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Bro Bear.You stated that if we see others as sinners,we are really at risk of judging beyond our position of grace.That to me spells out position and I disagree with you.I stated before and I will say it again I believe Im a sinner saved by grace and by saying that person is sinning or a sinner is not out of bounds.This position of mine does not mean I dont love sinners Jesus was called many names including a friend of sinners.And I could tell you a thing or two about sin,truth be told many of us are so spiritually advanced and bloated with the truth that as good as all this spiritality may sound we run the risk of sinning even in what was meant for the good.
 
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By not looking to myself as if I can live the christian life to the best of my ability but by placing my trust in Jesus to help me to live as His, Heaven will reveal His glory in me in doing those things mentioned in the post by the grace of God as it is His righteousness that brings me Home.

Galatians 2:20I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
 
Correction,when I said we should put our selves in the shoes of sinners Bro Bear imidiatly thumped me over the head with scripture and rightly so but I never meant we should go and sin.Can any of us look back and recall how it felt when in our past we lived under the wrath of God?And can we now as the redeemed offer some meaningful help to those trapped in sin?Only when we have experienced will we be able to feel the bloody blisters in those shoes im talking about.I dont know why Im being confused for a message of judgement.All's im saying is im a sinner in defense of other sinners.I tell ya if everyone out there had a quick comeback like some of you all do then there wouldnt be any need for a forum such as this.If anyone was offended by me I ask for your fogiveness and let us enjoy God's amazing grace keep me in your prayers.
 
Hello, I'm new here, and havent seen all the post on this subject, but I think I understand what Carlos is saying.

We as Christians often forget the long suffering, and patience of our lord bringing us to repentance, and are to quick to point a finger, and find fault with another.
We are to remember from where God saved us from, and show the same patient, long suffering, and Love God showed us.
I cannot point a finger at another for I am reminded there are still 3 pointing back at me!
We need to take the beam out of our own eye, so we can see to take the splinter out of our brothers.
Each one of us is at a different level of growth, just as a natural child is.
We dont expect a 5 year old to act with the same wisdom as a 25 year old for instance, but we come along side that child and help her/him grow up.
Lovingly remembering the Lords patience with us..... :embarasse

PS: Hope I havent missed the point to far.....
 
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O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are His judgments, and His ways past finding out!

For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been His counsellor?

Or who hath first given to Him, and it shall be recompensed unto Him again?

For of Him, and through Him, and to Him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

Romans 11:33-36



Dear brother Carlos,

forgive me if I appeared to thump you over the head... I had no intention at all of doing such a thing.

I was merely sharing Scripture, for all of us to see what the Word says, as it is not me nor my words that matter... but Christ alone, yes, none other but Him.
Brother, I have found that when we are seeking the Lord, and by that I mean in our day-to-day, earnestly desiring to know Him and His will each step of the way, He will show us great things, and where in the past I used to look at the man who delivered a morsel for me, I have learnt that it is the Lord who will use any means possible to reveal Himself unto us... and rather than feeling hard done by, or wronged .. offended or insulted, attacked or discredited... I have learnt that He is faithful.. and He showed me.. only because He is faithful.... and true in His love, not because I am anything to brag about, He has shown me that it is Him who reveals truth.. to build me up.....and He treats us all the same.

We are feeble folk.. us people... and I speak for myself first here... that we take some getting through to.. yet, the Lord in His patience and love, seasoned with grace....yes, our Lord Jesus Christ, is longsuffering with us and it is He who does the things we often can perceive as others 'thumping us over the head' . Please don't read this wrongly... for what I am saying is that it is us (remember, I am first pointing at me) who forget that we have asked the Lord to show us things, to lead us and guide us , to keep us on the straight and narrow path.. and it is us who can misunderstand depending on how we look at things....


which brings us back to the original thread.... and again, we must look through His eyes... and yes, we can only do so by His Spirit , His life in us, and see anew, the things of God.

Brother, I am very much in agreement with you about our need to remain humbled under the mighty hand of God working out His Salvation in us... and that we ought to remember always from whence we came..

I am reminded about the chap who went on about 'his holiness' while bagging out the sinner over there...

And He spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

Luke 18:9-14

Brother Carlos, what I am saying is this.... although we can look at others and without any judgement against them at all, see they are sinners.. or perhaps better put for this text, still in sin, still bound in sin, and we can and ought care and attempt to empathise with them.. to understand what it might be like to walk a mile in their shoes, we will always do one step better if we take hold of the life of Christ in us, that He gave in grace to us, and look at people as He does.... putting off the old man, and even putting off the old way of seeing things... and being transformed by the renewing of our minds, to see all people as a race in need of a Saviour...

and no longer see in the manner of men.... of "us and them" .


I am not in any way arguing with you brother, but in my very feeble way, encouraging you to enter into His rest and allow Him to reveal His heart and mind to you, thus encouraging you to keep going in the way of truth, to continue in your humility.. and see we are all equal.... in need of His life and His mercy and grace and... love....

remember Paul saying he was the chief of sinners? (see 1Timothy 1:11-17 ) I figured he must have been a bad egg.... how did I come at that, some may ask... well I looked at myself, and thought ... well even though I would easily take that title, of chief of sinners, I can not... so if I reckon I am rotten, then how bad must Paul have been!
He also said quite clearly that he did the things he didn't want to do and didn't do the things he did want to do! I can relate!!!! BUT.... he also pointed out the fact that we are no longer under the law of sin and death. That is the difference. It is not a licence to go sinning.. no way, or as he put it, " God forbid! " (see Romans 7:4-25 )

But to walk in humility of mind... and put on the mind of Christ.. and having eyes, to see.... no longer being conformed to the ways of this world and the wisdom of this world but, being set free from the bondage and curse of the law of sin and death, we can see that our struggle is not the doing, but the believing. (See Philippians 2:1-18 )

Remember, too, that they could not enter in ... because of unbelief. (See Hebrews 3:19


Bless you ....><>



Br. Bear


ps.. what would it profit me or you or anyone if I could prove I could and maybe even do outsin you? Let us rather boast of the grace of God in Jesus Christ the Lord and His goodness.

and brother, you asked for prayer... yes.. and pray for me, too.

Read Ephesians 6:10-17 ,that Scripture telling us to put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. and then read on....

Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;
And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,
For which I am an ambassador in bonds: that therein I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.

Ephesians 6:18-20
 
And the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patient waiting for Christ.
2Thessalonians 3:5






Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

Philippians 3:8-11




Greetings,

May I add something to this post?

All that you have stated here will in no way get a person to heaven.... or better put, ensure and seal their eternal life.

Before you react, please listen....

Far too often we have this message of becoming a clean person being taught and preached as if it is the end of the need for a Christian to fulfill the role of a doer.

While we can not dispute the need to walk upright before God and man, there is a much deeper message that will not often get touched upon.

Let us go back before moving forward.... yes, as the Scriptures tell us,

All scripture is given by inspiration of God,
and is profitable for doctrine,
for reproof,
for correction,
for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect,
throughly furnished unto all good works.

2Timothy 3:16 -17


James 5:10 Take, my brethren, the prophets, who have spoken in the name of the Lord, for an example of suffering affliction, and of patience.
1Pe 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:

We can begin to see the example we must follow....

Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am.
If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet.
For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you.
Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.
If ye know these things, happy are ye if ye do them.

John 13:13-17

Beloved,
tell me please what does it profit a person to appear decent in their lifestyle.... what can this achieve for them or any other on this planet, besides perhaps setting a good example for clean living to avoid a few of the pitfalls so common to man?

Look now to the Disciples, who we say we are.... yes?

All but one, died a gruesome death and suffered for the Gospel's sake.

They did not love their lives in such a way as to worry about what they ate or drank, or what they wore.... Our Lord made this very clear For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.
Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
Romans 14:17-19

And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Revelation 12:10-11

Now, we are called to suffer with Him.... to bear fruit..... fruit which remains.... not things pertaining to the flesh.... and the fruit we must bear, can only be brought about through taking up your cross and following Christ..... and then rejoicing when things seem to go totally against you.

We must become new, and serve in newness of our minds, not just our behaviour. I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Romans 12:1-3

Remember we are saved by grace...not works.

One thing that must be done, that the Scriptures are very sure of, is to love one another.
I have written these things, not to do away with what has been said, but to add to it....

Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.
The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.
Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying.
But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

Romans 13:10-14


Bless you ....><>

Br. Bear


Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
which according to his abundant mercy
hath begotten us again unto a lively hope
by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

To an inheritance incorruptible,
and undefiled,
and that fadeth not away,
reserved in heaven for you,
Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season,
if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:
That the trial of your faith,
being much more precious than of gold that perisheth,
though it be tried with fire,
might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
Whom having not seen,
ye love;
in whom, though now ye see him not,
yet believing,
ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:

Receiving the end of your faith,
even the salvation of your souls.

Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently,
who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify,
when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ,
and the glory that should follow.
Unto whom it was revealed,
that not unto themselves,
but unto us they did minister the things,
which are now reported unto you
by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost
sent down from heaven;
which things the angels desire to look into.

Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind,
be sober,
and hope to the end
for the grace that is to be brought unto you
at the revelation of Jesus Christ;

As obedient children,
not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:
But as he which hath called you is holy,
so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
Because it is written,

Be ye holy;

for I am holy.

And if ye call on the Father,
who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work,
pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:
Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things,
as silver and gold,
from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

But with the precious blood of Christ,
as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world,
but was manifest in these last times for you,
Who by him do believe in God,
that raised him up from the dead,
and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

Seeing ye have purified your souls
in obeying the truth through the Spirit
unto unfeigned love of the brethren,
see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
Being born again,
not of corruptible seed,
but of incorruptible,
by the word of God,
which liveth and abideth for ever.

For all flesh is as grass,
and all the glory of man as the flower of grass.
The grass withereth,
and the flower thereof falleth away:
But the word of the Lord endureth for ever.
And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

1Peter 1:3-25

Amen Br. Bear and God bless you. this race is a gradual race and all we need God's grace to run it.
 
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