When pastors disagree with the bible

[HarpT]

No where in the Bible does it say a sheep will always stay a sheep, in fact it says many will be led astray, some will fall away, some will be grafted out, some will be planted in shallow soil, and some will turn aside to follow satan, and some will run out of oil for their lamps.

I don't think it says anything about being "grafted out." It says we may be "grafted in" but not to boast against the branches (seed of David.) It also doesn't say that any of us per say will be "planted in shallow soil," but that our hearts may be shallow soil where the Word of God cannot fall in deep enough to take root. The solution to this is to plow the soil so that it will take the seed properly. Which is where many fall away.

(see Mark 4:1-20; Rom. 11:17-21)

 

[Rev T.S.Perkins]

You forgot as a dog returns to his vomit so does a fool return to his folly. Now let me add that God doesn't judge us OUR ACTIONS AND OUR WORDS DO . What we speak and how we behave as Christians is our down fall .and not to Christs glory most times .we Are judged sinners by nature of our flesh from birth and until we accept Christ there is no good thing in us . That tells me God dosent judge us our own actions and words do until we walk and speak as Christ .i know a lot of Christians that hurt the gospel due to " they aren't righteous as we are , what have I to do with them " mentality , there is room in heaven for all ,if as in first John 1:9 we pray and ask God to forgive our sins and turn from our ways . He removes sins from us and throws them from the east to the west never to return to us ( even in judgement) ,then we become new creations before God , old things pass away ( original sins) all things become new ( Christ likeness ) no longer goats but sheep with one Shepard .....Rev

 

[brakelite]

Many people base their beliefs on scripture and yet disagree with each other:

"Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life." II Cor 3:6

We must both consume the raw material (scripture) and have it quickened (brought to Life) within us by the Spirit. The Bible alone can be problem. Even an atheist can study the Bible or memorize it. People miss out by too soon and/or too often quenching the Life bringing Spirit. The old man still lives and still seeks to again have the dominion in men. When we quench the Holy Spirit in us, are we not yielding to the 'old man'?

I wholeheartedly agree with the above. Certainly, the Holy Spirit brings to every sincere seeker of truth enlightenment and understanding. However, there is much disagreement on what the 'spirit' is saying at any given time. What to do in such cases? Refer to the written word. The Bible is the benchmark, the final authority. And the Holy Spirit will always, I repeat always, agree with the written word.
I could give several examples where the majority, yes the majority, of Christendom has taken a few certain scriptures, developed a doctrine which has grown and evolved in such a manner as to condemn any who disagree with it, yet have done so despite the clear teaching of the rest of scripture.

 

[Asanima]

When a pastor makes a public statement that disagrees with the Bible why do people still stand by him? Recently a pastor of a large church in Texas said he does not condemn homosexual marriage. A genuine born again conservative Christian won't agree with homosexual marriage.

How can Christians stand with a pastor who says such statements that disagree with Scripture? What should genuine Christian do to challenge such statements?

Do these false preachers have any right to be allowed to participate in national gatherings of conservative Christian leaders? Sometimes we see these false teachers associate with other Christian leaders without being invited. The National Prayer Breakfast is one example. No one there has any control of who is seen with someone else. Yet being seen with conservative Christian leaders has credibility with some new Christians or unbeliever's.

What do you think?

Isn this the whole reason why so many sects of christianity exists?

I mean, i was discussing something similar with an Eastern orthodox christian who believed and outright told me that only orthodox christianity is "real" christianity, and that the new testament is against people going off from orthodoxy to form a new church along with whatever belief they want to believe in, citing sects like Protestantism and almost all the churches in the US as examples.

 

[Rev T.S.Perkins]

Again i say God dosent condem , our Actions and words condem us .Gods word offers a way above and beyond our actions and words IF we follow and obey as the word says . Yes homosexuals ,fornicators , murders and the such all have a place in heaven ( 1 john 1:9 if we pray and ask God to forgive us and then turn from our wicked ways God is faithfull and just to forgive us our sins and cast them as far as the east to the west never to return to us ) only if they turn from thier ways and seek The Lord in thier lives ! God would that no one go to hell and provided a way out if we turn to God and His ways in our lives ...Rev

 

[B-A-C]

Again i say God dosent condem , our Actions and words condem us .Gods word offers a way above and beyond our actions and words IF we follow and obey as the word says . Yes homosexuals ,fornicators , murders and the such all have a place in heaven ( 1 john 1:9 if we pray and ask God to forgive us and then turn from our wicked ways God is faithfull and just to forgive us our sins and cast them as far as the east to the west never to return to us ) only if they turn from thier ways and seek The Lord in thier lives ! God would that no one go to hell and provided a way out if we turn to God and His ways in our lives ...Rev

Well, it is God that judges all men. Keys to your post above... follow and obey, turn from our wicked ways (also known as repentance). Yes God forgives!!
But confession and repentance are required. (1 Jn 1:9; as you posted above ) will there be homosexuals in heaven? Well they won't be homosexuals once they get there.
But perhaps some people who struggle with it will make it to heaven, this is much different from those who deny it is a sin and continue to defy God with "gay PRIDE".

 

[Rev T.S.Perkins]

Agreed ,if they living an un Godly life they will have no part in heaven but judgement ,but if they turn thier hearts towards God and from there ungodly ways yes there is a place for all , God would have that no one see hell but its thier choice ! Just to split hairs there is a difference between judgement and condemnation. One is an eternal condition ( judgement from God ) but condemnation is an Internal condition that can be changed by us and our willingness to turn from condemning ways !.Rev

 

[farout]

Isn this the whole reason why so many sects of christianity exists?

I mean, i was discussing something similar with an Eastern orthodox christian who believed and outright told me that only orthodox christianity is "real" christianity, and that the new testament is against people going off from orthodoxy to form a new church along with whatever belief they want to believe in, citing sects like Protestantism and almost all the churches in the US as examples.

Great point ! The Reformation and Martin Luther was God freeing us from Christianity in the hands of men with power of "religion", not true Christianity, gone wrong. There is a place called hell for those who distort the Gospel for personal gain.

 

[Asanima]

Great point ! The Reformation and Martin Luther was God freeing us from Christianity in the hands of men with power of "religion", not true Christianity, gone wrong. There is a place called hell for those who distort the Gospel for personal gain.

If you agree with that, then i dont really see how you can distinguish between an orthodox christian looking at a protestant as a person who makes a public statement or stance that disagrees with the bible, and a conservative christian looking at a pastor who makes a public statement about not condemning gay marriage.

I mean, this is what men in good conscience and an honest heart, do. They speak out against what they truly believe to be either a misinterpretation or a contextual belief. I'm sure there were many people in the underground railroad, who were freeing slaves, and were christian, despite the fact that the bible clearly states that you mustn't help slaves disobey their masters.

 

[RJ]

Pleas no offense to anyone but I have seen this many times:

There are many wonderful pastors out there, steep in the word of God! But,some pastors did't go to Seminary, they went to Cemetery!

 

[brakelite]

Again i say God dosent condem , our Actions and words condem us .Gods word offers a way above and beyond our actions and words IF we follow and obey as the word says . Yes homosexuals ,fornicators , murders and the such all have a place in heaven ( 1 john 1:9 if we pray and ask God to forgive us and then turn from our wicked ways God is faithfull and just to forgive us our sins and cast them as far as the east to the west never to return to us ) only if they turn from thier ways and seek The Lord in thier lives ! God would that no one go to hell and provided a way out if we turn to God and His ways in our lives ...Rev

Hi Rev. Not wanting to nitpick, but you did omit a very important part of the quote from 1John 1:9. The promise is as you said, we would be forgiven, but God doesn't stop there. God certainly accepts sinners, but never leaves them in that position. His promise, (and we must have the faith to appropriate it) is that He will "cleanse us from all unrighteousness". Thus for the homosexual, for the drug addict, for the habitual thief, the gospel has hope. The gospel has real answers for those desperate for change...desperate for a new life. The good news, no, the great news is that no-one needs to wait until heaven for a new life...it is freely available to all right now.