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where does the suffering come from?

Joined
May 20, 2011
Messages
183
the hindu religion says karma is the reason that one is born into adverse conditions. given that christianity believes neither in karma nor in rebirth, how does one justify someone being born into abject poverty, with physical deformities, etc? is this also what god intended, and is there any justification behind this as mentioned in the bible?
 
What is being rich,and being poor to you? is it being rich is what the world calls rich? Or is rich something given, from even those who have so little? Yesterday a homeless man saw a woman fall in the street,it was busy,many were walking from work to there cars,no one helped her,they looked.

This man with a shopping cart which had all he had in it,came to the old woman, and helped her up to her feet, she was of couse very grateful as she was very old. Many people look at us as though that is what we are to them,but God does not!

He looks at the unseen. ( 1 Cor 4:7-18) verse 18 All that we see with our eyes of flesh are but temporary,that which cannot be seen with our eyes is eternal. For the person who has the misfortune of being brought up with so little, can have more,then all that look down on this person.(Mark 14:7)

Jesus says we will always have the poor,now is that poor in things?? or is it poor in him? Notice what he says after this,Jesus says, and whatever you wish you CAN DO good to them; but you will not always have me! ( matt 6:19-24!!) Now read this under this light of Jesus!!

Those who are rich in things are rich to self,they that are rich in Christ GIVE from what little they have! ( matt 19:24-26) Fair?? Life is far from this,but it is what we do, with what we have,that makes us Rich in our Lord's Kingdom. For many who have so much give so little,yet from so little can come so much! We project on the street what we want people to think.But what we truly are, can only be seen by what we do, to and for others.Blessing
 
Dear TouchTestimony

This is a complex question, dabate rages amongst different groups regarding Karma.

Karma: A good summary of this theistic view of karma is expressed by the following: "God does not make one suffer for no reason nor does He make one happy for no reason. God is very fair and gives you exactly what you deserve."

This is a rough definition, basically a cause and effect process.
There are different theologies in the Hindu religion. Some Hindus believe in a God, others do not.

Do bad things and bad things happen to you. Note that this is an observable process in life, for example "live by the sword and die by the sword" is an example.

You asked: why is a person born into adverse circumstances.

The answer is simple: So that God may have mercy on them all.

It is not the rich and happy that respond to the Gospel, it is the poor,
blind, deaf, etc. Read the New Testament in depth and you will find the answers to your questions.
 
the hindu religion says karma is the reason that one is born into adverse conditions. given that christianity believes neither in karma nor in rebirth, how does one justify someone being born into abject poverty, with physical deformities, etc? is this also what god intended, and is there any justification behind this as mentioned in the bible?

Many hold Almighty God responsible for ailment, war, all and such deformity in human life today. ...... This is a lie.

Freewill was given to mankind by the Lord God Almighty, the creator of the heaven and earth.

Many times in scripture God Said 'Choose Life' The life spoken of was the life God gives....through Jesus.

Millions today enjoy the life God gives through Jesus the Son of God who died for our sin on the cross.

"Choose Life" God said long ago. The message is today 'life savinf'
 
We live in a fallen world and suffer the consequences of poor decisions and imperfect bodies.

Time and chance also decide many things in our lives.

Ecc_9:11 I returned and saw under the sun that— The race is not to the swift, Nor the battle to the strong, Nor bread to the wise, Nor riches to men of understanding, Nor favor to men of skill; But time and chance happen to them all.
 
Why is there suffering in the world when God is supposed to be a God of love? A question often asked, but often also I believe without real intent upon an answer, because that seeming contradiction is used by many as an excuse for unbelief. Yet there is an answer. And it is bound up in our humanness.
When Lucifer first started to covet power for himself, I doubt even he realised where his ambitions were leading. We are not told how long it took for his personal ambition for power to turn into open rebellion, but turn it did. Any rebellion reveals discontent with the governing power. Lucifer thought he could do better. And amazingly fully one third of the angels believed him. Lucifer's (Satans) charge, that God was somehow unfair, too restrictive, was an act of treason, and like all sin, punishable with death. If one third of the angels believed him, then you can believe that the rest of the angels may have harboured a few doubts also, but chose the staus quo, although I am sure there were not a few who were undecided, seeing how things would develop. Satan sure must have been incredibly persuasive, convincing, even hypnotic in his abililty to convince others of his opinion.
We often see men and women use similar techniques, modern expression for it is called neuro-linguistic-programming. NLP is a form of hypnotism, and is used by many as a tool in speech making.
Anyway, as treason is punishable with death, God had every right to destroy Satan and his fellow rebels on the spot. Snuff them out of existence...but would that have solved the problem? Such sudden justice on the part of God would have fueled the doubts already sown in the hearts of the other angels. Such arbitrary action on the part of God would have confirmed Satans charges against Him.
So God had to wait. He had to bide His time and let the rebellion play itself out. Let Satan himself reveal the true nature of his rebellion, allow time and circumstance to prove that life without the law of God, His mercy, grace, and without the sovereign love of God devolves into all manner of evil.
And when the war between Christ and Satan began to play itself out on this planet and involve mankind, it wasn't long that existence without the influence of God's laws proved fatal for man. Just one generation and we witness the first murder. Yet still not everyone was convinced. You see Adam and Eve blamed one another, and even God, for their sin. Neither was willing to accept responsibility, and confess that they had been wrong. And today? Mankind is even less convinced that life without God is impossible to maintain. Sin is still not recognised the evil it is. And many, even professing Christians, still today believe that laws of God cannot be kept, and are therefore unfair and God's arbitrary judgment for sin an even greater evil than the sin itself.
After Calvary, I am sure the angels in heaven were totally convinced of Satans evil and his wickedness in even considering opposing the govt. of heaven. But man? Man has a way to go yet. Even with all the suffering from wars, disease, violence and hatred, man still rejects God's commandments for a better way to live. But the time is coming when evil on this planet will be so pervasive and global, there will in the end be no doubt that God's ways are true, are right, righteous, just, and good, and His commandments holy, just and good.
The question then will be however, will man wait to long to make up his mind? Will he leave it too late to open his eyes to reality?
 
Like this point.

Good answer brakelite, this line especially:

"Even with all the suffering from wars, disease, violence and hatred, man still rejects God's commandments for a better way to live. But the time is coming when evil on this planet will be so pervasive and global, there will in the end be no doubt that God's ways are true, are right, righteous, just, and good, and His commandments holy, just and good."

So the final outcome will be full glory, honor and praise to God of course.
 
Good answer brakelite, this line especially:

"Even with all the suffering from wars, disease, violence and hatred, man still rejects God's commandments for a better way to live. But the time is coming when evil on this planet will be so pervasive and global, there will in the end be no doubt that God's ways are true, are right, righteous, just, and good, and His commandments holy, just and good."

So the final outcome will be full glory, honor and praise to God of course.

Amen..... Maranatha !
 
The subject was missed.

Why are people born into these conditions? It's one thing when you go out and murder someone, then go to prison for life and not be happy about it. It's something different when you are born into a poor family. You talk about poor and rich like it's middle class versus high class. What about the poor who cannot buy food? The children that starve to death and die when they are two years old. Also, what about people who are born mentally handicapped or physically disabled? What is the purpose of this? Does the bible explain in great detail of why these things occur? I understand being poor spiritually and then being rich spiritually. I also understand that on earth no money = you starve and die. The real question to address here is:

Why are people born without a choice into these conditions?
 
the hindu religion says karma is the reason that one is born into adverse conditions. given that christianity believes neither in karma nor in rebirth, how does one justify someone being born into abject poverty, with physical deformities, etc? is this also what god intended, and is there any justification behind this as mentioned in the bible?

There might never be answer to the problem of suffering, but there are assurances, comforts and explanations. For example, we know that through Satan, and later Adam, that sin entered Creation and then later tainted the world in the Garden of Eden because of disobedience, but we don't know why horrible things happen to the innocent.
 
The subject was missed.

Why are people born into these conditions? It's one thing when you go out and murder someone, then go to prison for life and not be happy about it. It's something different when you are born into a poor family. You talk about poor and rich like it's middle class versus high class. What about the poor who cannot buy food? The children that starve to death and die when they are two years old. Also, what about people who are born mentally handicapped or physically disabled? What is the purpose of this? Does the bible explain in great detail of why these things occur? I understand being poor spiritually and then being rich spiritually. I also understand that on earth no money = you starve and die. The real question to address here is:

Why are people born without a choice into these conditions?

If i may interject -

I agree with you Fraction, I do not think the subject was addressed properly. This debate subject is very active in several circles I follow on the web and tends to be side addressed with scripture and vague reference OR like the previous post some elusive theory on justifying evil in the world. I personally do not think there are any valid reasons for anyone to imply they have a position of authority by explaining actions of the natural world. I then pose the question you raised with another question - why is child hood cancer in existence? Why would god create imperfect beings in the first place? Wouldn't it have been much simpler to just create a "believe in god gene"? I know, I know - faith. BUT - try arguing the faith card in circles that dawkins and hitchens fans follow - they will swarm you like bees on honey. So - here in this forum, where criticism is safe - please answer the questions directly.

end of line
 
Why are people born without a choice into these conditions?
Is there any evidence that no one had a choice?
Is there any evidence we had no choice?

If we had no choice then the manufacturer of the product is liable.
Man attaining the knowledge of good and evil and letting death enter was a foreseeable hazard so if I was a lawyer and God was a corporation I could probably sue him for negligence.

If we had a choice....well that would change everything wouldn't it.
Those with easy lives (who appear great)would actually be the lesser.
And those who had evil lumped on them all their lives and were rejected of men but kept a pure heart would be awesome players.
Your punishment would be your own disappointment in your poor performance.

This verse tells me it's nothing that the two men did that made their lives good and evil.It is in the design:
Luke 16:25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

Abraham said they each received these things although he doesn't mention where they come from.

but now he is comforted(perhaps because of his performance?), and thou art tormented (perhaps he was disappointed in his performance?).
This brings to mind two brothers,Cain and Able.
One was comforted concerning his sacrifice and one was disappointed.
 
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This brings to mind two brothers,Cain and Able.
One was comforted concerning his sacrifice and one was disappointed.

"In the course of time, Cain brought some of the fruits of the soil as an offering to the Lord. But Abel brought fat portions from some of the firstborne of his flock." (Gen 4:3-4)

Abel loved God deeply and made a effort to offer the very best he had. Cain, on the other hand, wasn't committed to a relationship with God and his offering was thrown together more casually and half-heartedly. That's why it was rejected.

SLE
 
Abel loved God deeply and made a effort to offer the very best he had. Cain, on the other hand, wasn't committed to a relationship with God and his offering was thrown together more casually and half-heartedly. That's why it was rejected.
Genesis 4:5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.

I was focusing more on Cain's reaction to his offering being rejected.
He was disappointed that his sacrifice was not pleasing to God.
Don't we all want to hear "well done my good and faithful servant?
 
I was focusing more on Cain's reaction to his offering being rejected.
He was disappointed that his sacrifice was not pleasing to God.
Don't we all want to hear "well done my good and faithful servant?

Many people who occupy church pews regularly today will find themselves in the same boat as Cain on Judgemet Day because they were careless in their relationship with God; they did not treasure it every day (see Mt 25:1-13).

SLE
 
I long ago realised that i would never understand why there was such suffering and evil in this world if the God i believe in is a God of justice, compassion and mercy, so in many ways although the questions still nag at my belief , and sometimes cloud my faith i try to put my efforts into doing what i can to alleviate the sufferings of the hungry, the sick, the homeless and the oppressed, and leave the rest to God.

Easy to say i know, and often very hard to do, but sometimes without "letting go" of so many questions you can spend your time looking for answers that aren't there instead of addressing the many problems that are.

Just what does the Lord require of us, "To act JUSTLY, and to love MERCY and to walk HUMBLY with him", and sometimes humility is the hardest part of all!!.
 
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