vaticanus and Sinaiticus texts which are associated with Alexandria, Egypt and the Christian and gnostic theology going on there in that period.

The Greek manuscript basis for the Textus Receptus is said by the scholars to be more recent than the Vaticanus and Sinaiticus used by Westcott and Hort for their 1881 Greek text. This does not necessarily mean the Byzantine Greek text itself is more recent than the Vaticanus and Sinaiticus.
The "scholarship" of Westcott and Hort was mostly a set of assumptions, and among those assumptions was the idea that the shorter verse wordings of the Vaticanus and Sinaiticus indicated these texts were closer to the originals. Another assumption was that the scribes who copied the Byzantine Greek texts over the centuries made mistakes and Westcott and Hort go into details on the type of errors these scribes might have made.
Yet, scholars and other Christians note that the various manuscripts of the Byzantine type show more agreement with one another than do the Vaticanus and Sinaiticus. This suggests the Byzantine scribes did not make the errors in copying that Westcott and Hort claim they might have made.

See: Translations and the Greek Text

There are papyri Greek New Testament manuscript fragments earlier than the fourth-century Vaticanus
and Sinaiticus manuscripts, and most of these have been discovered after
Westcott and Hort's time.


See: http://www.uv.es/~fores/programa/majorityvscritical.html

Many Papyri fragments of the New Testament contain Byzantine readings,
that is, the verse wordings are more similar to the Byzantine Greek
text than to the Alexandarian text, used by Westcott and Hort for
their 1881 Greek text, and from which almost all recent New testrament
versions were translated.

"Harry Sturz discusses these "distinctively Byzantine" readings in his
book, The Byzantine Text-Type and New Testament Textual Criticism."

"The most important of these discoveries was several Egyptian papyri.
Sturz lists "150 distinctively Byzantine readings" found in these
papyri. Included in his list are papyri numbers 13, 45, 46, 47, 49,
59, 66, 72, 74, and 75 (pp.61, 145-159)."

"Sturz brings up another very important point about these papyri,
"They attest the early existence of readings in the Eastern part of
the Roman empire in which the Byzantine and the properly (i.e.
geographically) Western witnesses agree and at the same time are
opposed by the Alexandrian" (p.70). "

What Sturz is saying is that many early Papyri Greek texts agree with
the verse wordings of the Byzantine or Textus Receptus type Greek text
more than with the Alexandrian or Westcott-Hort type Greek text.

"Sturz concludes, "In view of the above, it is concluded that the
papyri supply valid evidence that distinctively Byzantine readings
were not created in the fourth century but were already in existence
before the end of the second century and that, because of this,
Byzantine readings merit serious consideration" (p.69)."

"Aland says all but one of the these early papyri, "... are from Egypt
where the hot, dry sands preserved the papyri through the centuries."
Meanwhile, in Asia Minor and Greece (eastern areas), "... the climate
in these regions has been unfavorable to the preservation of any
papyri from the early period" (pp.59,67)."

The writer of this site then says "So it is not surprising many early
papyri have been found which reflect the Alexandrian text since this
text existed in Egypt. But even some of these Egyptian papyri, as
mentioned above, contain Byzantine and even Western readings."

Westcott and Hort claimed that a criteria for selecting a Greek text
was its shortness, that is, shorter verse wordings, they claimed,
meant the text was older and therefore more 'authentic."

"The papyri discovered since the 1890's are the Oxyrhynchus papyri in
1896ff., Chester Beatty papyri in 1930-31, and Bodmer papyri in
1956ff. They represent a 600 percent increase,[86] and 31 are pre-300
a.d.[87] The more important ones (P45, P46, P47, P66, P72, and
P75--these are equivalent to one-third B text and represent every New
Testament book except 1 and 2 Timothy)[88] represent a several
thousand percent increase as far as their importance."

"The finding of many early papyri New Testament texts in the twentieth
century has shown that the Byzantine, the text behind the Textus
Receptus, has very early support."

"Zuntz also found P46 to be a witness to the existence of Byzantine
readings in the second century."

That is, in the second century A.D. there were Byzantine type verse
wordings in existence as shown by a few Papyri from that period. This
does not necessarily mean that the Byzantine wordings, probably
originating in Antioch, Syria, did not exist in ever earlier times.

"Zuntz concludes his study of the epistle's text by stating that after
around 150 b.c. the oldest papyri "rather suddenly . . . give a text
which substantially agrees with that of the extant Byzantine
manuscripts."[95] Thus Zuntz acknowledges that the Byzantine readings
"are far older than the manuscripts which attest them."

The writer of this site then points out that "When one considers that
there are only a minority of the various text-types that vary, they
all must have a common ancestor. Thus those who reject the Byzantine
text do not have an easy task to prove their position. Their position
is much more difficult than Hort thought."

"Early Church Fathers' quotations do not support Westcott-Hort's text
either. This is even recognized by those who do not support the TR.
(Textus Receptus) Price, who does not support the TR, when writing
about recent progress in textual criticism, said, "The Westcott-Hort
'Neutral' text was found to be practically without support in the
earliest fathers."
 
I didn't post the original message in order to debate or discuss. I made it very clear if you had any disagreements, or dislikes, or
questions to go directly to the Lord. Why didn't you go question Him instead of trying to debate me? (red flag)
What I shared with you, I got from Him. Any disagreements are with the Lord. You don't debate and argue your
power bill with the mailman. You got to call the power company.
Message received thanks,I like asking him questions all the time.

I learned some history from the responses also.
 
I used God's word and pointed you to the
Lord if you had problems with what was said. Stop trying to be intellectual Christians and start being spirit lead Christians.
Its Christianity 101,...basic stuff. The intellect can be spiritually deceived. I've told you to seek the Lord, presented some
warning signs where you may have spiritual problems, told you to look at the world's stage to prove that there are more Christians
with problems than you may realize. What are the odds that you haven't been affected? The smart move would be to go to the Lord
and find out. You can sit and debate the Bible while the country collaspes or you can go to the Lord and let Him help you and then
start making a difference. The choice is yours, but you will be held accountable. All I've done is try to help you, but it is time to move on.

So what makes you the 'mailman' and the intellectual one to come here typing this, "while the country collapses"? Shouldn't you be praying for revival and sharing the Gospel, aka the Great Commission that Christ taught us to do? He did not say go and tell people which "correct" bible to read. He said preach the Good News.

Matthew 28:16-20
The Great Commission
16 Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed them. 17 And when they saw him they worshiped him, but some doubted. 18 And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them ina]">[a] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”
 
Which translation will we use, is any one translation better than any other translation?

All Bible translations have shortfalls, all Bible translations have errors.

What follows is a failure of the KJV translation to correctly translate the Greek text.

King James Bible
For if Jesus (G2424) had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.

New American Standard Bible
For if Joshua (G2424) had given them rest, He would not have spoken of another day after that.

The Greek word can mean either 'Jesus' or 'Joshua', so which translation is correct?

Full marks if you chose the second translation, the NASB. Anyone who chose the KJV actually
has chosen a corrupt translation of the Greek text.

Keep it simple folks.
 
The top 3 ways of accepted thinking for choosing a Bible are:

You only need one Bible version because:

This is what happens when many Christians read from polluted Bibles:

Hello Trax,
As you can see you have provided listings for the processes not to use in choosing a Bible.
Now you need to list the processes for choosing one.
i.e.
1. Pray
2. Revealed/Revelation
3..........................4.....................5....................

You'll find that people will remember the listings. So providing them one for how to, might be beneficial.

Also, if you are to use a word like "revelation" like I did above in number 2 or inspired as you have. Then don't assume everyone will know what you are saying. Break it down for them. For I'm sure you did not start this thread to reach the learned at TJ (Not me for sure!), but to reach those who are starting out or are confused by the variety out there. But then maybe you can include the learned in this as well :)

The original post has been thought provoking if a bit long. :whistle

Thanks and blessings!
YBIC
C4E
 
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