War in Heaven

[Romans 8.28]

Jesus will not come down to rule on earth till after the tribulation.

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Are you saying the following event will occur at the end of the tribulation, and that it is to be on the earth?

Ephesians 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

Revelation 4:2 Jesus will then have His own throne in heaven; will He leave it to come and rule from the earth at the end of the tribulation?

Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Even after this scripture we continue to see Jesus in heaven.

Revelation 11:16. "And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,"

Revelation 19:1 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:

Thanks.

 

[Eric E Stahl]

Romans 8:28

1 Thessalonians 4:17 pre tribulation

Ephesians 1:10 post tribulation all saints will be gathered to Jesus.

<style> <!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face {font-family:Cambria; panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4; mso-font-charset:0; mso-generic-font-family:auto; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:3 0 0 0 1 0;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ascii-font-family:Cambria; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:Cambria; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:Cambria; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} -->*</style>Jesus will come in the New Jerusalem at the end of the tribulation. It will be suspended over the hills of Israel between the earth and the moon in the umbra shadow of a permanent solar eclipse. Jesus will lead His heavenly army to the battle of Armageddon and destroy the army of antichrist. Jesus will then sit on a throne and judge every survivor of the tribulation at the judgment of the sheep and the goats on earth see Matthew 25:31-16 Jesus will go back and rule from the New Jerusalem where He will be the only light on Israel because the sun won't set and neither will the moon withdraw see
Isaiah 60:19-20.

Revelation 11:15-16 see Mid-tribulation post #1 by Eric E Stahl

Revelation 19:1 is in heaven before the marriage of the lamb and church.

 

[Romans 8.28]

Jesus will come in the New Jerusalem at the end of the tribulation.

I have absolutely no idea where you get that the following scripture is post tribulation instead of post millennial.

Revelation 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Revelation 21:10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God.

 

[David777]

Hello Eric.

Eric you stated,

1 Thessalonians 4:17 pre tribulation

This passage has nothing to do with pre-tribulation.

Here is 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have
fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring
with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain
until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.

16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an
archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.

17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds
to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

Paul is telling the Thessalonians that those who are still
alive will not precede those that have died. That is all
these passages are about.

We all meet the Lord together, this is definitely
not pre-tribulation.

 

[Eric E Stahl]

Eric you stated,

1 Thessalonians 4:17 pre tribulation

This passage has nothing to do with pre-tribulation.

Here is 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have
fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring
with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain
until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.

16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an
archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.

17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds
to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

Paul is telling the Thessalonians that those who are still
alive will not precede those that have died. That is all
these passages are about.

We all meet the Lord together, this is definitely
not pre-tribulation.

You asked when I thought the various verses were happening.

I believe 1 Thessalonians 4:17 will take place before the antichrist is

given control in the christian nations by God 2 Thessalonians 2:8-12

because the Holy Spirit in the believers is taken out of the way.

 

[Eric E Stahl]

I have absolutely no idea where you get that the following scripture is post tribulation instead of post millennial.

Revelation 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Revelation 21:10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God.

Isaiah 60:19-20 In the kingdom age the sun and moon will stay over

Israel but give no light to Israel because it is a permanent solar

eclipse.

Jesus will be the light over Israel in the New Jerusalem which is made

from purest gold clear as crystal. The New Jerusalem will be

suspended between the moon and the earth in the umbra shadow of

the moon.

 

[Eric E Stahl]

I have absolutely no idea where you get that the following scripture is post tribulation instead of post millennial.

Revelation 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Revelation 21:10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God.

Rev 21:2 is post millennium when there is no more sea, or curse.

 

[Johnnyv]

Who is in charge? God not Satan. The earth is the Lord's and everything in it. the world and all who live in it. Psalm 24:1
In Rev. 11:15 the Kingdoms of this world are plural, thus obviously not the kingdom of satan. It refers back to Daniel 2 and the vision of the image. In the end the rock destroys the kingdoms of men and sets up an eternal kingdom. The vision of the four beasts in Daniel 7 says the same thing.

 

[Eric E Stahl]

Who is in charge? God not Satan. The earth is the Lord's and everything in it. the world and all who live in it. Psalm 24:1
In Rev. 11:15 the Kingdoms of this world are plural, thus obviously not the kingdom of satan. It refers back to Daniel 2 and the vision of the image. In the end the rock destroys the kingdoms of men and sets up an eternal kingdom. The vision of the four beasts in Daniel 7 says the same thing.

Johnnyv,

When Adam sinned, the kingdom of earth was given to Satan by God. In Revelation 11:15 God takes the Kingdom back. Did you read the first post?

 

[David777]

Hello Eric.

You stated the following,

I believe 1 Thessalonians 4:17 will take place before the antichrist is

given control in the christian nations by God 2 Thessalonians 2:8-12

because the Holy Spirit in the believers is taken out of the way

How do you know that the restrainer is the Holy Spirit?

 

[Eric E Stahl]

You stated the following,

I believe 1 Thessalonians 4:17 will take place before the antichrist is

given control in the christian nations by God 2 Thessalonians 2:8-12

because the Holy Spirit in the believers is taken out of the way

How do you know that the restrainer is the Holy Spirit?

Hi David777,

John 16:7-8 Indicates that the comforter or the Holy Spirit will reprove sin when he comes.

 

[David777]

Hello Eric.

Eric Stahl here is the conversation so far in condensed form,

2 Thessalonians 2:7

For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work;
only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way.

The blue highlighted section is the subject of the conversation.

I asked "how do you know that the restrainer is the Holy Spirit?"

You replied with,

"John 16:8 And when he comes, he will prove the world wrong concerning
sin and righteousness and judgment."

You still have not supplied the Bible evidence to support your opinion
of who the restrainer is Eric. John 16:8 is the work of the Advocate (Holy Spirit).
This is not evidence for your claim Eric.

May I draw your attention to the following passage Eric.

"With regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together
to Him [the rapture]...Let no one in any way deceive you, for it [the rapture] will
not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness [the Antichrist]
is revealed, the son of destruction" (2 Thessalonians 2:1-3).

Do not be deceived, the rapture WILL NOT occur until the antichrist is revealed.

Do not be deceived, the rapture WILL NOT occur until the falling away (apostasy) occurs.

The falling away is not the rapture which some folk think, this verse
explains that the falling away is in fact the falling away from Jesus.
It does not mean departure.

 

[james g]

So will the Holy Spirit be taken up out of the earth?

 

[Eric E Stahl]

So will the Holy Spirit be taken up out of the earth?

James g,

The Holy Spirit will take us to Jesus at the rapture.

He will no longer reprove sin on the earth and it will run wild.

 

[Eric E Stahl]

Eric Stahl here is the conversation so far in condensed form,

2 Thessalonians 2:7

For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work;
only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way.

The blue highlighted section is the subject of the conversation.

I asked "how do you know that the restrainer is the Holy Spirit?"

You replied with,

"John 16:8 And when he comes, he will prove the world wrong concerning
sin and righteousness and judgment."

You still have not supplied the Bible evidence to support your opinion
of who the restrainer is Eric. John 16:8 is the work of the Advocate (Holy Spirit).
This is not evidence for your claim Eric.

May I draw your attention to the following passage Eric.

"With regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together
to Him [the rapture]...Let no one in any way deceive you, for it [the rapture] will
not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness [the Antichrist]
is revealed, the son of destruction" (2 Thessalonians 2:1-3).

Do not be deceived, the rapture WILL NOT occur until the antichrist is revealed.

Do not be deceived, the rapture WILL NOT occur until the falling away (apostasy) occurs.

The falling away is not the rapture which some folk think, this verse
explains that the falling away is in fact the falling away from Jesus.
It does not mean departure.

I agree that the falling away is the apostasy we are seeing in the church today.

Yes the antichrist will be alive and mature and a great speaker before the rapture.

It is the Holy Spirit in the Christians who reproved sin when he came. That is why we Christians are the salt of the earth. We help to preserve the world as salt preserves country ham.

 

[Eric E Stahl]

thank you!

Very Interesting post!

Sorry I didn't respond sooner.