The Trinity does not exist - Undermines God's nature and the cross

[Samson2020]

1. There is only one God 1 Cor 8:6

Lets take a look at your verse

1 Co 8:6 Yet to us there is but one God, the Father, FROM WHOM ARE ALL THINGS, and we in Him, AND ONE LORD Jesus Christ BY WHOM are all things,
and we by Him.

This verse you use actually describes the difference between the two. God the Father is the only true God as Jesus stated in John 17:3 FROM WHOM ARE
ALL THINGS.

Then there is the ONE LORD Jesus Christ BY WHOM ARE ALL THINGS, as He was the beginning of the creation of God according to His own words Rev 3:14

By your interpretation: Jesus is God who created Himself? But thats now what Rev 3:14 states.

Exo 8:10 There is no one like the Lord our God.

And again I'll say some people have a real hard time rightly dividing the word of God. In the Old Testament there really was no other Lord nor any other God.
But after the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus we get,
Thou hast loved righteousness and hated iniquity; therefore God, THY GOD, hath anointed thee....... The Father is anointing Jesus not Himself!

The verse you gave is simply making the point that we know God as Jesus.

No that is just the way you wish to read it. Paul is giving thanks to BOTH the Father and the Son. 2 entities.
When the kingdom is delivered up to the Father the Son is in subjection to the Father, thus they cannot be one and the same or two co-equal persons. it just
doesn't work. 1 Co 15:28

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

The highlighted portion of your post, could you explain that? Satan counterfeit trinity??

It's all written in Rev. 12 and 13, in the end there'll be a satanic trinity - Satan, the Sea Beast and the Earth Beast, these two beasts are also known as the antichrist and the false prophet. They'll work in the same mechanism the Holy Trinity does, the Beast will fake a resurrection, the False Prophet will breathe life into the "image of the beast" like God breathed life into Adam, they'll build the global Beast system, a counterfeit millennial kingdom, a reprise of the Tower of Babel, and we call that "the Matrix"!

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

The way I see it, the three persons of the Holy Trinity is NOT "coequal" or "interchangeable". Authority is given from the Father to the Son, then from the Son to his church. This is how the satanic trinity works, and that's a counterfeit of the original.

Rev. 13:5 And he (the Sea Beast) was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to continue for forty-two months.
Rev. 13:7 And authority was given him (the Sea Beast) over every tribe, tongue, and nation.
Rev. 13:12 And he (the Earth Beast) exercises all the authority of the first beast (the Sea Beast) in his presence, and causes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed (fake resurrection).

 

[joestue]

The way I see it, the three persons of the Holy Trinity is NOT "coequal" or "interchangeable".

This is why Jesus explained that words spoken against him can be forgiven, but words spoken against the Holy Spirit cannot.

The Jews he was speaking to already knew that words spoken against God cannot be forgiven, that was taught to them long ago in Deuteronomy..

Jesus was equating the Holy Spirit with God, a spirit they probably greatly feared and rarely heard spoken of except with regard to the prophets of old..


In my opinion, it's because they are the same. It is no different than the analogy I gave regarding telepathy. I also claim that the Holy Spirit has told me regarding my claims: "do not divide my people". And occasionally I find folks who can laugh about the possibility God is 2, not 3 person's. But few can laugh, most get scared and start piling wood to burn you at the stake.

Now I will say I have felt the presence of God in other people. Those experiences are so few it makes me wonder if not more than 1% are saved, and of those, are 95% of them resisting the Spirit and have little to no presence of God in them?
I don't know.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

This is why Jesus explained that words spoken against him can be forgiven, but words spoken against the Holy Spirit cannot.

That's a matter of attitude, words spoken against him are mostly out of ignorance, words spoken against the Holy Spirit are blaspheme with full knowledge.

 

[joestue]

That's a matter of attitude, words spoken against him are mostly out of ignorance, words spoken against the Holy Spirit are blaspheme with full knowledge.

You can apply that to all sin, why would Jesus waste his time in speaking those words?

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

You can apply that to all sin, why would Jesus waste his time in speaking those words?

If I remember this right, in that context Yeshua just performed a miracle, and the Pharisees called him a demon. He was warning them who denied his power. They of all people should've known better.

 

[joestue]

You are correct but there is a pretty substantial declaration made. Jesus has the authority to forgive sins committed against him.

He does not have the power to forgive sins committed against the Holy Spirit.

Why can you not see this?

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

You are correct but there is a pretty substantial declaration made. Jesus has the authority to forgive sins committed against him.

He does not have the power to forgive sins committed against the Holy Spirit.

Why can you not see this?

First, the focus in this case is on the sinner, not the Savior. What I see is that sinning against Holy Spirit is rejection of His salvation, it's not ignorance or lack of access, but a conscious choice. In that case, God gives them up to pursue what they want, Rom. 1:27. "He who does not believe in Him is condemned already" because their sins are NOT cast on Him and atoned for on the cross. His authority to forgive sins is denied by the sinner.

 

[joestue]

Good thing I am not justified by your interpretations

 

[KingJ]

Lets take a look at your verse

1 Co 8:6 Yet to us there is but one God, the Father, FROM WHOM ARE ALL THINGS, and we in Him, AND ONE LORD Jesus Christ BY WHOM are all things,
and we by Him.

This verse you use actually describes the difference between the two. God the Father is the only true God as Jesus stated in John 17:3 FROM WHOM ARE
ALL THINGS.

You truly have a problem with the English language.

The verse starts off with ''there is ONE God''. It then explains that God the Father and Lord Jesus are in that bracket.

As I have said to you twice already. You need to grasp that there is ONE God and that this ONE God is a JEALOUS God who will NOT allow worship of any other God.

If you cannot grasp the above line there is truly no hope for you. The scriptures on God the Son will fly far over your head.

 

[Samson2020]

You truly have a problem with the English language.

The verse starts off with ''there is ONE God''. It then explains that God the Father and Lord Jesus are in that bracket.

Oh I see it now.

Dogs AND cats are really just DOGS by your interpretation of the English Language.

I guess I still have a problem with "My Father is GREATER than I" And "I ascend unto My God and your God, and to My Father and your Father."

If Jesus calls His Father His God, do you not make Him a liar by saying He is actually God.

And if "My Father is greater than I", does not that verse out of His mouth identify 2 different entities?
Same for ".....to know THEE the ONLY TRUE GOD and Jesus Christ whom THOU HAST SENT." Again identifies 2 different entities.

According to you the ONLY TRUE GOD sent Himself. Bible refutes that in that GOD SENT HIS only BEGOTTEN SON.
BEGOTTEN means to be born of, generate OFFSPRING(children)

Wow!!

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Good thing I am not justified by your interpretations

What I'm saying is, Yeshua CAN forgive them, but he WON'T, because when a sinner witnesses his power on display and still denies him, any forgiveness would only encourage them to sin more, God's grace is mistaken as a license to sin, therefore God gives them up to let Satan teach them a lesson. Until they repent like the prodigal son, no forgiveness is given. This is like some tough love in parenting, you know, literally - in that parable of the prodigal son.

 

[Samson2020]

What I'm saying is, Yeshua CAN forgive them, but he WON'T, because when a sinner witnesses his power on display and still denies him, any forgiveness would only encourage them to sin more, God's grace is mistaken as a license to sin, therefore God gives them up to let Satan teach them a lesson. Until they repent like the prodigal son, no forgiveness is given. This is like some tough love in parenting, you know, literally - in that parable of the prodigal son.

Who repented of crucifying Him to cause Him to say "Father forgive them for they know not what they do"? Luke 23:34

 

[Victor VanHeerden]

If Jesus calls His Father His God, do you not make Him a liar by saying He is actually God.

The Trinity is a great mystery. And yet it was explained by the Nicene creed. A long long time ago in 380,s CE.

1. We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.
2. And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds (æons), Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, con-substantial with the Father;.
3.And in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of life, who proceedith from the Father, who with the Father and the Son together is worshiped and glorified, who spake by the prophets.

If one does not conform to this doctrine - you will be branded as a heretic. And why it was formulated in the beginning. To set crooked ways straight.

 

[joestue]

What I'm saying is, Yeshua CAN forgive them, but he WON'T

You have added information where none was provided.

Jesus said some sin could not be forgive. He didn't say he will not forgive intentional sin . (Which applies to a whole lot more)

 

[Samson2020]

The Trinity is a great mystery. And yet it was explained by the Nicene creed. A long long time ago in 380,s CE.

1. We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.
2. And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds (æons), Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, con-substantial with the Father;.
3.And in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of life, who proceedith from the Father, who with the Father and the Son together is worshiped and glorified, who spake by the prophets.

If one does not conform to this doctrine - you will be branded as a heretic. And why it was formulated in the beginning. To set crooked ways straight.

Yes I know and those who created the doctrine were guilty of beheadings and burning at the stake those that did not conform to that belief.
Isn't a very good argument for believing in the doctrine, nor believing they were actually Christians. These same expounders of that doctrine have been responsible
for more deaths of men than just about any other calamity that hit the earth. The Crusades to retake Jerusalem would be a great example.
We seek a heavenly kingdom, they sought an earthly kingdom through violence. But now we are to believe they had it right all along.
I for one don't buy it at all because it didn't enter into Christianity until 329 yrs after Jesus was resurrected. And this is not what the Holy Ghost has taught me
through the scriptures.

The Father drags you to the Son, then the Son reveals the Father to whom He wishes.
In this trinity doctrine it would be the Father leading to the Son, who leads to the Father who is revealed to be the Son. Nonsense.

The main problem with rightly diving the word is that nobody seems to understand Jesus was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was NOT BEGOTTEN
of the Father as His Human child until the overshadowing of Mary. "This day have I begotten thee......" what day was that? the day of her overshadowing!

You agree He was begotten but that implies He is the child of God and not God. The definition of begotten is to be born esp. of a Father
You say not made but yet Rev 3:14 in Jesus' own words calls Himself the BEGINNING OF THE CREATION OF GOD. So did God create Himself?

The Trinity is a great mystery.

However, 2 Co 11:3 "But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be CORRUPTED FROM THE SIMPLICITY
THAT IS IN CHRIST."

 

[Victor VanHeerden]

I for one don't buy it at all because it didn't enter into Christianity until 329 yrs after Jesus was resurrected. And this is not what the Holy Ghost has taught me

Yep - i see your points. However this point you make is not true.

Jesus no less said the following:

Jesus had told His disciples to baptize disciples "in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" Matt 28:19

This was long before the Nicene Creed. And, as a lot of Protestants do, to pooh pooh the Early Church as Roman Catholic and thus in error is wrong. The Church did not begin at Luther. Or Calvin.

 

[Victor VanHeerden]

However, 2 Co 11:3 "But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be CORRUPTED FROM THE SIMPLICITY

You agree He was begotten but that implies He is the child of God and not God. The definition of begotten is to be born esp. of a Father

Wiki - "According to this central mystery of most Christian faiths,[8] there is only one God in three persons: while distinct from one another in their relations of origin

(as the Fourth Lateran Council declared, "it is the Father who generates, the Son who is begotten, and the Holy Spirit who proceeds")

and in their relations with one another, they are stated to be one in all else, co-equal, co-eternal and consubstantial, and "each is God, whole and entire".[9]

Accordingly, the whole work of creation and grace is seen as a single operation common to all three divine persons, in which each shows forth what is proper to him in the Trinity, so that all things are

"from the Father", "through the Son" and "in the Holy Spirit".

Can you see now why theologians have to resort to calling it a mystery. It is logically incoherent.

 

[KingJ]

Oh I see it now.

Dogs AND cats are really just DOGS by your interpretation of the English Language.

I guess I still have a problem with "My Father is GREATER than I" And "I ascend unto My God and your God, and to My Father and your Father."

If Jesus calls His Father His God, do you not make Him a liar by saying He is actually God.

And if "My Father is greater than I", does not that verse out of His mouth identify 2 different entities?
Same for ".....to know THEE the ONLY TRUE GOD and Jesus Christ whom THOU HAST SENT." Again identifies 2 different entities.

According to you the ONLY TRUE GOD sent Himself. Bible refutes that in that GOD SENT HIS only BEGOTTEN SON.
BEGOTTEN means to be born of, generate OFFSPRING(children)

Wow!!

When scripture says there is 'one' God, it means there is 'one' God. One, does not mean two. In fact one does not even mean three. Unless there was a recent change to the identity and definition of 'one', I believe it is still currently 'one'.

Now scripture says we can worship Jesus as He is Lord and that the 'one' God is jealous of us worshiping any but Him. 1 + 1 = 2.