Theistic Evolution vs Genesis Creation. Which is true? And why!

[KingJ]

But even if it was true. What caused the Big Bang? Where did the matter from the Big Bang come from? - Science doesn't know. Mathematical theory states that something cannot come from nothing.
0 + 0 + 0 + 0 = 0 Where did the first 1 come from?

The problem with this is that no 'scientist' is going to accept this. They can only work within the space that is visible and observable. That all the evidence points to our world being created by a Being that is not limited by the laws of physics is something they refuse to consider. It would save them so much time if they just conceded. Because your statement of 0 + 0 = 0 is a fact you cannot dispute.

There simply is no evidence of evolution. We have old skeletons of small horses and dinosaurs, and we have big horses and birds now, but there is nothing in between to link them together. No missing link.
There are skeletons that look like apes, and there are skeletons that look like men. But nothing in between.

They have found a few 'missing' links. Take the tiktaalik as an example. The issue is however that they need many missing links. Many as in centillions, not hundreds or thousands or hundreds of thousands.

Take your eye. It has over 208 pieces to it. A cornea, a retina, a lens, carats, optical nerves, and many other parts. Darwin's theory states that in order for a mutation to become part of the evolution stream, it must benefit
the evolution process in some way. Any one of the parts listed above can not stand alone. All 200 mutations would have had to happen at the same instant in order to benefit the process.

This line from you is how the current theory of evolution that starts with the big bang 13.8 billion years ago is utterly debunked.

In order to arrive at a working part that consists of 208 pieces that work perfectly in harmony, from random mutation and or not so random evolution because of natural selection, is completely impossible within a 13.8 billion timespan.

Consider lotto odds. 6 winning numbers from a sample pool of 49 numbers, is a 1 in 14 million chance to win. 208 winning numbers (which an eye in its simplest form is) from a pool of say a modest 1000 components is a number that breaks my calculator. If I do 20 winning numbers from a pool of 100 we arrive at odds of 1 in 535,983,370,403,809,700,000. 1 in 535 quintillion. 12 billion is a 12 with only 9 zeros.

If we wanted to by chance arrive at 100 working parts from a sample pool of 999 components. The odds of this are 1 in 7,465,460,733,674,650,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000.

We have not even applied compounding factors to the equation. Like beauty (Two eyes perfectly placed next to each other), location for practicality (Eyes on head not on feet), all parts on the head and body working in perfect harmony. If one studied the topic properly, we would probably find about twenty valid compounding factors. Each compounding factor is number x number. IE Many more zero's. Even if we applied factors that speed up evolution, like for example evolution in a population or remove a lot of randomness for whatever natural selection reason, we will still be short many zero's.

The big bang stops on 13 787 000 000 000. It is missing many, many zero's in my humble opinion.

I mean for arguments sake, they teach in science classrooms that we come from a flatworm a mere 500 000 000 years ago????? What insanity is that?

Too many holes in evolution.

Gen 1:27; God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

God created us the way we are. Not as another species that became another species that became another species.
Another law of nature is that two species cannot create life. Two breeds can. For example two kinds of dogs can make a dog. Two kinds of cows can make a cow. Two kinds of horses can make a horse.
But a cat and a dog cannot make anything. A horse and a cow cannot make anything. But yet there are millions of kinds of species of plants and animals. They all would have had to have their own unique evolution process.

It is crystal clear that all the evidence points to intelligent design.

But in 'their' defense, they trying to work without involving any 'outside' influence. IE Nothing not limited by the laws of physics can be considered. As such the theory of evolution would seem like the most sound explanation. But that thought process should die after five minutes. One hits a brick wall with your line of 0 + 0 = 0. The only viable answer is intelligent design by a Being NOT limited by the laws of physics.

Science has to concede to the fact that for a realm limited by the laws of physics to exist, it is necessary for a realm not limited by the laws of physics to also exist.

 

[KingJ]

The overwhelming majority of people on earth today, who identify as Christians, believe that evolution is real and is happening but that it was originally set in motion by God.

That is not correct. The overwhelming majority of vocal Christians, yes. The overwhelming majority of Christians believe that God is a good God and if they understood how evil natural selection was, would not agree with ''evolution by natural selection''.

The Roman Catholic Church plus ALL of the main line Protestant denominations support or accept theistic evolution.

They support the progression of science. They do not want to be an obstacle to science. This does not mean they agree with evolution by natural selection. Show a video of natural selection at work to a church congregation and all will work out. Fact. Feel free to try it. I will bet $1 million on my statement being correct.

Pope Francis - “The theories of evolution and the Big Bang are real and God is not a magician with a magic wand, both scientific theories are not incompatible with the existence of a creator – in fact they require it. When we read about Creation in Genesis, we run the risk of imagining God was a magician, with a magic wand able to do everything. But that is not so,”

Pope Francis needs to study the topic more, clearly.

But I like how many atheists have a 'Christian gotcha' moment out of his naive statements.

 

[KingJ]

That is a literal understanding. When Genesis cannot be taken literally but metaphorically. That opens up a whole other can of worms.

Do you really believe that Eve came from Adams rib? And so on.

Why can't Genesis be taken literally?

Yes, God made Eve from Adam's rib. You don't believe that?

You need to meditate on the greatness of creation. While you are doing that meditate on the greatness of your mind that is currently meditating. Imagine meditating without it. I often ask atheists to respond to my questions about intelligent design without using their clearly God given / intelligently designed hands, mouth and brain matter .

God is clearly great as creation is amazing. It should be a given that He be able to speak something into existence / make Eve from Adam's rib.

If you don't think God can do this, there are many scriptures you have not read or are dealing with. Let's start with the red sea parting, do you believe God did that or was it a freak windstorm?

 

[Hekuran]

The problem with this is that no 'scientist' is going to accept this. They can only work within the space that is visible and observable. That all the evidence points to our world being created by a Being that is not limited by the laws of physics is something they refuse to consider. It would save them so much time if they just conceded. Because your statement of 0 + 0 = 0 is a fact you cannot dispute.



They have found a few 'missing' links. Take the tiktaalik as an example. The issue is however that they need many missing links. Many as in centillions, not hundreds or thousands or hundreds of thousands.



This line from you is how the current theory of evolution that starts with the big bang 13.8 billion years ago is utterly debunked.

In order to arrive at a working part that consists of 208 pieces that work perfectly in harmony, from random mutation and or not so random evolution because of natural selection, is completely impossible within a 13.8 billion timespan.

Consider lotto odds. 6 winning numbers from a sample pool of 49 numbers, is a 1 in 14 million chance to win. 208 winning numbers (which an eye in its simplest form is) from a pool of say a modest 1000 components is a number that breaks my calculator. If I do 20 winning numbers from a pool of 100 we arrive at odds of 1 in 535,983,370,403,809,700,000. 1 in 535 quintillion. 12 billion is a 12 with only 9 zeros.

If we wanted to by chance arrive at 100 working parts from a sample pool of 999 components. The odds of this are 1 in 7,465,460,733,674,650,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000.

We have not even applied compounding factors to the equation. Like beauty (Two eyes perfectly placed next to each other), location for practicality (Eyes on head not on feet), all parts on the head and body working in perfect harmony. If one studied the topic properly, we would probably find about twenty valid compounding factors. Each compounding factor is number x number. IE Many more zero's. Even if we applied factors that speed up evolution, like for example evolution in a population or remove a lot of randomness for whatever natural selection reason, we will still be short many zero's.

The big bang stops on 13 787 000 000 000. It is missing many, many zero's in my humble opinion.

I mean for arguments sake, they teach in science classrooms that we come from a flatworm a mere 500 000 000 years ago????? What insanity is that?



It is crystal clear that all the evidence points to intelligent design.

But in 'their' defense, they trying to work without involving any 'outside' influence. IE Nothing not limited by the laws of physics can be considered. As such the theory of evolution would seem like the most sound explanation. But that thought process should die after five minutes. One hits a brick wall with your line of 0 + 0 = 0. The only viable answer is intelligent design by a Being NOT limited by the laws of physics.

Science has to concede to the fact that for a realm limited by the laws of physics to exist, it is necessary for a realm not limited by the laws of physics to also exist.

Yes. If your talking to someone who says they are a scientist, it's good to find out if that means they are a materialist.

A scientist uses observable data to understand how the material world functions. That's not in any way in conflict with faith in God.

A materialist believes that there is nothing besides the physical, observable world - that absolutely everything has a scientific explanation.

 

[Hekuran]

Let's start with the red sea parting, do you believe God did that or was it a freak windstorm?

Isn't it possible that it's both - God used natural events to bring about his purposes?

 

[KingJ]

Yes. If your talking to someone who says they are a scientist, it's good to find out if that means they are a materialist.

A scientist uses observable data to understand how the material world functions. That's not in any way in conflict with faith in God.

A materialist believes that there is nothing besides the physical, observable world - that absolutely everything has a scientific explanation.

Interesting fact that. Thanks for sharing.

I would just amend your last line too, 'a materialist would restrict a scientific explanation to their 'material only', belief'.

Science needs to include the spiritual as fact. Science taught cannot be restricted by a 'materialist's' beliefs.

 

[KingJ]

Isn't it possible that it's both - God used natural events to bring about his purposes?

It can be both, yes. But in the example given, it was clearly not. As is the case with rib from Adam = Eve.