Welcome!

By registering with us, you'll be able to discuss, share and private message with other members of our community.

SignUp Now!
  • Welcome to Talk Jesus Christian Forums

    Celebrating 20 Years!

    A bible based, Jesus Christ centered community.

    Register Log In

The Covenant Confirmed

Those who openly and obviously reject the scriptures regarding Israel's future end time inclusions as a nation, that He is finished with them, and also claim that the Lord came back in the first century .... and "it all happened in 70 A.D." .... are definitely "anti-Christ" [against Jesus Christ]

This ranting is the hallmark of preterism .... a dangerous and deceptive teaching

Do not let the teachers of preterism deceive you .... these are the scoffers of the last days and the Lord warns about them .... those who would come in His name and deceive many .... they are here
 
The covenant confirmed in Daniel 9 has to be the covenant of the 70 weeks of years decreed for Israel in the context of the chapter .... there is no other covenant described

Howdy Stephen1!

The Covenant in Daniel 9:27 is the Covenant of the Tribulation period.

Stephen1--.... and there is no indication that this covenant is some sort of peace treaty between Israel and the nation's enemies
What gives you this impression? This Covenant is confirmed at the beginning of the Tribulation period. Not before, Nor after. Have you considered the writings of the Apostle Paul?

1 Thessalonians 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

They? Who are they? Who shall say PEACE AND SAFETY? Then sudden destruction cometh upon them...and they shall not escape.

They...are the Seed of Jacob multiplied as the dust of the earth who enter into the Tribulation period as the Children of darkness because they are still blinded to the Truth of the Gospel of the Kingdom.

Stephen1--Only the Lord can confirm this covenant by executing the 70th week .... thereby reaching the 6 objectives for the believing remnant of Israel who will turn to Him during His hour [time] of trial
Well, with all due respect, This point has never been proven, Scripturally. Daniel 9:26 clearly shows that Christ was cut off before Daniel 9:27a occurs.

Therefore, Christ would have to come back to this earth, appear in Jerusalem, confirm this covenant with the children of darkness ONE WEEK, and one week only, then leave and go back to Heaven.

The Bible never shows this event occurring with Jesus Christ according to the Law of God.

Stephen1--Visionary prophecy must be read carefully and in this case [Daniel 9:26-27] one needs to see that there are two princes involved .... the Lord .... and the other prince

It is the Lord who was cut off at the end of the 69th week
Yes, The Lord was cut off at the end of the 69th Week. After this, He said He would sit at the right hand of the Father. He did not say, after He was cut off that He would confirm a covenant one week.

God's Covenant making is Eternal. Always has and always will be. Never One Week. Satan's covenant's are never eternal. They are always short lived. This is a powerful clue to whom the he is in Daniel 9:27a. Secondly, God never breaks a Covenant. Never. Satan cannot be trusted.

Can you just imagine? Salvation is only confirmed with those who believe One Week. If God can confirm this covenant of Daniel 9:27a one week, What do you think God can do with Salvation? All of us would be really messed up if that was the case. None of us would make it to Heaven.

Stephen1--Then it is the other prince and His followers who will come and desecrate [at the middle of thefuture 70th week]
Well, The Romans desecrated in 70 AD, too. See Daniel 9:26b precisely 40 years after Matthew 24:2 was prophesied by Jesus Christ.

Stephen1--The vision then repeats this same contrast

The Lord ["He"] confirms the covenant [the other prince cannot do this and would not because of the objectives that will be met]
Well, You know the deal. Where is your Scripture reference? Just saying it doesn't make it true. God has to back you up. With no backup from God, Then What we have is just your biased opinion.

Romans 3:3 For what if some did not believe? Shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
Romans 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.


I encourage you to overcome and post some Scripture references.

God Bless You!
 
"Well, You know the deal. Where is your Scripture reference? Just saying it doesn't make it true. God has to back you up. With no backup from God, Then What we have is just your biased opinion."

>I should tell you the same .... should I not?

>I have been threatened by two moderators on this form to cease from disagreeing with other posters .... so I will post no longer on "TalkJesus" and you can find someone else to banter with

>Apparently the rules apply to only certain individulals .... and not others
 
Last edited:
Jesus confirms, Prince in vs 26 is not the subject

Using English grammar because we are reading the Bible in English. The subject of the second half to verse 26 is the people not the prince. It's like saying the disciples of Christ are coming. Disciples is the subject not Christ.

Dan 9:24
24 Seventy weeks (Numbers 14:34, Ezekiel 4:4-6) are determined upon thy people (Acts 3:25-26, 13:46, Roms 1:16)and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression (Isa 53:5, Roms 4:15-16, 5:14-21, Heb 2:2,1 John 3:4-6), and to make an end of sins (Rom chapter 6, 2 Cor 5:21, 1 Pet 2:24, Heb 10:12-14) and to make reconciliation for iniquity, (Rom 5:8-10, 2 Corinthians 5:18-19, Co 1:20, Hebrews 2:17) and to bring in everlasting righteousness, (Rom 8:1-4, Heb 1:8, 2 Corin 5:21), and to seal (2856 chatham (khaw-tham'); a primitive root; to close up; especially to seal: KJV-- make an end, mark, seal (up), stop)up the vision and prophecy, (Matt 5:17, Acts 3:18, Heb 8:10-13), and to anoint the most Holy. (Luke 4:18-21)

Dan 9:27
27 And he shall confirm the covenant (Matt 26:28, Mrk 14:24, Lk 22:20, 1 Corin 11:25, 2 Corin 3:6, 14, Heb 7:22,9:15-20, 10:16-23) with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, (Heb Chapter 9 & 10(10: 18, 26) and for the overspreading of abominations
(Prov 15:8 The sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination to the LORD: but the prayer of the upright is his delight.
Prov 21:27 The sacrifice of the wicked is abomination: how much more, when he bringeth it with a wicked mind?
Deut 17:1 Thou shalt not sacrifice unto the LORD thy God any bullock, or sheep, wherein is blemish, or any evilfavouredness: for that is an abomination unto the LORD thy God. I King 11:5 For Solomon went after Ashtoreth the goddess of the Zidonians, and after Milcom the abomination of the Ammonites.
IKing 11:7 Then did Solomon build an high place for Chemosh, the abomination of Moab, in the hill that is before Jerusalem, and for Molech, the abomination of the children of Ammon.
II Ki 23:13 And the high places that were before Jerusalem, which were on the right hand of the mount of corruption, which Solomon the king of Israel had builded for Ashtoreth the abomination of the Zidonians, and for Chemosh the abomination of the Moabites, and for Milcom the abomination of the children of Ammon, did the king defile.
Prov 11:20 They that are of a froward heart are abomination to the LORD: but such as are upright in their way are his delight.
Prov 12:22 Lying lips are abomination to the LORD: but they that deal truly are his delight.
Prov 15:26 The thoughts of the wicked are an abomination to the LORD: but the words of the pure are pleasant words.
Prov 16:5 Every one that is proud in heart is an abomination to the LORD: though hand join in hand, he shall not be unpunished.
Prov 17:15 He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the LORD.
Prov 28:9 He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination.)
(Lev 10:1 And Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took either of them his censer, and put fire therein, and put incense thereon, and offered strange fire before the LORD, which he commanded them not.) he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
 
Jesus Christ DOES NOT CONFIRM in Daniel 9:27a

Using English grammar because we are reading the Bible in English. The subject of the second half to verse 26 is the people not the prince. It's like saying the disciples of Christ are coming. Disciples is the subject not Christ.

Howdy Bambi!

I want you to know that I have read your post. But, I think we need to look at something many people overlook. First of all, Let us look at Daniel 9:24...

Daniel 9:24 (in part) Seventy Weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city,

***First point--Seventy Weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city.

What does this mean? This literally means that the Nation of Israel has 490 years (70 x 7 years) to accomplish the Mission God has called them to do before Christ sets up His Millennial Reign for 1000 years in Jerusalem.

Question: What has God called the Nation of Israel to do?

Answer: God has called the Nation of Israel to be a Kingdom of Priests and a Holy Nation. See Exodus 19:5-6.

Daniel 9:24 (continued) to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make a reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Just look at these objectives for a moment. Let them sink into your brain. Then, Let them sizzle for awhile. Now, Ask yourself this question...Who can accomplish all of these objectives set forth for Israel?

Answer: Jesus Christ. The Son of the Ever Living God.

Question: When will Christ complete all of these objectives in
Daniel 9:24? Well, Let us continue examining this passage and see what we find.

Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

So, We have a commandment given to rebuild the City of Jerusalem. This command came from King Artaxerxes, The King of Persia, in the Old Testament found in The Book of Nehemiah when Nehemiah was given permission to go back to Jerusalem to rebuild the City Walls. See Nehemiah 2:1 to Nehemiah 6:15. The City Walls were built in 52 days after some trouble.

Also, Ezra was given permission first, before Nehemiah, in the 7th Year Reign of King Artaxerxes. You can find this in the Book of Ezra 7:1-28. Ezra rebuilt the City and Nehemiah at a later time rebuilt the City Walls. Keeping in mind that these events took place before Christ was born.

Question: At this point in time, Has the objectives set forth in Daniel 9:24 been met yet?

Answer: Nope! We are half way through this Prophecy. And, No fulfillment as of yet. Fascinating isn't.

Ok. Break time. The Birth of Christ has occurred. It is now 4 BC. Mary and Joseph bring Christ to the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem to be Circumcised on the eighth day in accordance with the Law of Moses and the Covenant of Circumcision. We have to wait a little while. I will be back.

My, my, my. How time flies. It is now approximately 9 BC and Christ has His first barmitzvah at the age of 13 years of age. Christ becomes a Man under Jewish Law. The Following year in 10 BC, Rome conquers Greece and begins ruling over Israel.

Shiloh became a man in 9 BC and Israel loses its scepter and the Law giver because Shiloh, that is Jesus Christ, has come fulfilling Genesis 49:10.

Ok. Second break time. Why another break? Because, The Bible is silent here on the life of Jesus Christ until He turns 30 years old.

However, The Bible does say that Mary and Joseph moved to Egypt for a little while as told to do so by the angel after Christ's Birth until the danger of Herod was over and then the angel told Joseph to come back to the Land of Israel.

They moved to Nazareth from Egypt. Mary and Joseph kept the Feast of Passover every year while they lived in Nazareth. They would travel every year for this Feast to Jerusalem. And, The Bible says that Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and man. Luke 2:52.

In about 25 AD, John the Baptist begins His Ministry to Israel, see Matthew 3:1-3, and Jesus Christ is waiting in the wings to come to John the Baptist to be Baptized in the River Jordan. Christ is now about 28 years old.

When Christ came to John the Baptist to be baptized, Christ was 30 years old to begin His earthly Ministry in fulfillment of Jewish Law. See Numbers 4:3. Christ's Ministry began about 27 AD.

Now, Christ conducts His earthly ministry for 3 years and before He dies on the cross institutes the New Blood Covenant. See Matthew 26:26-30. After this, Christ is crucified on the cross and dies in 30 AD. This point brings us up to Daniel 9:26a.

Daniel 9:26a (in part) And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself:

On the 50th Day after His crucifixion, Christ leaves this earth for the second time and goes to Heaven and sits at the right hand of the Father. Then Christ sends the Holy Spirit and Acts 2 occurs.

Question:
Have the objectives in Daniel 9:24 been met yet?

Answer: Nope! Well, Wait a minute. Wait, Wait, Wait.

Question: Didn't Christ's death on the cross make an end of sins?

Answer: Nope. Why? Do people still sin? Yes. Is the Gospel of Salvation still preached? Yes. Does the Gospel preached include forgiveness of Sin? Yes.

Conclusion: Since people still sin, then, Christ's death on the cross did not make an end of sins. Because, People still sin. People still steal. People still lie. People still put God last instead of First. People still teach false doctrines today. Since One objective has not been met yet, Then all of the objectives have not been met yet...for Israel.

Why? Because, This Prophecy was given to the Nation of Israel through Daniel. Second, They were blinded for rejecting Jesus Christ. See Romans 11:8. Christ cannot fulfill the objectives in Daniel 9:24 until Israel calls upon Him. See Matthew 23:39 and Zechariah 13:9.

Now, Daniel 9:26 (continued) and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

The City of Jerusalem and the Jewish Temple were destroyed in 70 AD fulfilling the prophecy of Jesus Christ in Matthew 24:2. This brings us up to Daniel 9:27 which is still future.

Christ does not fulfill the objectives of Daniel 9:24 until after Daniel 9:27 is complete. Because, Just before Daniel 9:27 is complete, Matthew 23:39 and Zechariah 13:9 will occur by the Remnant that flees to the wilderness. See Revelation 12:6.

Therefore, Daniel 9:27a is not about Jesus Christ. Daniel 9:27a is about the man of sin of 2 Thessalonians 2:3. How do I know this for sure?

Because, The fleeing Remnant of Israel in the Tribulation period does not call upon Jesus at the beginning of the Tribulation period. They call upon Jesus near the very end of the Tribulation period.

Now, For those of you who are bent on teaching that Christ confirms the covenant with many one week in Daniel 9:27a, You must show this in the New Testament. Why? See Matthew 5:17-18.

Christ fulfills the Law and Christ fulfills Old Testament Prophecy. You have got to show the verses that back you up. When you find out that you can't show any New Testament verses, Then your teaching is FALSE!!!

Have a nice day!
 
MA1--"Well, You know the deal. Where is your Scripture reference? Just saying it doesn't make it true. God has to back you up. With no backup from God, Then What we have is just your biased opinion."
>I should tell you the same .... should I not?

Howdy Stephen1!

Well, Of course you can. I do try, when I make a very important point on Bible Prophecy, to back up what I say with Scripture. When You find a failure to do this on my part, I would expect you to say something. Yes, I would.

Stephen-->I have been threatened by two moderators on this form to cease from disagreeing with other posters .... so I will post no longer on "TalkJesus" and you can find someone else to banter with

>Apparently the rules apply to only certain individulals .... and not others
No, The very same rules apply to everyone here. If you were threatened, I am sorry that happened to you. But, Please remember this. Moderators are here for a purpose and they have a very tough job to do.

And, Moderators are just as human as you and I are. They are not perfect. They will make mistakes. So, I encourage you to stay and banter as you say with me and whomever you choose.

And for the Moderators, Pray for them. They do not have an easy job. They need all of the prayers that they can get from us. They also understand, I believe, that certain discussions/debates can get heated.

So, Think about cutting them some slack. Ok? I am certain that they would appreciate that.

God Bless You Friend!
 
>I have been threatened by two moderators on this form to cease from disagreeing with other posters .... so I will post no longer on "TalkJesus" and you can find someone else to banter with

>Apparently the rules apply to only certain individulals .... and not others

Brother Steven1 i replied to you on these accusations about them mods in the tread you posted called Beware of the False Teacher.

You were not rebuked or told anything about disagreeing with other members. You were warned in here not to call people false teachers because of differing views on prophecy.

Preterist i would suppose is excluded because we know for sure that that is a well known heresy in Christian ranks.

As far as Pre-trib Mid-trib or Post-trib or any trib, we discuss this here in an unbiased way (at least i do or try:). Because we are not one hundred percent sure on how all of these views will come down the pipe.

Hope that clears that up. As far as the Amil belief i disagree with it. But i would discuss it on here, hoping it won't become the norm as i see on some sites.



2Ti 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,


If we follow the above instruction given by Paul we should do well, not just online where it is definitely needed. But also if you have a flock of your own sheep.

I have copy's of what them mods said to you, and there is nothing in them that is telling you not to disagree with other posters or mods brother. One says play nice at the end, but this involves you being too dogmatic about your views and beliefs...


God bless brother
 
Last edited:
Dan 9:27
27 And he shall confirm the covenant (Matt 26:28, Mrk 14:24, Lk 22:20, 1 Corin 11:25, 2 Corin 3:6, 14, Heb 7:22,9:15-20, 10:16-23) with many for one week:

Howdy Bambi!

I just wanted you to know that you have chosen the wrong Covenant for Daniel 9:27a. Daniel 9:27a is quite clear and very understandable. The Covenant in this verse is confirmed one week.

You have posted the wrong Covenant. The Covenant that you posted in 1 Corinthians 11:25 is an Eternal Covenant. This Covenant described by the Apostle Paul, which is the New Blood Covenant established by Jesus Christ before He died on the cross, was written by the Apostle Paul in about 59 AD.

59AD is 29 years after the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. 29 years DOES NOT EQUAL 1 Week. I just thought you might like to know this little tidbit of information.

Now, If you don't mind, Would like to go back to the New Testament and try again? Maybe, You will find the right Covenant this time. I will give you a clue here. You need to look for the Covenant that Jesus Christ confirms after He died because the confirmation in Daniel 9:27a occurs after the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Not the Eternal Covenant He established before He died. Now, See what you can come up with.

Thank you!
 
Last edited:
Back
Top