Wasn't the New Testament written hundreds of years...

[farout]

Yes, I used to be a believer, or atleast tried to be, and i studied the bible as well as the many arguments for and against christianity, God, etc. And I'm trying to be as honest as I can, i would never dismiss or ignore an argument presented at me, and I point out the problems i have with specific arguments or comments to see if those problems can be addressed.

Now it's really up to you, is Jesus Christ who He said He was, or a rotten liar and boy conceived from fornication ? Your belief determines your eternal destination. If I am wrong I lost nothing, but if you wrong ?????? Oh how I ask you to carefully consider your answer.

 

[Last Things]

Well, sure, i mean, there are documents like the Q document and Markian authorship, etc. But Someone had to write it, and im fine with assuming, within the context of the discussion, that the gospels were written atleast in a large part by the apostles, or atleast someone who was inspired by God/dictated to by God or angels.

I see the Gospels as the teachings of the apostles, which might be from them directly by writing, or what they heard from them and wrote down, or what they heard or read from others and wrote down. I think it came together through a community usually. This might be considered difficult for someone, but back then authorship was about ideas, not who wrote it on paper.

 

[Last Things]

Now it's really up to you, is Jesus Christ who He said He was, or a rotten liar and boy conceived from fornication ? Your belief determines your eternal destination. If I am wrong I lost nothing, but if you wrong ?????? Oh how I ask you to carefully consider your answer.

Why is it that people make hell threats toward the end of the discussion when words have run out? I sometimes wonder if it reflects this own faith. That is - they believe in God out of fear, when someone does not share their fear, they realize it is possible not to have that fear, and realize that is the only thing keeping their faith. But they still fear they might be wrong and if they don't believe, they will go to hell. Someone's lack of fear scares them. They can only respond by what they know- fear.

"If I am wrong I lost nothing, but if you wrong ??????" seems to be an argument from fear. What if I told you that under the White House is a ton of gold and if you don't believe that, you will go to hell. I say, well, if I am wrong, I lost nothing, but if you are wrong? Would that compel you? I wonder why you think that argument would work on him?

 

[Asanima]

Now it's really up to you, is Jesus Christ who He said He was, or a rotten liar and boy conceived from fornication ? Your belief determines your eternal destination. If I am wrong I lost nothing, but if you wrong ?????? Oh how I ask you to carefully consider your answer.

Certainly, but dont you agree that it is evidence and/or reasoned arguments that convinces you to one belief over another? Isnt that what intellectual honesty, prevails?

And Ive never considered the "What if youre wrong" as a very convincing or good argument to make. Even if we ignore the fact that If you are wrong, and the Muslims are right, youll lose everything too, youre resorting to punishment in order to convince someone to follow God. Someone who does that, wouldnt believe and accept God because they love him, they would accept and believe God because they fear him and the punishment that entails.

 

[Asanima]

I see the Gospels as the teachings of the apostles, which might be from them directly by writing, or what they heard from them and wrote down, or what they heard or read from others and wrote down. I think it came together through a community usually. This might be considered difficult for someone, but back then authorship was about ideas, not who wrote it on paper.

My position is similar to yours, in that i believe the evidence most likely demonstrates that the gospels werent simply a single hand account by a single writer writing down a single eyewitness testimony, but rather something that was compiled by someone who was collecting many accounts from many sources.

 

[farout]

Certainly, but dont you agree that it is evidence and/or reasoned arguments that convinces you to one belief over another? Isnt that what intellectual honesty, prevails?

And Ive never considered the "What if youre wrong" as a very convincing or good argument to make. Even if we ignore the fact that If you are wrong, and the Muslims are right, youll lose everything too, youre resorting to punishment in order to convince someone to follow God. Someone who does that, wouldnt believe and accept God because they love him, they would accept and believe God because they fear him and the punishment that entails.

No, I a stating what the Bible says, Life is very brief, and facts are facts. No one can be forced to become follower. There s more said about eternal hell than most think. Peace

 

[farout]

I see the Gospels as the teachings of the apostles, which might be from them directly by writing, or what they heard from them and wrote down, or what they heard or read from others and wrote down. I think it came together through a community usually. This might be considered difficult for someone, but back then authorship was about ideas, not who wrote it on paper.

How would you give Scriptural to back your opnion?

 

[farout]

My position is similar to yours, in that i believe the evidence most likely demonstrates that the gospels werent simply a single hand account by a single writer writing down a single eyewitness testimony, but rather something that was compiled by someone who was collecting many accounts from many sources.

But is that what The Gospels say? My opinion men little, the best truth is what the Bible says, have you looked into
what the Bible says? Luke gives great detail.

 

[Last Things]

How would you give Scriptural to back your opnion?

Scriptural is an adjective, so I am assuming you mean scriptural evidence. Evidence would be seen in the end of the Gospel of John in which it describes a problem that would have occurred after John.

I don't believe we should understand scripture only according to scripture. When you do that, you make premises. You demand understanding scripture according to our culture, our way of thinking, our way of understanding the past, etc.

 

[Chad]

I don't believe we should understand scripture only according to scripture. When you do that, you make premises. You demand understanding scripture according to our culture, our way of thinking, our way of understanding the past, etc.

What? Our culture and our way of thinking is how one is supposed to understand Scripture? Our understanding? Nonsense. Where do you derive such things? Gods Word is infallible and relevant today and far more wiser compared to our understanding.

 

[Last Things]

But is that what The Gospels say? My opinion men little, the best truth is what the Bible says, have you looked into
what the Bible says? Luke gives great detail.

Here is the problem: We take a phrase and interpret it according to our culture. That is, our culture interprets scripture in a particular way. People then demand scriptural evidence that their cultural interpretation is not what the bible intended. This is impossible since people back then were not aware of nor had the ability to address a future culture. So a person can only respond by giving historical evidence that this is the way people thought. But an unreasonable premise is asserted - no no no - tell me from the bible that my 21st Century western culture is not the right way to approach 1st Century Judeo-Greek culture.

 

[farout]

Here is the problem: We take a phrase and interpret it according to our culture. That is, our culture interprets scripture in a particular way. People then demand scriptural evidence that their cultural interpretation is not what the bible intended. This is impossible since people back then were not aware of nor had the ability to address a future culture. So a person can only respond by giving historical evidence that this is the way people thought. But an unreasonable premise is asserted - no no no - tell me from the bible that my 21st Century western culture is not the right way to approach 1st Century Judeo-Greek culture.

Do you know how to do word and subject studies? Do you have a Exhaustive Concordance There are those for every version of the Bible. This tool would help answer your questions and by doing the work yourself the answers will be your own. What do you think? Are the questions you have worth your own effort?

 

[Asanima]

No, I a stating what the Bible says, Life is very brief, and facts are facts. No one can be forced to become follower. There s more said about eternal hell than most think. Peace

Not forced, but convinced? Surely theres a difference between being forced to do or believe, and being convinced that something is right?

 

[Last Things]

Do you know how to do word and subject studies? Do you have a Exhaustive Concordance There are those for every version of the Bible. This tool would help answer your questions and by doing the work yourself the answers will be your own. What do you think? Are the questions you have worth your own effort?

Word and subject studies tell us what we think the bible is saying according to how we look and approach scripture. and it is generally done as part of a spiritual exercise.

It does not give insight into how people perceived the world and how they think.

 

[RJ]

Do you know how to do word and subject studies? Do you have a Exhaustive Concordance There are those for every version of the Bible. This tool would help answer your questions and by doing the work yourself the answers will be your own. What do you think? Are the questions you have worth your own effort?

God has given us an imagination, common sense and the power to reason. Time and cultural influences are meaningless. Jesus was in the begining and Hebrews 13:8. Cultures change but God does not and we are to Matthew 4:4
We are to use what God has given us and using different Bibles and a Exhaustive Concordance has helped me immensely! I think making this effort to learn and know more about God, is one of the fruits that we must bare as a Christian!

 

[Chad]

@Last Things

Overlooking my post deliberately or mere coincidence?

 

[Last Things]

What? Our culture and our way of thinking is how one is supposed to understand Scripture? Our understanding? Nonsense. Where do you derive such things? Gods Word is infallible and relevant today and far more wiser compared to our understanding.

I missed your post, sorry about that. I was actually arguing the opposite of that position. It should be understood according to their culture, their ways of thinking, etc. The problem is precisely that people do not recognize they may think and understand things quite differently.

 

[PrayerWarr1or]

I missed your post, sorry about that. I was actually arguing the opposite of that position. It should be understood according to their culture, their ways of thinking, etc. The problem is precisely that people do not recognize they may think and understand things quite differently.

Semantics aside, God has made it perfectly clear in the following verse: Titus 2:11-12 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men,instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age

One way or another we all make the choice to choose God or choose the enemy, regardless of your geographic location or the cultures adopted there that may vary one's perception of everything.

 

[Last Things]

Semantics aside, God has made it perfectly clear in the following verse: Titus 2:11-12 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men,instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age

One way or another we all make the choice to choose God or choose the enemy, regardless of your geographic location or the cultures adopted there that may vary one's perception of everything.

I am not sure what this has to do with my posts here. I have never said one does not need to choose God.

 

[PrayerWarr1or]

I am not sure what this has to do with my posts here. I have never said one does not need to choose God.

I'm sorry for being vague, let me be more specific. The verse I posted about simply means to me that I don't think research from biblical scholars or whoever you were referring to is the ultimate decider of how I perceive scripture. And while those studies give us an alternate perspective on what the words mean, the Holy Spirit is what I gave ultimate credit for for giving me wisdom when I read scripture and hear other people's research on their meaning.

Word and subject studies tell us what we think the bible is saying according to how we look and approach scripture. and it is generally done as part of a spiritual exercise.

Your quote above is exactly what I am talking about. The whole act of reading the Bible to me is indeed spiritual exercise, but me personally, I feel as though how I look and approach scripture again has a lot more to do with the Holy Spirit.