this is a battle between good and evil, they need our prayers

[Dave M]

 

[Trevor]

I am called to obey the law of the land.

 

[Dave M]

I am called to obey the law of the land.

not when it is against God word, this is clear to some and yet not so clear to others. WHats going on here is a direct attack to the church, shame you cant see that

 

[Dave M]

when we look at singling out of the church especially in Calif we get a clear picture, and the first bible verse that comes to my mind is

Acts 5:29
But Peter and the apostles answered, “We must obey God rather than men.

now I do agree with you Tevor that we are suppose to obey the law of the land, until it is blatent that the law is against preaching the gospel, and this is what is going on here. These pastors all obeyed the law when it first came out, but then they realized the virus was being manuplilated for a agenda, and stood up against the unconstitutional law . They are doing the right thing, I pray that you see that sometime soon. But I respect your position and if you dont want to go to church dont go, but why should anyone who wants to go be held back

 

[Trevor]

not when it is against God word, this is clear to some and yet not so clear to others. WHats going on here is a direct attack to the church, shame you cant see that

I always believed that the church was made of living stones Dave, and wherever two or more of those stones are gathered together Jesus is there in the midst, shame you can't see that. Satan will never defeat the church of Christ.

 

[Enxu]

when we look at singling out of the church especially in Calif we get a clear picture, and the first bible verse that comes to my mind is

Acts 5:29
But Peter and the apostles answered, “We must obey God rather than men.

now I do agree with you Tevor that we are suppose to obey the law of the land, until it is blatent that the law is against preaching the gospel, and this is what is going on here. These pastors all obeyed the law when it first came out, but then they realized the virus was being manuplilated for a agenda, and stood up against the unconstitutional law . They are doing the right thing, I pray that you see that sometime soon. But I respect your position and if you dont want to go to church dont go, but why should anyone who wants to go be held back

It takes faith for people to be like the apostles, who were ready to disobey men in order to obey God. Sadly, true faith is lacking in the visible church.

Jesus did say, “When the Son of Man returns, will He find faith on earth?”

I can safely bet that at least 80% of “Christians” living in comfort today are more about self preservation than anything. They will never put themselves in a disadvantaged position by disobeying the laws of men to obey God, much less be hated and killed like Jesus’s disciples were in the times of Roman persecution since they won’t even give up their daily comforts. When any persecution comes, they will be ready to fall away and forsake the narrow path, because they were in it for themselves right from the start. There is no concept of sacrifice in their faith, it’s all about escaping hell, getting eternal rewards while living a lifestyle that is self-centered.

The authenticity of their faith isn’t shown in how correct they are in their theological beliefs, but in their actions. A person who will not deny himself and take up his cross (which is all about self sacrifice) was never Jesus’ disciple no matter what denomination he professes. Jesus specifically mentioned this kind of self sacrifice as the hallmark of who truly belongs to Him. I have been pointing this condition of Christians out for years and much of what I said fell on deaf ears because it was too uncomfortable and “judgmental”. Now its evident isn’t it?

 

[Dave M]

I always believed that the church was made of living stones Dave, and wherever two or more of those stones are gathered together Jesus is there in the midst, shame you can't see that. Satan will never defeat the church of Christ.

I concur but the word tells us not to neglect to meet togeather and encourage eachother, now we have a gonverment telling us NO we cant do that in Calif and these men are standing up to them. May I ask before all this happened did you attend a place of worship

It takes faith for people to be like the apostles, who were ready to disobey men in order to obey God. Sadly, true faith is lacking in the visible church.

Jesus did say, “When the Son of Man returns, will He find faith on earth?”

I can safely bet that at least 80% of “Christians” living in comfort today are more about self preservation than anything. They will never die for their faith like Jesus’s disciples did in the times of Roman persecution since they won’t even give up their daily comforts. When any persecution comes, they will be ready to fall away and forsake the narrow path, because they were in it for themselves right from the start. There is no concept of sacrifice in their faith, it’s all about escaping hell, getting eternal rewards while living a lifestyle that is self-centered.

The authenticity of their faith isn’t shown in how correct they are in their theological beliefs, but in their actions. A person who will not deny himself and take up his cross (which is all about self sacrifice) was never Jesus’ disciple no matter what denomination he professes. I have been pointing this condition of Christians out for years and much of what I said fell on deaf ears because it was too uncomfortable and “judgmental”. Now its evident isn’t it?

preach it !!

 

[Trevor]

I concur but the word tells us not to neglect to meet togeather and encourage eachother, now we have a gonverment telling us NO we cant do that in Calif and these men are standing up to them. May I ask before all this happened did you attend a place of worship


peach it !!

We have a house fellowship Dave, and our Lord dwells in our house. and Enxu I don't know what peach it means?

 

[Enxu]

I am called to obey the law of the land.

If the law of the land says Jesus is not the Christ and you are to believe in Allah, are you going to obey that?

 

[Dave M]

and Enxu I don't know what peach it means?

typo should of said preach it, have a good weekend, sorry if I offended you when I said a shame you cant see it.

 

[Trevor]

If the law of the land says Jesus is not the Christ and you are to believe in Allah, are you going to obey that?

Romans 13:1-2 "Obey the government, for God is the One who has put it there. There is no government anywhere that God has not placed in power. So those who refuse to obey the law of the land are refusing to obey God, and punishment will follow."

 

[Trevor]

typo should of said preach it, have a good weekend, sorry if I offended you when I said a shame you cant see it.

No offence Dave, I thought that's what it meant, but I didn't wish to be presumptuous. Bless you.

 

[Dave M]

Romans 13:1-2 "Obey the government, for God is the One who has put it there. There is no government anywhere that God has not placed in power. So those who refuse to obey the law of the land are refusing to obey God, and punishment will follow."

this may help

 

[Brad Huber]

Spirits have been at war for a long time, often influencing humans to do things to further the agenda of their masters, God or satan. God influences people to write books, create music, paintings, stories, plays, even films that show people seeking good things and the rewards that follow, hoping to help people to see how following God and His ideals for us. Likewise, satan, always trying to copy God, also influences people to do the same sort of things promoting the many types of sin, and the fun that can be found through rebelliousness. And thats just the battles they wage through us humans, the spiritual battles in the heavens must be/have been astounding.

 

[Enxu]

Romans 13:1-2 "Obey the government, for God is the One who has put it there. There is no government anywhere that God has not placed in power. So those who refuse to obey the law of the land are refusing to obey God, and punishment will follow."

I asked a question but you didn’t answer. Paul did say obey governments, he did not say obey governments even if they tell us to disobey God. Besides, Paul was specifically talking about the power of governments to punish evil, Christians are to obey governments in that respect.

Romans 13:3 (NLT): For the authorities do not strike fear in people who are doing right, but in those who are doing wrong. Would you like to live without fear of the authorities? Do what is right, and they will honor you.

To claim that Paul instructs Christians to obey governments under every circumstance and at all costs is to be at odds with what Peter and the apostles said in Acts, who evidently chose to disobey their governing rulers to obey God.

Acts 5:29
But Peter and the apostles answered, “We must obey God rather than men.

Once again I ask, if the law of the land tells you to deny Christ and believe in Allah, who will you obey: God or men? This is not a hypothetical situation and had been going on in the Middle East persecution of Christians for centuries.

 

[Hekuran]

To understand Romans 13 properly, you need to be sensitive to the situation Paul was addressing. These were small communities of people - Jew and non-Jew - in Rome, the heart of the empire. Jewish nationalism was riding high, the letter was probably written around ten years before the first Jewish--Roman war. Violent rebellion was in the air.

And Paul's instruction to the church is to not get caught up in it. The kingdom of God does not advance by the sword.

 

[Trevor]

I asked a question but you didn’t answer. Paul did say obey governments, he did not say obey governments even if they tell us to disobey God. Besides, Paul was specifically talking about the power of governments to punish evil, Christians are to obey governments in that respect.

Romans 13:3 (NLT): For the authorities do not strike fear in people who are doing right, but in those who are doing wrong. Would you like to live without fear of the authorities? Do what is right, and they will honor you.

To claim that Paul instructs Christians to obey governments under every circumstance and at all costs is to be at odds with what Peter and the apostles said in Acts, who evidently chose to disobey their governing rulers to obey God.

Acts 5:29
But Peter and the apostles answered, “We must obey God rather than men.

Once again I ask, if the law of the land tells you to deny Christ and believe in Allah, who will you obey: God or men? This is not a hypothetical situation and had been going on in the Middle East persecution of Christians for centuries.

In the scripture I posted Enxu, it states that God put all governments in power, no matter what their politics. If you wish to twist scripture to suit your own understandings that's up to you, but remember there is a penalty attached to the scripture I posted, if you wish to disregard it, that is your choice. I did not post my own interpretation of scripture, I just posted a scripture, make of it what you will.

 

[Enxu]

In the scripture I posted Enxu, it states that God put all governments in power, no matter what their politics. If you wish to twist scripture to suit your own understandings that's up to you, but remember there is a penalty attached to the scripture I posted, if you wish to disregard it, that is your choice. I did not post my own interpretation of scripture, I just posted a scripture, make of it what you will.

Your refusal to answer a simple question of mine is evidence of where your faith lies. I have not interpreted the Scriptures at all other than stating what is happening in the real world: Christians are forced to make choices between keeping faith in Christ or denying Christ to obey their human rulers since the day of Roman Empire until today.

Peter and the apostles in Acts showed that they will disobey their governments and obey God’s command when the two parties are at odds with each other. You on the other hand, have decided to accuse me falsely (like many times you did before) of twisting Scriptures when you can’t give a straightforward answer as to where your true loyalties lie. Clearly, you are fine with denying Christ in order to obey governments, that marks the end of this conversation.

 

[Andyindauk]

I asked a question but you didn’t answer. Paul did say obey governments, he did not say obey governments even if they tell us to disobey God. Besides, Paul was specifically talking about the power of governments to punish evil, Christians are to obey governments in that respect.

Romans 13:3 (NLT): For the authorities do not strike fear in people who are doing right, but in those who are doing wrong. Would you like to live without fear of the authorities? Do what is right, and they will honor you.

To claim that Paul instructs Christians to obey governments under every circumstance and at all costs is to be at odds with what Peter and the apostles said in Acts, who evidently chose to disobey their governing rulers to obey God.

Acts 5:29
But Peter and the apostles answered, “We must obey God rather than men.

Once again I ask, if the law of the land tells you to deny Christ and believe in Allah, who will you obey: God or men? This is not a hypothetical situation and had been going on in the Middle East persecution of Christians for centuries.

I think sometimes we really don't appreciate the freedoms that our lovely God has blessed us in the West with.

Some take it for granted and don't bother to vote at elections, others try to unpick or deny those freedoms by taking on a mantle of victimhood. They'll seize on an issue, break a rule or regulation or law and when they get punished then cry persecution, somehow feeling that they are in solidarity with our Christian brothers and sisters in countries like Chad, North Korea, Burkina Faso. Recent examples are hoteliers who've turned away gay couples, another refusing to take off a piece of jewellery in the shape of a cross and now disregarding covid regulations by opening church services.

These regulations apply equally to nightclubs, theatres, cinemas and concert venues so no, this is not persecution, this is the State imposing regulations to protect its citizens from a deadly virus. There are plenty of churches that circumvent these regulations by holding services via Zoom so yes, picking a fight with the State like this is contrary to the teaching of the apostles who genuinely feared for their lives as a result of actual persecution when they wrote their advice.

But to answer your question @Enxu, if the state regulation is merely an inconvenience to your faith then the Bible tells us we must obey and respect it. However, if the regulation were to order us to worship another god then clearly that Rule must be be disobeyed -
and that whoever does not fall down and worship will be thrown into a blazing furnace. Daniel 3:11 NIV

We can't claim to have any sort of solidarity or shared experience with those poor Christian brothers and sisters who are tortured horrifically in North Korea in order to extract from them the names of fellow believers or converts in Iran who are forced to re convert back to Islam and face execution if they don't.

 

[Trevor]

that marks the end of this conversation

bless you Enxu.