Why did God allow the Holocaust?

[MrBornAgain]

Of course the Jews are anti-christian. That doesn't mean the holocaust didn't happen. So,I asked you earlier, how did it happen?

Stranger

It didn't..

 

[Quantrill]

It didn't..

Well, you said in post # (5), "not like they tell it". So what do you mean?

Stranger

 

[MrBornAgain]

Well, you said in post # (5), "not like they tell it". So what do you mean?

Stranger

They lie... Serve themselves.

 

[MrBornAgain]

Well, you said in post # (5), "not like they tell it". So what do you mean?

Stranger

Didn't Jesus say they was prideful, boastful, etc? They don't deeds according on reputation.. Synagogue of Satan I believe Jesus said..
Would you report him?

 

[Quantrill]

Didn't Jesus say they was prideful, boastful, etc? They don't deeds according on reputation.. Synagogue of Satan I believe Jesus said..
Would you report him?

They lie... Serve themselves.

That the Jews,as a whole and their religion, are anti-christian is true. That they at this time are under a judicial sentence from God that is as divorce under law is true. (Jer. 3:8) (Is. 50:1) That their condition of being under the Gentile heel and experiencing persecutions due to their rejection of their Messiah, Jesus Christ is true. (Matt. 27:25) (Luke 21:24) (Rom. 11:25).

None of this however proves the holocaust didn't happen.

I didn't report you.

Quantrill

 

[KingJ]

@Chad

To ask 'why did we allow the holocaust' is a lot to put on Christians. There was so much involved that brought this about. The first and most important is the Jews on guilt. When they had opportunity to free Christ, they chose instead a murderer. Pilate said he washed his hands of Jesus innocent blood. The Jews said in return, "...His blood be on us, and on our children." (Matt. 27:25) And so it has been, and will continue to be.

The victors of WWI brought Hitler to power in their treatment of the Germans by the Treaty of Versailles. They kicked them like a dead dog and made them admit they like it. Then when a strong figure such as Hitler rises up and tells them to be proud to be German, this is what they wanted. It struck the right tone at the right time. If you were German and Christian you would have felt the same.

And the Roman Church was Italian and Italy was allied to Germany, so the Roman Church would not be so quick to criticize Germany. The pope at that time would support Germany at the beginning. But when the final solution became known, he no longer did.

Plus, once the final solution began being played out, it was done in great secrecy. Most Germans didn't know of it. It was terrible of course, but a whole cauldron of ingredients went into creating the holocaust.

Also, as you pointed out, this got the Jews back to Israel. This was God's timing. He was ready to start populating Israel as a nation again in preparation for the last days events. Had God sent a prophet to Europe to call the Jews back to Israel, they would have laughed him to scorn. They were doing very well in Europe economically. You wouldn't have a got a row boat filled with Jews to go back to Israel. After the Holoacust, the ships were full of them ready to go.

Quantrill

Excellent post Quantrill!

 

[KingJ]

In dealing with the problem of evil in the world, we run into many problems like this one. Could God have prevented the Holocaust? Yes, He could have. He could also have prevented Stalin’s massacres in the U.S.S.R., the Spanish Inquisition’s torture of dissidents, and Nero’s reign of terror. In each case, God allowed evil men to exercise a certain amount of power for a short period of time.

Ultimately, we do not know the reasons for what God allows. His ways and thoughts are infinitely higher than ours (Isaiah 55:8-9). His sovereign plan takes in the whole scope of history, past, present, and future, encompassing every possible course of action, every cause and effect, every potentiality, and every contingency. There is no way we could possibly fathom the intricacies of His design. By faith, we trust that His plan is the best plan possible for restoring fallen humanity and a cursed world to righteousness and blessing.

But we can understand this: God’s permission is not the same as His approval. God allowed Adam to eat of the forbidden tree, but He did not approve of the action. In the same way, God’s allowing the Holocaust in no way suggests His approval of it. God is grieved by the sinfulness of man and the hardness of his heart (Genesis 6:6; Mark 3:5).

We also know that God has done everything possible to redeem us from the sin which would destroy us. He gave His only Son, who sacrificed His life for our sin and took our penalty. All who turn to Jesus Christ in faith are saved. The sin in this world, and horrors such as the Holocaust, are a direct result of mankind’s continued rebellion against God.

While nothing can justify the Holocaust, we do see at least one good thing which came from World War II: Israel now exists as a nation. The Holocaust was a primary reason the White Paper of 1939 was rescinded, freeing Jews to immigrate to Israel. The fact that, as of 1948, the Jews have a restored national identity helps to fulfill such biblical prophecies as Ezekiel 37 and Matthew 24. Defeating Nazism and giving the land of Israel back to the Jews is a classic example of God’s thwarting Satan’s plan and bringing about good in spite of the evil.

In all of His doings, God is just (Psalm 145:17). The blame for the Holocaust lies squarely on the shoulders of sinful humanity. The Holocaust was the product of sinful choices made by sinful men in rebellion against a holy God. If the Holocaust proves anything, it is the utter depravity of man. Just fourteen years after "the war to end all wars" (World War I), Hitler rose to power. What is even more shocking is that millions followed him, enabling his horrific policies and pursuing a path to national destruction.

And while Nazism took hold in Germany, where were the European churches? Some, it is true, stood fast against the evil in their midst, and some churchmen, such as Dietrich Bonhoeffer, paid the ultimate price for dissenting. But they were the minority. Most churches of the era acquiesced to Nazi Party rules and remained silent while the Jews were slaughtered. Where were the world leaders? Other than England’s Winston Churchill, the world’s politicos took the route of isolation or appeasement. Neither worked. Where were the good, decent people? Edmund Burke is often quoted as saying, "All that is necessary for evil to triumph in the world is for enough good men to do nothing." Although there were a few Germans and other Europeans such as Oscar Schindler and Corrie ten Boom and her family, who risked their lives to save thousands of Jews from annihilation, most remained silent and the Holocaust ensued. The question is not so much "Why did God allow the Holocaust?" but "Why did we?"

God gives mankind freedom of choice. We can choose to follow Him and take a stand for righteousness, or we can rebel against Him and pursue evil. The problem resides in the heart of man. "The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?" (Jeremiah 17:9). Until man’s heart turns to God, the world will continue to witness "ethnic cleansings," genocides, and atrocities such as the Holocaust.

original article: Why did God allow the Holocaust?

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Excellent post! I am in 100% agreement with every word here.

 

[KingJ]

I don't believe the holocaust ever happened, not like they tell it.
So my question would be why did God allow the Jew's to lie about the holocaust?
I think it comes down to God having his plan. Just like babies need to die from cancer or whatever. It's tough to comprehend. But I think we as humans were never designed to understand..
I believe if something happens, it happens for a reason, weather we understand it or not. Of course that's just my opinion. I believe we have choices, I believe we have a chance to do good and righteousness. I never understand why people think dying is a bad thing, like it's the worst thing to happen, yes to them.. Selfishness. This life means very little to me. I'm waiting to die patiently. There is obviously a plan for me.. And choices along the way, so I'll see.
So why does God allow bad things to happen?
1) because he can
2) it's only you who thinks it's 'bad'

Nobody needs to 'tell' it. There is video footage.

 

[KingJ]

This is a good and necessary thread. A Christian needs to have a good answer on such evil and wickedness as many are turned off God by such extreme evil. It is valid to ask why God permit such to take place. Among the unsaved and the saved.

What is hard for me to swallow on the holocaust specifically are four things: .1 The starvation in the concentration camps, 2. the experiments done on many children. 3. the gas chambers. They were very cruel. Some / most of the gas was not properly refined / effective and people suffered excruciating pain before they died. 4. The treatment of the Jews before the gas chambers. How they were lined up and stripped of all clothing. They were treated worse then cattle to the slaughter. Utterly dehumanized.

I am reminded of Rev 2:10 Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days.

This is why we have the saints ask God for vengeance in Rev 6:10 They called out in a loud voice, "How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood.

Even in heaven do they seek retribution on those that killed them. As there is no doubt whatsoever as to the degree of …….''Hatred''.

That is the key word here. There is utter hatred at work. This is why there will / needs to be a heaven and a hell.

What is key to grasp is 1. Christians, Jesus and God do not commit these atrocities. 2. God's punishment of the wicked may seem delayed, but it is coming.

The punishment coming is no joke. It is terrifying to think of oneself spending eternity with people who able to commit such wicked deeds. That is an undebatable fact of hell. Party? No. No innocents to hurt. Just unrepentant sinners with you for all eternity.

Because hell is for eternity, God '''has''' to allow true free will. True wickedness should be 'able' to exist if there is true free will.

True wickedness does exist. Therefore true free will does exist.

 

[MrBornAgain]

Nobody needs to 'tell' it. There is video footage.

Of Nazi's murdering Jews? Where I'd like to see it.
What, I believe you are referring to is all the dead bodies and mass graves that are regularly shown. That doesn't suggest a holocaust, it shows that people died. There was a war happening. Those dead people are a mixture of Jews, Germans, soldiers, and anyone else who died from typhus which was the number one killer, it was rife.
The zyklon-B that is reported to have been used was actually used to keep the Jews alive, it helped kill the disease (but not stopped it) as it was used as an antipestide.
Zyklon-B is a very very slow releasing gas that believe it or not would still be detectable today, this isn't the case as none have been found, the very slow releasing gas would also have turned overtime everything blue, which also isn't the case.
There is not one bit of evidence of has chambers, this is a myth created by jews for whatever reasons. The doors to the reported gas chambers were not secure.. Why would the nazis risk self harm?
The ovens you see as reported were actually ovens of a bakery, not the reported ovens of mass burnings, as this would be too slow a method even of true.. It would have taken absolute years near on 50 if I recall correctly to get the job done.
The reported death toll of six million was decided by the jews around the time of the first world war, there is newspaper documents recorded on this.
I have studied this for many years, I do not take delight on murders, but yes jews died there was a war on.. There were many deaths that come with war. But no holocaust.. There are even jewish scholars who don't believe there was a holocaust, now why would they go out their way to speak of such atrocities if true?

 

[MrBornAgain]

This is a good and necessary thread. A Christian needs to have a good answer on such evil and wickedness as many are turned off God by such extreme evil. It is valid to ask why God permit such to take place. Among the unsaved and the saved.

What is hard for me to swallow on the holocaust specifically are four things: .1 The starvation in the concentration camps, 2. the experiments done on many children. 3. the gas chambers. They were very cruel. Some / most of the gas was not properly refined / effective and people suffered excruciating pain before they died. 4. The treatment of the Jews before the gas chambers. How they were lined up and stripped of all clothing. They were treated worse then cattle to the slaughter. Utterly dehumanized.

I am reminded of Rev 2:10 Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days.

This is why we have the saints ask God for vengeance in Rev 6:10 They called out in a loud voice, "How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood.

Even in heaven do they seek retribution on those that killed them. As there is no doubt whatsoever as to the degree of …….''Hatred''.

That is the key word here. There is utter hatred at work. This is why there will / needs to be a heaven and a hell.

What is key to grasp is 1. Christians, Jesus and God do not commit these atrocities. 2. God's punishment of the wicked may seem delayed, but it is coming.

The punishment coming is no joke. It is terrifying to think of oneself spending eternity with people who able to commit such wicked deeds. That is an undebatable fact of hell. Party? No. No innocents to hurt. Just unrepentant sinners with you for all eternity.

Because hell is for eternity, God '''has''' to allow true free will. True wickedness should be 'able' to exist if there is true free will.

True wickedness does exist. Therefore true free will does exist.

The aim of the concentration camps were for jews to be used for labour, we could call this evil yes. It is only common sense that it wasn't ideal for people to be starving and weak as their efforts of work would be at little use. People were starving due to the fact enemies were bombing the trains to the Camp carrying food & other supplies. It wasn't intentional to starve people, it serves no purpose for a concentration camp.
As adults are have an obvious different body mass to children it would make little sense doing experiments on children, this also serves no purpose apart from torturing for pleasure, which I imagine being in a world war I'd assume they had more important things to be doing.
Yes the people of the camps were stripped of all belongings this makes sense as it would have caused infighting due to the poor attacking the well off, thus everybody got treated the same & dressed the same.
There isn't any documented evidence of gas chambers. The gas chambers you report of were built after the second world war as a trophy piece so the world could pitty the jews.
The gas chambers reportedly used didn't have efficient spray entering points, it just wouldn't have worked. Also the doors to the chambers were not secure at all, not for a death chamber, it would have risked death & sickness to the operating officers which would have defeated the object.
You can study all this if you have the time, it takes time. Or you could believe in what others tell you, which I believe is foolish.. People lie, especially those who have to gain from it. It is unfortunate that we have to live in a world full of lies and deceit but it is a one we live in. God really hated liars and it is a particular big issue he detests. It's best to stay away from such people & do your own research.

 

[KingJ]

People lie, especially those who have to gain from it

Who would that be?

 

[MrBornAgain]

Who would that be?

The Jewish people, the evil ones at that. Many 'survivors' have admitted lying, others have been found fraudulent. Do you know the amount of income they make from holocaust museums and Camp tours? If this isn't a gain from such I don't know what is.
The holocaust lie was used primarily to get the fake jews back to Israel, but financial gain is very important to them too.

 

[KingJ]

The Jewish people, the evil ones at that. Many 'survivors' have admitted lying, others have been found fraudulent. Do you know the amount of income they make from holocaust museums and Camp tours? If this isn't a gain from such I don't know what is.
The holocaust lie was used primarily to get the fake jews back to Israel, but financial gain is very important to them too.

Many make the same claim you do. There was even a film made about it. But with all due respect, this conspiracy theory is on par with the 'flat earth' theory.

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,

may i ask?

The Jewish people, the evil ones at that. Many 'survivors' have admitted lying, others have been found fraudulent. Do you know the amount of income they make from holocaust museums and Camp tours? If this isn't a gain from such I don't know what is.
The holocaust lie was used primarily to get the fake jews back to Israel, but financial gain is very important to them too.

how do you know?
Some pretty hard fact only, please. Spare any personal input, if you can.

Such statements have to be backed without any measure of doubt. A few internet quotes or references won't do, either.
Can you list me thirty of forty people you personally know who can verify what you state here? (30 -40 is not many)

you could believe in what others tell you, which I believe is foolish.

Bless you ....><>

 

[MrBornAgain]

Many make the same claim you do. There was even a film made about it. But with all due respect, this conspiracy theory is on par with the 'flat earth' theory.

Our biblical scripture also supports the flat earth theory many times over. There is no evidence of a ball shaped earth apart from fake images from NASA if you chose to believe it.

 

[Quantrill]

The Jewish people, the evil ones at that. Many 'survivors' have admitted lying, others have been found fraudulent. Do you know the amount of income they make from holocaust museums and Camp tours? If this isn't a gain from such I don't know what is.
The holocaust lie was used primarily to get the fake jews back to Israel, but financial gain is very important to them too.

Why do you believe these so called 'survivors'? Maybe they were lying to you. I think you are choosing who you want to believe.

Just because a museum makes money on remembering, doesn't mean the holocaust didn't occur.

Do you really believe the Jews put themselves through this suffering just to get back to a pile of rocks in the mideast?

How about Stalin? It is reported he killed many thousands if not millions of people. Was all that a lie also? How about 70 A.D. when the Romans destroyed the Jews. Was that a lie also?

How about Jesus Christ? Was He a Jew? Or was that a lie also?

Quantrill

 

[MrBornAgain]

Why do you believe these so called 'survivors'? Maybe they were lying to you. I think you are choosing who you want to believe.

Just because a museum makes money on remembering, doesn't mean the holocaust didn't occur.

Do you really believe the Jews put themselves through this suffering just to get back to a pile of rocks in the mideast?

How about Stalin? It is reported he killed many thousands if not millions of people. Was all that a lie also? How about 70 A.D. when the Romans destroyed the Jews. Was that a lie also?

How about Jesus Christ? Was He a Jew? Or was that a lie also?

Quantrill

Haha! That's funny you mention that..
Stalin slayed millions and millions and millions MORE lives than Hitler did.
Hitler to me was a good, kind hearted Christian man with good intentions, I understandanh cannot see this.. I do. Maybe I am wrong, but I'll fight to the death of what I feel is just..
I believe the jews suffered very very little, but claim all the damage, through their own narcissism and conspiracy to gain power, income and support. Are the jews that shallow to do such a thing? You might realise my answer to that.
the anti Christ, whom are you waiting for?... I see it clearly already in my lifetime.
Its honestly okay to disbelieve someone else's viewpoint, that's the benefit of free speaking, freedom of opinion.. Bit I would suggest if you disagree so much, everybody might benefit of you might stop posting, unless it's a question... A debatable one, or scriptural based.
Blessed weekend to you my friend.

 

[Quantrill]

Haha! That's funny you mention that..
Stalin slayed millions and millions and millions MORE lives than Hitler did.
Hitler to me was a good, kind hearted Christian man with good intentions, I understandanh cannot see this.. I do. Maybe I am wrong, but I'll fight to the death of what I feel is just..
I believe the jews suffered very very little, but claim all the damage, through their own narcissism and conspiracy to gain power, income and support. Are the jews that shallow to do such a thing? You might realise my answer to that.
the anti Christ, whom are you waiting for?... I see it clearly already in my lifetime.
Its honestly okay to disbelieve someone else's viewpoint, that's the benefit of free speaking, freedom of opinion.. Bit I would suggest if you disagree so much, everybody might benefit of you might stop posting, unless it's a question... A debatable one, or scriptural based.
Blessed weekend to you my friend.

How do you know Stalin killed millions more than Hitler?

I have no problem with you to be willing to die for what you believe. That is commendable. To give explanation for the holocaust and Hitler, which many do not even entertain, is one thing. To deny the holocaust and the suffering of the Jews, and to insinuate this was a plot made up by them, is another. And that is what you are saying.

Of course it's ok to disagree and not believe another's viewpoint. But, don't you want to be right in what you believe? Do you think you could be in error here?

Quantrill

 

[MrBornAgain]

How do you know Stalin killed millions more than Hitler?

I have no problem with you to be willing to die for what you believe. That is commendable. To give explanation for the holocaust and Hitler, which many do not even entertain, is one thing. To deny the holocaust and the suffering of the Jews, and to insinuate this was a plot made up by them, is another. And that is what you are saying.

Of course it's ok to disagree and not believe another's viewpoint. But, don't you want to be right in what you believe? Do you think you could be in error here?

Quantrill

I think the more people studied for themselves , and held their own opinion the world would be a better place, rather than believing the History they are taught to believe. I have nothing else to add, I have made my opinion clear.