Was Jesus a Jew?

[KerimF]

If you follow Jesus through the gospels, Jesus kept all of the law but did not keep the rabbinical law. That is, He kept the law laid down by God (Himself) but not the law laid down by the priests who always tried to control the people and make a profit off of them.

What you say is very true.

But Judaism is about God's Law which was addressed to the ancient Jews to prepare them for the arrival of Jesus Christ. Such a law, excluding what is related to God, is applied now in all countries around the world including the atheist ones as: don't kill, don't steal. don't commit adultery... etc.

Then Jesus came with God's Love. And 'true love', by definition, cannot be commanded on a human by anyone.
For example, even in the material world, a good woman (not a material one) refuses to marry a man if he is commanded by his father or mother to marry her.

Let us be rational, if someone loves truly whoever he may meet and no matter who he is, as himself. Does he need someone to tell him... don't kill, don't steal, don't commit adultery... etc.? Of course, he doesn't need because true love is beyond all laws, including the one addressed to the ancient Jews to organize them as a well-disciplined people for the arrival of Jesus among them.

In brief, a Jew reminds me God's Law while Jesus is about God's Love,
Love (Heaven) and Law (Earth) can never coexist for the same person at the same time.

 

[B-A-C]

Love (Heaven) and Law (Earth) can never coexist for the same person at the same time.

The Law came from Heaven, God wrote on the tablets Himself. The very finger of God wrote the law.

Exod 31:18; When He had finished speaking with him upon Mount Sinai, He gave Moses the two tablets of the testimony, tablets of stone, written by the finger of God.
Deut 9:10; "The LORD gave me the two tablets of stone written by the finger of God; and on them were all the words which the LORD had spoken with you at the mountain from the midst of the fire on the day of the assembly.

The purpose of the Law is to teach us how to love.

Matt 22:36; "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?"
Matt 22:37; And He said to him, " 'YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.'
Matt 22:38; "This is the great and foremost commandment.
Matt 22:39; "The second is like it, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.'
Matt 22:40; "On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets."

Rom 13:8; Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law.
Rom 13:9; For this, "YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, YOU SHALL NOT MURDER, YOU SHALL NOT STEAL, YOU SHALL NOT COVET," and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF."
Rom 13:10; Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

Basically what Jesus and Paul are saying here is... if you're murdering, stealing from, lying to, or having an affair with their wife... you're not loving them.

 

[KerimF]

Luke 23:4 Then said Pilate to the chief priests and to the people, I find no fault in this man.

John 18:38 Pilate saith unto him, What is truth? And when he had said this, he went out again unto the Jews, and saith unto them, I find in him no fault at all.

John 19:4 Pilate therefore went forth again, and saith unto them, Behold, I bring him forth to you, that ye may know that I find no fault in him.

John 19:6 When the chief priests therefore and officers saw him, they cried out, saying, Crucify him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Take ye him, and crucify him: for I find no fault in him.

Jesus the faultless and sinless Son of God was crucified as the spotless lamb of God.

2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Jesus was crucified because he referred to himself as the King of the Jews.

Joh 19:15 But they cried out, Away with him, away with him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar.

For instance, my reply to Lentz is:
But you may respond and say, as the Honorable Jewish Elders did, Jesus did a big crime against the Jewish teachings and deserved to be crucified as a criminal.
It seems you didn't get well my point when I was talking to Lentz (this happens in best families ).

Of course, Jesus didn't commit any crime, but this didn't prevent the Honorable Jewish Elders of His time seeing Him guilty and asked for His death as a criminal.
You remind me that I forgot to start the thread "Why Jesus Planned or Liked to Die the Way He Did?"

 

[KerimF]

People are the same the world over. It’s just that some individuals are better or worse than others.

Very true, in other words, the good and the bad (and in between) could be found in every family, in every community no matter where they are on the planet Earth.

 

[KerimF]

So you are one who believes the lie,the Jews rule the world.
Own all the banks,the diamond industry,are the power over and behind the world’s politicians. Classic

In the contrary, I discovered how most of the Jewish People (and most of Muslims) were deceived since WW1 till our days.
You may like reading about how and why they were deceived at:
"TROUBLE BREWING IN ISRAEL WITH NEW EXTREMIST ISRAELI GOVERNMENT" post #109

 

[Curtis]

For instance, my reply to Lentz is:
But you may respond and say, as the Honorable Jewish Elders did, Jesus did a big crime against the Jewish teachings and deserved to be crucified as a criminal.
It seems you didn't get well my point when I was talking to Lentz (this happens in best families ).

Of course, Jesus didn't commit any crime, but this didn't prevent the Honorable Jewish Elders of His time seeing Him guilty and asked for His death as a criminal.
You remind me that I forgot to start the thread "Why Jesus Planned or Liked to Die the Way He Did?"

If Jesus had commuted a crime that would mean he sinned, and if a Jesus had sinned he could not become the spotless lamb of God that would take away the sins of this world! Then the whole human race is doomed forever. Your thinking is so off base of the truth of the Gospel it is unbelievable.

 

[Curtis]

What you say is very true.

But Judaism is about God's Law which was addressed to the ancient Jews to prepare them for the arrival of Jesus Christ. Such a law, excluding what is related to God, is applied now in all countries around the world including the atheist ones as: don't kill, don't steal. don't commit adultery... etc.

Then Jesus came with God's Love. And 'true love', by definition, cannot be commanded on a human by anyone.
For example, even in the material world, a good woman (not a material one) refuses to marry a man if he is commanded by his father or mother to marry her.

Let us be rational, if someone loves truly whoever he may meet and no matter who he is, as himself. Does he need someone to tell him... don't kill, don't steal, don't commit adultery... etc.? Of course, he doesn't need because true love is beyond all laws, including the one addressed to the ancient Jews to organize them as a well-disciplined people for the arrival of Jesus among them.

In brief, a Jew reminds me God's Law while Jesus is about God's Love,
Love (Heaven) and Law (Earth) can never coexist for the same person at the same time.

Rom 3:20 For no one can ever be made right with God by doing what the law commands. The law simply shows us how sinful we are. (NLT)

 

[Curtis]

But you may respond and say, as the Honorable Jewish Elders did, Jesus did a big crime against the Jewish teachings and deserved to be crucified as a criminal.

Are you referring to these, "Honorable Jewish Elders" whom Jesus said their father was the Devil?

Joh 8:44 For you are the children of your father the devil, and you love to do the evil things he does. He was a murderer from the beginning. He has always hated the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, it is consistent with his character; for he is a liar and the father of lies.
Joh 8:45 So when I tell the truth, you just naturally don’t believe me!

Everyone who hears the truth that are not of the truth naturally don't believe it.

 

[lentz]

For instance, my reply to Lentz is:
But you may respond and say, as the Honorable Jewish Elders did, Jesus did a big crime against the Jewish teachings and deserved to be crucified as a criminal.
It seems you didn't get well my point when I was talking to Lentz (this happens in best families ).

Of course, Jesus didn't commit any crime, but this didn't prevent the Honorable Jewish Elders of His time seeing Him guilty and asked for His death as a criminal.
You remind me that I forgot to start the thread "Why Jesus Planned or Liked to Die the Way He Did?"

what you are missing,is that Christ was the one who fulfilled the law.
It was those elders who went against Gods commandments that were the criminals (law breakers)
They changed the law to suit their own purpose.
Like some pervert the gospel today

 

[KerimF]

Dear Brother KerimF,
I hope I do not jump around too much for you! Too often it really comes down to almost the entirety of Scripture and not just a few verses to arrive to the starting gate and believe not everything has been covered.

What will help with the concept of Jesus being a Jew, stands easily by the virtue that Scripture for all extensive purposes says so. Yes, Jesus is God, but He is also fully man as well. Notice that He is called Son of God, but also Son of Man. You will find the lineage is one example that shows His Jewishness. Of course God is Eternal, so no lineage is possible or necessary. And Jewishness is really but a point in time from Abraham, who of course was not Jewish!

As far as the Law goes, there are examples where Jesus corrects with right understanding how the people were seeing/using the Law in that day. Some times we forget who the Originator of the Law was but God Himself, and so who but Jesus would know it best!

Bounce: First one must understand who the Law is for. Which can be found in 1 Timothy 1:8-11.
[1Ti 1:8-11 NKJV] But we know that the law [is] good if one uses it lawfully, 9 knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for [the] lawless and insubordinate, for [the] ungodly and for sinners, for [the] unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine, 11 according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God which was committed to my trust.

Bounce: Now take a look at Matthew 7:12 "Therefore, whatever you want men to do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.
As you can see, He has communicated a real basic reasoning that should come to a person who is seeking to follow the Law but uses different words than "an eye for eye or tooth for a tooth", yet it communicates the very same thing. I guess He really personalizes it for the listener and now for us the reader.

I like how the NLT says this: [Mat 5:17-20 NLT] 17 "Don't misunderstand why I have come. I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No, I came to accomplish their purpose. 18 I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not even the smallest detail of God's law will disappear until its purpose is achieved. 19 So if you ignore the least commandment and teach others to do the same, you will be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven. But anyone who obeys God's laws and teaches them will be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven. 20 "But I warn you--unless your righteousness is better than the righteousness of the teachers of religious law and the Pharisees, you will never enter the Kingdom of Heaven!
Too often we see the law without Grace. If and we know that it is, one, the law, comes from God, then it must include grace which in Christ Jesus it does. One must always remember that Jesus came as He Himself said in the above verse, "to accomplish their purpose", and it is not a manly perspective but a Godly one. Remember we know God to be what? Love. Alleluia!

1 John 4:8 NKJV] He who does not love does not know God, for God is love.

Being tempted of a Lawyer, Jesus answered Him thus in Matthew 22:37-40 KJV Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

So, in truth if you want to know about the Law, you go to Jesus to find out about it, who is as I said the Originator of it, you do not attempt to set Him against the very thing He created! It really is trying to bring Him down, which we should never attempt to do with God! \o/

This is why we can go around and around and around when talking about the Law, and when we bring in Jesus, then we must bring in God's Grace to it as well!!! And so the entirety of Scripture becomes our playground for learning, and growing in Him, and not comparing Him against!

I hope I was not too confusing in my explanation. I could take almost forever in analyzing what I wrote above, and take away, and add to it, and still believe I do not have it all covered! Plus, I wind up adding too many smiley faces to what I write because to me it is a Joy to talk about my Jesus! lol

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

Well, I personally can't say Jesus is a Jew, because the Holy Spirit (of Jesus and my Heavenly Father) is in me, and I am not a Jew.

In my life, I am guided solely by Love not by any Law. So, I have no special rituals or prayers to observe. And I don't have sacred/holy things, like the Jewish and Muslim temples and books. The only thing that I take care of and protect, at any price, is my soul. Yes, I can't deny that I am somehow selfish every time I feed my soul with the joy of loving some others unconditionally. And, naturally, I am glad I am mortal since the kingdom I am looking for is not of this world.

 

[B-A-C]

Rom 2:28; For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh.
Rom 2:29; But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

Rom 9:6; But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel;

 

[Curtis]

Well, I personally can't say Jesus is a Jew, because the Holy Spirit (of Jesus and my Heavenly Father) is in me, and I am not a Jew.

Rom 2:28 For you are not a true Jew just because you were born of Jewish parents or because you have gone through the ceremony of circumcision.
Rom 2:29 No, a true Jew is one whose heart is right with God. And true circumcision is not merely obeying the letter of the law; rather, it is a change of heart produced by the Spirit. And a person with a changed heart seeks praise from God, not from people.

Without having faith in Jesus there is no way you will ever please God.

Heb 11:6 And it is impossible to please God without faith. Anyone who wants to come to him must believe that God exists and that he rewards those who sincerely seek him.

Whatever you do that is not of faith is a sin. (Romans 14:23)

 

[KerimF]

Rom 13:3 For the authorities do not strike fear in people who are doing right, but in those who are doing wrong. Would you like to live without fear of the authorities? Do what is right, and they will honor you.
Rom 13:4 The authorities are God’s servants, sent for your good. But if you are doing wrong, of course you should be afraid, for they have the power to punish you. They are God’s servants, sent for the very purpose of punishing those who do what is wrong.

Well, Jesus summarized it:
"Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's."

Indeed, I am ready always to obey any rule imposed on me as long it doesn't contradict my unconditional love towards all others, friends and enemies.

I recall an experience I lived during my 2-year military service about 4 decades ago.
Being an engineer, I did this service as an officer (though of the lowest grade).
Once, I was asked to join a training session on guns. There, I refused to hold one. And this started the following conversation:

They:
But this training is good for you. It helps you defend yourself better in case you are attacked.
Kerim:
Thank you for your care, but I have no enemies.
They:
You may not have enemies, but our country could be attacked by enemies anytime.
Kerim:
Would you please define the word ‘enemies’?
They:
They are the ones who will attack us to impose their will on us.
Kerim:
Sorry, don’t you mean they will do to us as you are doing to me now?

They laughed while they went away from me. Later, I was never asked to join such training.
I did my service as a teacher in applied electronics in a military academy.

 

[KerimF]

When the Word of John 1:1 came into the world as the flesh of John 1:14, he didn't
come as divine flesh, rather, he came as Jewish flesh.

● Rom 8:3 . . God sent His own son in the likeness of sinful flesh

● Heb 7:14 . . It is clear that our Lord descended from Judah.

The "our Lord" in that verse came into the world on track to take David's place as
king of the Jews.

● Luke 1:32 . .The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David

No man can be considered for David's place except they first and foremost be
Judah's paternal offspring.

● Gen 49:10 . The scepter will not depart from Judah, nor the ruler's staff from
between his feet, until he comes to whom it belongs.

The man considered must also be David's paternal offspring.

● Ps 89:35-36 . . Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David.
His seed shall endure forever, and his throne as the sun before me.

● Ps 132:11 . .The Lord has sworn in truth unto David; and He will not turn from it:
"Of the fruit of your body will I set upon your throne"

The New Testament verifies that Jesus satisfies the paternal requirement.

● Acts 2:29-30 . . Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch
David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulcher is with us unto this day.
Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him,
that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on
his throne.

● Rom 1:1-3 . . Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David
according to the flesh

The Greek word for "seed" is a mite ambiguous because it can refer to spiritual
progeny as well as to biological progeny; but in David's case; seed refers to
biological progeny because his was 1) the fruit of his body and 2) of his loins
according to the flesh.
_

I wonder what prevented Jesus to say I am a Jew clearly.
Instead, He used to say: You are told... Verily I say unto you...

But I admit that Jesus didn't mind being called 'The King of the Jews'. After all, He is the Creator of the entire universe including the Jews.

 

[KerimF]

First you say jews have law to obey,then say Gods love is above all laws.
The whole world,Jews and gentiles alike come only one way,through Jesus Christ.
Once a Jew accepts Christ he has the same liberty in Christ as you do.
Accept Christ,dead to the law

Yes, every human is supposed to be free in opposing his robotic nature to live God's Love with others on earth as it is in Heaven.
But if a human loses his soul for some reasons (see Jesus' parables), he will have no choice but to be guided by his natural instincts on which all man-made laws are based (including God's Law which was addressed to the ancient Jews when humans on earth could be seen as kids of humanity).
Love and Law cannot coexist in/for the same person at the same time.

 

[KerimF]

The Law came from Heaven, God wrote on the tablets Himself. The very finger of God wrote the law.

Exod 31:18; When He had finished speaking with him upon Mount Sinai, He gave Moses the two tablets of the testimony, tablets of stone, written by the finger of God.
Deut 9:10; "The LORD gave me the two tablets of stone written by the finger of God; and on them were all the words which the LORD had spoken with you at the mountain from the midst of the fire on the day of the assembly.

The purpose of the Law is to teach us how to love.

Matt 22:36; "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?"
Matt 22:37; And He said to him, " 'YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.'
Matt 22:38; "This is the great and foremost commandment.
Matt 22:39; "The second is like it, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.'
Matt 22:40; "On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets."

Rom 13:8; Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law.
Rom 13:9; For this, "YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, YOU SHALL NOT MURDER, YOU SHALL NOT STEAL, YOU SHALL NOT COVET," and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF."
Rom 13:10; Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

Basically what Jesus and Paul are saying here is... if you're murdering, stealing from, lying to, or having an affair with their wife... you're not loving them.

Sorry, I hear you saying that you love God and others because you are commanded to do it (as in the army).
If this is the case, you are totally right, 'your' love and law walk hand by hand.

 

[Curtis]

wonder what prevented Jesus to say I am a Jew clearly.

What purposed would it serve for Jesus to say he was Jewish when every one already knew that he was born of a Jewish mother and his stepfather was a descendant of kind David?

 

[KerimF]

If Jesus had commuted a crime that would mean he sinned, and if a Jesus had sinned he could not become the spotless lamb of God that would take away the sins of this world! Then the whole human race is doomed forever. Your thinking is so off base of the truth of the Gospel it is unbelievable.

How and when I said that Jesus did any crime. Is my English that bad!!!

 

[KerimF]

Are you referring to these, "Honorable Jewish Elders" whom Jesus said their father was the Devil?

Joh 8:44 For you are the children of your father the devil, and you love to do the evil things he does. He was a murderer from the beginning. He has always hated the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, it is consistent with his character; for he is a liar and the father of lies.
Joh 8:45 So when I tell the truth, you just naturally don’t believe me!

Everyone who hears the truth that are not of the truth naturally don't believe it.

I meant the Jewish rulers at His time (I called them Elders since the actual rulers were Romans); those who paid Judas to help them capture Him.

 

[KerimF]

what you are missing,is that Christ was the one who fulfilled the law.
It was those elders who went against Gods commandments that were the criminals (law breakers)
They changed the law to suit their own purpose.
Like some pervert the gospel today

Yes, Jesus fulfilled the law... for good.
And He updated it from being a material law (related to human's flesh and its instincts) to a spiritual love (related to the spiritual soul).
It is as simple as this; no long list of rules anymore
Making such a list became the duty of the powerful rich families only who have to rule their country, if not the world.
.