What Would Jesus Censor?

[eddieb]

Chad teased the atheists with his thread.

Atheists climb aboard the good ship TJ.

Do they have a right to attack us?

Is it fair on the one hand to provoke, then on the other to ban.

There seems to be a warp in the logic used.

oh no !!! lets not tease them. (i am teasing you.)

but for serious now. if the atheists had there way we would be outlaws for our beliefs. dont get me wrong i do not condone tit-for-tat or in scriptual terms eye for an eye. but i doubt chad meant it that way. i think it was a joke. i know i enjoyed it.

edit part: maybe joke is a bad way to put it. he did have a point. the big bang is silly. life from nothing is silly. so in a way he also laid down beliefs.

 

[Brother Mike]

Now the real story.

Mr. Traverse

There was no censorship. I did not close the thread because of that.

I did not close the thread because I have to protect other Christians, or even have a care about it.

Like any other place, this forum has something called rules. I stated those rules. You don't go to a Tupperware forum and start telling everyone how stupid Tupperware really is. It just does not work that way.

We have no place in this particular forum for Non-Christians to come in, start threads, telling everyone what "THEY" believe.

Other Christians forums may have something like that, this one is dedicated to those seeking God, or those wanting to fellowship and share the Word of God.

Doing these things normally gets you BANNED.

So, instead of flagging warnings, banning people, I closed the threads and directed everyone to post in the Atheist thread. People can still P.M, they can ask questions in the Seeking Jesus thread, and we have a chat box you can type to others in.

I hope you understand what rules are. If I see another Atheist thread that even remotely suggest there is no God, I will not be so understanding.

I sincerely hope this makes sense to you.

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[David777]

Hello Mr Traverse.

You claimed,

"As an atheist, can I now claim that Christians are persecuting atheists? I just wonder what the Christians would be saying if it were the other way around; an atheist censoring a Christian."

You cannot claim "persecution" for two reasons:

i) Persecution: the systematic mistreatment of an individual or group by another group. The most common forms are religious persecution, ethnic persecution, and political persecution,

An atheist is none of the above categories!

ii) You would need a witness, I saw nothing Mr Traverse.

Hey Fraction, I think we got one here, yeeha.

 

[eddieb]

As an atheist, can I now claim that Christians are persecuting atheists? I just wonder what the Christians would be saying if it were the other way around; an atheist censoring a Christian.

For what it's worth, I appreciate the Christians who saw the censorship for what it was. A capable non-believer showed how unjustified the Christian beliefs are. The only way that type of belief can continue to exist is if it silences inquiring minds, either with apologetics dressed up in pretty bows, or other ways (in this case it happened to be the closing of a thread). At least we can say the actions of silencing non-believers no longer involves violence, right? Baby steps.

Respectfully,

Traverse

atheists are trying to censor christians though. they wanna get in God we trust off the dollar bill, the freedom from religion is trying to do all kinds of censorship right now. they tryed to get people in texas to take down a manger scene. trying to get some statute of Jesus in idk montana i think taken down. one of those northern states. and by your words i think you are trying to stir up some mess. you arent coming here to seek God out in your life. in fact your words revel your purpose. you came here to bash. thats what you are seeking.

edit part: what will it get you?

 

[Mr. Traverse]

Mr. Traverse

There was no censorship. I did not close the thread because of that.

I did not close the thread because I have to protect other Christians, or even have a care about it.

Like any other place, this forum has something called rules. I stated those rules. You don't go to a Tupperware forum and start telling everyone how stupid Tupperware really is. It just does not work that way.

We have no place in this particular forum for Non-Christians to come in, start threads, telling everyone what "THEY" believe.

Other Christians forums may have something like that, this one is dedicated to those seeking God, or those wanting to fellowship and share the Word of God.

Doing these things normally gets you BANNED.

So, instead of flagging warnings, banning people, I closed the threads and directed everyone to post in the Atheist thread. People can still P.M, they can ask questions in the Seeking Jesus thread, and we have a chat box you can type to others in.

I hope you understand what rules are. If I see another Atheist thread that even remotely suggest there is no God, I will not be so understanding.

I sincerely hope this makes sense to you.

Jesus Is Lord.

But I'm saying you wouldn't need that rule anyway if you were so confident in your belief. If your belief was true and justifiable, the notion of someone not being convinced wouldn't frighten and offend you to such a degree that you believe warrants censorship.

Respectfully,

Traverse

 

[Mr. Traverse]

You claimed,

"As an atheist, can I now claim that Christians are persecuting atheists? I just wonder what the Christians would be saying if it were the other way around; an atheist censoring a Christian."

You cannot claim "persecution" for two reasons:

i) Persecution: the systematic mistreatment of an individual or group by another group. The most common forms are religious persecution, ethnic persecution, and political persecution,

An atheist is none of the above categories!

ii) You would need a witness, I saw nothing Mr Traverse.

Hey Fraction, I think we got one here, yeeha.

HAHA. Atheists can't possibly be persecuted by Christians because it doesn't fit what you think persecution "commonly" is? You are funny.

Respectfully,

Traverse

 

[Mr. Traverse]

atheists are trying to censor christians though. they wanna get in God we trust off the dollar bill, the freedom from religion is trying to do all kinds of censorship right now. they tryed to get people in texas to take down a manger scene. trying to get some statute of Jesus in idk montana i think taken down. one of those northern states. and by your words i think you are trying to stir up some mess. you arent coming here to seek God out in your life. in fact your words revel your purpose. you came here to bash. thats what you are seeking.

edit part: what will it get you?

Where and who have I "bashed"? I, like other Christians here, am only recognizing the censorship for what it was. I'm not saying the moderators and administrators of this website can't do it, and I'm not insulting anyone.

Respectfully,

Traverse

 

[s.i.e.]

A capable non-believer showed how unjustified the Christian beliefs are.

No, he didn't, actually. Not in the slightest, in fact. Even so, I never viewed this as a "you win / I lose", or "I win / you lose" proposition. I may even be so bold as to say that I don't imagine BCRE8TVE viewed it that way either.

It was a good conversation. A two-way conversation. You know...relational. At least, that's what I thought. Not a debate that is set up to "win" or "lose", per se.

You may consider removing that fairly large chip on your shoulder, if you want to share anything that you would like other to hear you on, or in order for you to learn anything from others with differing perspectives. Just my opinion...and the advice is free. No charge for that one.

Respectfully,

Uh...yeah. Not so much, Traverse. What's "respectful" about spiking the football in the face?

 

[Mr. Traverse]

No, he didn't, actually. Not in the slightest, in fact. Even so, I never viewed this as a "you win / I lose", or "I win / you lose" proposition. I may even be so bold as to say that I don't imagine BCRE8TVE viewed it that way either.

But the moderators clearly did. The Christians were losing, and so it had to be shut down. Why else would there even be a rule against saying there is no God? If God exists and the belief is true and justified and can be substantiated, then it's difficult to see how anyone would be offended or afraid to such a degree so as to create a rule against someone giving their reasons as to why they don't believe.

It was a good conversation. A two-way conversation. You know...relational. At least, that's what I thought. Not a debate that is set up to "win" or "lose", per se.

It was a great conversation. As an outsider looking in on it, it was clear that the majority of the participants simply wanted to better understand each others position.

You may consider removing that fairly large chip on your shoulder, if you want to share anything that you would like other to hear you on, or in order for you to learn anything from others with differing perspectives. Just my opinion...and the advice is free. No charge for that one.

That "fairly large chip on my shoulder" is shared between the two of us. We clearly don't appreciate censorship of good conversations. I'm glad we're in like mind on that matter.

Respectfully,

Traverse

 

[Kit Carson]

I have always wondered what gives an Atheist the drive to wish to disprove something not believed in??

If you tell me the moon is made of cheese, I will just grin. I am not going to wait on a sale on cheese because it is in great abundance.

I have no concerns myself over discussion with an Atheist. I know for a fact God exists, not only does he exist everything around me is a sign of his creation, and as one matures in faith, God begins to talk to you.

Atheists are good people, and most are highly intelligent. The thing is being good and honest and intelligent is not enough. All it takes is to say I believe in Christ.

But you have to mean it, and that is the paradox.

As for persecution, one says God exists, the other says he does not, is but a simple disagreement.

Now if those guys with the pitchforks come after you and pin you with sharpened tines....that might be persecution. But you see they are gentle and just messing around. That is what Christ does for us, it tempers our way, and no one wishes anyone any harm.

Each of us has a choice. I as one who believes in God and holds him above all things naturally wish all would accept him and give him honor. But even God does not force anyone to do so. So by example we learn to act as he does. To present the truth, and not lose any sleep over it if a person by free will makes their own decision.

God will not let you escape anyway, it may not be today, or even in five years, but one day, he will reveal himself to you beyond any doubt. Meanwhile I simply trust God. To become angry and forceful over some discussion is kinda silly I think.

I am pretty sure the moon is not made of cheese. :shade: hard to see through these glasses though.

Kit

 

[Mr. Traverse]

I have always wondered what gives an Atheist the drive to wish to disprove something not believed in??

hehe. The atheist doesn't have to do anything, because atheism is the most intellectually honest position regarding belief in God. The claim is unsubstantiated. It is not up to the non-believer to prove that big foot doesn't exist, it is up to the believer to prove big foot does exist.

If you tell me the moon is made of cheese, I will just grin. I am not going to wait on a sale on cheese because it is in great abundance.

I have no concerns myself over discussion with an Atheist. I know for a fact God exists, not only does he exist everything around me is a sign of his creation, and as one matures in faith, God begins to talk to you.

Atheists are good people, and most are highly intelligent. The thing is being good and honest and intelligent is not enough. All it takes is to say I believe in Christ.

But you have to mean it, and that is the paradox.

That's the problem. The claims of God's existence are thus far unsubstantiated. I cannot force myself to believe anything. I can't lie to myself, and if God exists and is indeed omniscient, then God would know if I'm sincere in my belief or not.

I do find it disgusting, however, that credulity is rewarded with eternal life and incredulity is punished with eternal torture. Somehow it doesn't seem to "fit the crime", don't you agree?

As for persecution, one says God exists, the other says he does not, is but a simple disagreement.

Now if those guys with the pitchforks come after you and pin you with sharpened tines....that might be persecution. But you see they are gentle and just messing around. That is what Christ does for us, it tempers our way, and no one wishes anyone any harm.

I see my satire was lost on more than just a few Christians. What a shame, because it really was just lighthearted.

I do think an apt question to ask, though, is how the Christians here would react if it were the other way around. Suddenly the claims of persecution, whether satire or not, wouldn't be brushed off so quickly, I think.

Each of us has a choice. I as one who believes in God and holds him above all things naturally wish all would accept him and give him honor. But even God does not force anyone to do so. So by example we learn to act as he does. To present the truth, and not lose any sleep over it if a person by free will makes their own decision.

You speak as if belief is a choice.

God will not let you escape anyway, it may not be today, or even in five years, but one day, he will reveal himself to you beyond any doubt. Meanwhile I simply trust God. To become angry and forceful over some discussion is kinda silly I think.

If God exists, I would hope he does reveal himself to everyone. Otherwise it would seem you're going to heaven to be with a being that chose to let millions, maybe even billions, of people to go without knowledge of him and be tortured for eternity. I don't know which is worse. To, for eternity, serve such a being, or to be tortured for eternity.

Respectfully,

Traverse

 

[s.i.e.]

But the moderators clearly did. The Christians were losing, and so it had to be shut down.

I disagree with that. They had their reasons for shutting it down...some of which I understand better now (although, I still don't entirely agree)...but in my opinion, the "Christians losing" was not part of their decision making in any way.

I think you're misreading the intent of the moderators if you think that.

Why else would there even be a rule against saying there is no God? If God exists and the belief is true and justified and can be substantiated, then it's difficult to see how anyone would be offended or afraid to such a degree so as to create a rule against someone giving their reasons as to why they don't believe.

I agree with you on that one. Hence, part of the reason I started this thread.

It was a great conversation. As an outsider looking in on it, it was clear that the majority of the participants simply wanted to better understand each others position.

I'm glad you saw it that way. I do too. Sorry if I misread your original post, in a way that caused me to believe you saw it more purely as a "win/lose" proposition.

That "fairly large chip on my shoulder" is shared between the two of us. We clearly don't appreciate censorship of good conversations. I'm glad we're in like mind on that matter.

Yes, we do agree on that part.

That said, I've missed the boat, and am sorry for starting this thread, if it causes any fueling-of-the-fire of hostility towards your fellow man (in this case, "fellow" Christian!), or causes you to further dig in your heels on things and be less open towards new ideas.

Sorry if I've played in part in doing that. Grace and peace to you Mr Traverse.

 

[Brother Mike]

Censorship.

Mr. Traverse

Where and who have I "bashed"? I, like other Christians here, am only recognizing the censorship for what it was. I'm not saying the moderators and administrators of this website can't do it, and I'm not insulting anyone.

Mr. Traverse

But the moderators clearly did. The Christians were losing, and so it had to be shut down. Why else would there even be a rule against saying there is no God? If God exists and the belief is true and justified and can be substantiated, then it's difficult to see how anyone would be offended or afraid to such a degree so as to create a rule against someone giving their reasons as to why they don't believe.

Mike

I hope you understand what rules are. If I see another Atheist thread that even remotely suggest there is no God, I will not be so understanding.

I sincerely hope this makes sense to you.

Rule: By Site Admin
Talk Jesus is mainly about two things. Praising Jesus Christ and sharing Truth with others. It is not for speaking against Scripture simply because you are in disbelief. If you disagree with the Word of GOD, please leave unless you came to learn the Truth as told by GOD in Scripture. If you are an unbeliever, it is likely you've been led here by GOD so you may learn about His love for you found in Jesus Christ alone.

Bingo Parlors play Bingo, people just don't break out Monopoly boards and tell all the bingo players how stupid they are for coming to play bingo.

Lamaze Class is for those expecting a Child, they don't go there to learn how to work on Motorcycles.

There are no Cell phones allowed in a Court room, if your cell phone goes off, it is taken, no matter how important the call. That is a rule.

This Christian forum is for those that what to praise Jesus, and share the Word of God which HERE has been established at Truth by the one paying for all this. It's his forums, his rules.

To be a moderator here, We have to enforce whatever rule the Site Admin has put forth. It does not matter if we agree, or disagree with the rule. If I do not wish to follow the Site Owners Rules, then I will be asked to leave or forced to leave.

Mr. Traverse, after reading your post after mine, I can only assume you have issues with comprehension. You claim to be intelligent, but I question your ability understand things.

There are other Christian forums that allow you to defend your belief that there is no God. This forum states that God is real, and God's Word is true. Other Christian forums have different rules they have established.

You also ignore the fact that Scripture must be provided when making a point. Rule 7.

Because I feel for you, I have let that constantly slide, but even those that don't know God, or those that claim there is no God have the ability to understand what a rule is.

This is a verbal warning only for your continued questioning the rules laid out in this forum. You should have read the rules, understood them before even posting.

Mike.

 

[Fraction]

You know.... I am probably one of the least expected people on here to say this but....

I agree with Brother Mike. It IS a site rule, and rules are there for a reason. Even though I support Becreative and his posts, sometimes they just broke the rules.

-cough-

Yeah... that's all. lol

 

[David777]

Wait a second.

Christianity is concerned with the revelation of God to man.

God met Abraham, God met Moses, God met Saul.

The key word is "revelation".

Revelation is not a claim, nor is it evidence.

It is simply the "I AM" that Moses collided with.

Christians never lose, how can they lose.

Christians never had it in the first place!

Christians only have a revelation from God.

Atheists are the ones in the black box lacking input.

Atheists are the ones without the revelation.

 

[David777]

Revelation.

Revelation is the input required by the black box (man).

"The light shone in the darkness." using Isaiah.

The light is the revelation, the revelation of what? JESUS CHRIST.

This is not evidence, this is not a neat list of points.

This is the eyes being opened to that which is far beyond our understanding.

This is not appreciated by the flesh, rationality, logic.

This is Spiritual, from above, the input, the LOGOS.

Our human mind is the feeble darkness.

 

[David777]

He ya Fraction.

Fraction grab ya pitch fork boy, wees got us another one here.

 

[Kit Carson]

hehe. The atheist doesn't have to do anything, because atheism is the most intellectually honest position regarding belief in God. The claim is unsubstantiated. It is not up to the non-believer to prove that big foot doesn't exist, it is up to the believer to prove big foot does exist.

That's the problem. The claims of God's existence are thus far unsubstantiated. I cannot force myself to believe anything. I can't lie to myself, and if God exists and is indeed omniscient, then God would know if I'm sincere in my belief or not.

I do find it disgusting, however, that credulity is rewarded with eternal life and incredulity is punished with eternal torture. Somehow it doesn't seem to "fit the crime", don't you agree?

I see my satire was lost on more than just a few Christians. What a shame, because it really was just lighthearted.

I do think an apt question to ask, though, is how the Christians here would react if it were the other way around. Suddenly the claims of persecution, whether satire or not, wouldn't be brushed off so quickly, I think.

You speak as if belief is a choice.

If God exists, I would hope he does reveal himself to everyone. Otherwise it would seem you're going to heaven to be with a being that chose to let millions, maybe even billions, of people to go without knowledge of him and be tortured for eternity. I don't know which is worse. To, for eternity, serve such a being, or to be tortured for eternity.

Respectfully,

Traverse

Good Evening:

Yes it is by free will and choice to follow God. Just how does one fully realize there is a God?? In my case I have always loved the outdoors and nature, to go fishing and I also work outside most of the time. I grow a garden each year and so I am exposed to the creation of God. So long ago I realized God created all things. But there was a time I did not want to accept his will either. I was just as stubborn as anyone , but he kept pulling at me. Now I am grateful that he did.
It is hard for me to explain it, it has to happen to you. The effects of Gods spirit and how it comes to a person has to be experienced.

So may God grant you the Grace and Reveal himself to you one day soon.

Meanwhile as far as I am concerned you are in the friend department. I have no fuss with a non believer, you see I used to be one too.........

As for that Bigfoot , I am pretty sure he does not exist. I have seen lots of plaster footprints and fuzzy photos and a man in an ape suit.
We have a lizard man in South Carolina, he only shows up on warm summer moonlit nights, but so far no one has seen him either, but he exists........

One day the light bulb will come on. The unseen that is invented by man is not, the unseen that is of God is very real. It is spirit, not man made.

Kit

 

[David777]

Dear Mr Traverse.

You said,

If God exists, I would hope he does reveal himself to everyone. Otherwise it would seem you're going to heaven to be with a being that chose to let millions, maybe even billions, of people to go without knowledge of him and be tortured for eternity. I don't know which is worse. To, for eternity, serve such a being, or to be tortured for eternity.

Interesting reply, i thought that Jesus Christ died for everyone.

This is what the Bible says, people resist the revelation Mr Traverse.

Just as you are resisting.

It is not God's wish that any perish!

God has sent His Son to die for us, you need to join us and help us reach the rest.

 

[Kit Carson]

To serve such a being........those words caused me to realize something of great importance. Yes to serve such a being.

Looking back long ago, that was my deal too. I looked at God as others conveyed him to me. I looked at other people and they were not real good examples, and I let the world teach me about God. I listened to all the bad things of God told by people who also refused to accept the will of God. So I would not accept because I listened to the world and other people.

So I just learned the reason. It just smacked me upside the head. Lol!
Many do not accept God as they put their will above Gods. They view God through the eyes of the world. They allow others to explain God to them.

So only when you do bow your will to God , will he reveal himself. Only when you do seek him will he reveal himself. When you accept God then the explanation of the spiritual side becomes known. The reasons for all the things in the world that we cannot explain become clear. The crime, the hardships, the trials, all these things become very clear and easy to understand.

God is a spiritual being and the creator. He holds all the keys to creation and to life. It is so hard for many to simply accept that yes there is a great power and yes you do have to follow God to have eternal life.

The thing is the requirements are very small. Just to acknowledge God, to let him teach you to live correctly and it becomes something desired, not something to resist.

God is the only answer to mans wish to live. God and his way and knowledge pave the way to peace and life. In Gods way, not our human way.

We humans are so smart we are dumb. We allow our own will an way to explain all things. Then one day we realize there is only one way to explain it all.

But yes we do have to bow our will to God. It is a simple request and the reward is eternal life, and the inner peace and knowledge of the meaning of life.

Kit