When Will God Judge His House First?

[Jonathan_Gale]

You should consider that it is michael the archangel that is restraining the antichrist, and he will take his seat with the believers to make war against it once it is released on the earth. The believers will be making war against the enemy, spiritually and perhaps physically on the earth. unless of course, you are appointed to the sword, or famine, or captivity. traditionally those verses have been interpreted to mean that the restrainer would leave, sit down, etc.. vacating their place and letting the evil one run amock. but this isn't really what Daniel was saying if you are willing to reconsider the interpretation of the hebrew.

You can easily find youtube vids and text supporting this interpretation. the Holy Spirit never leaves... it is the Spirit of God, there is nowhere it isn't... its just either with you or against you, or holding back from destroying those who are perishing (and as such the unbeliever doesn't sense its presence)

That is too far of a stretch, for what purpose do you bring archangel Michael into the picture? Actually, this restraining power works through individual conscience, family, church all the way up to the government. Yes, believe it or not, it is stated in Rom. 13 that the governing authority is designed to punish evil; if one government becomes so corrupt that it punishes good and rewards evil, then God uses other governments to punish it. That's exactly why God rendered ancient Israel to Assyria and Judah to Babylon as His judgement to Israel. However, in the end, all governments will unite as one and surrender their power to Satan, and they'll all punish good and reward evil, just as prophesied in Rev. 17, then this mechanism will no longer work, it would be another Tower of Babel scenario, and Christ will return and judge them in person.

We're very close to it, you know, the church age is coming to an end. If you apply the millenialist view of one day for a thousand years (2 Pt. 3:8), and you count from the baptism of Jesus at age 30, then it would be in the next decade.

 

[GodB4Us]

There is only one rapture it's when Jesus returns

There is a resurrection of O.T. saints and the abiding disciples of the N.T. saints, living & dead at the rapture event for when they meet Jesus in the air as the Bridegroom to be forever with the Lord in Heaven for the Marriage Supper of the Lamb. Luke 13:24-30 & 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

There is a resurrection of left behind saints and former believers as well as new believers that have died after the rapture and for the duration of the great tribulation as that resurrection will take place AFTER the great tribulation for when Jesus is already on earth having defeated the world's armies marching unto Jerusalem and having placed Satan in the pit for a thousand years per Revelation 20:1-6 Jesus is not meeting those saints in the air but He is already on earth.

So Biblically, there is no rapture of meeting the Lord in the air after the great tribulation but another resurrection after Satan is in the pit for a thousand years. The resurrection after the great tribulation was to happen "FIRST" before the rest of the dead are resurrected later on at the Great White Throne Judgment as explained in Revelation 20:5 thus not meaning the only first resurrection since they are not meeting Jesus in the air.

That is why Jesus is warning believers now in the time He describes for when they can be caught unaware during the tribulation of our days for when many are falling away from the faith now or/& loving this life more to not want to leave it. Luke 14:15-24.

There is an escape from what is coming for why saved believers had best be praying for His help to be ready to go as found abiding in Him as well as being willing to go for when He comes as the Bridegroom. Luke 21:33-36

 

[GodB4Us]

First of all, I believe Revelation is not written in chronological order, from chapter 12 to 19 is a recap of end times events from another perspective. The Great Tribulation only refers to the 7 trumpets/bowls, by then all unbelievers will be marked. If you’re still alive by then, you’re probably deceived and marked, since anybody who refuses to take it will be economically sanctioned and ultimately be killed. Jesus warned that even the elect could be deceived, so get ready and stay frosty.

Although you can contend for Revelation not being in chronological order and I agree, but Revelation 20 th chapter when read in context, there has to be a chronological order in that chapter from the beginning of that chapter.

So Biblically, there is no rapture of meeting the Lord in the air after the great tribulation but another resurrection after Satan is in the pit for a thousand years. The resurrection after the great tribulation was to happen "FIRST" before the rest of the dead are resurrected later on at the Great White Throne Judgment as explained in Revelation 20:5 thus not meaning the only first resurrection since they are not meeting Jesus in the air.

There is a resurrection of O.T. saints and the abiding disciples of the N.T. saints, living & dead at the rapture event for when they meet Jesus in the air as the Bridegroom to be forever with the Lord in Heaven for the Marriage Supper of the Lamb. Luke 13:24-30 & 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

That is why Jesus is warning believers now in the time He describes for when they can be caught unaware during the tribulation of our days for when many are falling away from the faith now or/& loving this life more to not want to leave it. Luke 14:15-24.

There is an escape from what is coming for why saved believers had best be praying for His help to be ready to go as found abiding in Him as well as being willing to go for when He comes as the Bridegroom. Luke 21:33-36

There is a resurrection of left behind saints and former believers as well as new believers that have died after the rapture and for the duration of the great tribulation as that resurrection will take place AFTER the great tribulation for when Jesus is already on earth having defeated the world's armies marching unto Jerusalem and having placed Satan in the pit for a thousand years per Revelation 20:1-6 Jesus is not meeting those saints in the air but He is already on earth.

 

[GodB4Us]

I'm been taught that based on Jn. 3:16-17, there're only the saints and the ain'ts, you're either saved or not, but that's not the whole picture. The parable of the sower reveals that there're the rocky soil and thorny soil in between, which, as Jesus later explained, are the shallow hearts and the divided hearts. Those are the vast majority of Christians, you and I may be included. Among the seven churches, Smyrna and Philladelphia are in stark contrast to these two kinds of soil, while the other five have all fallen into these two categories. I'm not gonna argue with you on semantics, you decide by your own terminology whether they are saved or not. Whether we are saved or not.

If the other 5 churches were not saved, Jesus would not be addressing them as His own to be ready as His disciple or else. You cannot be cut off from the vine unless you were part of the vine and it is when saved believers stop abiding in him & His words as His disciples for why He would cut them off John 15:1-8 for when He comes as the Bridegroom, disqualifying them from attending the Marriage Supper of the Lamb for being in iniquity. 1 Corinthians 5:4-11 <--- what the church is supposed to do by excommunication is what the Lord will do literally at the rapture event since there is a wedding reception but the foolish left behind are still of the kingdom of heaven per Matthew 25:1-13

Throughout history, there's always a time window of grace, a middle ground for the rocky soil and thorny soil to repent, but this middle ground is shrinking during trials and tribulations - like nowadays. At the end, it would be the harvest time, then the wheat will be gathered into barn and the tares thrown into fire.

That fire is the one Jesus sends on earth, see verse 49 in Luke 12:40-49, to burn up a third of the earth in Revelation 8:7 after judging the House of God by way of Babylon 1 Peter 4:17 & Revelation 18:1-24 for why USA and the entire western hemisphere is burned up to set the stage for the coming New World Order & the great tribulation for the rest of the world. That is a judgment that has to come first on the House of God for why the times of the Gentiles has come to an end for the 144,000 witnesses that were Jews will continue with the dispensation of the gospel after the rapture, for the duration of the great tribulation.

 

[GodB4Us]

again, they weren't breaking the sabbath.
they were breaking the additional safeguards that the pharisees had added to the law.
Jesus then speaks some words to show them that they are in error. they don't listen, as usual, but they have no reply because they know they are wrong.

Again, you are avoiding how Jesus was defending His disciples since they were not in the temple but because He was with them for why they were guiltless for breaking the sabbath.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Although you can contend for Revelation not being in chronological order and I agree, but Revelation 20 th chapter when read in context, there has to be a chronological order in that chapter from the beginning of that chapter.

So Biblically, there is no rapture of meeting the Lord in the air after the great tribulation but another resurrection after Satan is in the pit for a thousand years. The resurrection after the great tribulation was to happen "FIRST" before the rest of the dead are resurrected later on at the Great White Throne Judgment as explained in Revelation 20:5 thus not meaning the only first resurrection since they are not meeting Jesus in the air.

There is a resurrection of O.T. saints and the abiding disciples of the N.T. saints, living & dead at the rapture event for when they meet Jesus in the air as the Bridegroom to be forever with the Lord in Heaven for the Marriage Supper of the Lamb. Luke 13:24-30 & 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

That is why Jesus is warning believers now in the time He describes for when they can be caught unaware during the tribulation of our days for when many are falling away from the faith now or/& loving this life more to not want to leave it. Luke 14:15-24.

There is an escape from what is coming for why saved believers had best be praying for His help to be ready to go as found abiding in Him as well as being willing to go for when He comes as the Bridegroom. Luke 21:33-36

There is a resurrection of left behind saints and former believers as well as new believers that have died after the rapture and for the duration of the great tribulation as that resurrection will take place AFTER the great tribulation for when Jesus is already on earth having defeated the world's armies marching unto Jerusalem and having placed Satan in the pit for a thousand years per Revelation 20:1-6 Jesus is not meeting those saints in the air but He is already on earth.

I just wanna add that meeting Jesus in the air is talking about Jesus riding a cloud and descending on Mount Olive, as the two angels promised, that doesn't mean we somehow defy gravity and rising up in the air to meet Jesus, as some dispensationalists believe, unfortunately.

And again, I don't believe there's gonna be any "left behind saints", because it's very specifically noted in Rev. 16:2, that the wrath of God is poured out upon the ones who take the mark and worship the beast. Those who are left are the 144,000 who are ALREADY saints, they don't become new believers during the Great Tribulation, they were already chosen as they are sealed, and they will be protected by the earth during the Great Tribulation.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

If the other 5 churches were not saved, Jesus would not be addressing them as His own to be ready as His disciple or else. You cannot be cut off from the vine unless you were part of the vine and it is when saved believers stop abiding in him & His words as His disciples for why He would cut them off John 15:1-8 for when He comes as the Bridegroom, disqualifying them from attending the Marriage Supper of the Lamb for being in iniquity. 1 Corinthians 5:4-11 <--- what the church is supposed to do by excommunication is what the Lord will do literally at the rapture event since there is a wedding reception but the foolish left behind are still of the kingdom of heaven per Matthew 25:1-13

My point is that rocky soil and thorny soil are not the final verdict, they are not permanent, you know. Only the first kind, the hard road, is a lost cause, while the rocky soil and thorny soil can be tilled to make room for the seed of gospel to grow. As for the five churches, clearly Jesus was criticizing their attitudes and characters and giving them the opportunity to repent and clean up their acts.

 

[Curtis]

1Co 11:31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged.
1Co 11:32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

The Church is being judged on a daily basis.

 

[GodB4Us]

I just wanna add that meeting Jesus in the air is talking about Jesus riding a cloud and descending on Mount Olive, as the two angels promised, that doesn't mean we somehow defy gravity and rising up in the air to meet Jesus, as some dispensationalists believe, unfortunately.

Verse 17 below is why I believe otherwise.

1 Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

And again, I don't believe there's gonna be any "left behind saints", because it's very specifically noted in Rev. 16:2, that the wrath of God is poured out upon the ones who take the mark and worship the beast. Those who are left are the 144,000 who are ALREADY saints, they don't become new believers during the Great Tribulation, they were already chosen as they are sealed, and they will be protected by the earth during the Great Tribulation.

When you look at Revelation 14:1-11, the first 5 verses is about who makes up His personal choir out of those that were raptured as redeemed from the earth.

Then the first angel goes forth into all the world with the everlasting gospel after the rapture event in Revelation 14:6-7

The second angel herald the fall of Babylon whereby the third angel warns every one the consequence of taking the mark of the beast to buy & sell which is the lake of fire in Revelation 14:8-11

The fall of Babylon should be significant since there are saints that were killed in it because of that fall in Revelation 18:1-24 as their works will follow them into the dust as Revelation 14:13 testifies and so not exactly new believers.

Something to discern with Him in seeing the bigger picture in His words when you align them altogether to see the truth in His words.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Verse 17 below is why I believe otherwise.

Acts 1:11 clearly says Jesus will come down to us in the same manner - which means in the air. Scripture doesn't contradict itself.

When you look at Revelation 14:1-11, the first 5 verses is about who makes up His personal choir out of those that were raptured as redeemed from the earth.

That singles them out from the rest of the "inhabitants of the earth", aka Israelites who worship the Beast as their long expected messiah, therefore they're redeemed. Throughout the whole bible, "earth" and "sea" are always code words for Israel and the gentiles, that is actually revealed in Revelation.

 

[GodB4Us]

My point is that rocky soil and thorny soil are not the final verdict, they are not permanent, you know. Only the first kind, the hard road, is a lost cause, while the rocky soil and thorny soil can be tilled to make room for the seed of gospel to grow.

The rocky soil and the thorny soil had received the seed, hence Christ, but were unable to grow as His disciple to be fruitful as the good soil was.

As for the five churches, clearly Jesus was criticizing their attitudes and characters and giving them the opportunity to repent and clean up their acts.

Right, but still addressing them as His churches. To threaten one church to be cast out into the bed of the great tribulation is to discern with Him what that means since below He said there is no casting out for He will lose nothing in verse 39.

John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

When we look at the ten virgins in how the five were foolish for why they were cast out from the wedding reception with the Bridegroom, yet the five that were foolish were the kingdom of heaven in Matthew 25:1-13 and so they still are.

So there is an excommunication from attending the Marriage Supper in heaven but there is no casting out of His kingdom of heaven for why those saved believers that were unfruitful that gets left behind are still His for why He shall finish His work even in those left behind as He shall lose none of all the Father has given them.

 

[GodB4Us]

Acts 1:11 clearly says Jesus will come down to us in the same manner - which means in the air. Scripture doesn't contradict itself.

Discernment is needed when the rapture has the living meeting up with the Lord with those that had passed on that were resurrected to meet the Lord in the air also as in they are meeting Him in the air, not on earth.

Acts 1:11 can be applied to the rapture when He comes as the Bridegroom as well as the separate event of His coming as the King of kings. Double usage in scripture has been done since double prophesy has been done.

That singles them out from the rest of the "inhabitants of the earth", aka Israelites who worship the Beast as their long expected messiah, therefore they're redeemed. Throughout the whole bible, "earth" and "sea" are always code words for Israel and the gentiles, that is actually revealed in Revelation.

I would have to disagree with your use of earth and sea as metaphors for Israel and the Gentiles as John had no need to use symbolism for them for us to know that as a meaning per reference.

John has used other symbolism for Israel, but not earth. I believe someone applied the woman as Israel giving birth to her Messiah and that the woman had to go hide in the wilderness, but that is all I can see John as doing.

 

[PloughBoy]

Nonetheless, long before that the Holy Spirit that restrains the Antichrist will be removed, then the end will come.

Which end are you referring too?

The so called “Church age”

The So called; “Great Tribulation” that the world have never know or will ever know again. The end of that age.

Or The end of The Thousand Year Reign of Christ “Iron ROD” reign.

Or The End Of The created Creation. When GOD will Make Something “Brand New” after He Has “Destroyed” The Entirer “Universe”?

A Whole lot still have To come, Before That “The End” of All “The Created Creation” in this Universe and Heaven.
Because “The End” includeds The End of Heaven Too!

We must Specify which end, are you referring too?

 

[PloughBoy]

if The World is Satan’s kingdom as prescribe by “The New Testament” in the unveiling of “Jesus The Christ of GOD” per se.

So, if Satan is divided among himself, How can his kingdom stand?

“a house divide against itself cannot stand”

So is Satan kingdom divided against its self?

then How Can this world remain?

“ALL OF the Kindoms of The World belongs to me”

Not some, ALL!


“Jesus has said: My Kingdom is Not Of This World”

But ALL, Not all, BUT ALL of The “PETERS” has said:

“Not So Lord, be it far from you”

Know you not, How “PETER” is in you?

Now mediate on that. Chew slowly, very slowly, you will choke. “Guarantee”

You listening “Peter” you Too, Mrs. Peter.


NASB 1977
Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways!

 

[PloughBoy]

But He knew their thoughts, and said to them, “Any kingdom divided against itself is laid waste; and a house dividedagainst itself falls. 18“And if Satan also is divided against himself, how shall his kingdom stand…f.

27And it came about while He said these things, one of the women in the crowd raised her voice, and said to Him, “Blessed is the womb that bore You, and the breasts at which You nursed.”28But He said, “On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of God, AND observe it.”

 

[Bill]

The word is not “Rapture” The Actual word is “Caught up”!

So do not say:

“There is only one rapture it's when Jesus returns”

But say:
“there is only one caught up it’s when Jesus returns”

If you want to translate it correctly.

Now how does the proper translation fit?

NASB 1977
“Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and [THERE] we shall always be with the Lord.”


Contemporary English Version
After I have done this, I will come back and take you with me. Then we will be together.

Plates and bowls my friend plates and bowls you still eat out of both of them

 

[PloughBoy]

Plates and bowls my friend plates and bowls you still eat out of both of them

Yep, that is when you are “Worldly minded”
You don’t need no “plates and bowls” in “ETERNITY”

observe - Google Search

www.google.com

2Set your mind on the things above, not on the things that are on earth.

 

[Bill]

Yep, that is when you are “Worldly minded”
You don’t need no “plates and bowls” in “ETERNITY”

observe - Google Search

www.google.com

2Set your mind on the things above, not on the things that are on earth.

I think you missed my point. The word rapture and the words caught up mean the same thing. Even more so than plates and bowls, and with plates and bowls you can still eat.

 

[PloughBoy]

I think you missed my point. The word rapture and the words caught up mean the same thing. Even more so than plates and bowls, and with plates and bowls you can still eat.

I think you miss my point, the word “Rapture” is not a biblical word at all, but a very very very late addition or Replacment word to a translation.

And not a word of “Holy Scripture” I chose the very “Word of GOD” others have chosen replacement for this “Text of Scripture” but others want me to compromise and sit down at there table and Drink along with them although they know “I Don’t Drink” but They Always insists That I Do! when I do not Want to Drink!

This has been a way of life, far as I can remember from a child.

Taste it. She said, come over here, I don’t want too,

She put a big fish bowl over my head, and blew some Marijuana smoke up in there and told me, to Breathe.

I did it, not because I wanted the Marijuana but she was “Pretty” she smell good and the way she smile at me and the way my name fell off of her lips, and she touch my hand.

I stuck my head in that bowl and breathe.

 

[PloughBoy]

will be caught up
ἁρπαγησόμεθα (harpagēsometha)
Verb - Future Indicative Passive - 1st Person Plural
Strong's 726: To seize, snatch, obtain by robbery. From a derivative of haireomai; to seize.