Quite my point actually, that such things needs must be interpreted in consonance with the Word. While you're right about Ezekiel's wheels being living (or at least used by living things, I had trouble parsing that out) it seems as though Ezekiel gains knoledge of that through revelation. There seems to be similarity in the description of wheels in the sky that turn without any inertia. I'm not really going anywhere with that, but it does kinda make you wonder that if perhaps some UFO sightings are a common event that a current focus on science makes society interpret as aliens as opposed to a spiritual event.
UFO's
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Sorry, I did not mean to misinterpret you. We agree then.
This is the idea that definitely runs rampant not in just secular circles, but has seeped into Christian circles. You put it well saying it is interpretted according to science. We as Christians have a higher authority than "scientific knowledge" that we must look to.
Hisalone
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This thread isn't that important really, enough about it right?
One last thing I'd like to say, IF there are aliens, we'd have heard about them as facts by now, if they are way too smarter and too developed, they'd have made it clear they exist, I mean, it's year 2008! How long would it take? If it was real, it would have showed more. (Just a thought though)
God bless us all.
One last thing I'd like to say, IF there are aliens, we'd have heard about them as facts by now, if they are way too smarter and too developed, they'd have made it clear they exist, I mean, it's year 2008! How long would it take? If it was real, it would have showed more. (Just a thought though)
God bless us all.
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It seems like there's only one side of the discussion being presented here, so I thought I'd share my thoughts on a different and logical point of view.
There is also no reason to attribute these phenomena to spiritual or demonic origin. To claim aliens or UFOs are of spiritual or demonic origin is just as improbable as aliens being intelligent beings from another planet.
A very unfair comment. Scientists don't need to find life on another planet to prove the existence of evolution. There is enough evidence gathered from astronomy, embryology, geology, homology, fossils (the list goes on) in which all point to the same conclusion: evolution.
I suppose the Catholic religion needs some revising then?
And even more Christians are following the Bible, believing whatever they're told about religion. I want to point out that anyone who does not doubt, ask questions, research, and weigh the facts (and I mean facts, not scripture) is just as in the dark as the next.
This is one of the most depressing comments. One of the reasons why Christianity faded in my life was because of the restrictions it had on my subconscious mind. The thought of believing I'd have a perfect life when I die just made this life on earth now seem unimportant. I disagree now. This life is a beautiful one, and everyone needs to make the most of it. I believe you only live once, and you need to make the most of it. Be adventurous and ponder the unknown. Explore everything. Never stop your search for the truth.
These billions of galaxies your are talking about are through the view of telescopes. To find life, we're not going to simply find it by looking lightyears away through a lens. That's like trying to spot an electron on Earth from Pluto. If we're going to find life on other planets, we're going to have to send physical machines to explore and report findings.
Exactly. Follow the evidence presented.
My stance on UFOs and aliens is open minded. I'm simply going to favor the side with more evidence. So far, haven't seen much evidence. Therefore, I am only open to the possibility of life outside of our solar system due to the vastness of our universe.
There is also no reason to attribute these phenomena to spiritual or demonic origin. To claim aliens or UFOs are of spiritual or demonic origin is just as improbable as aliens being intelligent beings from another planet.
A very unfair comment. Scientists don't need to find life on another planet to prove the existence of evolution. There is enough evidence gathered from astronomy, embryology, geology, homology, fossils (the list goes on) in which all point to the same conclusion: evolution.
I suppose the Catholic religion needs some revising then?
And even more Christians are following the Bible, believing whatever they're told about religion. I want to point out that anyone who does not doubt, ask questions, research, and weigh the facts (and I mean facts, not scripture) is just as in the dark as the next.
This is one of the most depressing comments. One of the reasons why Christianity faded in my life was because of the restrictions it had on my subconscious mind. The thought of believing I'd have a perfect life when I die just made this life on earth now seem unimportant. I disagree now. This life is a beautiful one, and everyone needs to make the most of it. I believe you only live once, and you need to make the most of it. Be adventurous and ponder the unknown. Explore everything. Never stop your search for the truth.
These billions of galaxies your are talking about are through the view of telescopes. To find life, we're not going to simply find it by looking lightyears away through a lens. That's like trying to spot an electron on Earth from Pluto. If we're going to find life on other planets, we're going to have to send physical machines to explore and report findings.
Exactly. Follow the evidence presented.
My stance on UFOs and aliens is open minded. I'm simply going to favor the side with more evidence. So far, haven't seen much evidence. Therefore, I am only open to the possibility of life outside of our solar system due to the vastness of our universe.
Property Of God
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Sorry, excuse my lack of intelligence, but are you saying that you're so proud that there isn't the tinest smallest chance that you could be wrong?
Oh Yeah, I do! You're saying we are narrow minded because we don't believe in ET but you're really open minded but you mind revising as you say?
Weren't those the scientists that believed that the earth was flat? Aren't those the scientists that also support abortion, nuclear bombs and so much more?
With all do respect here, your post is very depressing in fact.
The Bible doesn't change, it's impossible that God lies or changes Himself.
We don't believe in any restrictions, we all have lives by the way.
Can you honestly have a happy life on earth? You don't seem that happy to start with.
We believe that the best is yet to come, to live your life to the fullest, means that you become so in love with this world, and God hates that, He should be glorified in all our actions, Will you glorify Him by lets say, going to a club and drinking and dancing?
If your Christian life has faded, think more about what was the cause(That'll be you BTW).
Don't blame it on anyone else, please.
Oh Yeah, I do! You're saying we are narrow minded because we don't believe in ET but you're really open minded but you mind revising as you say?
Weren't those the scientists that believed that the earth was flat? Aren't those the scientists that also support abortion, nuclear bombs and so much more?
With all do respect here, your post is very depressing in fact.
The Bible doesn't change, it's impossible that God lies or changes Himself.
We don't believe in any restrictions, we all have lives by the way.
Can you honestly have a happy life on earth? You don't seem that happy to start with.
We believe that the best is yet to come, to live your life to the fullest, means that you become so in love with this world, and God hates that, He should be glorified in all our actions, Will you glorify Him by lets say, going to a club and drinking and dancing?
If your Christian life has faded, think more about what was the cause(That'll be you BTW).
Don't blame it on anyone else, please.
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- Open minded to possible facts or "theories" is less powerful than absolute truth
You come here with premeditated "wisdom of men" instead of GOD's. No member introduction, just shoot with opinions comments and your own understanding. Nothing new on this block.
Read this:
http://www.talkjesus.com/bible-study-hall/5886-christian-catholic.html
I challenge you to dispute any of these threads:
Evidence, Prophecy, Facts - Talk Jesus
Let's see exactly how "open minded" you are to evidence. I've challenged dozens the past few months to try to dispute those. They respond in complete silence. Truth silences opinions fast.
Wow, I was not hoping for such a defensive response. I just wanted to discuss the other side as I am constantly seeking for the truth. How can one find the truth if he/she only examines one side? Your responses has really turned me away. I'm just going to clear a few things in my own defense.
1. I am not saying anyone here is narrow minded. My mother is a SDA Christian and my girlfriend is a Catholic. I was once a Christian who was baptised. I respect your belief and I hope you can do the same towards me.
2. I'm not blaming Chad on this forum for my disbelief in Christianity, I was merely using his words as an example of what has happened in my life. I have no one to blame, I am happy and thankful I no longer believe in a God.
3. "what about the thousands of artifacts proving the Holy Bible and many prophecies fulfilled since over 2,000 years ago?" What about it? It doesn't change the evidence towards evolution.
4. "I suppose the Catholic religion needs some revising then?" This was a serious question. I'm still learning about Catholicism. I have no problem with this truth. If I were a Catholic, I most definately would.
5. "I suggest you explore Jesus before telling others what to explore." I've done plenty of that and I still continue today. I've spent 18 years of my life dedicated to the Bible. Why do you assume I haven't?
6. "what book are you reading?" You don't need to read a book to know you can't find life on another planet by looking though a telescope.
7. "No member introduction, just shoot with opinions comments and your own understanding." I was going to introduce myself officially in the forum tonight. I had started reading the topic on UFO's, it kept my interest and I kept on reading. I had to post my response here first after I read everyone's comments.
During my time as a Christian, I would attend church services as usual and listen to the sermons. I'd just take in whatever was being preached about. I was 100% Christian and listened with Christian ears. Gradually I started to listen with unbiased ears. I listened the way my non-religious friends would have listened if I brought them to my church.
I wanted everyone here to listen to what I had to say with unbiased ears as well. Listen to what I said as if you were your non-religious friend. Wouldn't you want a Hindu, Buddhist, etc. to listen to what you had to say about your religion with unbiased ears?
1. I am not saying anyone here is narrow minded. My mother is a SDA Christian and my girlfriend is a Catholic. I was once a Christian who was baptised. I respect your belief and I hope you can do the same towards me.
2. I'm not blaming Chad on this forum for my disbelief in Christianity, I was merely using his words as an example of what has happened in my life. I have no one to blame, I am happy and thankful I no longer believe in a God.
3. "what about the thousands of artifacts proving the Holy Bible and many prophecies fulfilled since over 2,000 years ago?" What about it? It doesn't change the evidence towards evolution.
4. "I suppose the Catholic religion needs some revising then?" This was a serious question. I'm still learning about Catholicism. I have no problem with this truth. If I were a Catholic, I most definately would.
5. "I suggest you explore Jesus before telling others what to explore." I've done plenty of that and I still continue today. I've spent 18 years of my life dedicated to the Bible. Why do you assume I haven't?
6. "what book are you reading?" You don't need to read a book to know you can't find life on another planet by looking though a telescope.
7. "No member introduction, just shoot with opinions comments and your own understanding." I was going to introduce myself officially in the forum tonight. I had started reading the topic on UFO's, it kept my interest and I kept on reading. I had to post my response here first after I read everyone's comments.
During my time as a Christian, I would attend church services as usual and listen to the sermons. I'd just take in whatever was being preached about. I was 100% Christian and listened with Christian ears. Gradually I started to listen with unbiased ears. I listened the way my non-religious friends would have listened if I brought them to my church.
I wanted everyone here to listen to what I had to say with unbiased ears as well. Listen to what I said as if you were your non-religious friend. Wouldn't you want a Hindu, Buddhist, etc. to listen to what you had to say about your religion with unbiased ears?
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Is that so? So your telling me proof that GOD created humanity and everything that is created is by Him, does not dispute the "theory" of evolution that man evolved from the monkey species? I'd have to say you are far wrong on this.
Again, blaming others for your turning away from GOD, Christianity and already this site. Always blaming others it seems. What about you?
Well, lets see. 18 years "dedicated" to the Bible, coming here and let's quote you on the reason (of many):
Well isn't that disgusting. If your so "thankful" you do not believe in GOD, WHO are you thanking? Why are you here then? How on earth are you "seeking truth" as you claim, yet coming here thanking [insert mystery audience] because you do NOT believe in GOD after "dedicated to the bible for 18 years"???
You are dishonest and your blaming the world for your problems. Do you know who truly is biased here? It would be you. Call us harsh or whatever you'd like to excuse yourself from - but GOD is not mocked no matter how hard you try to push Him away.
If I were you, I'd think very hard and deep from now on before you go thanking no one that you no longer believe in GOD after 18 years of dedicating yourself to the Bible.
1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we decieve ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
Romans 6:23 -- For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
Property Of God
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Chad, I thank you from my heart for backing this up, I couldn't have said it ny better, and I'm glad cause you really made my day. God bless you so much brother
Redpill, we are not defensive, but we get upset when someone denies what is real, maybe you didn't know the facts and God judges by the amount of knowledge you have.
Trust me, we all read well and think before writing anything, I want you to care less about Aliens and care more about God, cause really it's all about Him at the end of the day, trust your Bible, it's not a fairytale.
Don't defend something you know very little about, that wouldn't be so wise, right?
the Catholic church has so much wrongs in it, and I want to tell you my family is part Catholic and Orthodox cause everyone in Egypt are either Catholic or Orthodox, and I argue with my family and talk about the facts, not my opinion, not others opinions,
I won't agree with anyone just because they're my friends, born again Christians have no restrictions, on the other hand, Catholics do, trust me, they do, all their traditions and customes and I can go forever.
We simply have a bond, a relationship with God through Jesus Christ, who you should love more than everything, more than aliens who are green:shade:
Redpill, we are not defensive, but we get upset when someone denies what is real, maybe you didn't know the facts and God judges by the amount of knowledge you have.
Trust me, we all read well and think before writing anything, I want you to care less about Aliens and care more about God, cause really it's all about Him at the end of the day, trust your Bible, it's not a fairytale.
Don't defend something you know very little about, that wouldn't be so wise, right?
the Catholic church has so much wrongs in it, and I want to tell you my family is part Catholic and Orthodox cause everyone in Egypt are either Catholic or Orthodox, and I argue with my family and talk about the facts, not my opinion, not others opinions,
I won't agree with anyone just because they're my friends, born again Christians have no restrictions, on the other hand, Catholics do, trust me, they do, all their traditions and customes and I can go forever.
We simply have a bond, a relationship with God through Jesus Christ, who you should love more than everything, more than aliens who are green:shade:
ServantOfYHWH
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I don't 'believe' in them no. But, I'm OPEN to the fact that people could be seeing what they claim, I just don't think they're real UFO's or aliens. I think it's demons trying to fool us and make us think that, just like I believe they disguise themselves as 'ghosts' to mislead people, just like those spiritists think they're receiving word from the people passed on.
"There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown." Genesis 6:4
"There will be signs in sun and moon and stars, and on the earth dismay among nations, in perplexity at the roaring of the sea and the waves" Luke 21:25
'And also after that' does that mean they were or ARE still in the world? It's open for study of course, but I think it could be something along those lines. So, if people think they're seeing aliens, it could be the nephilim? And I know it said they were giants, but the firmament changed after the flood, so they could be the same size, or different to us. Who knows honestly! Soon enough we'll know more though, so only time will tell.
"There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown." Genesis 6:4
"There will be signs in sun and moon and stars, and on the earth dismay among nations, in perplexity at the roaring of the sea and the waves" Luke 21:25
'And also after that' does that mean they were or ARE still in the world? It's open for study of course, but I think it could be something along those lines. So, if people think they're seeing aliens, it could be the nephilim? And I know it said they were giants, but the firmament changed after the flood, so they could be the same size, or different to us. Who knows honestly! Soon enough we'll know more though, so only time will tell.
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Fire4TheLord
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extra-terrestial life = good
but, if scientist do find another planet that can sustain living, and is similar to the earth (atmoshpere, earthly elements, etc), and has living creatures that aren't similar to humans and the other living organisms on our planet, wouldn't that debunk evolution? According to evolution, a single celled organism adapted to its environment and eventually became millons of many celled organisms. If the Organisms are signifacantly different on another planet than Human beings, wouldn't that conclude a divine creater must have created the universe in his own image?
but, if scientist do find another planet that can sustain living, and is similar to the earth (atmoshpere, earthly elements, etc), and has living creatures that aren't similar to humans and the other living organisms on our planet, wouldn't that debunk evolution? According to evolution, a single celled organism adapted to its environment and eventually became millons of many celled organisms. If the Organisms are signifacantly different on another planet than Human beings, wouldn't that conclude a divine creater must have created the universe in his own image?
Ncdataman
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A very unfair comment. Scientists don't need to find life on another planet to prove the existence of evolution. There is enough evidence gathered from astronomy, embryology, geology, homology, fossils (the list goes on) in which all point to the same conclusion: evolution.
I love to see small minded "logical thinkers" use this garbage for an argument for evolution. You know it's still called the theory of evolution right? Not the Law, not the fact, the theory! Ever heard of the missing link? if not look it up, guess what it does not exist. There has been several attempts to fake this very needed piece of proof for evolution. but it's always proven fake. If you had really looked into your biology you would hear of something called improbable complexity, it shows complex functions in simple organisms, we are talking about the most basic of organisms, the same ones scientist say have been here since the beginning of time however these creatures have functions so complex in fact that they could not have occurred on there own by evolution in the amount of time provided by the fossil record. So please look up your information and stop reading someones blog or article and find out for yourself. Start with Lee Strobels case for the creator, then get back to me about your knowledge in science.
I love to see small minded "logical thinkers" use this garbage for an argument for evolution. You know it's still called the theory of evolution right? Not the Law, not the fact, the theory! Ever heard of the missing link? if not look it up, guess what it does not exist. There has been several attempts to fake this very needed piece of proof for evolution. but it's always proven fake. If you had really looked into your biology you would hear of something called improbable complexity, it shows complex functions in simple organisms, we are talking about the most basic of organisms, the same ones scientist say have been here since the beginning of time however these creatures have functions so complex in fact that they could not have occurred on there own by evolution in the amount of time provided by the fossil record. So please look up your information and stop reading someones blog or article and find out for yourself. Start with Lee Strobels case for the creator, then get back to me about your knowledge in science.
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Why would they have to find life on another planet to debunk evolution? What is your view based on exactly?
Of all the scientific and spiritual evidence we have on earth, this is not enough to debunk a "theory"?
Read the sticky threads here
Evidence, Prophecy, Facts - Talk Jesus
Enough said if you ask me. These fulfilled prophecies prove enough that the Bible is in fact the real deal Holy Spirit authored and breathed Word of GOD. Therefore, it proves this fact of human creation right off the bat:
Genesis 1:26-31
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
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Amen Chad
Today on national BBC radio there a was a programme about UFO's. Part of the discussion was whether 'aliens would be sinners and in need of salvation' etc
The whole thing made me so sad...important British men debating the supposed lost souls of aliens..but what about their own lost souls.
As a Christian the only important thing to me is that
CHRIST JESUS CAME INTO THE WORLD TO SAVE SINNERS
(and that means the earth we live on..Praise God)
I do not believe in UFO's or other such phenomena I do believe that the devil misleads and perverts truth.
Lets keep our eyes Heavenward for His return...thats the only thing worth watching the skies for.
Julia
Today on national BBC radio there a was a programme about UFO's. Part of the discussion was whether 'aliens would be sinners and in need of salvation' etc
The whole thing made me so sad...important British men debating the supposed lost souls of aliens..but what about their own lost souls.
As a Christian the only important thing to me is that
CHRIST JESUS CAME INTO THE WORLD TO SAVE SINNERS
(and that means the earth we live on..Praise God)
I do not believe in UFO's or other such phenomena I do believe that the devil misleads and perverts truth.
Lets keep our eyes Heavenward for His return...thats the only thing worth watching the skies for.
Julia
Property Of God
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I think people want to believe in Evolution so bad so that they won't be consumed with thoughts about God, they want their lives to be simpler, when they can do whatever they want and nobody judges them or without it getting too dramatic and problematic, they think they'll become colder and won't be hurt ever again if they know for sure that this world is so random so it could help them sleep at night and think less about their inner scars and wounds.
It's just easier if they live in denial.
God had only one plan of salvation, He only died once, for humans, He didn't even create a plan of salvation for Angels and, Fallen angels in particular, even demons can't be forgiven because it's just not *in the cards* for them, so how about aliens? God can not create a plan of salvation for something He never told anyone about, how would this glorify Him?
It's just easier if they live in denial.
God had only one plan of salvation, He only died once, for humans, He didn't even create a plan of salvation for Angels and, Fallen angels in particular, even demons can't be forgiven because it's just not *in the cards* for them, so how about aliens? God can not create a plan of salvation for something He never told anyone about, how would this glorify Him?
Fire4TheLord
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No, I meant that that would be MORE evidence that proves the existence of God. I believe we (christians) are in spiritual warfare and we could use more evidence. Of course, my question was completely hypothetical...
yea dont ever believe the hype. evolution is the greatest lie ever told and conceived by the devil.
the amount of evidence disproving evolution and supporting a designer/creation (designer would be God) is staggering. there is no chance for evolution. evo is a lied created to justify not following God and for scientist to make more money
before i became i christian. i spent a long time researching truth like this. i dont want to believe in anything that im not 100% sure is true. Christianity isnt BASED on science and history but it is BACKED UP by science and history.
When you research the facts. Jesus really was who he said he was and all evidence points to humans being created 6,000 years ago
i would love to discuss any of the evidence if someone sent me a message if you have any questions
God bless you all - Derek
the amount of evidence disproving evolution and supporting a designer/creation (designer would be God) is staggering. there is no chance for evolution. evo is a lied created to justify not following God and for scientist to make more money
before i became i christian. i spent a long time researching truth like this. i dont want to believe in anything that im not 100% sure is true. Christianity isnt BASED on science and history but it is BACKED UP by science and history.
When you research the facts. Jesus really was who he said he was and all evidence points to humans being created 6,000 years ago
i would love to discuss any of the evidence if someone sent me a message if you have any questions
God bless you all - Derek
Fire4TheLord
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but, what about the ignorant non-believers (not saying that all of them are) who don't believe all the biblical facts that God placed here on Earth. God is omniscient and I'm sure he could have anticipated that his children would doubt his existence...I'm sure he knew that scientist were going to create a false theory of how the universe, and man, was created?
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It is the Lord's will that all should be saved and He makes that clear in His word. Sin has created false theories and unbelief.
Non believers need our love and prayers - that they will seek the Lord.
The devil will tangle things up in their minds and create questioning and doubt. Best not to get involved in those heated debates.
Just stick to your sound Christian truths. Sow seeds of truth in their heart with a spirit of gentleness and love.
Julia
Fire4TheLord
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true...
Galatians 6:7
Do not be deceived , God is not mocked. Whatever a man sows, he shall reap.
