The Two Witnesses? Dreams and Visions?

[Bill]

If, Paul, I graft a rose into my rosebush, if the cutting takes, the rose grafted in becomes part of the bush and can be accepted as such. I would have thought that when Paul likened us to grafted in branches, it would be the same, when the cutting takes, then the branch becomes part of the vine, which means we become what the vine is, and if the vine is Jewish, then that is what we become. This is not a bad thing, the Jews are those set aside for God, God's people, those who brought the knowledge of God to the world and the reason the world hates them. And as we are grafted into the people of God, we, being grafted in, are also hated. Praise the Lord we are who we are, on the right side!!

Well said . Its exactly the way i see it , including that the Jews are still there .

There is something interesting with the Jews which i can believe is ignored by some . . When God spoke to Moses , He said " I Am " . But this is as close as it gets in the English verbiage. As the literal translation would be " I's Am Whom Am " . Its a ' singular plural noun ' Ancient Hebrew . At the time of Moses , they already knew there was God , and the Spirit of God . And that God was One

 

[Bill]

I've never said that passion / emotions are Bad at all. Our ways of expressing that varies by the individual.

I've never cursed in my life -- I'm not an overly emotional person. I'm in my early 70's.

You're talking about young people. I've never really been the jump up and down kind of person for much anything.

Have Always been a conservative, book-reading, bike riding , TV watching kind of person.

Sorry If I disappoint you in this area.

I do feel deeply -- don't like to cry in front of anyone. The only time I cried around people was in the children's ER at Dell Children's Hospital when my grandson died. He was almost 14 yrs. of age.

The comment had been made about how people in Pentecostal churches respond during church services. And apparently that particular poster felt that a 'spirit-filled' worshiper should be worshiping in a 'spirited' way.
That's probably why I'm not in a Pentecostal Church. I'm a conservative Baptist.

I have been to many Baptist Churches . They are not all the same .

Some are very much like the Pentecostals. Filled with ' emotion ' and the Spirit , and others that were much more quiet and reserved , and filled with the Spirit .

I like to think of all of us and those " man made " ( not really man made ) churches as part of God's Orchestra.

 

[Brother-Paul]

Greetings Bill

A nice way to put it my friend, but we don't need denominations to have an orchestra, it is all ready in place across the globe.

Saved souls, the ekklesia, where ever 2 or 3 come together in Jesus Name, those born again souls worldwide are singing His Praises, Hallelujah brother, to God be the Glory, Jesus is Lord.

 

[Bill]

I'm kind of poking fun at many of you here who have this issue about churches being man-made . It's a false pretense and it's something that the devil likes to throw at us to try to divide us .

Churches come about through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Now certainly there are some who walk a strange path. And there are some who are obviously against the Lord such as churches that started as a Christian Church but a pastor has corrupted the parishioners and now it's open to gays and all manner of sin only because the pastor wants to go that route.

Those churches have had Their Blessings removed from them as the presence of the Holy Spirit has left

But Christian churches in general have been selected by the Holy Spirit. To bring God's purpose into the world. So don't ever say to one another man-made churches in general thinking of all Christian churches because you are talking against the Holy Spirit when you do that

 

[Bill]

Greetings Bill

A nice way to put it my friend, but we don't need denominations to have an orchestra, it is all ready in place across the globe.

Saved souls, the ekklesia, where ever 2 or 3 come together in Jesus Name, those born again souls worldwide are singing His Praises, Hallelujah brother, to God be the Glory, Jesus is Lord.

Tell me something do you know what a denomination is ? A denomination is where you have two or three people of like mind having the same thought process and the same philosophy coming together.

Isn't that the same principle that you argue as being a church

And you forget one little detail the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Brother-Paul]

The church is the ekklesia, nothing made made, 100% Holy Spirit created.

It includes, men, women and children, all ages, regardless of ability, disability, colour or tongue, providing they are born again from above, they are spiritual stones in the one true church, the bride of Christ, of which Jesus is the head.

This is the only bride He is promised to, these are ones who will be with him for all eternity.

 

[Sue D.]

Sue you are multi tasking again LOL

Obviously not all at the same time.

 

[Brother-Paul]

Tell me something do you know what a denomination is ? A denomination is where you have two or three people of like mind having the same thought process and the same philosophy coming together.

Isn't that the same principle that you argue as being a church

And you forget one little detail the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

A denomination is a group of people, who like to worship a certain way, the congregation is made up of saved and unsaved souls, varying from denomination to denomination. But the true church is only the saved souls. The ekklesia is the church.

The building is also not a church, not from scripture anyway. It is a word introduced by the RCC, around 500 AD I thing, not sure on the date, I am sure of the fact. They called the church building a church using the Word kuriakon, but this word is no where in scripture.

 

[Bill]

I've never said that passion / emotions are Bad at all. Our ways of expressing that varies by the individual.

I've never cursed in my life -- I'm not an overly emotional person. I'm in my early 70's.

You're talking about young people. I've never really been the jump up and down kind of person for much anything.

Have Always been a conservative, book-reading, bike riding , TV watching kind of person.

Sorry If I disappoint you in this area.

I do feel deeply -- don't like to cry in front of anyone. The only time I cried around people was in the children's ER at Dell Children's Hospital when my grandson died. He was almost 14 yrs. of age.

The comment had been made about how people in Pentecostal churches respond during church services. And apparently that particular poster felt that a 'spirit-filled' worshiper should be worshiping in a 'spirited' way.
That's probably why I'm not in a Pentecostal Church. I'm a conservative Baptist.

It's okay Sue I know you and I know your heart and I will be so happy to see you when you are in heaven because everything that's inside of you that's all wound up a is the best way to put it but all that happiness and all that craziness that's inside of you is going to come out of you you will be so full of laughter and everything else it's just going to be nuts that little kid that's inside of you is just going to go crazy

 

[Sue D.]

Tell me something do you know what a denomination is ? A denomination is where you have two or three people of like mind having the same thought process and the same philosophy coming together.

Isn't that the same principle that you argue as being a church

And you forget one little detail the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

A denomination is being Lutheran, Baptist, RCC, etc. a belief System. I'm Baptist rather than Methodist or Lutheran or any of the others.

And that is Also a church -- where two or three are gathered together in My name, there I am in the midst thereof.

 

[Brother-Paul]

A denomination is being Lutheran, Baptist, RCC, etc. a belief System. I'm Baptist rather than Methodist or Lutheran or any of the others.

And that is Also a church -- where two or three are gathered together in My name, there I am in the midst thereof.

They are denominations Sue, man made. The Church is the ekklesia, the born again souls. No matter how many people are in a congregation, only the born again ones are the ekklesia, the true church, the bride of Christ. The others are lost souls, to take Jesus words, if God is not their father the devil is.

See the following link, Post 142 & 147

What is... the "church"?

I did not direct my post to you, even though you had taken offense. The Holy Spirit directed me to say what I did. I did not know who it is intended for, but when the Holy Spirit moves you to say something, you will say it, if you have any wisdom. As for wisdom, the only wisdom I have is...

www.talkjesus.com

 

[Brother-Paul]

A denomination is being Lutheran, Baptist, RCC, etc. a belief System. I'm Baptist rather than Methodist or Lutheran or any of the others.

And that is Also a church -- where two or three are gathered together in My name, there I am in the midst thereof.

Dear Sue,

Have you ever asked, why are there so many belief systems, yet they all profess to worship the same God, the same Jesus?

Denominations are man made, created following the Reformation, after so many errors reported in the RCC, 95 Theses, drawn up by Dr Martin Luther, early 1500's.

It was man's attempt at restoring God's church! Some said I believe this, some said they believe that, some were influenced by this person, some another person. So they all went in 'different ways'. Yet say the worship the same God!

Every denomination 'leans' a certain way and guides the congregation in there way. Baptist for instance and baptism, Pentecostal tongues, Methodism the Wesley brothers etc. etc. They all went different ways, yet they all say they are right with God.

 

[Bill]

They are denominations Sue, man made. The Church is the ekklesia, the born again souls. No matter how many people are in a congregation, only the born again ones are the ekklesia, the true church, the bride of Christ. The others are lost souls, to take Jesus words, if God is not their father the devil is.

See the following link, Post 142 & 147

What is... the "church"?

I did not direct my post to you, even though you had taken offense. The Holy Spirit directed me to say what I did. I did not know who it is intended for, but when the Holy Spirit moves you to say something, you will say it, if you have any wisdom. As for wisdom, the only wisdom I have is...

www.talkjesus.com

Pride causes blindness even to those who deem themselves saved

 

[B-A-C]

Denominations are man made, created following the Reformation, after so many errors reported in the RCC, 95 Theses, drawn up by Dr Martin Luther, early 1500's.

It was man's attempt at restoring God's church! Some said I believe this, some said they believe that, some were influenced by this person, some another person. So they all went in 'different ways'. Yet say the worship the same God!

Perhaps, but I don't think this started with the Protestant reformation (indeed there are factions within the RCC church itself).

1Cor 1:11; For I have been informed concerning you, my brethren, by Chloe's people, that there are quarrels among you.
1Cor 1:12; Now I mean this, that each one of you is saying, "I am of Paul," and "I of Apollos," and "I of Cephas," and "I of Christ."
1Cor 1:13; Has Christ been divided? Paul was not crucified for you, was he? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?

It seems there has been division in the church since the beginning, even when Paul was still preaching.

1Cor 3:1; And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual men, but as to men of flesh, as to infants in Christ.
1Cor 3:2; I gave you milk to drink, not solid food; for you were not yet able to receive it. Indeed, even now you are not yet able,
1Cor 3:3; for you are still fleshly. For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like mere men?
1Cor 3:4; For when one says, "I am of Paul," and another, "I am of Apollos," are you not mere men?
1Cor 3:5; What then is Apollos? And what is Paul? Servants through whom you believed, even as the Lord gave opportunity to each one.
1Cor 3:6; I planted, Apollos watered, but God was causing the growth.
1Cor 3:7; So then neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but God who causes the growth.

Mark 9:40; "For he who is not against us is for us.
Luke 9:50; But Jesus said to him, "Do not hinder him; for he who is not against you is for you."

 

[Brother-Paul]

Pride causes blindness even to those who deem themselves saved

It is important we all know it brother, but I am only replying to your message, it is not something I would say to another brother.

 

[Brother-Paul]

Perhaps, but I don't think this started with the Protestant reformation (indeed there are factions within the RCC church itself).

1Cor 1:11; For I have been informed concerning you, my brethren, by Chloe's people, that there are quarrels among you.
1Cor 1:12; Now I mean this, that each one of you is saying, "I am of Paul," and "I of Apollos," and "I of Cephas," and "I of Christ."
1Cor 1:13; Has Christ been divided? Paul was not crucified for you, was he? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?

It seems there has been division in the church since the beginning, even when Paul was still preaching.

1Cor 3:1; And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual men, but as to men of flesh, as to infants in Christ.
1Cor 3:2; I gave you milk to drink, not solid food; for you were not yet able to receive it. Indeed, even now you are not yet able,
1Cor 3:3; for you are still fleshly. For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like mere men?
1Cor 3:4; For when one says, "I am of Paul," and another, "I am of Apollos," are you not mere men?
1Cor 3:5; What then is Apollos? And what is Paul? Servants through whom you believed, even as the Lord gave opportunity to each one.
1Cor 3:6; I planted, Apollos watered, but God was causing the growth.
1Cor 3:7; So then neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but God who causes the growth.

Now that is where Pride creeps in.

'I' and 'I am' most common signs (except for God, He is, I am) - Seeking worldly power.

 

[Bill]

Dear Sue,

Have you ever asked, why are there so many belief systems, yet they all profess to worship the same God, the same Jesus?

Denominations are man made, created following the Reformation, after so many errors reported in the RCC, 95 Theses, drawn up by Dr Martin Luther, early 1500's.

It was man's attempt at restoring God's church! Some said I believe this, some said they believe that, some were influenced by this person, some another person. So they all went in 'different ways'. Yet say the worship the same God!

Every denomination 'leans' a certain way and guides the congregation in there way. Baptist for instance and baptism, Pentecostal tongues, Methodism the Wesley brothers etc. etc. They all went different ways, yet they all say they are right with God.

Does being saved mean you have the Baptism of the Holy Spirit .
Why dont you try using the Gifts of the Spirit instead of burying them under the bushel basket .

If you did use them , you would already have the correct answer.

 

[B-A-C]

Every denomination 'leans' a certain way and guides the congregation in there way. Baptist for instance and baptism, Pentecostal tongues, Methodism the Wesley brothers etc. etc. They all went different ways, yet they all say they are right with God.

This is true. Every denomination has their slant on the Bible.
But "most" of the main-stream churches accept each other as saved. They may not believe everything exactly the same way as I believe it, but they are "close enough".

Baptists, Methodists, M-S Lutherans, Pentecostals, Church of Christ, Foursquare... etc (many others, I can't remember them all) generally consider each other to be saved.

But then there are the "cult" denominations, that the main-stream churches do not accept as part of "the church".
Church of Latter Day Saints/Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Christ Scientists, etc...

Finally you have those churches people are divided about.
The Methodists, The Episcopalians, and the Lutheran ELCA... mostly due to decisions these churches have made about gay marriage, and gay clergy.

 

[Bill]

It is important we all know it brother, but I am only replying to your message, it is not something I would say to another brother.

I would , and do . Because it needs to be said .

Do you think i care what people think of me here .

And to be honest , for a Christian websight to have a ranking for how many people like your comments , etc. Is preposterous. That only invites a certain level of Pride

 

[Brother-Paul]

You have weird views Bill, I do not give one iota what the so called ranking system states. I am here because I like the fellowship, most of the time,I am disabled, I am retired, I have time on my hands, I am not here to bicker with people who make statements like some you have made above.

You make statements to condemn how the website is run, forum is run, we don't want to lose you brother, but like me there are two options. Make a suggestion through the Chad, or don't look at them.

As for myself, I do come and go, not in a negative sense. There are times when I have to withdraw due to health, and times when I fight it as long as I can. I love to help people where I can, i love to dig deep into scripture, scripture is always worth debating, considering as many verses on a topic as possible, allowing the Holy Spirit to guide us individually and as a group. There are many surprises in scripture, we should always be open and ready for them.

To be honest Bill, you seem to have negative comments, when ever someone says something that doesn't match your thinking.

Peace be with you brother.