What Would Jesus Censor?

[s.i.e.]

After seeing the locking of BCRE8TVE's recent threads that he started called "The existence of God" and "Questions for Atheists", it reminds me of so much I have witnessed in the Church over the years.

It makes me sad, and makes me wonder: what would Jesus censor?


What would Jesus try to control in such a way that conversations and real questions get snuffed out, sent into exile, and told to go have the conversation elsewhere?

And if Jesus did snuff such conversations out, what might be His reason for doing it?

Personally, I don't believe Jesus would censor at all. I believe Jesus would encourage thoughts, questions, wrestling, to be done....and conversations to be had.



And if the Church can't be a place to explore one's belief system, premises, assumptions about God/Creation, etc....then where shall we send them?

Christians have this tendency to want to kick those on the outside, back to the curb from which they came. That's not only sad, it makes me angry.

Jesus has never censored me, even with all the crazy questions I've brought to Him over the years...especially with my greatest doubts.

If He did, I would never have had a way towards finding the Grace and Love that melts me so often.

Let's not deny that to anyone.



BCRE8TVE: I'm sorry your thoughts weren't respected, and your questions got snuffed out. I enjoyed hearing and sharing with you, and thought you asked and explored some great questions. I personally believe you're seeking these things out, because there is something in you that is curious about the source of all the beauty and order that you witness around you. Keep seeking, brother. Hope you stick around, but can't blame you if you don't, due to the fear response you've gotten here.

Jesus is worth exploring. Start there. The God of the Old Testament is harder to understand. Leave that for later. Some of that takes a surrendering to the things we simply can never know. That said, this surrendering is something you have to do any time you use faith to accept things, including much of the premises that you have adhered to.

 

[B-A-C]

Jesus had certain standards. Thing's weren't always "grace and love" especially to those preaching the Law.

With freedom speech, comes great responsibility.

He kicked the money changers out of the temple.
Mat 21:12 And Jesus entered the temple and drove out all those who were buying and selling in the temple, and overturned the tables of the money changers and the seats of those who were selling doves.
He told the Pharisees that they didn't even know how to speak anything good
Mat 12:34 "You brood of vipers, how can you, being evil, speak what is good? For the mouth speaks out of that which fills the heart.

He "censored" the demons.
Mar 1:34 And He healed many who were ill with various diseases, and cast out many demons; and He was not permitting the demons to speak, because they knew who He was.
Mar 1:25 And Jesus rebuked him, saying, "Be quiet, and come out of him!"
Mar 3:11 Whenever the unclean spirits saw Him, they would fall down before Him and shout, "You are the Son of God!"
Mar 3:12 And He earnestly warned them not to tell who He was.
Luk 4:35 But Jesus rebuked him, saying, "Be quiet and come out of him!" And when the demon had thrown him down in the midst of the people, he came out of him without doing him any harm.

Jesus told us to be careful what we say
Mat 12:36 "But I tell you that every careless word that people speak, they shall give an accounting for it in the day of judgment.
God "censored" Zacharias.
Luk 1:20 "And behold, you shall be silent and unable to speak until the day when these things take place, because you did not believe my words, which will be fulfilled in their proper time."
Pro 4:24 Put away from you a deceitful mouth And put devious speech far from you.
Pro 6:2 If you have been snared with the words of your mouth, Have been caught with the words of your mouth,
Jas 1:26 If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man's religion is worthless.
1Jn 3:18 Little children, let us not love with word or with tongue, but in deed and truth.

In the old Testament entire groups of people were killed (some would even say genocide) because they were worshipping false Gods and teaching others to do the same.
I suppose you could say this is a form of censorship as well.

One of my personal favorite stories in the Bible is 1Kings 18:18-39
1Ki 18:40 Then Elijah said to them, "Seize the prophets of Baal; do not let one of them escape." So they seized them; and Elijah brought them down to the brook Kishon, and slew them there.

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

BCRE8TVE: I'm sorry your thoughts weren't respected, and your questions got snuffed out. I enjoyed hearing and sharing with you, and thought you asked and explored some great questions. I personally believe you're seeking these things out, because there is something in you that is curious about the source of all the beauty and order that you witness around you. Keep seeking, brother. Hope you stick around, but can't blame you if you don't, due to the fear response you've gotten here.

I am of the same mind.I was extremely disappointed by the harsh censorship.

I fought against SOPA and PIPA yesterday and the people's voice was heard by the US government and our representatives decided to table the vote.

Christians have to face an unbelieving harsh world every day and we had a safe environment to practice talking to unbelievers.
I have to talk to Atheists and Agnostics everyday so I know what they say against us and this kind of harshness is what they expect from us. They think we have our heads in the sand and are afraid of reality.

We are more than conquerors in Christ so why should a conqueror fear dialog with anyone.I hang my head in shame everytime we suppress the truth or hinder those who are attempting to find or test truth.
Are we afraid of Atheists because we can't answer them?
Pray for the answers,don't hide from the questions.

 

[Brother Mike]

What would Jesus censor.

The scripture make it very clear in the way we should conduct ourselves.

2Ti 2:23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.
2Ti 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
2Ti 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

Tit 3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.
Tit 3:10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;
Tit 3:11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.


Nobody was rejected.
Nobody was censored.

Every Christian establishment that is run "Decent and in Order" has rules. Some rules allow for certain things, while other rules allow more freedom of expression.

When it's time to sing and praise God, then go all out and do so, if the Pastor is giving a sermon, then it's not time to sing and shout for Joy. There is a order to things.

The Rules are very clear here for this forum. Each section also has outlines that should be followed, which is the reason we move post to their proper places.

With that being said, we all want people to come to the knowledge of the truth, even if it means putting up with their nonsense and constant challenging. The Ethics and Morality thread is not one of those places.

Forum Rules:

Talk Jesus is mainly about two things. Praising Jesus Christ and sharing Truth with others. It is not for speaking against Scripture simply because you are in disbelief. If you disagree with the Word of GOD, please leave unless you came to learn the Truth as told by GOD in Scripture.

4.No false teaching of Scripture. We preach what the Holy Bible says, nothing else.
- this site is not for preaching any religion at all. It is solely 100% about the Holy Bible and Jesus/GOD.
- any teaching outside Scripture including debates will result in account termination

Bullet:
Before creating a new topic thread, one is advised to search to see if a similar topic already exists.
-------------------------

If someone is seeking God or searching for God they may post their questions here.

Seeking Jesus? - Talk Jesus | Christian Forums

Talk Jesus is not a place where other religions (non-Christians) can come to argue and debate just because we have Christians here that do not share the same view as they do.

Mike.

 

[s.i.e.]

Hi Brother Mike - been a while.

Hey, now that your moderator, it's (partially) your forum, and your environment that you want to choose to create...and you can obviously do what you want, as you have shown in the locking of those threads.

But you're wrong when you say nobody was rejected and nobody was censored. BCRE8TVE brought his thoughts, questions, assumptions and curiosity to this place...and it was kicked to the wayside, and put out of its misery. Shut out.

I find that not only disrespectful, but unfair both for he as well as those who shared their thoughts / heart / feelings / understanding, back at him.

Did BCRE8TVE have the devil in him, or a demon? Was he trying to spread his own agenda, or "religion"? I don't believe so. I believe he was "testing" his premise against that of the Christian. Perhaps, to built up his own belief system all the more...or perhaps not. But, several times, he mentioned his openness to change. Perhaps you didn't believe, or trust, that? Only you and God can know...

So...wah wah. sniffle sniffle.

Don't worry...I'll get over it...but to where shall you hope that BCRE8TVE now goes with such questions? Such wrestling?

To where can he go?

To your average everyday Church across America? They'll kick him to the curb too. And why? For what reason? For our own self-protection, and pseudo-sense of safety and self-preservation, perhaps?

I think so.



History is not written by the dead or marginalized --- so, in the case of these forums, the voices of the BCRE8TVE's die.

Jesus came not for those in power, but for the marginalized, as you and we all know.

I would hope this kind of place would welcome these kind of questions, and am very sorry to see that they are not.



adding this: B-A-C --- thanks for those scriptures. You are right, there actually are some things that Jesus censored, such as demons and demonic demonstrations, and I certainly am glad we have that example to follow.

Also, while this may be the stuff for another topic / thread, I love the example Jesus demonstrated in your Matthew 21:12 reference, where he drove out the money-changers in the temple, and people in the seats of those selling doves.

I wish our modern-day example of Christianity would follow such examples of this, by censoring the prosperity-doctrine crowd that we too-often see on TV as we're flipping through the channels, such as the Kenneth Copeland's / Benny Hinn's / Michael Lamb's of the world.

They are in the seats of those selling doves, and I would love to see Jesus kicking over their tables.

 

[rizen1]

Grace and Peace SIE,

I strongly oppose censorship and believe everyone has the right to question. Brother Mike is a moderator but does not own this site or have the authority to create any environment. Matters are taken to Chad and threads can be closed to give a conversation a break or because it's not fruitful. In other words close threads can be easily reopened.

I suggest you speak with Brother Mike privately and about how this make you feel.

Again I believe in freedom of speech, but there's a time and place for everything. BCRE8TVE is still a member who holds no infractions on his record. There's no conspiracy to silent him. Let us not get distracted and become resentful. Let us pose scriptural tools on how together we can make TalkJesus a true place of fellowship.

Should a separate forum be created for these situations ?

BCRE8TVE have no restrictions on his account and members are free to continue answer his questions. He has not been left alone unless members have chosen to stop all communications. Being a brothers keeper do not end when a thread is closed. If we are reaching out to someone it can easily be continued outside the forum or within the site.

For now the thread is closed until further notice, let us pray for each other. So many prayer request threads are met with less than five responses. New member threads should be filled with welcomes.

SIE your contributions are appreciated and I hope for 2012, we can truly come together and make our fellowship a great experience without fear.

Be blessed.
Now to answer your question.

Would Jesus censor ?
No he would not, if he did it'd be easier for historian to discredit him. Most of the hard questioned posed to him was who he is. Imagine if he never answered, we'd have no record.
When the Pharisees and Saducees questioned Jesus or tested him he answered and also exposed them.
Jesus can see the heart of men and their motives.
Censorship for us is tricky, we as human fail at times knowing the motives of others and their questions. That's why rules are important, it's there to give us guidelines.

Matthew 22

1And Jesus answered and spake unto them again by parables, and said,

2The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,

3And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.

4Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.

5But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:

6And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them.

7But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.

8Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.

9Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.

10So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.

11And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:

12And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.

13Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

14For many are called, but few are chosen.

15Then went the Pharisees, and took counsel how they might entangle him in his talk.

16And they sent out unto him their disciples with the Herodians, saying, Master, we know that thou art true, and teachest the way of God in truth, neither carest thou for any man: for thou regardest not the person of men.

17Tell us therefore, What thinkest thou? Is it lawful to give tribute unto Caesar, or not?

18But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, Why tempt ye me, ye hypocrites?

19Shew me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a penny.

20And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription?

21They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.

22When they had heard these words, they marvelled, and left him, and went their way.

23The same day came to him the Sadducees, which say that there is no resurrection, and asked him,

24Saying, Master, Moses said, If a man die, having no children, his brother shall marry his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.

25Now there were with us seven brethren: and the first, when he had married a wife, deceased, and, having no issue, left his wife unto his brother:

26Likewise the second also, and the third, unto the seventh.

27And last of all the woman died also.

28Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her.

29Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

30For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

31But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,

32I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

33And when the multitude heard this, they were astonished at his doctrine.

34But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together.

35Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,

36Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38This is the first and great commandment.

39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

41While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them,

42Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The son of David.

43He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,

44The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?

45If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?

46And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.

 

[s.i.e.]

And that's what's disappointing to me, and frankly, caused me to get angry.

Your suggestion to pray this through is certainly a good one, and I appreciate it.

Whatever happened, happened for a reason, and happened in exactly the way it was meant to happen. Even my response. Even Brother Mike's locking. Everything.

Even so, it doesn't cause me to stop feeling along the way.

Thanks rizen1

I'm actually a sister, but for some strange reason people think I'm a brother.

Yes we have feelings and rightfully we should express them. Brother Mike meant no harm and was doing what he felt to be the right thing and did follow protocol. Being Green is not easy. And as you stated "Whatever happened, happened for a reason, and happened in exactly the way it was meant to happen. Even my response. Even Brother Mike's locking. Everything."

 

[rizen1]

I'm actually a sister, but for some strange reason people think I'm a brother.

Yes we have feelings and rightfully we should express them. Brother Mike meant no harm and was doing what he felt to be the right thing and did follow protocol. Being Green is not easy. And as you stated "Whatever happened, happened for a reason, and happened in exactly the way it was meant to happen. Even my response. Even Brother Mike's locking. Everything."

Forgive me SIE, I just committed my first moderator blooper and accidently click edit instead of reply. I was writing inside you post.

:shock::confused2:

 

[s.i.e.]

Wow. How cool. Didn't know you could do that!

Hey...you can be me. Even speak for me! Perhaps I can just go on auto-pilot, and let you be me for a while, and I can just sit back in wonder, enjoying all the various things I'll be saying!





No problem, rizen1. In your doing that, it seems my post got deleted. Oh well. Whoever saw it, saw it, and again....must have been "meant to be".

Ok - thanks rizen1. Oh, and sorry for referring to you as a brother, when you're a sis.

my bad!

 

[rizen1]

Ok - thanks rizen1. Oh, and sorry for referring to you as a brother, when you're a sis.

It's ok.

lol, yes for the Moderators there's an edit button right next to quote and I clicked edit. Now, Now, this does not mean you can begin saying crazy stuff and say it's me.

It's the year 2020 and SIE is on trial for saying crazy stuff.

Judge: SIE do you admit to saying these things and causing a ruckus?

SIE : Judge I'm a man of many words, but in the past a person by the name of rizen1 impersonated me.

Judge: how do you plead ?

SIE : Not guilty

What have I gotten myself into..:disagree:

 

[Brother Mike]

Once again.

rizen1:

Yes we have feelings and rightfully we should express them. Brother Mike meant no harm and was doing what he felt to be the right thing and did follow protocol. Being Green is not easy. And as you stated "Whatever happened, happened for a reason, and happened in exactly the way it was meant to happen. Even my response. Even Brother Mike's locking. Everything."

As it was stated, The correct choice we made. There are other reasons for locking the threads and have this thing clam down. It has nothing to do with being afraid, or wanting to keep our tight nit bubble of Christians safe.

I fully respect all the hard work and effort from everyone that has posted with scriptures in attempts to shed light to the poster. I know your work was not in vain, as the Word of God is seed and takes time to grow, and that is the other reason I locked the threads.

We have no open debate on Talk Jesus for non-Believers. We do have a awesome chat room, and places to ask questions. We can also P.M others to help them.

Jesus is Lord.

 

[brakelite]

I for one find this forum extremely tolerant. I have been to Calvinist based forums where there are only 100 or so members and they stomp on just about anyone who dares claim there is a truth outside of their own little world.

I think rizen's response to be entirely fair and reasonable. That said, we must be very careful when handling such matters as challenges to our faith. The scriptures exhort us to.... 1Pe 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
Even Morning star, who I do believe lied concerning his status and thus the deletion of his account being entirely justified, did have some serious challenges, and brought up a number of difficult texts. If we do not have good sound Biblical answers to these challenges; if we either ignore them hoping they will go away; or if we are dishonest ourselves about our own understanding (because lets face it, we don't know everything) he/she who asks the question will go away feeling fully justified and vindicated in their own unbelief.

 

[Fraction]

I'm actually a sister, but for some strange reason people think I'm a brother.

It says it to the left that you are a male by the way. I thought you were a guy until now too. Might want to change that, lol.

 

[Brother Mike]

Non-Denominational.

brakelite

I for one find this forum extremely tolerant. I have been to Calvinist based forums where there are only 100 or so members and they stomp on just about anyone who dares claim there is a truth outside of their own little world.

That pretty much sums it up here at Talk Jesus. There are no issues with being a Calvinist here, no issue with believing there are no speaking in tongues today, or speaking in tongues today.

All these fall into that circle that states God's Word is correct, it does not contradict, and Jesus is Lord and only way to be saved.

You can have many different views, but yet stay within that circle here.

If you fall outside that circle, as in questioning the authority of God's Word, then you have no place here because of the rules this forum. There is also nothing to show you to prove truth as you already do not believe in truth, or believe the truth was changed or diminished.

Chad uses the Bible as the final authority here.

4. No false teaching of Scripture. We preach what the Holy Bible says, nothing else. (notice Chad underlined the words "Nothing else"???? Chad also put these words in RED to draw attention to.)

7. Provide Scripture when making a biblical point

If you feel the bible is wrong in certain places, that puts everything in the word in question. These forums have not made provision to prove anything as being true that is outside of Gods Word.

MorningStar drew attention to himself with his denying that many scriptures were true, when we already assume that every scripture is true.

Chad clearly stated these forums are not for:
http://www.talkjesus.com/press-stand/53-talk-jesus-10-commandments-rule.html

.

...... for speaking against Scripture simply because you are in disbelief. If you disagree with the Word of GOD, please leave unless you came to learn the Truth as told by GOD in Scripture.

This is the Ethics and Morality of Talk Jesus.

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[David777]

Hello all.

I also thought s.i.e was a male, puzzling.

Anyway, I am with s.i.e on this one.

What a crazy world we live in, so dark and confused.

I am not surprised that atheists and the like connect here.

I do not expect them to behave, look at the world they come from.

Like s.i.e, i think BCRE8TVE was genuine.

Further, it's informative to hear different arguments. It allows others reading the posts to sometimes understand different aspects of Christianity. Or, how science, etc, relate to the revelation of Jesus. In my case i can attest to this.

Many Christians are very reluctant to raise questions involving some areas. Some will find answers within the chaos of these discussions.

This is a Christian website too that I also understand.

Oh, the horns of dilemma.

Hey, Fraction grab the pitchfork, we got ourselves another one, yeeha.

 

[s.i.e.]

ugh: ok...for final clarification on this one, yes, me, s.i.e. ---- I'm a male. A guy. A dude.

rizen1 -- see what you've created! (all in jest, I hope you know)


I'm going to have to supina you for my court appearance, so you can attest for my gender confusion here...'ya know!!!


In this thread, there was one post that was under my name, that was actually written by rizen1. She's a gal. (now I'm aware of that!) Hence, the gender confusion....but unless or until she pulls that trick again, everything written by me, s.i.e., is written by a dude.

In the process of all that, one of my posts got deleted...which is probably a blessing to all 'yall. It's rizen1 offering all 'yall some grace. Just Kidding.

 

[s.i.e.]

There are no issues with being a Calvinist here, no issue with believing there are no speaking in tongues today, or speaking in tongues today.

All these fall into that circle that states God's Word is correct, it does not contradict, and Jesus is Lord and only way to be saved.

You can have many different views, but yet stay within that circle here.

If you fall outside that circle, as in questioning the authority of God's Word, then you have no place here

I guess I don't see how you reconcile that thought, with the "branding" that we see on the front page of TalkJesus, which says "a community for serious Christians & those who seek"

For "those who seek", they're not gonna ask questions about the validity, or lack thereof, of speaking in tongues, or being a Calvinist...they're gonna start the way we all started:

Is God real?

Does He exist?

If so, does He care?

Did He show care in the O.T. when he wiped out entire communities?

Is God good? (I started a rather lenghy thread on that subject myself...and it didn't get locked, and I didn't get banned. Perhaps I should have? )

Was Noah's Arc just metaphorical?

etc, etc., etc.,



We all may be settled on those things...but perhaps even some of us believers aren't, but since we've been in Christian cultural-circles so long, we have become to reluctant to ask, or, re-ask?

Obviously here, my opinion, is that some of those "rules" should be relaxed.....or, the "sub-branding" of TalkJesus should remove the "& those who seek" part...

-a dude / a guy

 

[Kit Carson]

I fully support the decision made. In this world a great many things need to be thrown out and away and constant toleration of a great many things tends to sneak in and create confusion and disharmony.

If a person comes and says I do not believe in God because.......whatever the reason and you reply and you see a bit of acceptance and willingness to discuss, that is one thing.

But when a professional atheist comes to town and post after post drags you into the mud such as the saying goes, do not wrestle with a pig in the mud as the pig likes mud.

I have tried many times to debate with an atheist and generally they are highly educated and in the ways of the world much smarter of the world than I am. It will eventually come to them trying to get you to prove a negative is a positive and lead you entirely away from God. They are not interested in God other than to disprove God.

So I bear a non believer no ill will, they are no threat to me, but they may be a threat to a new believer. Satan roams the world looking for a way to place a wedge and a constant debate about whether God exists or not, when the atheist party is not at all trying to accept or to learn, but to simply prove his attack and his own faith in the lack of God, not realizing that his own faith in the non existence of God takes more faith than belief in God.

Anyways, as it says in First Corinthians 14:33 God is not the author of confusion, but one of peace.

So closing the thread to keep peace and harmony in the family of God was the wise thing to do.

Kit

 

[David777]

Right of response!

Chad teased the atheists with his thread.

Atheists climb aboard the good ship TJ.

Do they have a right to attack us?

Is it fair on the one hand to provoke, then on the other to ban.

There seems to be a warp in the logic used.

 

[Mr. Traverse]

As an atheist, can I now claim that Christians are persecuting atheists? I just wonder what the Christians would be saying if it were the other way around; an atheist censoring a Christian.

For what it's worth, I appreciate the Christians who saw the censorship for what it was. A capable non-believer showed how unjustified the Christian beliefs are. The only way that type of belief can continue to exist is if it silences inquiring minds, either with apologetics dressed up in pretty bows, or other ways (in this case it happened to be the closing of a thread). At least we can say the actions of silencing non-believers no longer involves violence, right? Baby steps.

Respectfully,

Traverse