Water Baptism

[RJ]

Yet both John the baptist and Jesus's disciples were baptizing many many people (we don't know exactly how many, but likely thousands or even tens of thousands ).
Why would they do this while Jesus was still alive?

If I might be allowed a quick commentary:

• John was instructed to water baptise long before was Jesus, so God initiated this under the Old Law and Covenant.
• There is not a lot written to explain how this related to sacrifices and the Law but, both were now occuring at the same time and ,again, I see no indication that water baptism was to replace the old law of sacrifices and the "Day of Atonement".
• Since Jesus had not died on the cross and resurrected, the replacement New Covenant and salvation by grace had not been ushered in yet. Jesus was under the law when he was water baptised and of course would have done so.
• John was a "Voice in the Wilderness" he was to "Show the Way". His purpose was to introduce the coming Messiah.
• John bapised saying this: “I now baptize you in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit for the remission of your sins” Matthew 28:18-19
• They were baptised for the forgiveness of sins, much like the "Day of Atonement" was for the remission of sins.
• Remission means the cancelation of dept.
• Jesus washes us with his blood not water and our remission of sins was by his death on the cross, it is permanent and forever! There are many people in the world that were water baptised but were not saved at the same time; just like there are many people in any church that calls themselves Christians but are not.
• Jesus saves not water.

 

[whearn1]

Yet both John the baptist and Jesus's disciples were baptizing many many people (we don't know exactly how many, but likely thousands or even tens of thousands ).
Why would they do this while Jesus was still alive?

Hello BAC, John the baptist was baptizing people in preparation for the coming kingdom, his was a baptism of repentance Matt 1: 1-2 In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea, 2 .And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. The message was repent and turn to God. Acts 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. This was done in preparation for the ushering in of the church age.

 

[B-A-C]

John the baptist was baptizing people in preparation for the coming kingdom, his was a baptism of repentance Matt 1:1-2 In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea, 2 .And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. The message was repent and turn to God

The question was really rhetorical to those saying not to get baptized, but thank you, you covered it pretty good!

 

[whearn1]

Is it OK if God saves us through water, by faith in Jesus, as our response to our faith ? 1 Peter 3:20-21 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. 21. The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: Is it possible we are not fully aware of all God can do with water. God has a lot to say about water. John 3:5, John 5:4, John 19:34, Acts 10:47, Eph 5:26, Hebrews 10:22, 1 John 5:5-8 ,,, 8. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

 

[RJ]

Is it OK if God saves us through water, by faith in Jesus, as our response to our faith ? 1 Peter 3:20-21 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. 21. The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: Is it possible we are not fully aware of all God can do with water. God has a lot to say about water. John 3:5, John 5:4, John 19:34, Acts 10:47, Eph 5:26, Hebrews 10:22, 1 John 5:5-8 ,,, 8. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

• (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God, The verse says it all: it is "not the putting away of the filth of the flesh" (the washing with water) but the answer is a good conscience toward God that saves ( by belief and faith).
• You can definetly be saved while performing the act of water baptism but it is not a requirement! Being saved from showing a good conscience toward God can happen anywhere, water is not required.

 

[whearn1]

Dear RJ In the ninth chapter of acts when Paul ( Saul ) was led to meet Ananias, after the scales fell from his eyes, even though he had not eaten in three days, before he did anything else " he arose and was baptized". How do you suppose Saul knew he needed to be baptized ? The scripture makes no mention of Ananias giving him that instruction, but tells us he he ( Ananias) talked to him about Jesus.
The same is true in acts the eighth chapter when Phillip join himself to the Ethiopian eunuch's chariot, the bible says he ( Phillip ) taught him Jesus, and the eunuch's response was " See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? In 1 Peter 3:21 the meaning is This baptism is unlike the ceremonial washing of old, that it has nothing to do with the outer man or cleansing of the flesh, but it is the commanded response God gave us when his word has penetrated our conscience or pricked our hearts. Nowhere does the bible say our response should to utter or repeat some prayer or " invite Jesus into your heart".

 

[RJ]

Dear RJ In the ninth chapter of acts when Paul ( Saul ) was led to meet Ananias, after the scales fell from his eyes, even though he had not eaten in three days, before he did anything else " he arose and was baptized". How do you suppose Saul knew he needed to be baptized ? The scripture makes no mention of Ananias giving him that instruction, but tells us he he ( Ananias) talked to him about Jesus.
The same is true in acts the eighth chapter when Phillip join himself to the Ethiopian eunuch's chariot, the bible says he ( Phillip ) taught him Jesus, and the eunuch's response was " See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? In 1 Peter 3:21 the meaning is This baptism is unlike the ceremonial washing of old, that it has nothing to do with the outer man or cleansing of the flesh, but it is the commanded response God gave us when his word has penetrated our conscience or pricked our hearts. Nowhere does the bible say our response should to utter or repeat some prayer or " invite Jesus into your heart".

Hi Whearn 1,

• With 1 Peter 3:21, I see where you are coming from and welcome your opinion. It may very well be true how you present it. With regard to your feeling, I can only imagine how strong people in Peter's day must have felt about water baptism because it was so common and encourage then as a means to identifying themselves with Christ or as "The Way" as they put it in those days.
• But I can't change my mind nor yours and respectively so.
• For me, I have looked at the entirety of the Bible and I see another picture, a picture of God giving us a New Covenant that he said replaced or abolished the Old, Hebrews 8:7-8 and Hebrews 8:13 .
• To acomplish or satisfy the Old, required man's work via things like the "10 commandments" and the "Day of Atonement".
• Under the New, God gave us the Law of Grace and to accomplish it doesn't require any works from man, in fact it is forbidden only God's free gift be applied: Ephesians 2:8.
• So in the New Covenant, God has taken man completely out of the equation; he had to in order to make it a more perfect and lasting covenant.
• I have explained my answer as best I can; atleast, I hope we can both agree that Jesus Christ is Lord and Savior!

 

[RJ]

The question was really rhetorical to those saying not to get baptized, but thank you, you covered it pretty good!

• Respectfully, so my stance is clear I ,for one, am not saying not to be baptized, I think it is a beautifull thing.
• What I am saying is, though one can certainly be "Born Again" during water baptism, water baptism is not necessary for salvation.
• I have previously given scripture and commentary that support my stance.
• Have a blessed day!!!

 

[whearn1]

Hi Whearn 1,

• With 1 Peter 3:21, I see where you are coming from and welcome your opinion. It may very well be true how you present it. With regard to your feeling, I can only imagine how strong people in Peter's day must have felt about water baptism because it was so common and encourage then as a means to identifying themselves with Christ or as "The Way" as they put it in those days.
• But I can't change my mind nor yours and respectively so.
• For me, I have looked at the entirety of the Bible and I see another picture, a picture of God giving us a New Covenant that he said replaced or abolished the Old, Hebrews 8:7-8 and Hebrews 8:13 .
• To acomplish or satisfy the Old, required man's work via things like the "10 commandments" and the "Day of Atonement".
• Under the New, God gave us the Law of Grace and to accomplish it doesn't require any works from man, in fact it is forbidden only God's free gift be applied: Ephesians 2:8.
• So in the New Covenant, God has taken man completely out of the equation; he had to in order to make it a more perfect and lasting covenant.
• I have explained my answer as best I can; atleast, I hope we can both agree that Jesus Christ is Lord and Savior!

RJ
I think you have explained your position beautifully, and Jesus is truly Lord and Savior, Creator, and King of Kings. I'd Like for you to reconsider your statement "

• So in the New Covenant, God has taken man completely out of the equation; he had to in order to make it a more perfect and lasting covenant." God has not and will not take man out of the equation, to do so would make robots out of men and defeat the purpose of His plan of salvation.The free gift of salvation is offered to, but not forced on us, it still has to be accepted by us. God would be unjust sending anyone to hell, if men had no say or choice in whether or not to accept His gift.
• Though we are under a new covenant of Grace, it is not unilateral, but bilateral, just as the old was. God offers, we accept or reject His offer. Amos 3:3 Can two walk together, except they be agreed?The old covenant had circumcision as an identifier of those who accepted God's covenant, the new covenant has baptism as an identifier of those who accept God's offer of Grace. Not as a work of man, ( I have yet to see a man baptize himself ) but as a way of agreeing with God's terms for reconciliation.
• You mean God has terms for this agreement ? With a price as high as the blood of his only begotten son, yes there are terms. The very first term is we must believe Jesus is who he says he is, but it takes more than just a mental assent or acknowledgement. James 2:19 " Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble".Faith is not some dormant, inactive, hidden attribute, that goes unseen by others. When you read Hebrews the eleventh chapter faith is on display in each person,by their activity. If I truly believe my home is on fire, i"m not going to sit quietly watching TV, but I'm going to get up and get out, moving to a place of safety. In the same way when we accept the word that this building (body) of ours is heading for hell fire, we want to move to a place of safety, accepting God's terms ( Jesus the only way ) we respond as instructed.
• I pray this dialog causes you to see our God as sovereign, in whatever he ask of us. I know you do, but sometimes just talking about it helps us get refreshed in our spirit, and inspires us to press harder in gaining knowledge of our Lord and Savior. Amen ?

 

[RJ]

RJ
I think you have explained your position beautifully, and Jesus is truly Lord and Savior, Creator, and King of Kings. I'd Like for you to reconsider your statement "

• No I can't go against my convictions.
• I appreciate and accept your stance and I will always encourage others how "Water Baptism" is a wonderful way to express outwardly that you are a Christian but not absolutely required for salvation.
• May God continue to bless you with increased undertanding and, I look forward to our next subject to discuss; it is a pleasure to know you!

 

[whearn1]

RJ
I think you have explained your position beautifully, and Jesus is truly Lord and Savior, Creator, and King of Kings. I'd Like for you to reconsider your statement "

• No I can't go against my convictions.
• I appreciate and accept your stance and I will always encourage others how "Water Baptism" is a wonderful way to express outwardly that you are a Christian but not absolutely required for salvation.
• May God continue to bless you with increased undertanding and, I look forward to our next subject to discuss; it is a pleasure to know you!

Thank you,
its been great discussing this subject with you, and i can appreciate you wanting to stand on your convictions. I hope we will have occasion and opportunity to engage and encourage each other in the future. May God the father of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ build you up in all spiritual knowledge and add daily to your wisdom and understanding, until we see HIM face to face. God Bless you.

 

[RJ]

Thank you,
its been great discussing this subject with you, and i can appreciate you wanting to stand on your convictions. I hope we will have occasion and opportunity to engage and encourage each other in the future. May God the father of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ build you up in all spiritual knowledge and add daily to your wisdom and understanding, until we see HIM face to face. God Bless you.

• until we see HIM face to face ...1 Corinthians 13:12..."then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known."