Who is Jesus' Angel?

[Romans 8.28]

Revelation 1:1. The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by "His angel" unto his servant John.

I do have my ideas as to the answer, but solicit other ideas. Thanks.

 

[judge not]

Revelation 1:1. The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by "His angel" unto his servant John.

I do have my ideas as to the answer, but solicit other ideas. Thanks.

As far as I know in my research the angel of the lord in Rev1:1 is none other than Jesus Christ who was sent by God, the Father to John.
Jesus was the Angel of the Lord in the Old Testament references as well
jn

 

[Romans 8.28]

As far as I know in my research the angel of the lord in Rev1:1 is none other than Jesus Christ who was sent by God, the Father to John.
Jesus was the Angel of the Lord in the Old Testament references as well jn

Thanks for your post "Judge not." The way the verse is written prohibits me from believing it is Jesus though I believe I understand your reasoning as shown by my inserts below. I do have further reason to believe this "Angel" is other than Jesus I hope to be brought forth.

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto Him (Jesus), to shew unto His (Jesus') servants things which must shortly come to pass; and He (Jesus or our Father?) sent and signified it by His (Jesus' or the Father's) angel unto His servant John.

What you say is not farfetched because we do read of Paul receiving revelation from Jesus in Galatians 1:12. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ."

And we too are told to hope for revelation in 1 Peter 1:13. . . . hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.

 

[DarthTrekkie]

I'm leaning towards Judge Not's answer. When we talk about the trinity, I think its not far fetched to assume there could be grammerical loopholes with the person of God and Jesus. Judging by the context of the verse I think it would be a safe assumption that the original text intends "angel" as meaning messenger (which is the literal meaning of the word) rather than another heavenly being. We know that Jesus has taken the role of messanger as you pointed out earlier. The thing that realy tips the scale for me though is this: The revelation of John was written after the resurection and the manifest indwelling of the Holy Spirit was given to us. I find it more likely that Johns experience was facilitated with the Holy Spirit. Since the Holy Spirit is God and not an angel (in the being sense) I am leaning towards it being Jesus. I am only basing this off the verse which you posted and I certainly am open to other possibilities pending a deeper analysis. In other words, I wanna know your thoughts on it.

 

[Romans 8.28]

DarthTrekkie, this is great. Your statement "the original text intends "angel" as meaning messenger (which is the literal meaning of the word) rather than another heavenly being" is a major key. If we consider the angels in the churches the letters John wrote being addressed to in Revelation Chapters Two and Three after reading Revelation 1:11, "Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia," these are the ministers of those churches.

What I'm getting at here is that God is working with His saints (Angels-messengers) including John instead of created heavenly angels. So at this point I will just go ahead and state who I believe Jesus' angel to be with scripture.

Revelation 19:9 And he (who?) saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.
Revelation 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Revelation 22:7 Behold, I (Jesus) come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.
8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel (Who?) which shewed me these things.
9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

We might also consider the following scripture. Hebrews 13:2 Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares. Is it possible God is using even our pastors or fellow saints to deal with us too? I know I've heard messages from the pulpit seemingly directed to the problem I'm having without him knowing anything I'm going through.

In another thread I will get to who this angel (messenger) might be, how he got there, and when.

My thoughts.

 

[stephen]

The book was transmitted from God to Christ, to the angel, to John, to the Churches, to us.

(Dake)

 

[Romans 8.28]

The book was transmitted from God to Christ, to the angel, to John, to the Churches, to us.

(Dake)

That's the way I see it. Thanks.

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

Is it possible God is using even our pastors or fellow saints to deal with us too?

Very interesting possibilities and I can think of at least one more possibility.

Ephesians 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Since the Lamb of God was slain from the foundation of the world this event took place then.
There now exists in the finished work of Jesus Christ a cloud of witnesses.We exist in heavenly places that are not subject to the time of this universe.
This Angel could feasibly be yourself from out of time and perfected.

I'm not convinced of this but I do see the possibility.

 

[Romans 8.28]

Very interesting possibilities and I can think of at least one more possibility.

Ephesians 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Since the Lamb of God was slain from the foundation of the world this event took place then.
There now exists in the finished work of Jesus Christ a cloud of witnesses.We exist in heavenly places that are not subject to the time of this universe.
This Angel could feasibly be yourself from out of time and perfected.

I'm not convinced of this but I do see the possibility.

That is an interesting observation on the cloud of witnesses. I always associate them as being the clouds with Jesus when we are caught up to meet Him.

Hebrews 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

 

[B-A-C]

There are only a few angels mentioned by name in the Bible. (Gabriel, Michael, Lucifer, etc..)
However all of the (Heavenly/Good) angels are subject to God/Jesus. (Matt 26:53 for example).
There are seraphims (Isa 6:2 Isa 6:6), cherubims (Exod 25:18-22), arch-angels (Jude 1:9) and possibly a few other angel types. Some say these are Angel classes, (warriors, messengers, etc..). Another interesting note about angels, is that no female angels are mentioned in the Bible anywhere. We also know that angels don't marry. (Matt 22:30)

 

[Romans 8.28]

There are only a few angels mentioned by name in the Bible. (Gabriel, Michael, Lucifer, etc..)
However all of the (Heavenly/Good) angels are subject to God/Jesus. (Matt 26:53 for example).
There are seraphums, cherabums, arch-angels and possibly a few other angel types. Some say these are Angel classes, (warriors, messengers, etc..). Another interesting note about angels, is that o female angels are mentioned in the Bible anywhere. We also know that angels don't marry. (Matt 22:30)

Thanks for those comments B-A-C. I will add that the cherubim and seraphim's are but figures of the four beasts of Revelation 4:6 seen in the midst of Jesus' throne. The KJV reveals them to be redeemed in Revelation 5:9 as they sing, "thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation." Though angelic, they are saints of the highest order of overcoming which will reign with Christ, and as Darth Trekkie said, angels are simply messengers.

In Revelation 6:1 and other verses we see them associated with judgment being dealt out. "And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see." Again, this is Jesus using the redeemed as His angels.

One other thing you mentioned is that though Lucifer is an angel, and many think he is not subject to God, when dealing with Job's life in Job 2:6 he was restricted or subject to what God allowed.

My thoughts.

 

[B-A-C]

One other thing you mentioned is that though Lucifer is an angel, and many think he is not subject to God, when dealing with Job's life in Job 2:6 he was restricted or subject to what God allowed.

My thoughts.

Good point. Satan can do nothing without God allowing it. Also even the demons are subject to Jesus. (Mark 1:34, Luke 10:17, James 2:19, etc)
All this Hollywood mumbo-jumbo about demons might make for a good movie. But the Bible says....
Mark 16:17, Mark 1:24, Luke 4:34 ...that they are afraid of Jesus, because he has the power to destroy them.

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

That is an interesting observation on the cloud of witnesses. I always associate them as being the clouds with Jesus when we are caught up to meet Him.

Yes,I associate them the same way.

Jude 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
who are these saints?
John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

The son of man was standing on the earth when he said that and he was claiming he came from heaven and was still in heaven.Since he had not died and been resurrected yet he must have been speaking of a place that is not subject to time as we know it.We were also raised with him according to Ephesians so we were with him already out of time when he said that.

In Revelation 6:1 and other verses we see them associated with judgment being dealt out. "And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see." Again, this is Jesus using the redeemed as His angels.

I agree there is no evidence that these are angels.I also see no evidence that Satan is Lucifer or that Satan was ever an angel.

 

[Romans 8.28]

Yes,I associate them the same way.

Jude 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
who are these saints?
John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

The son of man was standing on the earth when he said that and he was claiming he came from heaven and was still in heaven.Since he had not died and been resurrected yet he must have been speaking of a place that is not subject to time as we know it.We were also raised with him according to Ephesians so we were with him already out of time when he said that.


I agree there is no evidence that these are angels.I also see no evidence that Satan is Lucifer or that Satan was ever an angel.

In Revelation 12:9 Satan and his angels are kicked out of heaven that indicates he is a created angel to me. As to Ephesians we are provisionally seated in the heavens with all spiritual blessings in Christ since we are in Him and He in us. I do think you'll agree we are not home yet.

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

In Revelation Satan and his angels are kicked out of heaven that indicates he is a created angel to me.

Thats a good argument but I don't think I could get a conviction in a court of law
John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Jesus said Satan was a murderer from the beginning.
He has and uses angels but I am not convinced he was ever an angel,just a liar.

His power to accuse fell from heaven that is certain.
Revelation 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

Ephesians we are provisionally seated in the heavens with all spiritual blessings in Christ since we are in Him and He in us. I do think you'll agree we are not home yet.

How do we know it's not the other way around.What if he is the real me and he will come and claim his home.

 

[Romans 8.28]

In Revelation Satan and his angels are kicked out of heaven that indicates he is a created angel to me.

Thats a good argument but I don't think I could get a conviction in a court of law
John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Jesus said Satan was a murderer from the beginning.
He has and uses angels but I am not convinced he was ever an angel, just a liar.

The very words they spoke were of Satan showing they were earthly and not born from on high. Was he a murder from the beginning? Yes, he would have killed God if possible. Are we really born of Satan? Only as a metaphor much like we are what we eat. The word of God allowed us to be born anew in Him.

His power to accuse fell from heaven that is certain.
Revelation 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before ourGod day and night.

This is all very future to the middle of the tribulation.

Ephesians we are provisionally seated in the heavens with all spiritual blessings in Christ since we are in Him and He in us. I do think you'll agree we are not home yet.

How do we know it's not the other way around. What if he is the real me and he will come and claim his home.

I do remember reading that we will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air.

 

[B-A-C]

Boy, this is getting to be a deep subject in a hurry.

Most scholar's consider Ezekiel 28:2-20 to be talking about Satan.
A being called the "leader" or "king" of Tyre is mentioned in verses 2 and 12. This may be a parallel allegory.
It is doubtful that an Earthly king in the time of Ezekiel (590-570 BC) was alive in the garden of Eden (28:13). It is even more unlikely that an Earthly king was a cherubim (28:14) If this is satan, then he was a cherubim (angel)

Also many consider Isaiah 14:12-22 to be a description of Satan's sin.
In Isaiah 14:12, some Bible's say "star of the morning", some say "morning star" and some say "Lucifer". Lucifer simply means "morning star".

A number of scholars also say that Ezekiel 28:16-19 is Satan's punishment.
In Luke 10:18 Jesus said he saw Satan fall from Heaven. If satan was the serpent who tempted Adam and Eve in the garden, and Adam was the first man created, then satan had to be a different type of being (if not an angel, then at least not a man... although I have to wonder what other kind of beings there might have been, none are mentioned in the Bible).

Satan appears to have multiple judgements.
Ezek 28:16
Gen 3:14-15
John 12:31
Rev 12:13
Rev 20:2
Rev 20:10

If demons are simply another name for the fallen angels, then Satan is called the prince of demons (fallen angels) in Matt 12:24
Some angels are currently in hell (Jude 1:6-7)

 

[Romans 8.28]

Boy, this is getting to be a deep subject in a hurry.

Most scholar's consider Ezekiel 28:2-20 to be talking about Satan.
A being called the "leader" or "king" of Tyre is mentioned in verses 2 and 12. This may be a parallel allegory.
It is doubtful that an Earthly king in the time of Ezekiel (590-570 BC) was alive in the garden of Eden (28:13). It is even more unlikely that an Earthly king was a cherubim (28:14) If this is satan, then he was a cherubim (angel)

Also many consider Isaiah 14:12-22 to be a description of Satan's sin.
In Isaiah 14:12, some Bible's say "star of the morning", some say "morning star" and some say "Lucifer". Lucifer simply means "morning star".

A number of scholars also say that Ezekiel 28:16-19 is Satan's punishment.
In Luke 10:18 Jesus said he saw Satan fall from Heaven. If satan was the serpent who tempted Adam and Eve in the garden, and Adam was the first man created, then satan had to be a different type of being (if not an angel, then at least not a man).

Satan appears to have multiple judgements.
Ezek 28:16
Gen 3:14-15
John 12:31
Rev 12:13
Rev 20:2
Rev 20:10

If demons are simply another name for the fallen angels, then Satan is called the prince of demons (fallen angels) in Matt 12:24

Notice something else to go with the morning star being an angel of light. 2 Corinthians 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Of course he is a false light.

Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! He was not a man in any sense of the word.

I believe you are correct on your thinking of the physical king of Tyre not actually being in Eden, but I actually do not know. Many things in God's word are written as allegories, and are prophetic in type and shadow of things to come. For instance again, the events of Satan being cast from heaven occurs during the tribulation in Revelation 12:9.

 

[stephen]

That's the way I see it. Thanks.

Bless you...in Jesus dear Brother

 

[B-A-C]

I have always found the description of angels in Ezekiel 1:4-24 to be very interesting. It even describes how they move and fly. This is much different from the "naked baby" angels or even the female angels with their long flowing hair and flowing dresses.

This is very similar to the beings described in Rev 4:7-9, Ezek 3:13, Ezek 10:12-22, Ezek 11:22,

Sometimes I wonder where the common depiction of angels came from?