Trinity Verse Removed?

[B-A-C]

So now on a very anti Catholic forum some busily engage in condemnation anyone who fails to embrace a very Catholic doctrine

It may be a "Roman Catholic" doctrine. Still do you know of any mainstream Protestant that doesn't believe this?
How about any of say the largest 15 demonations or so?

The Orthodox church is as old (or older) than the RC church. It also believes in the Trinity. This is hardly a
"Catholics only" doctrine.

 

[amadeus2]

It may be a "Roman Catholic" doctrine. Still do you know of any mainstream Protestant that doesn't believe this?
How about any of say the largest 15 demonations or so?

The Orthodox church is as old (or older) than the RC church. It also believes in the Trinity. This is hardly a
"Catholics only" doctrine.

So then should we always go with the majority in order to remain on the Lord's side?

"Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it." Matt 7:13-14

Was Jesus willing to compromise to retain even his closest followers?

"From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?" John 6:66-67

So then should I here and now embrace the Trinity doctrine as my own simply because you and others here say that it is correct and I am wrong? Should that be the basis for my faith in God... whatever you and the others believe? Is that what Jesus taught? Is that what God teaches?


How very Christ-like are the better than 80% in these United States of America who carry the "label" of Christian? If 80% really were seeking first God's kingdom and God's righteousness don't you suppose this really would appear more like the Christian nation that some want to say that it is? Would not then most of the people that you know and meet daily appear more like Jesus?

Help us dear Lord!

 

[Curtis]

The Life that Jesus brought is received by believing, not by knowing.

Brother, you can not believe in something you don't "know". Faith comes from knowing the Word in which we speak that brings the faith so we can believe in what we know. Truth has never at any time set a person free. It's not until we "know" the truth that it sets a man free as Jesus said. (John 8:31 -32)

 

[amadeus2]

Brother, you can not believe in something you don't "know". Faith comes from knowing the Word in which we speak that brings the faith so we can believe in what we know. Truth has never at any time set a person free. It's not until we "know" the truth that it sets a man free as Jesus said. (John 8:31 -32)

Faith does not come by knowing, but according to my Bible, by "hearing":

"So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." Rom 10:17

Jesus spoke against those who looked for knowledge instead of stepping out in faith. Why do we suppose that was? Consider what Jesus said to Thomas:

"Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed." John 20:29

What is seen by only the natural eye is really seen by a blind man. A spiritually blind man cannot see the things of God and he cannot lead anyone deeper into God's truth because he really does not KNOW what it is. He is blind and cannot see:

"And he spake a parable unto them, Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch?" Luke 6:39

But long before Jesus was born to Mary in Bethlehem, Solomon wrote these words:
"Where there is no vision, the people perish... " Prov 29:18

The apostle Paul also wrote of this vision but his verse makes it clear that it was not yet really clear, but "as through a glass darkly":

"For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." I Cor 13:12

We cannot "know" because we cannot see clearly. How do improve or get our vision improved?

Jesus did it here:

"And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought.
And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking.
After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly." Mark 8:23-25

But how are we to do it?

"I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see." Rev 3:18

What else would this eyesalve be but the Holy Ghost, the Holy anointing of God?

How much do we know and how much do we only believe? I suspect that no one here can honestly draw the line between what they know of the things of God and what they only believe. Certainly we have knowledge, but any of us who started out as Catholics did have knowledge as well. Some of our knowledge was wrong. Why was it that God called us out of "her"? Has anyone ever been called out of places other than Catholicism?

Faith should be moving toward knowledge. For anyone who is growing toward God by allowing the Holy Spirit to work in them. This is moving from that "as through a glass darkly" toward that "face to face". Consider this verse:

"Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God." Heb 12:2

Notice that Jesus is the author [initiator or beginner] of our faith, but he is also the finisher thereof. The beginning is faith alone but the end is knowledge, not according man knowledge which he learned through all of his studies, but through the working of the Holy Spirit on the inside. When the work of faith is completely finished we should have only knowledge, but who can get there by his brain power? No one! The Way to the knowledge of God is through faith. If it were not so then the ones with Einstein-like brains who were good students would be the closest ones to God. This is NOT how it is.

Give God the glory!

 

[KingJ]

Trinity Verse Removed?

Hi Everyone,

While reading John chapters I came across 1 John 5:7.
i realised its not in RSV!
Why is that so?

There are so many verses that point to the trinity. If you don't grasp how three can be one. Forget it. Just think about One all the time.

God came to earth and became the Son of man. God is our comforter, as the Holy Spirit. God is our Father.

The heresy is to imply Jesus is not God. IE Some unlucky fella who died for others sins. Or some mad person who claimed to be God and died for it. Both beliefs require so much ignorance to the gospels and records of Jesus.

God made a plan for mankind to be with Him which involved Him laying His life down for His creation. Because that is what a loving Father will do for His children.

The devil wants to ROB mankind of this love and truth. It makes those who know it, extremely upset. I cannot tell you how frustrated and saddened I am to hear anyone refer to Jesus as a prophet.

 

[Curtis]

Faith does not come by knowing, but according to my Bible, by "hearing":

"So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." Rom 10:17

Jesus spoke against those who looked for knowledge instead of stepping out in faith. Why do we suppose that was? Consider what Jesus said to Thomas:

"Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed." John 20:29

What is seen by only the natural eye is really seen by a blind man. A spiritually blind man cannot see the things of God and he cannot lead anyone deeper into God's truth because he really does not KNOW what it is. He is blind and cannot see:

"And he spake a parable unto them, Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch?" Luke 6:39

But long before Jesus was born to Mary in Bethlehem, Solomon wrote these words:
"Where there is no vision, the people perish... " Prov 29:18

The apostle Paul also wrote of this vision but his verse makes it clear that it was not yet really clear, but "as through a glass darkly":

"For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." I Cor 13:12

We cannot "know" because we cannot see clearly. How do improve or get our vision improved?

Jesus did it here:

"And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought.
And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking.
After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly." Mark 8:23-25

But how are we to do it?

"I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see." Rev 3:18

What else would this eyesalve be but the Holy Ghost, the Holy anointing of God?

How much do we know and how much do we only believe? I suspect that no one here can honestly draw the line between what they know of the things of God and what they only believe. Certainly we have knowledge, but any of us who started out as Catholics did have knowledge as well. Some of our knowledge was wrong. Why was it that God called us out of "her"? Has anyone ever been called out of places other than Catholicism?

Faith should be moving toward knowledge. For anyone who is growing toward God by allowing the Holy Spirit to work in them. This is moving from that "as through a glass darkly" toward that "face to face". Consider this verse:

"Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God." Heb 12:2

Notice that Jesus is the author [initiator or beginner] of our faith, but he is also the finisher thereof. The beginning is faith alone but the end is knowledge, not according man knowledge which he learned through all of his studies, but through the working of the Holy Spirit on the inside. When the work of faith is completely finished we should have only knowledge, but who can get there by his brain power? No one! The Way to the knowledge of God is through faith. If it were not so then the ones with Einstein-like brains who were good students would be the closest ones to God. This is NOT how it is.

Give God the glory!

This is very simple to understand.

You can NOT believe in something you do not know, and you certainly can NOT experience that what you do not believe.

Any time a person reads the Word of God they learn something they did not "know" before. Where does faith come from? It comes from the Word of God that causes a person to know something they did not know before!! If you don't know the Word of God then you have no faith to believe anything. If you don't have the faith that comes from knowing the Word of God, then all you have is wishful thinking that does nothing. If you say you have faith, what do you have faith in? What is the source of your faith. Faith is not just faith in nothing!!! Well, I have have faith in Jesus. Jesus is the Word of God that gives us a knowing as Jesus said......

Joh 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
Joh 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

If a person does not "KNOW" the truth, they do not know God, they only know about him.

A person who has eternal life is the person who "KNOWS" God!!

John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

 

[B-A-C]

Maybe the order of knowing and believing is important. But either way... eventually these things should be revealed to us.

John 14:21; He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will reveal Myself to him.”
John 14:22; Judas (not Iscariot) *said to Him, “Lord, what then has happened that You are going to reveal Yourself to us and not to the world?”
John 14:23; Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him.

Building your doctrine on a verse about seeing through a glass dimly just means we don't have to know anything at all. (more about that verse in a moment)

John 16:13; But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will reveal to you what is to come.
John 16:14; He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will reveal it to you.
John 16:15; All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said that He takes of Mine and will reveal it to you.

11; When I was a child, I spoke and thought and reasoned as a child. But when I grew up, I put away childish things.
12; Now we see things imperfectly, like puzzling reflections in a mirror, but then we will see everything with perfect clarity. All that I know now is partial and incomplete, but then I will know everything completely, just as God now knows me completely.

This passage isn't about remaining ignorant. It's about growing... no longer being a child. It doesn't say we will "never know" the truth until die. It says
just the opposite... we "will know everything completely".

Maybe not everything in the Universe... maybe not even everything about the Bible... we we know everything we need to know about God.

1 Cor 1:21; For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the [message preached to save those who believe

Those who believe who? Who did the world not know that we do?
Back to 1 Cor 13...

 

[Shutterbug]

1 John 5:7
The verse as written in the King James Version, Young's Literal Translation, and World English Bible does not appear in any other version to my knowledge. While the King James bible has been the standard for 400 years by many, its language has fallen out of use. In reality, the debate is not about errors, omissions, or whose version is most correct. I recall reading of a footnote in one of the old texts which was added to explain in brief the relationship of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

It is my opinion that the writers of the King James felt obliged to include the footnote in order to show that both the heavenly relationship and the earthly relationship are linked to each other. John 1:1-14 describes Jesus as the Word, who was God, and was with God during Creation. Verse 14 declares the Word came to earth and lived as a man as the only begotten son of God. Genesis 1:2 describes the Spirit of God moving across the water. Water is used for baptism as a confirmation of washing away the old self. And, the blood of Jesus was shed to atone for our sin, like the spotless lamb sacrificed by the High Priest under the Law.

Water can exist in three forms. As a vapour, we call it steam. As a liquid, we call it water. As a solid, we call it ice. The same can be linked to God in a similar manner. God is our heavenly Father and our creator. God, in the form of Jesus, is our saviour and redeemer. God, in the form of the Holy Spirit, is our comforter and helper. I appreciate as already mentioned that we perceive the nature of God as wearing sunglasses at midnight. We are not given a full perspective regarding the nature of God, but we are given enough to understand it in part for the purposes of this life. It should not be a stumbling block to be used for the purpose of division. Am I wrong?

 

[amadeus2]

Oh my! It is such a mess and I cannot help even though our God is able. I won't say more because everyone's mind is already set:

"Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts." Prov 21:2

"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." John 14:26

 

[Shutterbug]

Oh my! It is such a mess and I cannot help even though our God is able. I won't say more because everyone's mind is already set:

"Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts." Prov 21:2

"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." John 14:26

I didn't come here to perpetuate a pointless argument. I have had these same conversations with Oneness Pentecostal believers who ascribe to modalism. It is also known as Sabellianism which was taught beginning in 215. It was declared a heresy at the Council of Nicea in 325. The Oneness Pentecostal movement which began in 1900, modified modalism to say that God can do all three simultaneously. Sounds a bit like trinitarianism. Trust me, they believe all those who consider God to be triune are going to Hell lock, stock, and barrel. They also say their church has existed since Paul. When I asked if I'm wrong, it wasn't meant as a dare. Truly, correct me with reasonable Scripture if what I said was in error as I'm just an old sailor.

To Talk Jesus in general, tell me: how may churches has your faith and evangelism created as Paul did? Are you able to write books such as the apostle John did?

 

[B-A-C]

Trust me, they believe all those who consider God to be triune are going to Hell lock, stock, and barrel.

I guess I'm just a guilty the other way. Those who "Don't" believe in a triune God (the deity of Jesus) are
going to hell lock, stock and barrel.

Let me qualify that bit. Not every new Christian has a deep seated root in theology and scripture.
Maybe the day you got saved you didn't even know what the trinity was. I believe there is grace for
these situations. On the other hand, if you've been saved for years or decades, there is no excuse.

 

[amadeus2]

This is very simple to understand.

It is easy to live for God hard, but it hard to live for God easy!

You can NOT believe in something you do not know, and you certainly can NOT experience that what you do not believe.

"But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him." Heb 11:6

Any time a person reads the Word of God they learn something they did not "know" before. Where does faith come from? It comes from the Word of God that causes a person to know something they did not know before!! If you don't know the Word of God then you have no faith to believe anything. If you don't have the faith that comes from knowing the Word of God, then all you have is wishful thinking that does nothing. If you say you have faith, what do you have faith in? What is the source of your faith. Faith is not just faith in nothing!!! Well, I have have faith in Jesus. Jesus is the Word of God that gives us a knowing as Jesus said......

"Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled." Matt 5:6

Those who come hungry and come thirsty for the right things will be filled. But, the person who comes reading the Bible with the wrong spirit for the wrong purpose will not receive anything good. Consider the atheist who really is an atheist who has read the Bible for the purpose of obtaining ammunition to trip up or make followers of Jesus look bad.

In spite of people here wanting for some reason it seems to put me down, I also have faith in God and am following Jesus in order to get where God wants each one wants us to be. My source each day is found in the Bible as I read it each and every day and converse with God. We are not all in the same place, but if we love God we will go where He wants us to go, to where he directs us:

"Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?
I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase." I Cor 3:5-7

Joh 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
Joh 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

If a person does not "KNOW" the truth, they do not know God, they only know about him.

What is a "disciple"? From Strongs #3129: a learner, that is, pupil.

We are all learning, which means we do not Know everything. What we don't know we are taking by faith. This why we start with faith. In time as we serve God some of our faith with be increased by God to knowledge, but who has reached the place where he Knows all that God knows. So until we are able to see "face to face", we continue in "faith", which is still the "substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen".

A person who has eternal life is the person who "KNOWS" God!!

John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Jesus was praying for us so that we might be like him and like his Father. That whole 17th chapter is Jesus prayer on our behalf, but until we are able to see "face to face" we are still in this "world" and still tempted to sin but hopefully living by faith in and toward God. Toward knowledge is moving a believer [Not one who knows it all, but certainly one who "believes" that he is serving someone who does.]

Yes, we know God, but only in a measure. We walk by faith in order to know Him better.

 

[amadeus2]

Maybe the order of knowing and believing is important. But either way... eventually these things should be revealed to us.

John 14:21; He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will reveal Myself to him.”
John 14:22; Judas (not Iscariot) *said to Him, “Lord, what then has happened that You are going to reveal Yourself to us and not to the world?”
John 14:23; Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him.

Building your doctrine on a verse about seeing through a glass dimly just means we don't have to know anything at all. (more about that verse in a moment)

Yes, He is being revealed us as we keep His Word and as we approach His and become a place where Jesus can dwell. There are places in us that still are not fit dwelling places for Him. But... this is why the Baptist spoke these words:

"He must increase, but I must decrease." John 3:30

As the old man of me is decreased and the new man of me is increased, the time approaches when Jesus will have a place always to lay His head. Each time any one of us quenches the Holy Spirit in us we hinder the work of God in us moving us in a negative direction... taking on more of the garage, the vomit, which was already gone from us.

"And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head." Matt 8:20

How soon will each of us, [if ever], be a fit place for Jesus to lay his head? The Holy Spirit in us is doing the work [Not me], but the raw materials are what we provide according to what we consume. If we consume more garbage than "good" things [such as reading the scriptures] then likely our time will run out before we are ready... There is only the time that God has given to us in which to complete the work.

The "dark or dim glass" must become clear before we see clearly. This also is the work of the Holy Spirit in us:

"Where there is no vision, the people perish... " Prov 29:18

 

[amadeus2]

John 16:13; But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will reveal to you what is to come.
John 16:14; He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will reveal it to you.
John 16:15; All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said that He takes of Mine and will reveal it to you.

11; When I was a child, I spoke and thought and reasoned as a child. But when I grew up, I put away childish things.
12; Now we see things imperfectly, like puzzling reflections in a mirror, but then we will see everything with perfect clarity. All that I know now is partial and incomplete, but then I will know everything completely, just as God now knows me completely.

This passage isn't about remaining ignorant. It's about growing... no longer being a child. It doesn't say we will "never know" the truth until die. It says
just the opposite... we "will know everything completely".

Certainly it is about growing, but if any one of us has embraced something wrong and believed it was right or treated it as right there must be room given for correction. This applies to you and it applies to me until the final product of God is finished in us. If we are ignorant in a measure of God's truth then that measure of ignorance will be one place the Holy Spirit in us will focus his work. All of us are ignorant in a measure in the things of God. All of us know [yes, know] less than God. But as we live by faith we grow. As we quench the Holy Spirit in us, our growth is stunted. On the other hand those who are feeding the Holy Spirit in us are becoming like Him. How much like God can we become? The limit is in each of us:

"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is." I John 3:2

 

[Shutterbug]

I guess I'm just a guilty the other way. Those who "Don't" believe in a triune God (the deity of Jesus) are
going to hell lock, stock and barrel.

Let me qualify that bit. Not every new Christian has a deep seated root in theology and scripture.
Maybe the day you got saved you didn't even know what the trinity was. I believe there is grace for
these situations. On the other hand, if you've been saved for years or decades, there is no excuse.

Good morning BAC. For the most part, modalists and myself would agree to disagree. Their fixation with a number (1 God) would eventually propel them into accusing me of believing in three gods. While their justification through Scripture made sense, I always felt it seemed lacking overall. They also realized that issue because they would claim that God can do all three modes at once, sounding much like a trinitarian. Aside from that, they were very keen on the salvation and baptism in seeking the lost. How the Good Lord chooses to handle it is up to Him.

 

[Curtis]

What we don't know we are taking by faith. This why we start with faith.

You can not not take by "faith" what you do not know, because faith comes from what you know, which comes from the Word. We do not start by "faith" we start with the Word of God for that is where faith comes from. In the beginning was the Word. Everything begins with the Word.

 

[amadeus2]

Maybe not everything in the Universe... maybe not even everything about the Bible... we we know everything we need to know about God.

1 Cor 1:21; For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the [message preached to save those who believe

Those who believe who? Who did the world not know that we do?

In a given moment of our walk in this flesh with God we may indeed all that we need to know about God, but if we have time left we must continue to work for it is still day for us. Not to work is to stagnate and die. What did Jesus say about himself?

"I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.
As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world." John 9:4-5

While he was in the world, he worked because it was "day", but he left the world before he went to the cross and so with him the Light left...

"And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are." John 17:11

His Light, the "light of the world" was gone, but...it is not like we were left with nothing:

"Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid." Matt 5:14

That "ye" is you and me. Now we are the Light or there is no Light. How bright is our Light? When we sin or quench the Holy Spirit in us, it darker, even approaching the night when "no man can work".

People will say and you may that Jesus was different than us and that is true in a measure, but he was incomplete until he was on the cross and said, "It is finished" [John 19:30].

Jesus had to grow even though he was always without sin. We started at a disadvantage because we all had what Jesus never had, a history of sin... but nonetheless Jesus came and made it possible for us to be like him...

"And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man." Luke 2:52

And us...?

 

[amadeus2]

I didn't come here to perpetuate a pointless argument. I have had these same conversations with Oneness Pentecostal believers who ascribe to modalism. It is also known as Sabellianism which was taught beginning in 215. It was declared a heresy at the Council of Nicea in 325. The Oneness Pentecostal movement which began in 1900, modified modalism to say that God can do all three simultaneously. Sounds a bit like trinitarianism. Trust me, they believe all those who consider God to be triune are going to Hell lock, stock, and barrel. They also say their church has existed since Paul. When I asked if I'm wrong, it wasn't meant as a dare. Truly, correct me with reasonable Scripture if what I said was in error as I'm just an old sailor.

To Talk Jesus in general, tell me: how may churches has your faith and evangelism created as Paul did? Are you able to write books such as the apostle John did?

Do you see me arguing for some particular doctrine of men? I do not stand with what men call modalism or sabellianism or any other "ism". At one time perhaps I did, but look to my posts and my statements. What I stand for is God's truth, wherever it is and whatever it is. We know [yes, know] that Truth is Jesus [John 14:6], but how clearly and well do we know Jesus? Remember what Jesus said in this regard:

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." Matt 7:21-23

It certainly sounds to me like it is very important to know what the Father's will is and to do it. There is no mention there about the need to know exactly what God is or is not in the way of a oneness or a trinity or a godhead. God will gives us what we need if we are doing what He wants us to do? Does He wants to spend our time searching for a better explanation of the oneness or the trinity of the essence of the godhead?

"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you." Matt 6:33

 

[Curtis]

"Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled." Matt 5:6

Those who come hungry and come thirsty for the right things will be filled. But, the person who comes reading the Bible with the wrong spirit for the wrong purpose will not receive anything good. Consider the atheist who really is an atheist who has read the Bible for the purpose of obtaining ammunition to trip up or make followers of Jesus look bad.

What do you suppose God feeds those who are hungry, and thirsty? He feeds them his Word. You can read the bible your entire life and never get anything out of it until you know the truth. As Jesus once said, "Every time the Word is sown, and if it is not understood, Satan steals the Word" Understanding is a part knowing. Knowing the truth is the only way to get set free. truth alone has never set anyone free.

 

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You can not not take by "faith" what you do not know, because faith comes from what you know, which comes from the Word. We do not start by "faith" we start with the Word of God for that is where faith comes from. In the beginning was the Word. Everything begins with the Word.

Actually we do start by faith:

"But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him." Heb 11:6