What is sin to a believer?

[regibassman57]

@Lacawar,


I'm answering this because it's an honest question and not based in the debates posted prior. I belive the sin of Adam and the covenant sins of Israel.

 

[Lacawar]

I agree but confusion comes in when both are mixed together without understanding.
So be specific about which is being referring to.
For the sake of edificaton.

 

[Lacawar]

We have to understand Both seperately 1st!
Then we can get understanding!

 

[regibassman57]

@Lacawar,

The sin of Adam, Adam sinned one time (in his covenant with God) and sin came upon all men (Rom. 5:12). God told Adam not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Adam did and he sinned.

Scripture teaches us, “until the law “SIN WAS” (past tense) in the world but sin was not imputed where there was no law (Rom. 5:13). Meaning God did not recognize or account their sin unto them because there was no law telling them that they’ve sinned.

This was the purpose of the law entering that sin might be recognized and understood in Israel’s eyes just as God was in God’s eyes (Rom. 5:20, Gal. 3:19).

There are promises that God would forgive, heal, to take away sin; etc. (Isa. 33:24, Dan. 9:24; Joh. 1:29).

So once Jesus came and died He took sin away once for all time.

Lacawar, you should go back and read some of the posts I’ve written. I’m sure you’ve seen some because I’ve chatted with you on the subject I believe.

 

[regibassman57]

@Lacawar,
This is a promise for the New Israel, which is the Church of Christ.

Deu 30:6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou may live.

The question is what will God circumcise the hearts of Israel/man from?

Col 2:11 In whom also you are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in “putting off the body” of the “SINS” “of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ”:

Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; “neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh”:

Rom 2:29 But “he is a Jew”, which is one “inwardly”; and “circumcision is that of the heart”, “in the spirit,” and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Sin has been “cut out” “circumcised from man’s heart. This applies to “ALL” New Covenant believers. If a person’s heart has not been circumcised from sin, they are not of the Church of Jesus Christ. The only way the Spirit of God can reside in believers is if sin has been removed. This is why your body is the Temple of the Holy Ghost; it has been cleansed from sin (Rev. 1:5); from the enmity of what separated man from God. The penalty of sin did not separate man from God, “sin” did (Isa. 59:2). When sin was taken away, the promise of God was fulfilled in us (Eze. 39:29). God will no longer hide His face from those that believe (Heb. 13:5).

I hope this is what you were asking? It's covers both...

 

[bibleguy]

Which sin is everyone referring to?
The universal sin of Adam
Or
The breaking of the Law?

Hi there! I often have the "breaking of the law of Moses" concept of "sin" in mind.

However, the instances of "sin" in Genesis are cases which, of course, predate Mosaic law.

Thus, the pre-Mosaic-law instances of "sin" must be understood in some other sense (i.e., breaking of God's laws available to the people of that pre-Moses timeframe).

Unfortunately, we do not have a clear picture of the full extent of the nature of God's laws available to the pre-Moses peoples.

I would love to learn more about this, but it's not in the Bible (or anywhere else, as far as I know).

For example, Abraham obeyed God's TORAHS (plural, Ge. 26:5), but it's not clear what all those laws are.

blessings....

 

[Lacawar]

I understand Romans.
Romans 5:14
[14]Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

What did Adam lose when HE died?

What place will sin and death have in immortality to the believer?

1 Corinthians 15:51-56
[51]Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
[52]In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
[53]For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
[54]So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
[55]O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
[56]The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

By the way Was Adam immortal?

 

[Lacawar]

All praises to AHAYAH BA HASHAM YASHAYAH WA RAACH!

 

[regibassman57]

@Lacawar,
When Adam sinned, he lost several things.

Your Question:
What did Adam lose when HE died?

The first thing Adam lost was his character; the likeness of God’s character, the Fruit of the Spirit. This is why when we were “re-deemed” we were brought back into the Eternal spiritual Covenant that was set in place from the beginning.

Secondly, Adam lost the spiritual relationship he had with God. Sin caused a spiritual separation which prevented God from residing continually in man; in the oneness they had together in Righteousness. When God left Adam, Satan filled his heart and became his god. This is how man became blinded from the spiritual things and spiritual understandings of God. Satan is the prince of the power of this world, the spirit that works in the children of disobedience (Eph. 2:2; 2Cor. 4:4) Satan rules man through emotions in this world; this is what he uses to lord over people. God has given man peace; anything contrary to peace is a lie; it of Satan. So Adam lost continual peace (Joh. 14:27). This is why God tells us not to let our hearts be troubled; which means, agitated.

Third, Adam lost Eternal Life and died. Adam also lost most of his worldly provision he had in the Garden of Eden when he was put out (Gen. 3:16-22).

The joy for all men, believer or unbeliever, is though the ground was cursed because of Adam’s sin in his generation, with all the worldly riches that God created for man; God found righteousness in Noah and reinstated everything HE created for Adam back unto Noah (Gen. 9).

Fouthly, Adam lost health and everything that goes with it. I already spoke about death.

These are some things, but I’m sure there’s more that I haven’t recognized or don’t remember at this time.

Your Question: What place will sin and death have in immortality to the believer?
For Believers there is no sin or death. The wages of sin “was” death until Jesus crucified “sin” as well as the penalty (Rom. 8:2, 3; Acts 13:39).

What was the only thing that the Law of Moses could not do? The Law of Moses was able and did pay the penalty for sin by the blood of bulls and goats, but in those sacrifices, they could not take away sins (Heb. 10:1-4, 11, 12, 14; Joh. 1:29) By Jesus paying the full price for sin, because all sins of the world were place upon Him, death has and will not have any rule over believers. As you have said in 1Corinthians 15: "all shall not sleep." Everyone will not experience physical death, but all will experience spiritual death.

Death and Hell will be cast into the lake of fire with every person that does not believe in Jesus Christ or believe His word (Joh. 5:24; Rev. 20:14, 18).

I’ll send you another post on 1 Corinthians 15:51-56. I don’t want to put too much on one post.

 

[Lacawar]

Those things are true! But
Again, was Adam immortal?

And
What did Adam lose when HE died?
You're missing the Key!

 

[regibassman57]

@Lacawar,
Adam was not immortal; this is why God removed him from the Garden in order that he would not become immortal by eating of the tree of Life and live forever.

Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, “lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”:

Adam was of the flesh as in the dirt of the ground. Dust we are and unto dust we shall return. The scriptures below explains everything your asking. I'm not sure what I’m missing; you can tell me…

Gen 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shall thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it was thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shall thou return.

Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

1Co 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

1Co 15:48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

1Co 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

 

[regibassman57]

@Lacawar,
I forgot to add this verse to the answers above:

Gen 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

 

[JesusIs4Me]

The question is, “what is sin to a believer?”

Based on the principle of sin, a person can only sin if they are in the flesh. We as believers are not “in” the flesh, but in the spirit if the Spirit of GOD dwells in us (Romans 8:9).

When we were “in” the flesh (past tense), the influence of sin, which was by the law, did work in or bodies to bring forth fruit/character unto death. But now being delivered from the law, being dead wherein we were held, we should serve in the newness of spirit and not in oldness of the letter (Romans 7:5).

The letter (the Law or Moses) told man they sinned and then caused a separation between GOD and man, which caused condemnation for that sin. In order to be pardon of that sin, they needed a carnal sacrifice; one that could not make man perfect from sin.

Because we are no longer in the flesh, and under/justified by the law or a carnal commandment; sin is meaningless to a believer. Sin was a fleshly act under a fleshly covenant.

Heb 7:16 Who (Jesus) is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life

Believers are in the spirit of GOD where there is only the power of an endless life and void of sin.

If the root of that believer is Christ, then that believer can only bring forth the fruit of righteousness. The root of Christ is not a part of the nature of sin. If the believer whose root is Christ, does an immoral act contrary to what Jesus teaches, that believer has committed an unfruitful work.

An unfruitful believer will not develop the character of Christ, which is the fruit of the spirit, and if this is the case, that believer will eventually wither away.

Joh 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can you, except you abide in me.

Joh 15:5 I am the vine, you are the branches: He that abides in me, and I in him, the same brings forth much fruit: for without me you can do nothing.

Joh 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

An unbeliever cannot wither because they are already dead, but when or if the unbeliever comes to Christ, he or she is made alive. However, if that converted believer in Christ makes a choice to do the things that are contrary to righteousness without repenting from their actions, they are making a choice not to abide in Christ and will eventually become weeds or tares. In the day that Jesus will sends His angel to sever the wicked from among the just, those tares or unfruitful believers will be gathered out of GOD’s Kingdom and have their part with the unbelievers.

Mat 13:49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,

Mat 13:50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Mat 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

Mat 13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Luke 12:40-49 testify to the same words plus more to give context that saved believers not abiding in Him, will be left behind at the pre great trib rapture event, but they are still saved because that reference still cites them as His servants whereby they are getting stripes per the measure of knowledge they had to repent by and yet did not, and some will receive fewer stripes per lack of knowledge, but they shall be received as vessels unto dishonor in His House for not departing from iniquity. 2 Timothy 2:18-21

No one can lose their salvation, but not every saved believer will be found abiding in Him at the time the Bridegroom shall come. Think of it as excommunication from the feast of fellowship in Heaven. 1 Corinthians 5:4-5

The prodigal son would have lost his chance to be of the first fruit of the resurrection, but he is still son. While the door to the Marriage Supper is still open, may every saved believer trust Jesus Christ in being their Good Shepherd to help them to see the iniquities they are in to depart from them before the Bridegroom comes as we can only live this reconciled relationship with God thru Jesus Christ for He is the power & help for abiding in Him as His disciples to bear fruit & be joyful..

 

[regibassman57]

@JesusIs4Me,

You are making my point… I said people do not understand the difference between “unfruitful works and sin.

You had me read a person can be left behind in the rapture. They will receive beatings for not repenting from iniquity.

You’re saying a man cannot lose their salvation.

You’ve said nothing about what Jesus said. Jesus said, He saved you from sin, He cancelled your sin, He blotted your sin out, He made you free from sin, put sin away, He’s taken away sin, He made us dead to sin, etc. I’m not going on with all Christ has done.

You didn’t find any scriptures to show Jesus took away the penalty of sin but He did not take away sin. If you still sin, this means Jesus “DID NOT TAKE AWAY YOUR SINS,” you still sin. These below scriptures do not apply to you.

Heb 7:26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;

You are not separate from sinners, you are the sinner because you sin (Joh. 8:34).

 

[bibleguy]

Hello, the comment was made: " If you still sin, this means Jesus “DID NOT TAKE AWAY YOUR SINS,” you still sin. "

My response: Not true.

If "Jesus took away my sins" means I no longer will be at risk of suffering the consequences of having sinned in a state of unforgiveness, then it's still possible for us (who have been forgiven) to sin, even though Jesus has already taken away our sins in this sense.

Why? Because occasionally sinning in a state of forgiveness is DIFFERENT than occasionally sinning in a state of unforgiveness.

HOW is it different? Because our sins have been taken away (when in a state of forgiveness), but our sins have NOT been taken away (when in a state of unforgiveness).

So, regibassman57 is arguing for a VERY SPECIFIC interpretation of the phrase "take away your sins" when, in fact, alternative interpretations of that same phrase are available, and when in fact, we have other Biblical considerations which disconfirm that particular very specific interpretation which he favors (despite those disconfirming Biblical considerations).

Just wanted to throw that out....because that's what is going on here, as it pertains to this "take away sins" issue he persistently discusses.


*********Think about it! What's the point in praying "forgive us our sins" (Lk. 11:4) if we don't sin anymore?!

Obviously, Lk. 11:4 still applies.

And so does Jas. 4:17.

Regi even confesses he sometimes does what is wrong (Jas. 4:17). He just doesn't want to admit this means he sometimes sins (Jas. 4:17).

blessings...

 

[regibassman57]

@bibleguy,
I do not need carnal philosophy, show me scripture.

Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things comes the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

 

[bibleguy]

@bibleguy,
I do not need carnal philosophy, show me scripture.

Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things comes the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

Dude! Not all critical thinking skills are "carnal philosophy" !!

Isaac Newton was a Bible student...and he developed the foundations of calculus.

Are you going to oppose philosophical mathematical arguments grounded in calculus too? (please don't get that irrational!)

You're just inventing a bogus excuse for casting away the most basic of logical inference principles: MODUS PONENS.

If you seriously oppose modus ponens, then EVERYTHING you say will be quickly destroyed.

For example: Do you AGREE with this reasoning or not:

1. If it's raining, then there are probably some clouds in the sky.
2. It's raining.
3. There are probably some clouds in the sky (from 1 and 2).

If you AGREE, then you ACCEPT modus ponens.

If you disagree, then you are utterly irrational and beyond help or hope.

So, do you ACCEPT or REJECT modus ponens?

 

[regibassman57]

@bibleguy,
I have no problem with wisdom that is credible, but you are still mentally and spiritually under/justifying yourself by the Law of Moses; I do not trust your information. The reason I’m continually chatting with you, is I like to hear many different sides of beliefs. I’ve done it with Mormons, Jehovah Witness, Black Muslims, and Baptists, Faith Movement, Pentecostal and now you. You are the only belief that primarily holds to the Old Covenant Torah Law. I think it’s interesting. But if you don’t believe what Jesus has fully done, which is more than forgiving sins, I see you as wise in this world; and you have great wisdom, but it's not the wisdom of Jesus Christ.

1Co 1:20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? (God is not talking about Isaac Newton)

1Co 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

1Co 1:22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:

1Co 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumbling block, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

The Jews, as a whole, did not believe what Jesus came to finish before and after the work of sin was finished. What we are discussing is nothing new. And the opposition of our belief is the norm. As someone said, there is one judge. I agree.

 

[regibassman57]

What is a believer actually saying about the blood of Jesus Christ when they say they sin?

1. They do not believe Jesus atoned to take away all their sins forever.
2. Jesus' blood cleanses and forgives sins no different than the blood of bulls and goats.
3. The scapegoat and Jesus accomplished the same results even until the next sin.
4. Jesus' blood like animal blood is only sufficient until the next time we sin.
5. Jesus' blood is no different than the blood of bulls and goats pertaining to sin.
6. Jesus' blood like the blood of the scapegoat only went as far as the wilderness.
7. Believers confession of sins, to Jesus, accomplished the same as the Mosaic law.
8. God did not remember forgiven sins under the of old covenant neither will He remember forgiven sins under the new covenant.

What does scripture teach about Jesus and animal blood concerning sin?

Hebrews 10:11
And every priest "stand daily" ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can "never take away sins": (Animal Sacrifices)

John 1:29
The next day John sees Jesus coming unto him, and said, Behold the Lamb of God, which "take away" the sin of the world.

Hebrews 10:12
But this man (Jesus), after he had offered "one sacrifice for sins" "forever,"sat down on the right hand of God;

Hebrews 10:4
For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

1 John 3:5
And you know that Jesus was manifested to "take away" our sins; and in him is no sin.

Hebrews 10:10
By the which will we are sanctified (from sin) through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

What is the difference between the blood of Jesus Christ and the blood of bulls and goats?

Hebrews 9:12
Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood Jesus entered in once into the holy place, having obtained "eternal redemption" for us.

What did Jesus obtain Eternal Redemption from?

 

[Dave M]

What is a believer actually saying about the blood of Jesus Christ when they say they sin?

1. They do not believe Jesus atoned to take away all their sins forever.
2. Jesus' blood cleanses and forgives sins no different than the blood of bulls and goats.
3. The scapegoat and Jesus accomplished the same results even until the next sin.
4. Jesus' blood like animal blood is only sufficient until the next time we sin.
5. Jesus' blood is no different than the blood of bulls and goats pertaining to sin.
6. Jesus' blood like the blood of the scapegoat only went as far as the wilderness.
7. Believers confession of sins, to Jesus, accomplished the same as the Mosaic law.
8. God did not remember forgiven sins under the of old covenant neither will He remember forgiven sins under the new covenant.

What does scripture teach about Jesus and animal blood concerning sin?

Hebrews 10:11
And every priest "stand daily" ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can "never take away sins": (Animal Sacrifices)

John 1:29
The next day John sees Jesus coming unto him, and said, Behold the Lamb of God, which "take away" the sin of the world.

Hebrews 10:12
But this man (Jesus), after he had offered "one sacrifice for sins" "forever,"sat down on the right hand of God;

Hebrews 10:4
For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

1 John 3:5
And you know that Jesus was manifested to "take away" our sins; and in him is no sin.

Hebrews 10:10
By the which will we are sanctified (from sin) through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

What is the difference between the blood of Jesus Christ and the blood of bulls and goats?

Hebrews 9:12
Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood Jesus entered in once into the holy place, having obtained "eternal redemption" for us.

What did Jesus obtain Eternal Redemption from?

you really have to learn what it means to practice sin as a lifestyle and to stumble in sin you are very very wrong in your thinking that you say you do not sin hopefully you dont sin as a habbit that is what John is talking about here is a great video to explain it take the time a listen to the truth my freind