When pastors disagree with the bible

[farout]

When a pastor makes a public statement that disagrees with the Bible why do people still stand by him? Recently a pastor of a large church in Texas said he does not condemn homosexual marriage. A genuine born again conservative Christian won't agree with homosexual marriage.

How can Christians stand with a pastor who says such statements that disagree with Scripture? What should genuine Christian do to challenge such statements?

Do these false preachers have any right to be allowed to participate in national gatherings of conservative Christian leaders? Sometimes we see these false teachers associate with other Christian leaders without being invited. The National Prayer Breakfast is one example. No one there has any control of who is seen with someone else. Yet being seen with conservative Christian leaders has credibility with some new Christians or unbeliever's.

What do you think?

 

[B-A-C]

The trouble with many pastors (I suspect the majority) is that they are Biblically ignorant. They don't know scripture.
The second problem, is the same one talkJesus has. Often people twist scripture to support their point of view. Scriptures are often interpreted wrongly.
What is false doctrine to one person is gospel to another. Our national leaders don't have a clue about the Bible or Jesus. That's obvious from the laws they are making everyday.
In fact the word "Christian" has come to mean someone who vaguely believes in God. From your own post above you differentiate using the term "conservative Christian".
Yet, shouldn't all Christians believe the same thing? It's obvious from the many posts here, many agree on very little. Some say the Bible doesn't apply to them. Other's say the
Bible is full of errors. Many have a vastly different world view.

My personal opinion is that not only should they not participate in national gatherings, (they shouldn't even have a church for that matter) but people want to have their ears tickled. ( 2 Tim 4:3; )
Teachers of false doctrine shouldn't be allowed to post messages here on TJ. Yet there are so many different doctrines, even from moderators, that I suspect the majority of people
looking for answers here are more confused than ever.

The mantra here seems to be all doctrines are accepted. Yet the Bible says to refute, rebuke, correct, defend the gospel. It say those who teach will be held to a higher standard of judgement. ( James 3:1; )

 

[HarpT]

The trouble with many pastors (I suspect the majority) is that they are Biblically ignorant. They don't know scripture.
The second problem, is the same one talkJesus has. Often people twist scripture to support their point of view. Scriptures are often interpreted wrongly.
What is false doctrine to one person is gospel to another. Our national leaders don't have a clue about the Bible or Jesus. That's obvious from the laws they are making everyday.
In fact the word "Christian" has come to mean someone who vaguely believes in God. From your own post above you differentiate using the term "conservative Christian".
Yet, shouldn't all Christians believe the same thing? It's obvious from the many posts here, many agree on very little. Some say the Bible doesn't apply to them. Other's say the
Bible is full of errors. Many have a vastly different world view.

My personal opinion is that not only should they not participate in national gatherings, (they shouldn't even have a church for that matter) but people want to have their ears tickled. ( 2 Tim 4:3; )
Teachers of false doctrine shouldn't be allowed to post messages here on TJ. Yet there are so many different doctrines, even from moderators, that I suspect the majority of people
looking for answers here are more confused than ever.

The mantra here seems to be all doctrines are accepted. Yet the Bible says to refute, rebuke, correct, defend the gospel. It say those who teach will be held to a higher standard of judgement. ( James 3:1; )

Well, it's amazing that you're allowed to post here. Maybe if we all just listened to you everything would be better? Maybe you can find a more exclusive forum that will cater to your particular opinion and emotional indiscretion? If you do, make sure and report back! No, really though. I think (you judge the truth for yourself) it's obvious that if a "Pastor" deviates from the Word of God then he is not the representative of Christ and so is as one who doesn't enter the sheepfold through the Gate (John 10:1-5.) However, we need not fear such things because God's people hear His voice and will not follow another (John 10:6-9.) It is impossible to contradict God and therefore disagreeing with His Word is of no consequence, at least not for those of us who believe it (John 10:10-11.) Those who are not sincere in the Lord can obviously not carry on with Him in faith (John 10:12-13.) Ultimately, we are not obligated toward action because someone misrepresents the Word of God. It's not your salvation he's toying with, but his own. Stand your ground and continue to take opportunity as the Lord provides it to witness the truth of His Word. These things shouldn't shake you. Because believe me, it's gonna get much worse (John 10:14-15!)

"Stand strong in the Lord and in the power of His might."

 

[amadeus2]

My personal opinion is that not only should they not participate in national gatherings, (they shouldn't even have a church for that matter) but people want to have their ears tickled. ( 2 Tim 4:3; )
Teachers of false doctrine shouldn't be allowed to post messages here on TJ. Yet there are so many different doctrines, even from moderators, that I suspect the majority of people here looking for answers here are more confused than ever.

Is it the time of the harvest and are you one of the reapers?

So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?

He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?

But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.

Let both grow together until the harvest and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn." Matt 13:27-30

 

[HarpT]

Is it the time of the harvest and are you one of the reapers?

So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?

He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?

But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.

Let both grow together until the harvest and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn." Matt 13:27-30

I am glad you pointed that out. This is the problem we have with judging one another. It is an attempt to pull out "the tares" (and some of them really are) before the time is due. To remain faithful one must exercise patience rather than think he has a better idea for how things should be done. God has made no mistakes! His plan is perfect!

 

[amadeus2]

I am glad you pointed that out. This is the problem we have with judging one another. It is an attempt to pull out "the tares" (and some of them really are) before the time is due. To remain faithful one must exercise patience rather than think he has a better idea for how things should be done. God has made no mistakes! His plan is perfect!

It may be that some "tares" will become "wheat" or that some "goats" may become "sheep". What were we before God began to clean us up? Remember also that in the ark built by Noah, a number of unclean and clean beasts were saved along with the 8 of Noah's family. Does that relate also to this question? Give God the glory!

 

[Chad]

You can't be surprised really.

“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

Matthew 7:15-20

 

[HarpT]

"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us they would have no doubt continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us."

1 John 3:23 (KJV)

 

[eddieb]

I have actually dealt with a pastor preaching something that wasn't parallel with the Word of God many many times. I have always been careful as to what i hear preached with my ear and allow it to drop into my heart. I double check, taking notes during the sermon and go read up on it later. i reccomend this because sometimes a human can say something and not mean to be misleading, just pure accident. I know i have done that at least once. I have actually prayed "God, show me the truth, this man preaching may be telling me something not true, but you cant lie God, show me truth or i may never know it." Since then several times during a sermon my spirit cringed and I had unction to open my bible, and what do you know, I opened right up to scripture that said the complete oppisite of what was being preached. You basicly have a few choices. Pick another church to attend or confront the pastor. I recommend humbly and if possible in private. If the pastor won't stand on The Word Of God, if they wont humble themselves and say they were not correct, then you need to pick another church. If you curse the part you curse the whole. But most importantly, pray for them that God would show them the truth.
However preachers being liberal beyond what God says is sin and being open about it, well, just pray thier eyes be opened to the truth and avoid them. You have to just trust God on his word that says... And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.(john 10:28) I agree its an outrage, but there has always been snakes in the church. nothing new under the sun.

edit: if someone is seeking the truth, God will show them. He tends to be liberal that way, you know giving.

 

[Rev T.S.Perkins]

gonna be a lot more of this type of minister as we get closer to Christs return .! tickle the ears they say for the sake of numbers and money ./Matt 26;.but i tell you this and more shall come to pass before the Lords return ,and i tell you this not to discourage but to Give hope that as you see these things look to the heavens for our Savior draws close ....we are about to see this world turn on its self and ministers turn away from God and His Holy word more and more ..PLEASE KEEP YOURE HANDS AND FEET INSIDE THE RIDE AT ALL TIMES..Brothers and sisters i tell you we have not began to see the full scale perversion this world is capable of and it will be the worlds downfall ....seekers of self pleasure and liars to all who will listen..... Rev

 

[B-A-C]

"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us they would have no doubt continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us."

1 John 3:23 (KJV)

It's possible this isn't 1 Jn 3:23; but rather 1 Jn 2:19;

 

[B-A-C]

Is it the time of the harvest and are you one of the reapers?

So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?

He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?

But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.

Let both grow together until the harvest and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn." Matt 13:27-30

Gal 2:4; But it was because of the false brethren secretly brought in, who had sneaked in to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, in order to bring us into bondage.
Gal 2:5; But we did not yield in subjection to them for even an hour, so that the truth of the gospel would remain with you.

Php 1:16; the latter do it out of love, knowing that I am appointed for the defense of the gospel;

2 Tim; 4:2 preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction.

2 Tim 2:24; The Lord's bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged,
2 Tim 2:25; with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth,
2 Tim 2:26; and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will.

Gathering up the tares is one thing. Supporting false teachings is another. If you allow people to do these things, you're just as guilty as they are.
Separating the tares and wheat is God's job. Defending the Gospel, reproving and correcting others is ours.

Rom 1:32; Although they know God's judgment that those who do such things deserve to die, they not only do these things but also approve of others who do them.

 

[amadeus2]

Gal 2:4; But it was because of the false brethren secretly brought in, who had sneaked in to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, in order to bring us into bondage.

Gathering up the tares is one thing. Supporting false teachings is another. If you allow people to do these things, you're just as guilty as they are.
Separating the tares and wheat is God's job. Defending the Gospel, reproving and correcting others is ours.

Jesus always had the right answer to every question. He always recognized who to rebuke and who to heal. He was silent when it was time to be silent. He spoke when it was time to speak.

When we hear Him then we must obey, but when two men say they hear him but they butt heads with conflicting doctrines, shall they take up their weapons and fight or should they wait upon the Lord? Elijah was hearing from God, but the people did not know that. They accepted his terms when he suggested that both he and the false prophets of Baal call for fire to consume their sacrifice. Jesus provided the answer for us and it was not to be done argument or by logic...


It is by their fruits we are to know them. Is this is a guide for the individual to know how to deal or not deal with them or is it a license correct them? Maybe we had better leave it God's hands, unless you are certain you alone among men always have more of God's truth than those with whom you might disagree.

 

[Rev T.S.Perkins]

seems to me i remember a story of the same kind that resulted in satan being cast down because he thought He knew better than God and tried to exalt his own opinions over Gods ..Lean not to your own understanding is the word on this ..if you dissagree with Gods word than you dont need to be preaching it ...if youre sitting in a body that has that kind of an issues i encourage you first to pray for the pastor that God will awaken him and use him again ...! second pray and ask God what to do and why you are there ,,,many ive heard say HE DOSENT PREACH THE WORD RIGHT. ILL GO OVER HERE .Church hopping is just as dangerious to youre soul ..if you dont anchor in somewhere you will drift with the tides and be at the mercy of any old word that tickles youre ears ,,sitting under the word of truth is never easy and niether is preaching it to thsoe who would rather be left alone ..! do as the Lord leads and you cant Go wrong ...Pray and seek first then jump if God says so .! Imho ,,,,Rev

 

[amadeus2]

Lean not to your own understanding is the word on this ..if you dissagree with Gods word than you dont need to be preaching it ...if youre sitting in a body that has that kind of an issues i encourage you first to pray for the pastor that God will awaken him and use him again ...! second pray and ask God what to do and why you are there ,,,many ive heard say HE DOSENT PREACH THE WORD RIGHT. ILL GO OVER HERE .Church hopping is just as dangerious to youre soul ..if you dont anchor in somewhere you will drift with the tides and be at the mercy of any old word that tickles youre ears ,,sitting under the word of truth is never easy and niether is preaching it to thsoe who would rather be left alone ..! do as the Lord leads and you cant Go wrong ...Pray and seek first then jump if God says so .! Imho ,,,,Rev

There are lots of voices speaking to us, but if He really is our Lord...? Should we not then come to know His voice, and when we do, then we must obey what He says to us.

 

[Rev T.S.Perkins]

Yes His sheep should know His voice ; and obey even if it means going against what we think is a right move , Gods people have been placed for a day such as this and we don't always know why but have to trust that His ways are higher than our ways and bloom where we are planted for a season such as is appointed before The Lord ,,, Rev

 

[brakelite]

Seems that those responding to this thread have forgotten the authority of scripture. If we disagree on the meaning of a certain portion of scripture is it really our first instinct to go with 'the spirit'...our feelings and emotions? Please folks, we are surely a little more mature than that. Have we forgotten the authority of scripture? Does not scripture explain scripture? Let me allow you into a well known secret. To know the Master's voice....to follow and hear what the shepherd is saying ...to ensure one doesn't get led astray...is as you have said, to know His voice...but His voice good folk is His Word! The scriptures are our foundation. The scripture, only the scripture. You start listening to voices outside of the scripture you will end up following pastors to places like Guyana and drinking soda pop as a sleeping aid.

 

[B-A-C]

Yes His sheep should know His voice ; and obey even if it means going against what we think is a right move , Gods people have been placed for a day such as this and we don't always know why but have to trust that His ways are higher than our ways and bloom where we are planted for a season such as is appointed before The Lord ,,, Rev

No where in the Bible does it say a sheep will always stay a sheep, in fact it says many will be led astray, some will fall away, some will be grafted out, some will be planted in shallow soil, and some will turn aside to follow satan, and some will run out of oil for their lamps.

 

[amadeus2]

Seems that those responding to this thread have forgotten the authority of scripture. If we disagree on the meaning of a certain portion of scripture is it really our first instinct to go with 'the spirit'...our feelings and emotions? Please folks, we are surely a little more mature than that. Have we forgotten the authority of scripture? Does not scripture explain scripture? Let me allow you into a well known secret. To know the Master's voice....to follow and hear what the shepherd is saying ...to ensure one doesn't get led astray...is as you have said, to know His voice...but His voice good folk is His Word! The scriptures are our foundation. The scripture, only the scripture. You start listening to voices outside of the scripture you will end up following pastors to places like Guyana and drinking soda pop as a sleeping aid.

Many people base their beliefs on scripture and yet disagree with each other:

"Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life." II Cor 3:6

We must both consume the raw material (scripture) and have it quickened (brought to Life) within us by the Spirit. The Bible alone can be problem. Even an atheist can study the Bible or memorize it. People miss out by too soon and/or too often quenching the Life bringing Spirit. The old man still lives and still seeks to again have the dominion in men. When we quench the Holy Spirit in us, are we not yielding to the 'old man'?

 

[HarpT]

The Bible plainly says no fornicator, etc. shall enter the Kingdom of God. This does include homosexuals. Therefore, it is easy to see that no judgment is necessary to produce the right conclusion. God has already made the judgment and there is no way to contradict Him. The fact that there are "preachers" approving behavior which will result in those practicing it being thrust into hell shows that they are not sent from God. What they preach is not the Word of God, but the Word of man masked as though it were conceivably "Christian." This is heresy and apostasy. Just as the Bible says will come.

The rational is that God loves them anyway and not to condemn them. But when you don't condemn their behavior you are condemning them! It is not okay for them to be accepted according to their sin, but those who enter into the sheepfold of Christ must do so being separated from their sin. A man of God cannot preside over a ritual which is contrary to God's will, desire and commandments. Just because someone has the credentials given to him by some man made organization claiming to be "the church" doesn't make him a minister of God.

My only point in referencing the passage in John 10 is that those who really know God aren't going to be deceived or turned away by any of this. We know His voice and will not follow any other.