Thoughts Vs Actions

[TouchTestimony]

Is it only our actions that we will be held responsible, or do we also have to account for our thoughts that do not translate into actions???

 

[agua]

Jas 4:17 NKJV Therefore, to him who knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is sin.

 

[Giggles4God]

When I think of thoughts, I think of this verse


2 Corinthians 10:5 “Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;”


If we are to bring thoughts into captivity...or submission to the obedience of Christ...I would DEFINITELY say YES we are going to have to answer for our thoughts too.

For thoughts are a lot of times...the root of actions.

 

[sojourn4Christ]

don't even think about it...

Is it only our actions that we will be held responsible, or do we also have to account for our thoughts that do not translate into actions???

According to the Word of God, it is our thoughts which will receive the greater condemnation, as all willful actions begin first as thoughts. For example, if you simply thought about sleeping with that woman, you have already committed adultery with her, which makes you not only an adulterer, but also a coward because you lack the courage to put your thoughts into action.

 

[TouchTestimony]

and again, thank you guys

 

[eddieb]

how did issac get his name? his momma laughed. inside.
Jesus said if you look at a woman lustfully u commit adultry in your heart. now i know looking is an action but not touching and commiting sin in your heart is something to consider.
God wants a pure heart. thats where he lives.

thoughts come and go. to entertain a bad thought is bad. the thought will drop from your head into your heart. let peace be your guide. when the peace goes from your heart and is replaced with that unclean feeling repentance is in order.

Matt 22:37
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, AND WITH ALL THY MIND.

 

[my_little_pony]

it is our thoughts which will receive the greater condemnation, as all willful actions begin first as thoughts. For example, if you simply thought about sleeping with that woman, you have already committed adultery with her,

Hi everyone. I don't fully agree with this line of reasoning though I think there is room for discussion here.

Sojuorn suggests that if we even think about something immoral, then we become guilty (i.e. thinking of sex with a person who is not our spouse).

I don't think that really covers the spirit of what Jesus is saying. People have suggesting that negative thoughts will be judged, because they lead to negative actions.

But what about negative thoughts that people have, which they do not act on? What about people who may consider immoral sex, but then decide against it because they don't want to be immoral. Technically, they thought about it, but in the end they chose NOT to follow through, and for the right reasons. I don't think God will judge them as sinners for that.

My understanding of "lust" is something that we want to do, but only refrain from for fear of being caught. So, if we want to have immoral sex, but only stop ourselves because we don't want to get into trouble then that is lust. If we only stop ourselves because we think we can't get away with it, that is lust.

But if we stop ourselves because we genuinely care about what God wants, I don't think that fits with what Jesus was getting at.

 

[Furious_Love]

Is it only our actions that we will be held responsible, or do we also have to account for our thoughts that do not translate into actions???

[Gen 6:5] When the LORD saw how great was man's wickedness on earth, and how no desire that his heart conceived was ever anything but evil.

God hardened Pharoah’s heart and the actions followed.

I think God will judge our thoughts because they stem from the Heart. [Luke 6:45] A good person out of the store of goodness in his heart produces good, but an evil person out of a store of evil produces evil; for from the fullness of the heart the mouth speaks.

From the heart to the mind, and from the mind action, God asks us to have a sound mind [2 Tim 1:7] Think of what is above [Col 3:2] and not of what is on earth and not let fantasy become the reality because we are in a battle for the mind [Eph 6:12].

We are told to bring all our thoughts into captivity [2 Cor 10:3] For, although we are in the flesh, we do not battle according to the flesh, [4] for the weapons of our battle are not of flesh but are enormously powerful, capable of destroying fortresses. We destroy arguments [5] and every pretension raising itself against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive in obedience to Christ.

That is how important I think your question is to believers. Out of the heart the mind follows and action is next...We will be judged for all we have done. Jesus said if we commit the sin in our heart it is already counted as sin. [Matt 5:28]

These are just my thoughts
God Bless.

 

[TouchTestimony]

But what about negative thoughts that people have, which they do not act on? What about people who may consider immoral sex, but then decide against it because they don't want to be immoral. Technically, they thought about it, but in the end they chose NOT to follow through, and for the right reasons. I don't think God will judge them as sinners for that.

quite in line in my train of thought.

 

[my_little_pony]

Jesus said if we commit the sin in our heart it is already counted as sin.

Sure, but touch and I have suggested that it is not a "sin in the heart" to simply think of something immoral.

Your reasoning that immoral thoughts are sinful is a bit too black and white, and does not account for what happens when a person thinks of something immoral, and then chooses NOT to act on it.

Just as thinking good thoughts does not always lead to someone acting in a good way, so too will thinking of bad thoughts not always lead to someone acting on those bad thoughts.

There is a saying, "you can't stop a bird from flying over your head, but you can stop it from nesting there".

I can't remember where, now, but I suggested that God created Satan (or evil) to give people something NOT to choose. It is the discipline that comes as a result of facing immoral thoughts and choosing NOT to act on them that helps us to grow and developes character in our spirits.

 

[sojourn4Christ]

a saved sinner

Here's the situation that mankind is presently in:

As a man thinks in his heart, so is he. (Proverbs 23:7) This implies that man does indeed have a choice concerning what he thinks about - regardless if he acts on those thoughts or not. Since we recall that sin is a choice, it follows that we can choose to not entertain any sinful thoughts.

Yet, the heart of man resides in the pit: The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings. (Jeremiah 17:9, 10)

Does anyone really believe that 'Jesus had sinful thoughts that he decided to not act on'? There is absolutely no scriptural precedent for that.

The only way out of the condemnation that surely results from any single sinful thought, whatever its result, is through a blood-bought relationship with Jesus Christ.

 

[B-A-C]

Keep in mind, being tempted is not a sin.
Jesus himself was tempted.

Mat 4:1 Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.
Mat 4:2 And after He had fasted forty days and forty nights, He then became hungry.
Mat 4:3 And the tempter came and said to Him, "If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread."
...also see Mark 1:13, and Luke 4:2, 13)

Heb 4:15 For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin.

Jas 1:14 But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust.
Jas 1:15 Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death.

It would seem that being tempted, is not the same thing as sinning. There are certain thoughts, that simply by thinking on them too long crosses over into sin. But just because a sinful or lustful thought enters your mind does not mean that you have sinned (yet).

 

[sojourn4Christ]

the mind of Christ

Keep in mind, being tempted is not a sin.

Indeed.

It would seem that being tempted, is not the same thing as sinning

Indeed, as we pray that the Lord would lead us not into temptation. (Matt 6:13; Luke 11:4)

There are certain thoughts, that simply by thinking on them too long crosses over into sin.

Indeed. But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin...and...death (James 1:14, 15)

But just because a sinful or lustful thought enters your mind does not mean that you have sinned (yet).

Rather, the mere observation of a sinful act is not "sinful" or "lustful" until one "...is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed."

One who has truly taken on the mind of Christ would not direct any thought toward sinning i.e. would not entertain sinful or lustful thoughts, would not be lustfully enticed -- regardless of what he may observe. The fact that mankind fails this test, is prima facie evidence that mankind is a fallen race and, outside of Christ, lost forever.

Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him. Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God...Do not err, my beloved brethren. (James 1:13-15)

 

[TouchTestimony]

Sure, but touch and I have suggested that it is not a "sin in the heart" to simply think of something immoral.

Your reasoning that immoral thoughts are sinful is a bit too black and white, and does not account for what happens when a person thinks of something immoral, and then chooses NOT to act on it.

Just as thinking good thoughts does not always lead to someone acting in a good way, so too will thinking of bad thoughts not always lead to someone acting on those bad thoughts.

There is a saying, "you can't stop a bird from flying over your head, but you can stop it from nesting there".

I can't remember where, now, but I suggested that God created Satan (or evil) to give people something NOT to choose. It is the discipline that comes as a result of facing immoral thoughts and choosing NOT to act on them that helps us to grow and developes character in our spirits.

could not have said it better myself, cheerio!!

 

[my_little_pony]

This implies that man does indeed have a choice concerning what he thinks about

A man walks into a bar. He walks up to a woman in skimpy clothing with large breasts practically falling out. She's so hot he can't stand it anymore. He takes her to a room upstairs. They both take their clothing off and he inserts his ***** into her ******.

Did anyone reading this just sin? What if I say that the man and the woman were already married and acting out a role play scenario? Did they sin?

Did I sin by typing out such a scenario onto a christian forum? I only described what any middle schooler can read about in a text book at school.

I think we need to get away from this religious attitude which suggests that mere thoughts are sin. It's true that immoral thoughts CAN lead to sin, but that is not the same as saying immoral thoughts are sin.

Keep in mind, being tempted is not a sin.
Jesus himself was tempted.

Excellent point. If Jesus was fully human, and temped in every way that humans are tempted in, that MUST include sexual temptation. I think it is unfair to Jesus' determination and loyalty to God to suggest that he never had thoughts about sex.

Of course he had thoughts about sex, but he chose to disregard them in favor of obedience to God. It's not a shame to think about sex. It is not lust to think about sex. It is a shame, and lust, to ACT on those thoughts.

In fact, I believe it shows courage, backbone, and faith to think about immoral acts, and then NOT act on them because we want to be faithful to God.

I'm not suggesting that we should encourage immoral thinking for the sake of righteousness, but that immoral thoughts will come no matter how disciplined we try to be. We are IN the world, but not of it.

Everyday we are bombarded with immorality. It is impossible and unreasonable to expect that we will never even THINK a single immoral thought.

The real test is what we DO with those thoughts.

 

[will]

One of the most well-known records of temptation in the Bible is Joseph and Potiphar's wife, let's see what is written in the Scriptures:

Genesis 39:
6 So Potiphar left everything he had in Joseph’s care; with Joseph in charge, he did not concern himself with anything except the food he ate.
Now Joseph was well-built and handsome, 7 and after a while his master’s wife took notice of Joseph and said, “Come to bed with me!” 8 But he refused. “With me in charge,” he told her, “my master does not concern himself with anything in the house; everything he owns he has entrusted to my care. 9 No one is greater in this house than I am. My master has withheld nothing from me except you, because you are his wife. How then could I do such a wicked thing and sin against God?” 10 And though she spoke to Joseph day after day, he refused to go to bed with her or even be with her.

Few things we should notice:

1. The temptation described here is not a one-day event, it is relentless and progressed for quite some time.

2. Joseph could not have escaped the thought of having an affair with Potiphar's wife during this time of temptation. If he could, he would not have been a normal human being.

3. Notice what prevented him from giving into the temptation, he said: "How then could I do such a wicked thing and sin against God?" Notice that it is not because Joseph didn't think about sinning; rather, it's because Joseph values his relationship with the Lord more.


Conclusion:

To be able to take such difficult decision in the face of temptations, his relationship with God would have to be stronger than the temptations.

So it is for us today, God has given us two precious gifts to help us grow strong relationship with Him: the Scriptures and the Holy Spirit indwelling in our hearts (kardia in Greek, which is not only the place for emotion, but also the center of reasoning).


Application:

Evil thoughts will come from many directions including from within our own mind, that is why we are commanded to grow in the matters of God. How? by immersing ourselves in the study of the Scriptures, under the guidance and illumination from the Holy Spirit.

The more we do that, the more we will be able to take hold of the temptations before us.

The common mistake nowadays is to expect believers that are still babies in Christ to withstand huge temptations, while saying that failing to resist the temptation means that they are not yet saved.

Instead we have to tell them to keep on pressing to know God more through the Scriptures, while confessing their sins to God (not to anyone else) so they are not burdened with those. Over time this will result in spiritually-growing believers who are able to rely on their relationships with God to face temptations.

 

[Donnie Ducati]

Satin will put thoughts in our heads , its the meditation on though's thoughts that will lead to an action. Like said...cast down though's thoughts , covered in the Blood, focus on the Cross.

 

[my_little_pony]

Hi will,

Excellent example. If I remember correctly, didn't Joseph actually run away from her at one point?(update, I just checked and it appears that the queen grabbed him by his clothing and in his rush to get away she pulled his clothing off of him!)

I think the context was that he WAS feeling tempted and running away was the best way to quickly escape the cloud of seduction the queen was fluffing around him.

How could he run away if he didn't think that about what she was asking for (i.e. wild sex)?

 

[will]

Hi will,

Excellent example. If I remember correctly, didn't Joseph actually run away from her at one point?(update, I just checked and it appears that the queen grabbed him by his clothing and in his rush to get away she pulled his clothing off of him!)

I think the context was that he WAS feeling tempted and running away was the best way to quickly escape the cloud of seduction the queen was fluffing around him.

How could he run away if he didn't think that about what she was asking for (i.e. wild sex)?

Hi,

I agree that the running away part is a popular lesson from this passage.
However, realistically speaking, we are not always be able to run away from temptations.

The stronger message (lesson) here is the importance of having a strong relationship with God. Without it, we may remember to run away from temptation when we are in a spiritual high moment, but when we are feeling low, the temptation will get us without problems.

Joseph was at a disadvantage because he didn't have the Holy Spirit indwelt in his heart, as believers in the New Testament era, we do. Therefore we are in a better position to grow our fear (awe), appreciation, and love towards God because we are able to know Him through His Holy Spirit opening our mind to what's written in the Scriptures.

 

[my_little_pony]

I agree that the running away part is a popular lesson from this passage.

For the record, I've never actually had the faith to run away from temptation, but this one time, at disney world, I was with a Christian friend. We visted one particular part of the part where an Indian woman was dressed up as princess Jasmine from the "Aladdin" movie.

She was so beautiful, dressed in her skimpy costume and calling out to this friend to take a picture with him. When he agreed, she put her arm around his waist and squeezed him and he suddenly broke free of her embrace and literally ran away.

He later explained that he felt too tempted and that he needed to get away immediately.

Even though, at the time I felt he was just being a dork, I look back now and admire his sincere faith in trying to act on his conscience. To be sure, he wasn't facing nearly the amount of temptation that Joseph was probably facing, but the point is that he was sincere.