What to expect in hell

[KingJ]

Hi all

I am very interested in your interpretation of scripture on hell / eternal lake of fire.

I think a poll will show this. Feel free to explain why you believe as you do.

I mention pets as they speak to a more humane living condition. Many unrepentant sinners love pets and treat them well. It would be extra torturous if pets were not in hell.

There will be no judging or debating here, each entitled to their own belief on an unknown future event.

I will ask mods to remove any post mocking a belief.

__________________________

I select ''Eternal torment - limited suffering, not such a bad place''.

For this reason:

Scripture says God is good Psalm 136:1, the definition of 'love' 1 John 4:7, righteous in all His ways Psalm 145:17, light with no darkness in Him at all 1 John 1:5, Impartial Acts 10:34, a just judge who does not pervert justice Job 34:12, rewards each according to their deeds Rom 2:6.

Scripture also teaches us that many righteous are barely saved 1 Pet 4:18, meaning there are many unrighteous barely not saved. I am not implying God is a fool that would send someone to hell if they would one-day desire true repentance of sin. I just feel it is important for us to grasp that there are levels of sinners. Just as there will be levels and rewards among the saints.

I believe Hell will be a place a good person would create. I say this because in Gen 3:22 we read God explaining that humans now know what is good and evil. Exactly as He and the angels know. Very important fact to consider. God has not got a code of ethics separate to us / something we cannot make sense of. When David says God is good in Psalm 136:1, I believe he meant it. When Jesus says 'only' God is truly good in Mark 10:18, I believe He meant it.

As such, I believe hell will be a place a good person approves of and one better then the Geneva convention (what the 'good' unsaved people of the world approve of). The Geneva convention started when the WW2 allies needed to separate and punish those Germans that were guilty of the greatest crimes against humanity. So, I would propose a good person will agree with the Geneva convention stipulations for those in hell, a Christian should do better and God...well since He is on the absolute side of perfection and love as only He is truly good Mark 10:18, even better. Many will propose that if God does something evil, we can't call Him out on it as He is ''God'', but this is not true. Abraham calls God out on the destruction of Sodom in Gen 18. God explains Himself to Abraham and he approves. We see this with Moses and the Hebrews worshipping the golden calf too in Exo 32.

God mentions four things about hell that I feel deserve explaining for much needed context. Before I start with them, I want you to consider how God mentioned only a few things to Adam and Eve on what awaited them after their sin. Gen 3 mentions, 1. Pain in childbirth, 2. Husband will rule over wife, 3. Cursed ground, 4. Dust to dust / no eternal life on earth. But what God did not mention was: 1. Nice fruit, 2. Beautiful beaches, 3. Having the ability to create tools to plough the field, 4. Create medicines and painkillers to help with childbirth, etc etc. Earth would and could be a very nice place if ''only'' the people on it were not evil. So why does God not mention all the good things about Earth and the life that awaits them in Gen 3? I am going to propose that He did not need to as Adam and Eve 'knew' it was a 'given' as they 'knew' God is good. We need to consider the same when using only a few verses as the A-Z explanation of eternal hell.

The four most impactful scriptural statements on hell to consider 1. Weeping and gnashing of teeth, 2. Darkness, 3. Eternal torment, 4. Fire.

1. Luke 13:28 says people in hell weep and gnash their teeth because they look up and see the saints and Jesus. They weep because they are cast out of heaven. This is a suffering linked to separation, not fire. I believe this is a very important fact to grasp.

2. In John 3:19 we see that Jesus says people love the darkness because their deeds are evil. Proposing that hell is not a place where the lights are permanently off. Darkness is a metaphor for a place where evil takes place. This makes sense as those in hell will be unrepentant sinners.

3. Eternal Torment. It makes sense to me that a good God gives true free will. ''Accept me, come be with me. Reject me, go be somewhere else''. God keeps the evil alive for all eternity as not doing so would be evil. 'No free will' is evil. Just ask any unlucky lady forced into an arranged marriage. As you are surrounded by unrepentant sinners and have fire, it will be a place of torment when compared to heaven.

4. Fire in hell I believe is badly mistaught.

We know from the story of the rich man speaking to Abraham, that he was able to have a conversation and asked for a drop of water on his tongue Luke 16. If you are on fire, will you ask for a drop of water or have a rational conversation with someone?

Scripture teaches us that there ''has'' to be a punishment for sin. God has set this in place as an absolute rule. Christians have the blood of Jesus covering them from all their sins, current and future. Those in hell, don't. As such, I firmly believe that fire is God's chosen method of punishment. Example: On year fifty in hell, you decide to stab your neighbor in the leg. A fire of sort for X amount of time will be on you. As evil continues forever among those that are in hell, so too does 'fire'.

 

[complete]

Hello there,@KingJ,

The poll did not have an answer that I could subscribe to, for I believe that 'Hell' is the place of the dead. There is no consciousness in death, so Hell (or the grave) is not something I shall ever be conscious of. I have the hope of resurrection assured me in Christ Jesus: and If you had asked me what my expectation concerning resurrection is, then I would have shouted:- 'GLORY'. For in God's eyes, though I die, I am yet living, in Christ Jesus His Beloved Son: and when He appears in glory, then I, along with all the members of His Body, will appear with Him there.

Praise God!

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[B-A-C]

It's difficult to create a poll that encompasses everyone theology!

I'm not to sure about the pets portion. Also, I believe Hell/Hades is a temporary place.
But that the Lake of Fire is a permanent place, that Hades and those in it will be cast into.

 

[KingJ]

Hello there,@KingJ,

The poll did not have an answer that I could subscribe to, for I believe that 'Hell' is the place of the dead. There is no consciousness in death, so Hell (or the grave) is not something I shall ever be conscious of. I have the hope of resurrection assured me in Christ Jesus: and If you had asked me what my expectation concerning resurrection is, then I would have shouted:- 'GLORY'. For in God's eyes, though I die, I am yet living, in Christ Jesus His Beloved Son: and when He appears in glory, then I, along with all the members of His Body, will appear with Him there.

Praise God!

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Interesting. I suppose it is like a spin off of annihilationism. Just that the 'dead' don't wake up to a judgement day?

 

[MedicBravo]

What's with this "no pets" thing?
Animals were made for their own purposes. There was no Pet Jesus. They don't know the concept of "sin", being lost in it, nor being saved. There's no sadness in Heaven so any lost pet won't be mourned from a mortal, flawed humanistic POV.
My inference is from "Dante's Inferno". It was written with heavy biblical influence. Suicides are eternally stuck in the Forest of Souls in one of the lowest levels of Hell. If "Inferno" is even remotely correct then those sinners who reject God deserve it.

 

[KingJ]

What's with this "no pets" thing? Animals were made for their own purposes.

Pets are given to mental patients to help them recover. A pet brings a lot of peace and value to an individual. Pets don't judge us.

If a home is pet friendly, it implies it is a nice home. No pets implies an extra torturous environment.

Many believe and teach all pets go to heaven. I believe pets will make their way back to their owners, heaven or hell, unless of course they were mistreated.

Pets were considered with the Geneva convention for example.

Article 53 of Geneva Convention IV prohibits the destruction by the occupying power of private and public properties, except in cases of absolute military necessity. This provision could provide minimum protection to certain animals when considered to be items of private or public property.

 

[MedicBravo]

Pets are given to mental patients to help them recover. A pet brings a lot of peace and value to an individual. Pets don't judge us.

If a home is pet friendly, it implies it is a nice home. No pets implies an extra torturous environment.

Many believe and teach all pets go to heaven. I believe pets will make their way back to their owners, heaven or hell, unless of course they were mistreated.

Pets were considered with the Geneva convention for example.

Article 53 of Geneva Convention IV prohibits the destruction by the occupying power of private and public properties, except in cases of absolute military necessity. This provision could provide minimum protection to certain animals when considered to be items of private or public property.

That's subjective. Pets DO judge people even their owners. You can't put humanistic traits on a domesticated animal. It's instincts are still intact. All it cares about:
Where is it getting it's next meal.
Where is shelter?
What opposite sex animal of that species is it going go have sex with and not necessarily for procreation.
If those three are not met then "affection" from "owners" is ignored regardless of the animal.
Many things can provide therapy and recovery but again, no tears in heaven. No sadness. No depression. There will be a new world with God and the high inference is that pets aren't going to be there. They serve no purpose there. Earthly attachments.

 

[Beetow]

Through me; the way to the eternal city.
Through me; the way to eternal sadness.
Through me; the way to lost people.

Justice moved my supreme maker:
I was shaped by divine power,
By highest wisdom, and by primal love.

Before me, nothing was created
That is not eternal: and eternally I endure.
Abandon all hope, you that enter here.
The Divine Comedy, Inferno: canto 3, v.1-9, by Dante Alighieri

Dante's poetic epic is called a comedy not because it's humorous, rather, because it
has a happy ending as opposed to a tragedy; at least for Dante anyway. The souls he
and Virgil pass along the way through the Inferno portion of Dante's odyssey will never,
nor anon, have a happy ending; hence the sign above the entrance: "Abandon all hope,
you that enter here."

Webster's defines "despair' as: to no longer have any hope or belief that a situation will
improve or change. Well; down in the Inferno section of Dante's concept, despair is a
way of life. It's likely not much different in the real inferno.

When people first arrive, no doubt they start asking around to find out how long they
have to stay there. It must be very devastating to encounter folk who've been
languishing in the fiery region of the netherworld since practically the dawn of Man.
_

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Hell = Eternal separation from God and eternal unity with your idol. Most people fail to understand that Adam and Eve were being cast out of Eden as an act of MERCY, not punishment, because if they ate the tree of life as well, they would be living forever in Satan's dominion, hence eternal separation from God in a "living hell".

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

What's with this "no pets" thing?
Animals were made for their own purposes. There was no Pet Jesus. They don't know the concept of "sin", being lost in it, nor being saved. There's no sadness in Heaven so any lost pet won't be mourned from a mortal, flawed humanistic POV.
My inference is from "Dante's Inferno". It was written with heavy biblical influence. Suicides are eternally stuck in the Forest of Souls in one of the lowest levels of Hell. If "Inferno" is even remotely correct then those sinners who reject God deserve it.

To be honest, the biggest controversy is not about hell, but about heaven. "Christians go to heaven" is a myth, all mentions of "kingdom of heaven" is talking about the millennial kingdom here on EARTH. Even Yeshua himself didn't go straight to heaven, he was down in the grave for two days, rose on the third, lingered for another 40 days and then ascended into heaven. It is taught in Paul's letters that when we die, we go to the GRAVE waiting to be resurrected, and only then will we be reunited with Yeshua.

 

[MedicBravo]

Through me; the way to the eternal city.
Through me; the way to eternal sadness.
Through me; the way to lost people.

Justice moved my supreme maker:
I was shaped by divine power,
By highest wisdom, and by primal love.

Before me, nothing was created
That is not eternal: and eternally I endure.
Abandon all hope, you that enter here.
The Divine Comedy, Inferno: canto 3, v.1-9, by Dante Alighieri

Dante's poetic epic is called a comedy not because it's humorous, rather, because it
has a happy ending as opposed to a tragedy; at least for Dante anyway. The souls he
and Virgil pass along the way through the Inferno portion of Dante's odyssey will never,
nor anon, have a happy ending; hence the sign above the entrance: "Abandon all hope,
you that enter here."

Webster's defines "despair' as: to no longer have any hope or belief that a situation will
improve or change. Well; down in the Inferno section of Dante's concept, despair is a
way of life. It's likely not much different in the real inferno.

When people first arrive, no doubt they start asking around to find out how long they
have to stay there. It must be very devastating to encounter folk who've been
languishing in the fiery region of the netherworld since practically the dawn of Man.
_

Good to see someone else knows of the Divine Comedy.

 

[Beetow]

Famed rock guitarist Eddie Van Halen passed away in October of 2020. He was a
Roman Catholic. I was one myself for 24 years, so I can say from personal
experience, that it's not easy to get into Heaven via that version of Christianity.

Well; if perchance Eddie failed to make the cut (not saying he didn't; only saying "if
perchance") then he will never again be allowed to even so much as see a guitar let
alone pick one up with his hands.

Can you imagine a talented, pioneering musician like Eddie never again allowed to
do the one thing in life that he loved the most? I mean never again like as in
permanently.

Hell is bad enough for ordinary folk; it must be doubly miserable for creative
people: the poets, the painters, the sculptors, the architects, the fashion designers,
the authors, the choreographers, the gourmet cooks, the engineers, the scientific
geniuses, the explorers, et al.

* According to Luke 16:19-31, people in the netherworld worry about their
surviving relatives . Well; Eddie's ex wife Valerie Bertinelli was raised a Roman
Catholic too. I've no doubt that if perchance Eddie is down there, he's wishing there
were some way to contact Vallerie and let her know where he is lest she follow him
to right where he is.

Valerie loves to cook. Well; if perchance Eddie's ex ends up down there; she'll
have access to enough heat for cooking, but of course no ingredients to work with.
_

 

[Butch5]

I don't believe there is a place in scripture that is designated by the English word hell. The modern concept is found nowhere in Scripture. I believe the wicked will be destroyed. As, @complete stated, there is no consciousness in Hades, the grave. Solomon said the dead know nothing.

5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

The Holy Bible: King James Version, Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version. (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2009), Ec 9:5.

David, being a prophet said,

Praise the LORD, O my soul.
2 While I live will I praise the LORD:
I will sing praises unto my God while I have any being.
3 Put not your trust in princes,
Nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.
4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth;
In that very day his thoughts perish.


The Holy Bible: King James Version, Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version. (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2009), Ps 146:1–4.

Man's thoughts perish the day he dies. Thus, he is not conscious in the grave. This is based on an understanding of Genesis 2:7. God formed man from the dust of the ground. Thus, man consists of the elements of the earth. God then breathed out of Himself and into man, His breath or spirit of life. When these two combined the man "became" a living soul. As such a soul consists of two components, the man and the breath of God. When God retrieves His breath, the man dies and returns to the dust. We are told in Scripture that it is the breath of God that gives man the ability to understand, thus when God retrieves His breath, man no longer has the ability to understand.

7 I said to myself, ‘Age should speak,
and length of years should make wisdom known.’
8 But it is a spirit in people,
the breath of the Almighty,
that makes them understand.


Biblical Studies Press, The NET Bible, Second Edition. (Denmark: Thomas Nelson, 2019), Job 32:7–8.

Here Job tells us that the spirit in man is the breath of the Almighty. It's this breath that gives man the ability to understand.

Without God's breath, man does not function. When God retrieves that breath, the components of the soul have separated, thus the soul no longer exists. Consider, the example of water. two molecules of Hydrogen and one of oxygen. When these are combined, they form water, if we remove one of these components, we no longer have water. Since the soul ceases to exist it cannot suffer eternally. Its only hope is resurrection. As Paul said of the Corinthians who had died in Christ, if there is no resurrection they had already perished. Scripture tells us that all will be resurrected. Some to life and some to a second death. The wicked will be raised, punished, and cast into the lake of fire. This is the "second" death. They die bodily as second time.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

I don't believe there is a place in scripture that is designated by the English word hell. The modern concept is found nowhere in Scripture. I believe the wicked will be destroyed. As, @complete stated, there is no consciousness in Hades, the grave. Solomon said the dead know nothing.

5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

The Holy Bible: King James Version, Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version. (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2009), Ec 9:5.

David, being a prophet said,

Praise the LORD, O my soul.
2 While I live will I praise the LORD:
I will sing praises unto my God while I have any being.
3 Put not your trust in princes,
Nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.
4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth;
In that very day his thoughts perish.


The Holy Bible: King James Version, Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version. (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2009), Ps 146:1–4.

Man's thoughts perish the day he dies. Thus, he is not conscious in the grave. This is based on an understanding of Genesis 2:7. God formed man from the dust of the ground. Thus, man consists of the elements of the earth. God then breathed out of Himself and into man, His breath or spirit of life. When these two combined the man "became" a living soul. As such a soul consists of two components, the man and the breath of God. When God retrieves His breath, the man dies and returns to the dust. We are told in Scripture that it is the breath of God that gives man the ability to understand, thus when God retrieves His breath, man no longer has the ability to understand.

7 I said to myself, ‘Age should speak,
and length of years should make wisdom known.’
8 But it is a spirit in people,
the breath of the Almighty,
that makes them understand.


Biblical Studies Press, The NET Bible, Second Edition. (Denmark: Thomas Nelson, 2019), Job 32:7–8.

Here Job tells us that the spirit in man is the breath of the Almighty. It's this breath that gives man the ability to understand.

Without God's breath, man does not function. When God retrieves that breath, the components of the soul have separated, thus the soul no longer exists. Consider, the example of water. two molecules of Hydrogen and one of oxygen. When these are combined, they form water, if we remove one of these components, we no longer have water. Since the soul ceases to exist it cannot suffer eternally. Its only hope is resurrection. As Paul said of the Corinthians who had died in Christ, if there is no resurrection they had already perished. Scripture tells us that all will be resurrected. Some to life and some to a second death. The wicked will be raised, punished, and cast into the lake of fire. This is the "second" death. They die bodily as second time.

See, "saints go to heaven, ain'ts go to hell" is a common cultural misconception. Heaven and hell are actually referring to the Lake of Fire and New Jerusalem, but nobody goes their immediately or directly, because the millennial kingdom will come first before that - "thy kingdom come, thy will be done."

 

[complete]

I don't believe there is a place in scripture that is designated by the English word hell. The modern concept is found nowhere in Scripture. I believe the wicked will be destroyed. As, @complete stated, there is no consciousness in Hades, the grave. Solomon said the dead know nothing.

5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

The Holy Bible: King James Version, Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version. (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2009), Ec 9:5.

David, being a prophet said,

Praise the LORD, O my soul.
2 While I live will I praise the LORD:
I will sing praises unto my God while I have any being.
3 Put not your trust in princes,
Nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.
4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth;
In that very day his thoughts perish.


The Holy Bible: King James Version, Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version. (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2009), Ps 146:1–4.

Man's thoughts perish the day he dies. Thus, he is not conscious in the grave. This is based on an understanding of Genesis 2:7. God formed man from the dust of the ground. Thus, man consists of the elements of the earth. God then breathed out of Himself and into man, His breath or spirit of life. When these two combined the man "became" a living soul. As such a soul consists of two components, the man and the breath of God. When God retrieves His breath, the man dies and returns to the dust. We are told in Scripture that it is the breath of God that gives man the ability to understand, thus when God retrieves His breath, man no longer has the ability to understand.

7 I said to myself, ‘Age should speak,
and length of years should make wisdom known.’
8 But it is a spirit in people,
the breath of the Almighty,
that makes them understand.


Biblical Studies Press, The NET Bible, Second Edition. (Denmark: Thomas Nelson, 2019), Job 32:7–8.

Here Job tells us that the spirit in man is the breath of the Almighty. It's this breath that gives man the ability to understand.

Without God's breath, man does not function. When God retrieves that breath, the components of the soul have separated, thus the soul no longer exists. Consider, the example of water. two molecules of Hydrogen and one of oxygen. When these are combined, they form water, if we remove one of these components, we no longer have water. Since the soul ceases to exist it cannot suffer eternally. Its only hope is resurrection. As Paul said of the Corinthians who had died in Christ, if there is no resurrection they had already perished. Scripture tells us that all will be resurrected. Some to life and some to a second death. The wicked will be raised, punished, and cast into the lake of fire. This is the "second" death. They die bodily as second time.

Ecclesiastes 9:5
Psalm 146:1-4
Genesis 2:7
Job 32:7-8
1 Corinthians 15:16-20

Hello @Butch5,

I thank God for your full response. It's confirmatory references cannot be disputed, nor the use to which you have put them.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Beetow]

Creeping up the blind side,
shinning up the wall
Stealing through the dark of night

Climbing through a window,
stepping to the floor
Checking to the left and the right

Picking up the pieces,
putting them away
Something doesn't feel quite right

Help me someone,
let me out of here
Then out of the dark was suddenly heard:
Welcome to the Home by the Sea

Coming out the woodwork,
through the open door
Pushing from above and below

Shadows without substance,
in the shape of men
Round and down and sideways they go

Adrift without direction,
eyes that hold despair
Then as one they sign and they moan

Help us someone,
let us out of here
Living here so long undisturbed

Dreaming of the time we were free
So many years ago
Before the time when we first heard
Welcome to the Home by the Sea

Sit down, sit down
As we relive our lives in what we tell you

Images of sorrow,
pictures of delight
Things that go to make up a life

Endless days of summer
longer nights of gloom
Waiting for the morning light

Scenes of unimportance
like photos in a frame
Things that go to make up a life

Help us someone,
let us out of here
Living here so long undisturbed

Dreaming of the time we were free
So many years ago
Before the time when we first heard
Welcome to the Home by the Sea

Sit down, sit down
As we relive our lives
in what we tell you
Let us relive our lives in what we tell you

Sit down sit down
Cause you won't get away
So with us you will stay
For the rest of your days.

So sit down
As we relive our lives
in what we tell you
Let us relive our lives
in what we tell you.
Home By The Sea, Genesis 1983; Phil Collins, Tony Banks, & Mike Rutherford

The lyrics of that song are useful for depicting how one of the few thing that some
people have to do down in the netherworld to help pass the time is tell each other
about their previous lives; sort of like a group of old guys meeting together day
after day in the park for games of speed chess. There is, of course, nothing to tell
about their lives down there since the colloquialism "get a life" is a non sequitur in
that place. Nobody has a life; nor any hope of getting one.
_

 

[complete]

'For the living know that they shall die:
but the dead know not any thing,
neither have they any more a reward;
for the memory of them is forgotten.
Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished;
neither have they any more a portion for ever
in any thing that is done under the sun.'
(Ecc 9:5-6)

Hello @Beetow,

What you say in your post (reply#16) presumes that there is consciousness in death, doesn't it? Yet we are told that there is no consciousness in death.

Ecclesiastes 9:5
Psalm 146:1-4
Genesis 2:7
Job 32:7-8
1 Corinthians 15:16-20

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Victor VanHeerden]

Hi all

I am very interested in your interpretation of scripture on hell / eternal lake of fire.

I think a poll will show this. Feel free to explain why you believe as you do.

I mention pets as they speak to a more humane living condition. Many unrepentant sinners love pets and treat them well. It would be extra torturous if pets were not in hell.

There will be no judging or debating here, each entitled to their own belief on an unknown future event.

I will ask mods to remove any post mocking a belief.

__________________________

I select ''Eternal torment - limited suffering, not such a bad place''.

For this reason:

Scripture says God is good Psalm 136:1, the definition of 'love' 1 John 4:7, righteous in all His ways Psalm 145:17, light with no darkness in Him at all 1 John 1:5, Impartial Acts 10:34, a just judge who does not pervert justice Job 34:12, rewards each according to their deeds Rom 2:6.

Scripture also teaches us that many righteous are barely saved 1 Pet 4:18, meaning there are many unrighteous barely not saved. I am no implying God is a fool that would send someone to hell if they would one-day desire true repentance of sin. I just feel it is important for us to grasp that there are levels of sinners. Just as there will be levels and rewards among the saints.

I believe Hell will be a place a good person would create. I say this because in Gen 3:22 we read God explaining that humans now know what is good and evil. Exactly as He and the angels know. Very important fact to consider. God has not got a code of ethics separate to us / something we cannot make sense of. When David says God is good in Psalm 136:1, I believe he meant it. When Jesus says 'only' God is truly good in Mark 10:18, I believe He meant it.

As such, I believe hell will be a place a good person approves of and one better then the Geneva convention (what the 'good' unsaved people of the world approve of). The Geneva convention started when the WW2 allies needed to separate and punish those Germans that were guilty of the greatest crimes against humanity. So, I would propose a good person will agree with the Geneva convention stipulations for those in hell, a Christian should do better and God...well since He is on the absolute side of perfection and love as only He is truly good Mark 10:18, even better. Many will propose that if God does something evil, we can't call Him out on it as He is ''God'', but this is not true. Abraham calls God out on the destruction of Sodom in Gen 18. God explains Himself to Abraham and he approves. We see this with Moses and the Hebrews worshipping the golden calf too in Exo 32.

God mentions four things about hell that I feel deserve explaining for much needed context. Before I start with them, I want you to consider how God mentioned only a few things to Adam and Eve on what awaited them after their sin. Gen 3 mentions, 1. Pain in childbirth, 2. Husband will rule over wife, 3. Cursed ground, 4. Dust to dust / no eternal life on earth. But what God did not mention was: 1. Nice fruit, 2. Beautiful beaches, 3. Having the ability to create tools to plough the field, 4. Create medicines and painkillers to help with childbirth, etc etc. Earth would and could be a very nice place if ''only'' the people on it were not evil. So why does God not mention all the good things about Earth and the life that awaits them in Gen 3? I am going to propose that He did not need to as Adam and Eve 'knew' it was a 'given' as they 'knew' God is good. We need to consider the same when using only a few verses as the A-Z explanation of eternal hell.

The four most impactful scriptural statements on hell to consider 1. Weeping and gnashing of teeth, 2. Darkness, 3. Eternal torment, 4. Fire.

1. Luke 13:28 says people in hell weep and gnash their teeth because they look up and see the saints and Jesus. They weep because they are cast out of heaven. This is a suffering linked to separation, not fire. I believe this is a very important fact to grasp.

2. In John 3:19 we see that Jesus says people love the darkness because their deeds are evil. Proposing that hell is not a place where the lights are permanently off. Darkness is a metaphor for a place where evil takes place. This makes sense as those in hell will be unrepentant sinners.

3. Eternal Torment. It makes sense to me that a good God gives true free will. ''Accept me, come be with me. Reject me, go be somewhere else''. God keeps the evil alive for all eternity as not doing so would be evil. 'No free will' is evil. Just ask any unlucky lady forced into an arranged marriage. As you are surrounded by unrepentant sinners and have fire, it will be a place of torment when compared to heaven.

4. Fire in hell I believe is badly mistaught.

We know from the story of the rich man speaking to Abraham, that he was able to have a conversation and asked for a drop of water on his tongue Luke 16. If you are on fire, will you ask for a drop of water or have a rational conversation with someone?

Scripture teaches us that there ''has'' to be a punishment for sin. God has set this in place as an absolute rule. Christians have the blood of Jesus covering them from all their sins, current and future. Those in hell, don't. As such, I firmly believe that fire is God's chosen method of punishment. Example: On year fifty in hell, you decide to stab your neighbor in the leg. A fire of sort for X amount of time will be on you. As evil continues forever among those that are in hell, so too does 'fire'.

Hell is the opposite of heaven. Biblical hell that is. Otherwise there would be no choice given. Hell is a place originally created for the incaseration and punishment of Satan and all fallen angels. Unbelievers end up there as an after thought. It was not created for them. Therefore whatever was prepared for demons will be metted out to humans. New age doctrines attempt to make hell much more civil.

 

[B-A-C]

For the living know that they shall die:
but the dead know not any thing,
neither have they any more a reward;
for the memory of them is forgotten.
Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished;
neither have they any more a portion for ever
in any thing that is done under the sun.'
(Ecc 9:5-6)

Hello @Beetow,

What you say in your post (reply#16) presumes that there is consciousness in death, doesn't it? Yet we are told that there is no consciousness in death.

This gets into soul sleep. But that's another discussion for another day. For sake of argument, let us say you are right. They are simply "dead". No more physical activity, no more mind activity at all.
I suppose I would be willing to concede that much. But a day will come... when both the righteous and the wicked will be resurrected.

John 5:28; "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
John 5:29; and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

Acts 24:15; having a hope in God, which these men cherish themselves, that there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

The word resurrection isn't in the old testament anywhere.
It was an unknown concept it seems. However in the New Testament, it's mentioned quite a bit. ( Over 40 times )

1Cor 15:13; But if there is no resurrection of the dead, not even Christ has been raised;
1Cor 15:14; and if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also is vain.

When does this happen? On the "last day". (There are different interpretations of what that means).

John 6:39; "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day.
John 6:40; "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."
John 6:44; "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.
John 6:54; "He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.

So it may be.. that you are correct, they are simply "dead". But they won't stay that way.
A lot of thing were revealed in the New Testament, that the prophets of the old testament never knew.

 

[B-A-C]

The title of his thread.... it talks about Hell. It makes a few incorrect assumptions.

But first hell/hades is not Sheol, hell and hades is just one side of Sheol. Abraham's bosom/Paradise is on the other side of Sheol, obviously Paradise is not Hell.
Second, hell/hades is not the lake of fire. Hell is a temporary place, the Lake of Fire is a permanent place. Eventually hell will be thrown into the Lake of Fire.
Third, the Lake of fire is not "separation from God". The Bible says God is even in hell. It says people will be thrown into the Lake of Fire.. in the presence of God.
So God is even in hell.

Rev 20:14; Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
Rev 14:10; he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
Psa 139:8; If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there. (KJV)

For people who believe in the Trinity (including myself) Jesus is God. Jesus himself went to sheol temporarily.

Eph 4:9; (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
Eph 4:10; He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
Col 2:15; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.