just-a-servant
Member
- Joined
- Sep 23, 2010
- Messages
- 115
Truth Be Told,
I will try to answer your comments in order, but truthfully, for you I believe it will be a waste of time. You have an idea in your head and no amount of ink I can use will change your mind. My efforts here are not aimed at you, but rather those who read this thread and would like to know a common sense approach to the scripture - one which uses a logical thought process free of opinion, bloviating, and incorrect exegesis.
Here, you use the incorrect word. You insist on pounding the square peg into the round hole. The word IS G5480, not G5482. Even if the root word is G5482, the actual word used is G5480 and therefore you MUST USE IT, not one which you think sounds better or fits a definition you have decided is better. Doing so is akin to changing scripture which is exactly the wrong thing to do.
No, what you said is, "The whole purpose of the mark is to seal ones fate in the lake of fire." (see post #8) There is a difference. The purpose of the mark is to identify those who have pledged allegiance to the beast. It identifies them to ALL men who see them so they can buy or sell. I believe God could tell who the followers of the beast are without the applied mark, don't you?
Again from post #8, what you actually said: "The 144,000 are sealed because otherwise the angels would kill them with the plagues of Gods wrath."
The fact is the 144K are sealed because they are the redeemed of Israel. Being saved from the angels plagues has nothing to do with it. As I have said before, the 4 angels of the sixth seal are told to hold back from harming the LAND & SEA until they are sealed as servants to GOD. As to your opinion that this event happens long before the "plague angels" is pure conjecture on your part because there is NO definition of elapsed time other than there is a logical progression - sixth seal, seventh seal, etc. (There is a time of silence for about half-an-hour after the seventh seal is opened, other than that, there is no time frame) The logical progression could take milliseconds or longer but that's way above our pay grade to know.
I didn't ask you to reaffirm your position (which is in error), I asked for chapter and verse where it says the 144K go about preaching to anyone. It simply can't be found. As to why they flee, look to Matt 24:15-16, Mark 13:14 and Luke 21:20-21. There is no mention that the reason they flee is to hear the gospel. With regard to the 144K who have been sealed, their mission is to serve God and the Lamb, not man. Read the scripture at Rev 14:1-5 for this proof.
On the contrary, does it surprise you to know that God has known the end from the beginning? (Isa 46:10) Doesn't He know who will answer His call? (John 10:14 and 27) Doesn't He know the heart of every man? (1 Kings 8:39 & 2 Chron 6:30) Doesn't He know every person even from the womb? (Jer 1:5) Is it hard then to understand that the sealing of one's fate would be known by Him long before the mark is applied?
That's the biggest bunch of gobbledygook I've ever read. I couldn't follow a single thought you had. Take a breath and re-write please.
This is what you wrote in post #8: "rev 6;12-17 is Christ being revealed at the right hand of power"
This is the text of Rev 6:12-17:
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
I don't see any reference to Christ being revealed at the right hand of power. As I said, you probably have the wrong reference.
It pays to read the verse in context with the surrounding verses, don't you think? In this passage, just two verses earlier (v19) it is clearly talking about the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. The armies most likely don't include women and children, the elderly, etc. Those slain by the rider of the horse (Christ) are those on the field of battle. Read the context to be sure. Those not on the field of battle will be left.
Yes, do you have an alternative suggestion?
I believe those who awaken to shame are already dead and there is a plan for them. Lake of fire sound familiar?
I will try to answer your comments in order, but truthfully, for you I believe it will be a waste of time. You have an idea in your head and no amount of ink I can use will change your mind. My efforts here are not aimed at you, but rather those who read this thread and would like to know a common sense approach to the scripture - one which uses a logical thought process free of opinion, bloviating, and incorrect exegesis.
Here, you use the incorrect word. You insist on pounding the square peg into the round hole. The word IS G5480, not G5482. Even if the root word is G5482, the actual word used is G5480 and therefore you MUST USE IT, not one which you think sounds better or fits a definition you have decided is better. Doing so is akin to changing scripture which is exactly the wrong thing to do.
No, what you said is, "The whole purpose of the mark is to seal ones fate in the lake of fire." (see post #8) There is a difference. The purpose of the mark is to identify those who have pledged allegiance to the beast. It identifies them to ALL men who see them so they can buy or sell. I believe God could tell who the followers of the beast are without the applied mark, don't you?
Again from post #8, what you actually said: "The 144,000 are sealed because otherwise the angels would kill them with the plagues of Gods wrath."
The fact is the 144K are sealed because they are the redeemed of Israel. Being saved from the angels plagues has nothing to do with it. As I have said before, the 4 angels of the sixth seal are told to hold back from harming the LAND & SEA until they are sealed as servants to GOD. As to your opinion that this event happens long before the "plague angels" is pure conjecture on your part because there is NO definition of elapsed time other than there is a logical progression - sixth seal, seventh seal, etc. (There is a time of silence for about half-an-hour after the seventh seal is opened, other than that, there is no time frame) The logical progression could take milliseconds or longer but that's way above our pay grade to know.
I didn't ask you to reaffirm your position (which is in error), I asked for chapter and verse where it says the 144K go about preaching to anyone. It simply can't be found. As to why they flee, look to Matt 24:15-16, Mark 13:14 and Luke 21:20-21. There is no mention that the reason they flee is to hear the gospel. With regard to the 144K who have been sealed, their mission is to serve God and the Lamb, not man. Read the scripture at Rev 14:1-5 for this proof.
On the contrary, does it surprise you to know that God has known the end from the beginning? (Isa 46:10) Doesn't He know who will answer His call? (John 10:14 and 27) Doesn't He know the heart of every man? (1 Kings 8:39 & 2 Chron 6:30) Doesn't He know every person even from the womb? (Jer 1:5) Is it hard then to understand that the sealing of one's fate would be known by Him long before the mark is applied?
That's the biggest bunch of gobbledygook I've ever read. I couldn't follow a single thought you had. Take a breath and re-write please.
This is what you wrote in post #8: "rev 6;12-17 is Christ being revealed at the right hand of power"
This is the text of Rev 6:12-17:
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
I don't see any reference to Christ being revealed at the right hand of power. As I said, you probably have the wrong reference.
It pays to read the verse in context with the surrounding verses, don't you think? In this passage, just two verses earlier (v19) it is clearly talking about the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. The armies most likely don't include women and children, the elderly, etc. Those slain by the rider of the horse (Christ) are those on the field of battle. Read the context to be sure. Those not on the field of battle will be left.
Yes, do you have an alternative suggestion?
I believe those who awaken to shame are already dead and there is a plan for them. Lake of fire sound familiar?
