What verses make you sure?

[TRUTH BE TOLD]

Of a pre trib rapture? So many believe that Jesus is gonna come anytime before the tribulation and there's not one verse that say's so...... if you cant defend your belief then why do you think its true?

Cause your gonna find that the economy is going to crash and the famine and civil war starts...... the 10 virgins all had oil all had light of Christ YET when the Master is delayed they then fall away....

So there are plenty of gathering together/rapture verses for the time of tribulation but
What makes you sure? Not looking for debate... just that when it happens and you have no food or water I dont want you to be a foolish virgin

Could anyone give just ONE verse to start? Just the verse and not a big write up

 

[complete]

Of a pre trib rapture? So many believe that Jesus is gonna come anytime before the tribulation and there's not one verse that say's so...... if you cant defend your belief then why do you think its true?

Cause your gonna find that the economy is going to crash and the famine and civil war starts...... the 10 virgins all had oil all had light of Christ YET when the Master is delayed they then fall away....

So there are plenty of gathering together/rapture verses for the time of tribulation but
What makes you sure? Not looking for debate... just that when it happens and you have no food or water I dont want you to be a foolish virgin

Could anyone give just ONE verse to start? Just the verse and not a big write up

Hello Truth Be Told,

My hope is that of Colossians 3:3,

'If ye then be risen with Christ,
seek those things which are above,
where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
Set your affection on things above,
not on things on the earth.
For ye are dead,
and your life is hid with Christ in God.
When Christ, who is our life, shall appear,
then shall ye also appear with Him in glory'.
(Col 3:1-4)

What is the hope if your calling?

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[TRUTH BE TOLD]

Hello..... thanks for your reply

The question is if you believe the pre tribulation rapture can you give one verse to show its pre trib?


Because people Sept 25th is coming and what happens that day? The UN meets and the pope is going to push for a one world government of science because of climate change (hoax) and I believe he will push the peace treaty between israel and islam and many others.... so if Jesus is coming pre-trib He may be coming next month...

 

[TRUTH BE TOLD]

Complete said:
When Christ, who is our life, shall appear,
then shall ye also appear with Him in glory'.
(Col 3:1-4)


TRUTH BE TOLD replies:

2Thess 1:7 paul says wait till Christ is revealed from heaven
1:10 shows us in Glory with Christ because we believed what was preached in that day today - this of course is the gathering together or rapture.... but when does this happen?

 

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'The United Nations is announcing that Pope Francis will address the annual U.N. General Assembly of world leaders on Sept. 25 during his first papal visit to the United States.

The pope earlier agreed to address a joint meeting of Congress on his visit. That Sept. 24 speech will mark the first time the head of the world's Roman Catholics will address Congress.

Francis is also expected to have a White House meeting with President Barack Obama.

The U.N. says the pope also will meet with Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon on his one-day visit to the world body.

Wednesday's statement welcomes the pope's visit as "an important part of a historic year in which the United Nations marks its 70th anniversary.'

Hello, Truth Be Told,

Yes, I understand your question, and know the issue you wish to debate. I have just seen too many pre./post tribulation debates.

I now understand your reason for introducing the question. Though as a member of the Church which is His Body, the Thessalonian hope, either pre. or post tribulation is not my hope, so I see no point in becoming involved in a debate about it. However the day of the Lord will not take place until certain events have occurred. They are, 'the apostasy' and 'the revelation of the man of sin, the son of perdition'

'Let no man deceive you by any means:
for that day shall not come,
except there come a falling away first,
and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God,
or that is worshipped;
so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God,
shewing himself that he is God.
Remember ye not,
that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
(2Thess. 2:3-5)

* The 'falling away', is 'rebellion', a willful departure from truth.
* Matthew 24:14-16, and 'the abomination of desolation', marks the beginning of the great time of persecution known as 'the Great Tribulation', and the faithful Jewish remnant are warned to escape to the mountains as quickly as possible. This comes just prior to the three and a half year Great tribulation.

Personally, I believe that there is yet some time to go, before these events occur.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[TRUTH BE TOLD]

Hello but you do not understand my reasoning for such a question, the Tribulation is coming as I stated above and pre tribers are going to be here with no food or water.... so I want to see why they believe something that leaves them open to being a unwise virgin when the masters delayed..

Also the peace treaty is in effect until the 3.5 year mark so at that point the agreement is broke and the Antichrist armies move upon Jerusalem to surround the city and that happens after the agreement is broke after the 3.5 yr mark....
Eze 38 shows the attack of islam (gog) on last days israel and Daniel 11:21 shows the Antichrist vs gog..and this goes all the way thru to 12:2 book of life....

 

[complete]

Hello but you do not understand my reasoning for such a question, the Tribulation is coming as I stated above and pre tribers are going to be here with no food or water.... so I want to see why they believe something that leaves them open to being a unwise virgin when the masters delayed..

Hi there,

Thank you for your further response. I am sorry if I am misunderstanding you.

I do not believe that those who are believing and trusting in the finished work of Christ, in this dispensation, are those spoken of as having the potential to be 'unwise virgins' (Matt. 25:1-13).

Also the peace treaty is in effect until the 3.5 year mark so at that point the agreement is broke and the Antichrist armies move upon Jerusalem to surround the city and that happens after the agreement is broke after the 3.5 yr mark....
Eze 38 shows the attack of islam (gog) on last days israel and Daniel 11:21 shows the Antichrist vs gog..and this goes all the way thru to 12:2 book of life....

This is something which I must take a little time over and come back to you on.

Thank you, 'Truth Be Told',
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Chad]

Check this out

Evidence For A PreTribulation Rapture

 

[complete]

Check this out

Evidence For A PreTribulation Rapture

Thank you Chad,

I have taken a look, but have not studied it in detail yet.

Truth Be Told:
My mind has just latched on to one detail in Matthew 24:14 - 21, which I looked up prior to my earlier response.

'And this gospel of the kingdom
shall be preached in all the world
for a witness unto all nations;
and then shall the end come.
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation,
spoken of by Daniel the prophet,
stand in the holy place,
(whoso readeth, let him understand
... flee ....
For then shall be great tribulation,
such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time,
no, nor ever shall be. '

* Let me explain first, that end-time events have not been a priority study of mine, so I am a little hazy as to the order of events.
The opening words, highlighted above, tell us that, 'the gospel of the kingdom' shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations, and then shall the end come. Then the first visible indicator is given as, 'the abomination of desolation'.(Daniel 12:11),

* This gospel is not the gospel of the grace of God, which is preached in this present day. This is the gospel of the Kingdom, preached by John the Baptist, our Lord Jesus Christ, and by the twelve: and was preached to the Lost sheep of the house of Israel, and to the circumcision during the Acts period. This will be preached again at the end-time, prior to the abomination of desolation being seen in the holy place.

* This latter day preaching of the kingdom, my Bible marginal notes tell me, is portrayed In the parable of the sower, (Matt. 13:3-23), in the fourth sowing. It will be the final proclamation of 'the Gospel of the Kingdom', immediately preceding and during the Tribulation (Matt. 24:14), Blindness has 'happened to Israel,' but it is only 'in part' (Rom. 11:25). The answer to the 'how long' of Isa. 6:11-13 will then be seen. This sowing will be of short duration only, as were the other three, and numbered by 'days' (Dan.12:12,13; Matt. 24:22, Luke 17:26). There will be a special manifestation of the presence and power of the Lord (Matt. 28:20), at the end of this age; and, when this sowing is over, the end will come (Matt. 24:13,14), concerning which the disciples had inquired in Matt. 24:3.

* For this to be happening, for this gospel to be preached, the Church of this present time must no longer be, surely?

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[TRUTH BE TOLD]

Complete.... hello... I disagree for the fact that Jesus has Not gathered together his bride so that is still on the table....... once Christ comes those virgins who are watching are gathered together to meet Christ in the air and be with Him forever... then those jews who flee to the wilderness happens when the agreement has been broken @3.5 yrs but Christ hasnt come yet as seen in Matt 24 Mark 13 luke 21

Those people after the rapture who Havent taken the image of the beast and worshipped him will mainly at that time be only the fleeing jews and they are spoken of at Rev 14:13 shows us that those who die from this point on (jews) and we see in 14:14 that jesus is on the cloud and in 15 we see an angel tell Jesus its time for the gathering together and 15-16 are believers with 17-20 unbelievers.

This shows those jews who flee will be in the kingdom of God but Not at the marriage feast and will Not rule with Christ but rest.......

We see this also in Dan 11:41 starting with the antichrist cant get to the wilderness as its protected for 3.5yrs ( Rev 12:6&14)... and of course Dan 12:1-2 show the same thing as Rev 14:14-20....


So I disagree

 

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Hello @Truth Be Told,

You have bounded your reply at beginning and end with the words, 'I disagree', so I can be in no doubt about that fact
Praise God! For your directness.

It is my final summation with which you disagree, isn't it (quote)
For this to be happening, for this gospel to be preached, (the gospel of the kingdom) the Church of this present time must no longer be.

* Let me go through your reply with you now, and see where and why you 'disagree'.

I disagree for the fact that Jesus has Not gathered together His bride so that is still on the table.......

* This requires an inquiry from me to you, Truth Be Told.:-
- Which company of the redeemed do you identify with the figure of 'The Bride'.?

* This has to be understood, otherwise there will be confusion. For,
- I do not believe that the Church which is the Body of Christ (Eph. 1:22,23), of which Christ is the Head,
is the company called 'The Bride'.
- I do not believe that the Church which is His Body, will have part in the resurrection described in 2 Thessalonians 2,
but will appear with Christ in glory, when He 'appears' there, prior to His coming (Col.3:3,4).

'For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
When Christ, who is our life, shall appear,
then shall ye also appear with Him in glory.'

* It is Christ's 'appearing' in glory, that this company looks for:-

'Looking for that blessed hope,
and the glorious appearing
of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;'
(Tit 2:13)

* I am looking through the references you have given me, Truth Be Told, but await your reply to my inquiry before proceeding.

Within the love of Christ our Saviour,
Now risen and glorified,
Chris

 

[TRUTH BE TOLD]

How can you not be waiting with Paul?
He ask you to... 2thes 1:7

2:10 the glory you speak of is Right Here.... when Christ comes down in power and the whole world see's Him (both dead and living) and those who believed what Paul said in That day and when we meet him in the air... this is the Glory that He has in us who believe on Him - this is titus 2:13

 

[TRUTH BE TOLD]

Complete said:
I do not believe that those who are believing and trusting in the finished work of Christ, in this dispensation, are those spoken of as having the potential to be 'unwise virgins' (Matt. 25:1-13).


TRUTH BE TOLD replies:

but they are virgins brides to Christ the bridegroom and they all have oil and flame... the flame is the light of Christ to the world. Unbelievers cant have this.... Christ only grabs His bride once

 

[TRUTH BE TOLD]

So by gospel of the kingdom your saying no more Christ Crucified being preached?

 

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How can you not be waiting with Paul?
He ask you to... 2thes 1:7

'And to you who are troubled rest with us,
when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed
from heaven with his mighty angels,
'(2Thess. 1:7)

Hello Truth Be Told,

Thank you for replying to my question.

The epistle to the Thessalonians was written before the revelation was given to Paul which was the subject of his later epistles, Ephesians, Colossians, Philippians, 1 & 2 Timothy and Titus: and in Philippians 3:11 we see that Paul hoped for yet another resurrection, one this time which he strove to attain to That is the resurrection I hope for too. The hope of 2 Thessalonians depended on the repentance of Israel as a nation. That did not happen, so the Thessalonian hope awaits a yet future day.

The revelation was given to Paul concerning the Church of the One Body, of which Christ is the Head, following the quotation of Isaiah 6, with it's warning to Israel, which had been thrice repeated, (Acts 28: 26,27): then the gospel was sent to the Gentiles for they would hear it. (v.18). The hope of the Church of the One Body is found in Col. 3:3,4.

2:10 the glory you speak of is Right Here.... when Christ comes down in power and the whole world see's Him (both dead and living) and those who believed what Paul said in That day and when we meet him in the air... this is the Glory that He has in us who believe on Him - this is titus 2:13

No, for Titus was written following the laying aside of Israel in unbelief (temporarily) at the end of the record of the book of Acts. It therefore reflects the truth of the revelation given to Paul to administer, and made known in the letters he wrote while in prison. (named above)

For us to continue talking about the Thessalonian hope, while having such a differing understanding regarding those to whom it applies, would cause confusion, Truth Be Told.

Within the love of Christ our Saviour,
Chris

 

[TRUTH BE TOLD]

Complete said: The epistle to the Thessalonians was written before the revelation was given to Paul

TRUTH BE TOLD replies: 2Cor 12:1-7 is paul talking of himself..... that he wont glory in himself because he was taking to heaven to get his revelation...this happened while He was called saul.... so you might want to rethink what you believe

 

[TRUTH BE TOLD]

Paul waits till Christ is revealed from Heaven
Tell me complete has that happened yet?

Since it has Not happened yet were would Paul still be?
still waiting for Christ with those He asked to wait with them
Correct.....

 

[TRUTH BE TOLD]

Complete said: No, for Titus was written following the laying aside of Israel in unbelief (temporarily) at the end of the record of the book of Acts. It therefore reflects the truth of the revelation given to Paul to administer, and made known in the letters he wrote while in prison.

TRUTH BE TOLD replies: titus says:

Looking for the blessed hope and the GLORIOUS APPEARING OF JESUS.... this is the rapture Paul speaks of.....there is only one Complete..... you act as if there are 2 ..... the jews arent raptured if your thinking that....

 

[TRUTH BE TOLD]

Hey 2 thess paul wait's till Christ is revealed from Heaven has that happened yet?

So paul is talking to EVERYONE FROM HIS WRITING TILL CHRIST COMES....

You dont go by what is plainly said by paul.... he waits till Christ comes and ask us to wait for the same event he waits for.....

 

[TRUTH BE TOLD]

When Christ, who is our life, shall appear,
then shall ye also appear with Him in glory'.
(Col 3:1-4)


2thes 1:10 shows Christ appearing in Glory which Paul awaits.... why cant you get that.... this is Christ GLORY TIME BEFORE THE WHOLE WORLD... and it is Us appearing with Him.... this is the only time this happens so sorry you are wrong