Welcome!

By registering with us, you'll be able to discuss, share and private message with other members of our community.

SignUp Now!
  • Welcome to Talk Jesus Christian Forums

    Celebrating 20 Years!

    A bible based, Jesus Christ centered community.

    Register Log In

Who Or What Is The Second Beast of Rev 13?

Hello Canada.

It might be wise to check your own sources first.

Please read the following SDA INFORMATION.

ENDTIME ISSUES NEWSLETTER NUMBER 146

“The Saga of the Adventist Papal Tiara: Part 2”

Samuele Bacchiocchi, Ph. D,

Retired Professor of Church History and Theology,

Andrews University


( From the very start, back in 1874, Andrews University has placed serious scholarship, quality research and a strong focus on practical Christianity first on the list of things we think are important about attendance at a Christian university. We started out small. Mr. Bell, a teacher, started a tiny school with only twelve students in Battle Creek, Mich. This was the birth of what we now know as Andrews University. Today, Andrews is the best-known Adventist educational institution in the world.)

Now read the following!

The Role of Uriah Smith

The view that the number of the Beast (666) is to be found in the pope’s title Vicarius Filii Dei, inscribed in the papal tiara, was first presented and promoted by Uriah Smith. In his book The United States in the Light of Prophecy (published in 1884), Smith affirms unequivocally that “The number over which the saints are also to get the victory, is the number of the papal beast, called also the number of his name, and the number of a man, and said to be six hundred three scores and six. The pope wears upon his pontifical crown in jeweled letters, this title, Vicarius Filii Dei, vicegerent of the Son of God. The most plausible supposition we have seen on this point is that here we find the number in question. It is the number of the beast, the papacy; it is the number of a man, for he adopts it as his distinctive title; it is the number of a man, for he who bears it is the ‘man of sin’” (4th edition, 1884, p. 224).

Smith’s interpretation was accepted and promoted even by John N. Andrews, a leading Adventist scholar. In his book The Three Messages of Revelation 14:6-12, Andrews wrote: “The number of the name of the beast is also to be enforced as a test of submission to him. This number, which is said to be that of a man, is seen, without doubt, in the title of ‘Vicar of the Son of God’ which the pope has caused to be inscribed upon his mitre. It is written in Latin, and the numeral letters employed make the sum of 666. The design of this test is to cause men to acknowledge the authority of the papacy” (pp. 108-109).

Andrews believed that the number 666 was visible “without doubt” in the inscription Vicarius Filii Dei found in the MITRE, while Smith placed the inscription on the TIARA. Most likely Andrews did not know the difference between the two, because the oral testimonies used to support the inscription always speak of the TIARA, not of the MITRE.

Uriah Smith and John N. Andrews played a major role in leading the whole Adventist church to accept the application of the number of the Beast to the papal title Vicarius Filii Dei, allegedly inscribed in the papal tiara. The wide circulation of Smith’s book Daniel and the Revelation contributed significantly to popularize this teaching.

Unfortunately, in spite of the painstaking efforts by private and official Adventist investigators commissioned by the GC, no tiara has ever been found with the inscription Vicarius Filii Dei. Of the 13 existing papal tiara, only two of them have inscriptions, but these inscriptions are considerably different from Vicarius Filii Dei. You can see the stunning pictures of the inscribed tiaras in the DVD recording. This factor as well as other compelling exegetical reasons to be mentioned shortly, have led respected Adventist scholars to abandon the traditional numeric interpretation in favor of a symbolic interpretation of the number 666.
 
<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:PunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w:DontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if !mso]><object classid="clsid:38481807-CA0E-42D2-BF39-B33AF135CC4D" id=ieooui></object> <style> st1\:*{behavior:url(#ieooui) } </style> <![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026"/> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapelayout v:ext="edit"> <o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1"/> </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--> Again … your tactic of guilt by association.

Have you associated me with any of the historicists I had listed?
Sir Isaac Newton, Matthew Henry, Spurgeon? No.

You open with “It might be wise to check your own sources first.”

It appears that you are desperately trying to judge me as being a Seventh Day Adventist, for that is the information you provided. I am not.
I am a born again Bible believing fully immersed Reformed Baptist.

It is my understanding that Jack Van Impe and Benny Hinn are both “futurists”. Should I associate you with them? God forbid me.

I remind you of an earlier statement of yours:
“You (canada) are convinced no doubt that you have the full and accurate revelation of the Gospel.”

You know very well that I made no such statement, nor did I claim such knowledge. I believe my comment at that time was that you were trying to create a confrontation by your accusative statement.

My posts have been about the errors of Romanism, and yet you seem to be opposed to evidence I present. Might you be Roman Catholic? I ask this because it would not be the first time that a Protestant site has been infiltrated by Jesuit “moles”.

My latest post was clearly about … the mark of the beast.
And yet, you make no mention of this subject at all, and instead divert the subject to 666 and the Triple Tiara.

Again … I made no such comment about the tiara or 666.

The historicists THAT I LISTED commonly link 666 with the word
“Lateinos” or “Latin man” as that is the language of Romanism.

If you are looking for numerical associations, here are a few:

Ancient Greek … “Italian Church” … Italika Ekklesia = 666

Latin … Captain of the Clergy …Dux Cleri = 666.

Hebrew … The Roman Man … Romiti = 666

I do not know what threads you have started, but rest assured I will not be participating in any of them.
 
I do apologize canada.

I have spent weeks battling sda theology and it
has made me twitchy. You mentioned vatican,
so I thought "not another one".

I am not a Jesuit nor a Catholic, just a simple Christian
no denomination.

Please proceed, my fault entirely.

Yours in Christ, David.
 
Last edited:
No Problem David ... apology accepted.

No doubt, things can get a little heated when eschatology is involved.
 
<!--[if !mso]> <style> v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} </style> <![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:PunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w:DontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if !mso]><object classid="clsid:38481807-CA0E-42D2-BF39-B33AF135CC4D" id=ieooui></object> <style> st1\:*{behavior:url(#ieooui) } </style> <![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026"/> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapelayout v:ext="edit"> <o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1"/> </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--> WHAT GREAT CITY MERCHANDISES IN THE SOULS OF MEN?


Is it that great city Mystery, Babylon that merchandises in the souls of men?

Is this great city Jerusalem? (as claimed by preterists) or is it literal Babylon, or New York City ... or, is this great religious city Vatican City?

And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth. Rev 17:18.

Did Vatican City reign over any kings of the earth? History shows that many kings of the earth were subservient to Vatican City and its popes.

The last 5 or 6 kings or rulers of my country (Canada) have been subservient to the popes of Rome. Rev 16:19 speaks about the judgment of the great ***** that sitteth upon many waters, with whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication.

Can you name some kings (heads of state) that have held audience with the supreme head of this great city ... Vatican City?

Consider former presidents Jimmy Carter, Ronald Reagan, George and Laura Bush, Queen Elizabeth, Pierre Trudeau, Tony Blair and a host of other kings and dignitaries. Some that have literally bowed down to this supreme pontiff .

Even the great Christian leader Billy Graham and the Archbishop of Canterbury have presented themselves to this man whose followers bow down to, kiss his ring, and his potential priests literally lay prostrate before him.

Does any other city in the world receive this type of religious adulation?

Rev 16:6 tells us that this city has shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink.

It is estimated that between 50 and 100 million Christian saints were butchered or burned alive at the stake. Some were mercifully strangled prior to being put to the flame.

Rev 16:10 tells us that the seat of this beast and his kingdom was full of darkness. This "darkness" relates directly to the historical "Dark Ages" of the Roman Catholic Inquisition.

Rev 16:19 speaks about this great city that was divided into THREE PARTS ... and great Babylon came in remembrance before God.

If this is to be understood spiritually rather than literally, then it applies to that great city that claims to reign over three realms.

heaven
hell
earth


There is only one city on planet earth that makes that claim ... Vatican City.
This fact is confirmed by its infamous three tiered … "Triple Tiara".

Rev 17:4 describes this "woman" arrayed in purple and scarlet (the colours of the prelates of Rome) having a golden cup in her hand full of abomination.

When the priests of this religious "woman" perform their multiple "daily sacrifices", they miraculously turn wine into the literal blood of Jesus and then drink it ... this cup is always golden.

Scripture tells us that they have shed the blood of saints and prophets and thou hast given them blood to drink.

Rev 18:6 tells the saints to reward her as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works; In the cup (that golden cup of blood) which she hath filled, fill to her double ... for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen.

The title "Queen of Heaven" has been placed upon Mary, whom they have elevated to the position of Mediatrix ... even favoured over Jesus for this position, for she is more "compassionate" than Jesus! Such blasphemy.

Note the "double" ... Babylon is fallen, is fallen. Double unto her double according to her works; in the cup which she hath filled, fill to her double.

I believe this reference to double and the two references "is fallen, is fallen" is a clue as to the origins of this city.

It is claimed that the twins (doubles) Romulus and Remus were suckled by a she WOLF.
Vatican City lays within Rome, and that city was named after Romulus … ie Rome.

This may be why the Bible speaks about WOLVES in sheep's clothing.

Rome is the world center for the study of twins or doubles.

And the kings of the earth shall bewail her, and lament her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning ... alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.

I am age 80, but I sincerely believe that some living today will literally witness the destruction of that magnificent city. And the world will cry out … how could God allow
such destruction to happen to such a religious city?

Then and only then, will the followers of Rome understand.

And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more ... and the merchandise of gold and silver, and precious stones ...scarlet and purple ... and slaves and the SOULS OF MEN. Slaves to the Church of Rome. Rev 18:11-12.

Brothers and sisters, prophecy is for all Christians for all ages ... not just for our time.

I believe the biblical description of Mystery Babylon describes Vatican City ... the city that merchandises in the souls of men.

God speaks to those ensnared in the deceptive teachings of this "religion" ... "come out of her" my people ... this is a plea to Roman Catholics to flee.

Oh that they would flee to the mountain of the Lord ... the city whose Builder and Maker is God.

ccc
 
Last edited:
I do apologize canada.

I have spent weeks battling sda theology and it
has made me twitchy. You mentioned vatican,
so I thought "not another one".

I am not a Jesuit nor a Catholic, just a simple Christian
no denomination.

Please proceed, my fault entirely.

Yours in Christ, David.

So if an Adventist provides true information regarding the Vatican that is not accpetable. But if a 'fully immersed reform Baptist ' provides same information, that is ok? David, you are showing your prejudice. You were even taking an interest in my thread 'were they right' which basically reveals much of the same evidence Canada has given, until you found out I was an Adventist. Now you are interested again?
 
Hello brakelite.

Well it may appear that I show bias.

Just let canada continue and we will
see whether the identification of the
antichrist is the same as yours.

It is not rocket science to correctly
assert who the harlot is brakelite.

Relax.
 
Back
Top