The Lord's 2 anointed witnesses

[StewardoftheMystery]

Which brings us to the Lords 2 witnesses in Revelation 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.”

Many believe the 2 witnesses, 2 Olive trees, or 2 candlesticks are 2 single individual men like Moses and Elijah. But when you understand the time of 1,260 days to be symbolic of time, then perhaps you’ll search it out. This sign of God’s 2 witnesses prophesying 42 months is also shown in the 42 generations the law and the prophets did prophesy until John; as Jesus also confirmed. I went over this “sign of time” in other studies so I won’t get back into that right now.

But I will give you scriptural proof just who these 2 anointed witnesses are, if you can receive it.

Notice in Zechariah 4:3 the “two Olive trees” mentioned feed the Oil to the two candlesticks, which in turn lighten His 7 lamps.

Zechariah 4:1-6 “And the angel that talked with me came again, and waked me, as a man that is wakened out of his sleep. 2 And said unto me, What seest thou? And I said, I have looked, and behold a candlestick all of gold, with a bowl upon the top of it, and his seven lamps thereon, and seven pipes to the seven lamps, which are upon the top thereof:3 And two olive trees by it, one upon the right side of the bowl, and the other upon the left side thereof.4 So I answered and spake to the angel that talked with me, saying, What are these, my lord?5 Then the angel that talked with me answered and said unto me, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.

6 Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the Lord unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the Lord of hosts.”

The angel answered Zechariahs question in verse 6 as to who these 2 were, but Zechariah missed it because he asks the angel again in verse 12; Zechariah 4:12 And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?

And the angel once again tells him these are the “two anointed ones” that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.

And these 2 anointed ones are God’s Word and Spirit, ( mentioned in verse 6) which feed the Oil (Spirit) to the 7 lamps.

But let’s take this mystery step by step …

First notice the two olive tree branches feed the oil to the 7 pipes, which in turn light the 7 lamps. (Zech 4:2)

Then notice in Zech 4:10 the angel tells Zechariah that those 7 lamps are the 7 eyes of the Lord.

Zechariah 4:10 “For who hath despised the day of small things? for they shall rejoice, and shall see the plummet in the hand of Zerubbabel with those seven; they are the eyes of the Lord, which run to and fro through the whole earth.”

Now before I go any further let me say this for sure, there is no literal flesh and blood man, or men who are in control of, or even feed the Oil (Holy Spirit) to the 7 eyes of the Lord.

Notice here the 7 lamps are shown as the 7 spirits of God (7 eyes of the Lord)

Revelation 4:5 And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.

Now here again we are shown the 7 eyes (same as the 7 lamps, which are the 7 spirits of God)

Zechariah 3:9 “For behold the stone that I have laid before Joshua; upon one stone shall be seven eyes: behold, I will engrave the graving thereof, saith the LORD of hosts, and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day.”

And again we see the angel talking about those 7 lamps (7 eyes / 7 spirits of God) whom the 2 anointed feed the Oil (Spirit) into.

Zechariah 4:10 “For who hath despised the day of small things? for they shall rejoice, and shall see the plummet in the hand of Zerubbabel with those seven; they are the eyes of the LORD, which run to and fro through the whole earth.”

And then finally we see the One stone (Precious Stone/Rock) on which those 7 eyes (7 spirits of God) would be in Revelation 5:6 “And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.”


So you see it is the Lord's Word and Spirit (2 anointed ones) that feed the oil to lighten the 7 lamps ( 7 eyes / 7 spirits of God). And so who bears witness in heaven? The Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit. And here we see the One stone that would bear witness of Himself (Word) along with the Fathers (Spirit) who would also bear witness of Him.

John 8:18 “I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.”

And those who are born of Him also have this same witness dwelling in themselves.

1 John 5:10 “He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: “

Jesus Christ is the true and faithful witness that dwells in all his anointed saints, and that is how the Father speaks His words to the world, by Christ dwelling in His saints; or God’s Word and Spirit in us. (2 witnesses are in us)

We see this in Isaiah 59:21 “As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the Lord; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the Lord, from henceforth and for ever.”

These are those who have the testimony of Jesus Christ “in” them, for the testimony of Jesus Christ is the Spirit of prophecy. God said in Isaiah 8:16 that He would bind up the Testimony and seal the law in His disciples. This is like the sign of the law and prophets that prophesied for 42 generations leading up to Jesus Christ.

And the sign of the 2 witnesses being killed, is the sign of the saints who have the Lords 2 witnesses dwelling in them being killed.
To be continued...

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

Now, let’s move on to other questions that may arise about the 2 witnesses, such as verse 5….

Revelation 11:5 “And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.”

The answer to this mystery is shown in Jeremiah 5:14 “Wherefore thus saith the Lord God of hosts, Because ye speak this word, behold, I will make my words in thy mouth fire, and this people wood, and it shall devour them.”

In Revelation 11:6 we read “These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.”

We know men, “by God’s power” have done such things in the scriptures, but there again, only God can do these things by way of His Word and Spirit working “in” those men. Like Jesus said, it is the Father who does the works.

We see in Revelation 11:7 “And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.” (he kills the saints)

We see this same language used here in Revelation 12:17 “And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.”

The woman represents the spiritual Israel of God, or the spiritual seed of Christ, (Body of Christ) which is made up of many members (saints). Also notice that verse says they “have the testimony of Jesus Christ” so they have the Lords witness “in” themselves.

Also in Revelation 11:7 we are told the beast would overcome them, and kill them, which is also shown in scripture. Revelation 13:7 “And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

This killing of the saints was also shown in Daniel 7:21”

I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;” And also here in Daniel 8:24 “And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.”

And then also in Revelation 11:8 we read “And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.”

This verse may be harder for people to grasp, but we know thus far we are talking about a group of people (saints being killed), and we are also talking about a “spiritual place” called Sodom and Egypt. As we know the Lord was not crucified literally in Sodom or Egypt; but this is also symbolic. Spiritually speaking, the Lord compared Jerusalem and it’s people to Sodom in Isaiah 1:10, and also in Jeremiah 23:14.

So let’s confirm by scripture the Lords people (saints) as being killed, and their bodies as lying in the streets.

Isaiah 51:23 “But I will put it into the hand of them that afflict thee; which have said to thy soul, Bow down, that we may go over: and thou hast laid thy body as the ground, and as the street, to them that went over.”

Same wording here in Psalm 79:2-3 2 The dead bodies of thy servants have they given to be meat unto the fowls of the heaven, the flesh of thy saints unto the beasts of the earth.3 Their blood have they shed like water round about Jerusalem; and there was none to bury them.”

And that is the same wording we see in Revelation 11:9 “and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves”


Just as Christ was crucified for the sins of the world, and we also with Him are “crucified to the world”. Galatians 6:14 “But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.” So spiritually speaking we are also “dead to the world”.

Back in Revelation 11:9 we read “And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half,…” This is also hard for some to grasp, but to the world we are already dead, because we do not “live” after the lusts of the flesh like them. Just as we are told in Romans 8:13 “For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do put to death the deeds of the body, ye shall live.” So again, spiritually speaking we are “dead” to the world.

This sign of time 3 days and a half was also shown in Hosea 6:2 “After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.”

So again Hosea was not talking about a literal 3 days and a half, or else that prophecy would have been fulfilled 3 and a half days after Hosea uttered those words. Again the language is very symbolic and must be discerned by the Spirit.

In Revelation 11:10 “And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

This is the sign of how God’s Word and Spirit (which is Light) torments the children of darkness (seed of evil doers) because it bears witness of their sins.

Here we see the evil spirits fearing that torment by the Sons (Word of God) presence. Mark 5:7 “And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not.”

So that’s why the world would be merry and rejoicing over the removal of those 2 witnesses (law and testimony) in their lives; because those 2 witnesses bear witness to their conscience that sin is evil.

Even in this day and age we are seeing how Gods words and commandments are being removed from public places and in society. The truth is being cast aside to the ground and trampled on like the street, and lawlessness is being embraced by many over that of righteousness. Jesus told us the world would “rejoice” during this time, but we would be in sorrow.

This trampling under foot God’s Word of Truth is also shown here in Hebrews 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden underfoot the Son of God”.

And in Daniel 8:12 “And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.”

“It” in that verse is the spirit of a lie working in many deceivers. “It” is what bruises the head of the serpent and the heads of his seed. But that is for another study.

And so lies were forecast to practice and prosper in this world, and the Truth and God’s people would to be trampled on “like” the streets. This sign also has to do with the wearing out of the saints, and scattering the power of the holy people, as we see below.

Daniel 7:25 “And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.”


Daniel 12:7 “And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

This spiritual war against God’s people and against the testimony of Jesus Christ is also shown in the war against the Lamb in Revelation 17:14 “These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.”

So this is not just talking about a physical war on the saints, but a spiritual war that takes place in the hearts and minds of the saints. Remember our battle is not against flesh and blood, but rather spiritual wickedness.

And then finally in Revelation 11:11-12 11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.”

This is the sign of the dead in Christ being raised up first. 1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:”

And then notice the wording in the next verse in 1 Thessalonians 4:17 “Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”

Did you catch that? The same wording in Rev. 11:12 and in 1 Thess. 4:17 is shown in both accounts of being caught up “in the clouds”. Notice Paul said the dead in Christ shall rise first, and then notice the timing of when the 2 dead witnesses ascended up. It is right before the 7thangel (last trump) sounded in Revelation 11:15.

So I believe this is showing the ressurection of the saints, who have God’s 2 anointed witnesses “in” them; which is God’s Word and Spirit.


Peace and God bless

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

Isaiah 8:20
To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

I would advise all to stick with the KJV because the wording is very important to understanding.

The book of Revelation is very symbolic, and one needs to pay close attention to the wording because that is where you will find the clues you need in other parts of scripture to help you unlock the many mysteries found in God's words. But it is only by the Holy Spirit one can receive this understanding into the mystery. God's 2 witnesses (Word and Spirit) are "in" all his saints, it is the bodies of the saints that are lying in the streets of this "spiritual" city. Just as God's saints are also referred to in scripture as the "holy city" and as Jerusalem and Zion.

Notice the wording....

Revelation 11:7-9 "And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. (war against the saints who have the testimony of Jesus Christ in them)8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which "spiritually" is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves."

Now compare the above to the wording below here.....


Isaiah 51:16-23
16 And I have put my words in thy mouth, and I have covered thee in the shadow of mine hand, that I may plant the heavens, and lay the foundations of the earth, and say unto Zion, Thou art my people.
17 Awake, awake, stand up, O Jerusalem, which hast drunk at the hand of the Lord the cup of his fury; thou hast drunken the dregs of the cup of trembling, and wrung them out.
18 There is none to guide her among all the sons whom she hath brought forth; neither is there any that taketh her by the hand of all the sons that she hath brought up.
19 These two things are come unto thee; who shall be sorry for thee? desolation, and destruction, and the famine, and the sword: by whom shall I comfort thee?
20 Thy sons have fainted, they lie at the head of all the streets, as a wild bull in a net: they are full of the fury of the Lord, the rebuke of thy God.
21 Therefore hear now this, thou afflicted, and drunken, but not with wine:
22 Thus saith thy Lord the Lord, and thy God that pleadeth the cause of his people, Behold, I have taken out of thine hand the cup of trembling, even the dregs of the cup of my fury; thou shalt no more drink it again:
23 But I will put it into the hand of them that afflict thee; which have said to thy soul, Bow down, that we may go over: and thou hast laid thy body as the ground, and as the street, to them that went over."

The above verses show the first tribulation of the Jews and the days of vengeance upon God’s people, but notice this cup of fury is taken from them and then given to the Nations. Also notice above God calls his people Zion, and Jerusalem (the holy city), and they lie in the streets of this "spiritual" place, and then God tells them to awake as in the resurrection; like the bodies of the 2 witnesses in the streets.

Now notice the wording again....

Revelation 11:11
And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

Compare to....

Hosea 6:2
After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

Revelation 11:9 "And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

Again compare spiritual things with spiritual……

Psalm 79:2-3 "The dead bodies of thy servants have they given to be meat unto the fowls of the heaven, the flesh of thy saints unto the beasts of the earth.3 Their blood have they shed like water round about Jerusalem; and there was none to bury them."

Also notice what Paul says here concerning the killing of the prophets of God…

Romans 11 “I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,
3 Lord, they have killed "thy prophets", and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself "seven thousand" men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5 Even so then at this present time also there is "a remnant" according to the election of grace.”

Again compare the wording used in Revelation concerning "the prophets" killed, the "seven thousand" men, and "the remnant"….

Revelation 11:10-13 “And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men "seven thousand": and "the remnant" were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.”

Jerusalem is also compared spiritually as Sodom…..

Revelation 11:8 “And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.”

Here the Lord is speaking to the people of Jerusalem and Judah…

Isaiah 1:9-10 “Except the Lord of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah.10 Hear the word of the Lord, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.”

Paul confirms the same here concerning Israel…

Romans 9:27-29 “Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:28 For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth.29 And as Esaias said before, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha.

Again comparing people as Sodom…

Jeremiah 23:14 “I have seen also in the prophets of Jerusalem an horrible thing: they commit adultery, and walk in lies: they strengthen also the hands of evildoers, that none doth return from his wickedness; they are all of them unto me as Sodom, and the inhabitants thereof as Gomorrah.”

 

[Bill]

I would advise all to stick with the KJV because the wording is very important to understanding.

The book of Revelation is very symbolic, and one needs to pay close attention to the wording because that is where you will find the clues you need in other parts of scripture to help you unlock the many mysteries found in God's words. But it is only by the Holy Spirit one can receive this understanding into the mystery. God's 2 witnesses (Word and Spirit) are "in" all his saints, it is the bodies of the saints that are lying in the streets of this "spiritual" city. Just as God's saints are also referred to in scripture as the "holy city" and as Jerusalem and Zion.

Notice the wording....

Revelation 11:7-9 "And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. (war against the saints who have the testimony of Jesus Christ in them)8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which "spiritually" is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves."

Now compare the above to the wording below here.....


Isaiah 51:16-23
16 And I have put my words in thy mouth, and I have covered thee in the shadow of mine hand, that I may plant the heavens, and lay the foundations of the earth, and say unto Zion, Thou art my people.
17 Awake, awake, stand up, O Jerusalem, which hast drunk at the hand of the Lord the cup of his fury; thou hast drunken the dregs of the cup of trembling, and wrung them out.
18 There is none to guide her among all the sons whom she hath brought forth; neither is there any that taketh her by the hand of all the sons that she hath brought up.
19 These two things are come unto thee; who shall be sorry for thee? desolation, and destruction, and the famine, and the sword: by whom shall I comfort thee?
20 Thy sons have fainted, they lie at the head of all the streets, as a wild bull in a net: they are full of the fury of the Lord, the rebuke of thy God.
21 Therefore hear now this, thou afflicted, and drunken, but not with wine:
22 Thus saith thy Lord the Lord, and thy God that pleadeth the cause of his people, Behold, I have taken out of thine hand the cup of trembling, even the dregs of the cup of my fury; thou shalt no more drink it again:
23 But I will put it into the hand of them that afflict thee; which have said to thy soul, Bow down, that we may go over: and thou hast laid thy body as the ground, and as the street, to them that went over."

The above verses show the first tribulation of the Jews and the days of vengeance upon God’s people, but notice this cup of fury is taken from them and then given to the Nations. Also notice above God calls his people Zion, and Jerusalem (the holy city), and they lie in the streets of this "spiritual" place, and then God tells them to awake as in the resurrection; like the bodies of the 2 witnesses in the streets.

Now notice the wording again....

Revelation 11:11
And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

Compare to....

Hosea 6:2
After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

Revelation 11:9 "And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

Again compare spiritual things with spiritual……

Psalm 79:2-3 "The dead bodies of thy servants have they given to be meat unto the fowls of the heaven, the flesh of thy saints unto the beasts of the earth.3 Their blood have they shed like water round about Jerusalem; and there was none to bury them."

Also notice what Paul says here concerning the killing of the prophets of God…

Romans 11 “I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,
3 Lord, they have killed "thy prophets", and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself "seven thousand" men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5 Even so then at this present time also there is "a remnant" according to the election of grace.”

Again compare the wording used in Revelation concerning "the prophets" killed, the "seven thousand" men, and "the remnant"….

Revelation 11:10-13 “And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men "seven thousand": and "the remnant" were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.”

Jerusalem is also compared spiritually as Sodom…..

Revelation 11:8 “And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.”

Here the Lord is speaking to the people of Jerusalem and Judah…

Isaiah 1:9-10 “Except the Lord of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah.10 Hear the word of the Lord, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.”

Paul confirms the same here concerning Israel…

Romans 9:27-29 “Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:28 For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth.29 And as Esaias said before, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha.

Again comparing people as Sodom…

Jeremiah 23:14 “I have seen also in the prophets of Jerusalem an horrible thing: they commit adultery, and walk in lies: they strengthen also the hands of evildoers, that none doth return from his wickedness; they are all of them unto me as Sodom, and the inhabitants thereof as Gomorrah.”

I would advise all to stick with the KJV because the wording is very important to understanding. ... is what you said

My question to you is which version of the King James Bible or are you talking about because my mother's 1964 version is a lot different than the modern one.

Also the King James version was written in the manner of King James it's not the original Bible. And there are parts of the Old Testament that cannot be translated into English of any form.

So why is it so important to translate it only with the King James version of which you have not spoken which version you are talkin about?

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

I would advise all to stick with the KJV because the wording is very important to understanding. ... is what you said

My question to you is which version of the King James Bible or are you talking about because my mother's 1964 version is a lot different than the modern one.

Also the King James version was written in the manner of King James it's not the original Bible. And there are parts of the Old Testament that cannot be translated into English of any form.

So why is it so important to translate it only with the King James version of which you have not spoken which version you are talkin about?

It’s the KJV I have been quoting from. The Authorized or KJV.

 

[Bill]

It’s the KJV I have been quoting from. The Authorized or KJV.

But that doesnt answer the question, or fix the problem . Any scholar can come along and authorize there version of the KJV. My mom's 1964 states on the inside cover that it is the Authorized version, yet there are stricking differences in a modern KJV and that one .

Also the problem with translating Hebrew to English remains an issue. As we do not have the grammer in English to cover when God is speaking ( Old Testiment ). A primary example is God speaking to Moses . The famous , " I am who am " phrase , is not what God said to Moses . And that is because we dont have the right Grammer to cover it. The Litteral translation is , " I's am Whom am "

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

But that doesnt answer the question, or fix the problem . Any scholar can come along and authorize there version of the KJV. My mom's 1964 states on the inside cover that it is the Authorized version, yet there are stricking differences in a modern KJV and that one .

Also the problem with translating Hebrew to English remains an issue. As we do not have the grammer in English to cover when God is speaking ( Old Testiment ). A primary example is God speaking to Moses . The famous , " I am who am " phrase , is not what God said to Moses . And that is because we dont have the right Grammer to cover it. The Litteral translation is , " I's am Whom am "

I have no problem with the KJV. It was just my advice. If you have an issue with it, then you can read what you want. But I’m not going to get into a back and forth about The accuracy of different Bible translations. Peace

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings Bill,

I think you'll find that "I AM THAT I AM" from Exodus 3:14 is different from what you suggested.
ehyeh ’ăsher ’ehyeh


Bless you ....><>

 

[Br. Bear]

But I’m not going to get into a back and forth about The accuracy of different Bible translations. Peace

good idea!

however, you did make a fairly strong mention of it (and have done before), so @Bill was probably looking at that part of your post(s)

Bless you ....><>

 

[Bill]

Greetings Bill,

I think you'll find that "I AM THAT I AM" from Exodus 3:14 is different from what you suggested.
ehyeh ’ăsher ’ehyeh


Bless you ....><>

Some years ago , i was working on a term paper , The Humor of God in Hebrew Scripture .

Actually came across this " by accident " lol

The encyclopedia i was reading showed the difference in verbs and grammer from the Hebrew to the English. It stated that in English, we can not translate it correctly as we do not use a ' singulat plural noun ' for the word " I " . After which it stated, the closest it can translate was 'I's' am 'whom' am or as the translation you have written 'I's' am that 'I's' am.

( just trying to give some clarification to what i wrote before )

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

I forgot to add this tid-bit into the study. Notice below….

Revelation 11:3
And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in “sackcloth.”

Notice God’s witnesses are not wearing 3 piece suits, but sackcloth.

 

[Oseas]

Zechariah 4:1-6 “And the angel that talked with me came again, and waked me, as a man that is wakened out of his sleep. 2 And said unto me, What seest thou? And I said, I have looked, and behold a candlestick all of gold, with a bowl upon the top of it, and his seven lamps thereon, and seven pipes to the seven lamps, which are upon the top thereof:3 And two olive trees by it, one upon the right side of the bowl, and the other upon the left side thereof.4 So I answered and spake to the angel that talked with me, saying, What are these, my lord?5 Then the angel that talked with me answered and said unto me, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.

6 Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the Lord unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the Lord of hosts.”

The angel answered Zechariahs question in verse 6 as to who these 2 were, but Zechariah missed it because he asks the angel again in verse 12; Zechariah 4:12 And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?

And the angel once again tells him these are the “two anointed ones” that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.

And these 2 anointed ones are God’s Word and Spirit, ( mentioned in verse 6) which feed the Oil (Spirit) to the 7 lamps.

First, The Word is the invisible Person of GOD, self-executing. By the way, JESUS is the EXPRESS IMAGE (the WRITTEN IMAGE-the Word made flesh) of the Person of GOD, i.e. the IMAGE of GOD the Father. Hebrews 1: 1-3

1 - GOD, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 - Hath in these last days (two Days=2000 years)spoken unto us by His Son, whom GOD hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also GOD made the worlds;

3 - Who being the brightness of GOD's glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the WORD of His power, when He had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

By the way, JESUS said to the Devil that the Word of GOD is "every word that proceedeth out of the MOUTH of GOD-Matthew 4:4. Hebrews 1:1 above also reveals us GOD speaking with His people in the Old Testament.
But in the period of 2000 years of this current New Testament, GOD hath in these last days (two Days=2000 years)spoken unto us by His Son, JESUS Christ, whom GOD hath appointed heir of all things, by WHOM also GOD made the worlds (this has nothing to do with the physical space and the called celestial corps of Universe). JESUS left clear, saying: Luke 20:35-36 :

35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that WORLD (the next WORLD or 3rd heaven, 3rd celestial environment-the millennial GOD's Kingdom which will be established from now on), and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:

36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of GOD, being the children of the resurrection.


The Word is GOD, self-executing.


>>>Quoted from above<<<: StewardoftheMystery
The angel answered Zechariahs question in verse 6 as to who these 2 were, but Zechariah missed it because he asks the angel again in verse 12; Zechariah 4:12 And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?
And the angel once again tells him these are the “two anointed ones” that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.
And these 2 anointed ones are God’s Word (highligh mine)and Spirit, ( mentioned in verse 6) which feed the Oil (Spirit) to the 7 lamps.
Conclusion: The Word of GOD is the written OT and NT. Therefore, the OT and NT are "the two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick (now the Jewish Church - Hebrews 12:22-23)and upon the left side thereof"-Zechariah 4:11. Also now, Revelation 1:20 - ...the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven Churches.
Revelation 11:3-4

3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses - THE WORD - OT and NT, and they shall prophesy ... -The testimony of JESUS written in the Bible is the Spirit of prophecy-Rev.19:10-.

4 These - two witnesses - OT and NT - the Word are the two olive trees (SOURCE OF OIL), and the two candlesticks (two Churches: -Jewish Church-Hebrews 12:22-23, and Gentile Church-Isaiah 9:1 and John 10:16. Take a look) standing before the God of the earth.

God bless

 

[Bill]

First, The Word is the invisible Person of GOD, self-executing. By the way, JESUS is the EXPRESS IMAGE (the WRITTEN IMAGE-the Word made flesh) of the Person of GOD, i.e. the IMAGE of GOD the Father. Hebrews 1: 1-3

1 - GOD, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 - Hath in these last days (two Days=2000 years)spoken unto us by His Son, whom GOD hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also GOD made the worlds;

3 - Who being the brightness of GOD's glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the WORD of His power, when He had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

By the way, JESUS said to the Devil that the Word of GOD is "every word that proceedeth out of the MOUTH of GOD-Matthew 4:4. Hebrews 1:1 above also reveals us GOD speaking with His people in the Old Testament.
But in the period of 2000 years of this current New Testament, GOD hath in these last days (two Days=2000 years)spoken unto us by His Son, JESUS Christ, whom GOD hath appointed heir of all things, by WHOM also GOD made the worlds (this has nothing to do with the physical space and the called celestial corps of Universe). JESUS left clear, saying: Luke 20:35-36 :

35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that WORLD (the next WORLD or 3rd heaven, 3rd celestial environment-the millennial GOD's Kingdom which will be established from now on), and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:

36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of GOD, being the children of the resurrection.


The Word is GOD, self-executing.


>>>Quoted from above<<<: StewardoftheMystery
The angel answered Zechariahs question in verse 6 as to who these 2 were, but Zechariah missed it because he asks the angel again in verse 12; Zechariah 4:12 And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?
And the angel once again tells him these are the “two anointed ones” that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.
And these 2 anointed ones are God’s Word (highligh mine)and Spirit, ( mentioned in verse 6) which feed the Oil (Spirit) to the 7 lamps.
Conclusion: The Word of GOD is the written OT and NT. Therefore, the OT and NT are "the two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick (now the Jewish Church - Hebrews 12:22-23)and upon the left side thereof"-Zechariah 4:11. Also now, Revelation 1:20 - ...the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven Churches.
Revelation 11:3-4

3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses - THE WORD - OT and NT, and they shall prophesy ... -The testimony of JESUS written in the Bible is the Spirit of prophecy-Rev.19:10-.

4 These - two witnesses - OT and NT - the Word are the two olive trees (SOURCE OF OIL), and the two candlesticks (two Churches: -Jewish Church-Hebrews 12:22-23, and Gentile Church-Isaiah 9:1 and John 10:16. Take a look) standing before the God of the earth.

God bless

Who or what is Jesus?
(I already know the answer to this I'm just posting some thoughts out for you)

In the beginning was the word the word was with God and the Word was God. The word became flesh and dwelt among us.

When people think of Jesus they only think of the human person and they kind of forget about little details as Jesus is the word of God that became flesh and dwelt Among Us. So the first thing is is that Jesus was the word of God. So all of the scripture that we read is actually Jesus in print so to speak. But the pages of the Bible are not Jesus it's what we read and take into our hearts that is Jesus.

To get a greater grass of the very words or the word of God. When God speaks to Moses it's Jesus who speaks and when God puts the Ten Commandments on the two stone tablets it's Jesus that he imprints on the two stone tablets, as they are the Living Word. And as it says in Psalms the laws are written on my heart.

But Jesus is still more than just words, because the word is greater than words. Jesus is God and God is love. Jesus is the embodiment of love.

You can see how Jesus loved the Israelites in the Old Testament as he sent Mana to the desert and was the rock that followed the Israelites around the desert that gave the Israelites Life Giving water

 

[Oseas]

Who or what is Jesus?
(I already know the answer to this I'm just posting some thoughts out for you)

In the beginning was the word the word was with God and the Word was God. The word became flesh and dwelt among us.

The Word is the invisible Person of GOD, self-executing. By the way, JESUS is the EXPRESS IMAGE (the WRITTEN IMAGE-the Word made flesh) of the Person of GOD, i.e. the IMAGE of GOD the Father. Hebrews 1: 1-3

1 - GOD, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 - Hath in these last days (two Days=2000 years)spoken unto us by His Son, whom GOD hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also GOD made the worlds;

3 - Who being the brightness of GOD's glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the WORD of His power, when He had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

By the way, JESUS said to the Devil that the Word of GOD is "every word that proceedeth out of the MOUTH of GOD-Matthew 4:4. Hebrews 1:1 above also reveals us GOD speaking with His people in the Old Testament.
But in the period of 2000 years of this current New Testament, GOD hath in these last days (two Days=2000 years)spoken unto us by His Son, JESUS Christ, whom GOD hath appointed heir of all things, by WHOM also GOD made the worlds. --> In the beginning-in JESUS- was the Word -was GOD- GOD the Father- as said JESUS: I and my Father ARE One. And when the Word was made flesh - became flesh and dwelt among us - and He chose a NAME for He Himself -i.e. JESUS- then He said: My Father worketh hitherto, and I work-John 5:17. As we all can see, the Person of GOD was still working because was still the fourth Day, not as an invisible Person as was In the OT, but as a visible Person, and it in flesh and bones, and as the Greater Light as is written in Genesis 1:16. In other words, as the Sun of Justice. By the way, the Church is clothed by the Sun of ustice, the Greater Light.

Remember: The letter kills, but the Spirit - GOD - the Word - gives Life.

 

[Bill]

The Word is the invisible Person of GOD, self-executing. By the way, JESUS is the EXPRESS IMAGE (the WRITTEN IMAGE-the Word made flesh) of the Person of GOD, i.e. the IMAGE of GOD the Father. Hebrews 1: 1-3

1 - GOD, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 - Hath in these last days (two Days=2000 years)spoken unto us by His Son, whom GOD hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also GOD made the worlds;

3 - Who being the brightness of GOD's glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the WORD of His power, when He had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

By the way, JESUS said to the Devil that the Word of GOD is "every word that proceedeth out of the MOUTH of GOD-Matthew 4:4. Hebrews 1:1 above also reveals us GOD speaking with His people in the Old Testament.
But in the period of 2000 years of this current New Testament, GOD hath in these last days (two Days=2000 years)spoken unto us by His Son, JESUS Christ, whom GOD hath appointed heir of all things, by WHOM also GOD made the worlds. --> In the beginning-in JESUS- was the Word -was GOD- GOD the Father- as said JESUS: I and my Father ARE One. And when the Word was made flesh - became flesh and dwelt among us - and He chose a NAME for He Himself -i.e. JESUS- then He said: My Father worketh hitherto, and I work-John 5:17. As we all can see, the Person of GOD was still working because was still the fourth Day, not as an invisible Person as was In the OT, but as a visible Person, and it in flesh and bones, and as the Greater Light as is written in Genesis 1:16. In other words, as the Sun of Justice. By the way, the Church is clothed by the Sun of ustice, the Greater Light.

Remember: The letter kills, but the Spirit - GOD - the Word - gives Life.

Understanding Jesus can sure be a conundrum when he talks about himself.

By the way I'm not trying to be a smart alec but don't you think that if the word is invisible we would not be able to see it. How could you possibly read the Bible if the word was invisible. Or how could you see Jesus if the word was invisible. Because Jesus and the word are one

 

[Oseas]

By the way I'm not trying to be a smart alec but don't you think that if the word is invisible we would not be able to see it.

It seems that you don't understand. If you see well, I was and am speaking of the Person of GOD, not of the letter of the Word, the Holy Scriptures, for the letter kills, understand? The Spirit gives life.

GOD-the Word is GOD- was invisible in the OT, but His IMAGE was/is expressed by written in the Scriptures, a man can see the IMAGE of GOD described within the Scriptures by the Spirit of Him, but not His Person because He is invisible. 1 Timothy 1:17- Now unto the King eternal, immortal, INVISIBLE, the only wise God, be Honour and Glory for ever and ever. Amen.

JESUS said: John 14:7-8
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also:...
8 Philip saith unto Him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

The man can see GOD by the Word-the Holy Scriptures- the Bible as we know- , only and only by the Spirit of GOD in him, otherwise not.

How could you possibly read the Bible if the word was invisible. Or how could you see Jesus if the word was invisible. Because Jesus and the word are one

According your own words above , you are not speaking of the Person of GOD, neither of JESUS, but of the letter of Scriptures-the letter of the Bible- It's impressive that you are confounding letter as GOD and as JESUS. See, the letter kills, so you die by the letter, the Spirit that inspired Scriptures -the Spirit of GOD- is Life. GOD is Spirit.

1 Corinthians 2:9-11

11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of GOD knoweth no man, but the Spirit of GOD.

9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which GOD hath prepared for them that love Him.

10 But GOD hath revealed them unto us by His Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of GOD.

Understanding Jesus can sure be a conundrum when he talks about himself.

Meditate deeply on this. Matthew 11:27
... No MAN knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any MAN the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal Him. - Great mystery -.

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

for the letter kills, understand? The Spirit gives life.

GOD-the Word is GOD- was invisible in the OT, but His IMAGE was/is expressed by written in the Scriptures, a man can see the IMAGE of GOD described within the Scriptures by the Spirit of Him, but not His Person because He is invisible. 1 Timothy 1:17- Now unto the King eternal, immortal, INVISIBLE, the only wise God, be Honour and Glory for ever and ever. Amen.

JESUS said: John 14:7-8
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also:...
8 Philip saith unto Him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

The man can see GOD by the Word-the Holy Scriptures- the Bible as we know- , only and only by the Spirit of GOD in him, otherwise not.



According your own words above , you are not speaking of the Person of GOD, neither of JESUS, but of the letter of Scriptures-the letter of the Bible- It's impressive that you are confounding letter as GOD and as JESUS. See, the letter kills, so you die by the letter, the Spirit that inspired Scriptures -the Spirit of GOD- is Life. GOD is Spirit.

1 Corinthians 2:9-11

11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of GOD knoweth no man, but the Spirit of GOD.

9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which GOD hath prepared for them that love Him.

10 But GOD hath revealed them unto us by His Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of GOD.



Meditate deeply on this. Matthew 11:27
... No MAN knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any MAN the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal Him. - Great mystery -.

The reason Paul said the letter of the law kills is because the law condemns sin to death, as the wage of Sin is death.

It was not the holy law of God that caused man to die, but Sin.

Romans 7:12-13

King James Version

​

12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.”

The Law of God is not sin

I have come across a grave error in my internet travels, and that error is in thinking that the law of God is a curse, and is sin. The law of God is also the words of God; and so I would ask, is God's words also sin and death? Of course not! And for one to equate God's words of Life as sin...

www.talkjesus.com

 

[Bill]

It seems that you don't understand. If you see well, I was and am speaking of the Person of GOD, not of the letter of the Word, the Holy Scriptures, for the letter kills, understand? The Spirit gives life.

GOD-the Word is GOD- was invisible in the OT, but His IMAGE was/is expressed by written in the Scriptures, a man can see the IMAGE of GOD described within the Scriptures by the Spirit of Him, but not His Person because He is invisible. 1 Timothy 1:17- Now unto the King eternal, immortal, INVISIBLE, the only wise God, be Honour and Glory for ever and ever. Amen.

JESUS said: John 14:7-8
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also:...
8 Philip saith unto Him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

The man can see GOD by the Word-the Holy Scriptures- the Bible as we know- , only and only by the Spirit of GOD in him, otherwise not.



According your own words above , you are not speaking of the Person of GOD, neither of JESUS, but of the letter of Scriptures-the letter of the Bible- It's impressive that you are confounding letter as GOD and as JESUS. See, the letter kills, so you die by the letter, the Spirit that inspired Scriptures -the Spirit of GOD- is Life. GOD is Spirit.

1 Corinthians 2:9-11

11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of GOD knoweth no man, but the Spirit of GOD.

9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which GOD hath prepared for them that love Him.

10 But GOD hath revealed them unto us by His Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of GOD.



Meditate deeply on this. Matthew 11:27
... No MAN knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any MAN the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal Him. - Great mystery -.

There is a difference . If i am talking about words ( plural ) then i am not talking about Jesus. But where i am talking about the word ( i was using voice to chat, it will not capitalize) the word , i am always talking in referance to Jesus. As He is the Word.

 

[Bill]

It seems that you don't understand. If you see well, I was and am speaking of the Person of GOD, not of the letter of the Word, the Holy Scriptures, for the letter kills, understand? The Spirit gives life.

GOD-the Word is GOD- was invisible in the OT, but His IMAGE was/is expressed by written in the Scriptures, a man can see the IMAGE of GOD described within the Scriptures by the Spirit of Him, but not His Person because He is invisible. 1 Timothy 1:17- Now unto the King eternal, immortal, INVISIBLE, the only wise God, be Honour and Glory for ever and ever. Amen.

JESUS said: John 14:7-8
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also:...
8 Philip saith unto Him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

The man can see GOD by the Word-the Holy Scriptures- the Bible as we know- , only and only by the Spirit of GOD in him, otherwise not.



According your own words above , you are not speaking of the Person of GOD, neither of JESUS, but of the letter of Scriptures-the letter of the Bible- It's impressive that you are confounding letter as GOD and as JESUS. See, the letter kills, so you die by the letter, the Spirit that inspired Scriptures -the Spirit of GOD- is Life. GOD is Spirit.

1 Corinthians 2:9-11

11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of GOD knoweth no man, but the Spirit of GOD.

9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which GOD hath prepared for them that love Him.

10 But GOD hath revealed them unto us by His Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of GOD.



Meditate deeply on this. Matthew 11:27
... No MAN knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any MAN the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal Him. - Great mystery -.

By the way, Scripture ( the Word of God) and Jesus are the same..

The differance between the written bible and Jesus is simply, you need to read and recieve the written words into your heart to recieve the Word, to recieve Jesus