Why did God Kill So Many Innocent People In The Book Of Joshua.

[Chopper]

Joshua 23:3 "And ye have seen all that the LORD your God hath done unto all these nations because of you; for the LORD your God is he that hath fought for you.
23:4 Behold, I have divided unto you by lot these nations that remain, to be an inheritance for your tribes, from Jordan, with all the nations that I have cut off, even unto the great sea westward.
23:5 And the LORD your God, he shall expel them from before you, and drive them from out of your sight; and ye shall possess their land, as the LORD your God hath promised unto you."

I have been an avid student of the Old Covenant (Testament) for years now. Each and every morning, I study several Chapters in the Old Covenant and in the New Covenant (Testament). I like a good understanding of both Covenants for a balanced view and understanding of what God has for me to understand and teach.

I have a Grandson named Chad. He is the Son of my only Son Skip. Skip and I have been praying and believing by faith that one day Chad will be saved. The title of this thread is his question to his Father and to me. So far, he says that he can't believe in a God that kills so many innocent people.

So, Lets talk about this very real difficulty that many more people than my Grandson have. I'm curious as to how you would answer the Question of the title of this thread? HAVE AT IT MY FELLOW THEOLOGIANS.

 

[KingJ]

Gen 15:16 says just about all we need to know. ''In the fourth generation your descendants will come back here, for the sin of the Amorites has not yet reached its full measure''.

We know that the Amorites were taken out, but not when there sin was not full measure.

If we look at every nation taken out we see that they were evil. No good people were taken out. Nations were taken out for the same reason all at the time of Noah were. For the same reason Sodom and Gomorrah was. Namely the level of evil was high. Good people and kids are easily corrupted / miss-treated in such an environment. We can never assume all go to hell. The flood was not God sending everyone bar 8 to hell. It was God bringing a very necessary change. Likewise with these nations being removed.

I have probably discussed almost every instance of nations being obliterated on atheist sites. There is scripture describing the evil of most of them. But if there is ever an absence of such, it is still not an issue as only simple common sense is needed.

Namely: The Jews just escaped Egypt after 400 years of slavery. EVERY person in the known world WOULD have known of such an event. It would have been the front page news on every newspaper. Those nations in the promised land were probably waiting in anticipation for their arrival. I am sure everyone was probably either wondering A. Where the heck are the Jews or B. God is clearly punishing / working hard on these people He rescued from Egypt. When they finally arrived in the promised land they were in need of help. It is estimated that there was two million of them. Now any good nation would offer help to them surely. For these reasons:

1. They have been wondering the desert for forty years. It should have sparked major humanitarian aid incentives.
2. The fact that they had survived the desert and escaped Egypt was evidence of God being with them. Everyone miss treating them should have known they were defying God.
3. The Jews lived by the harshest moral laws ever seen by mankind. Only a sick and evil person would not approve of and welcome them into their society. Jews never came with the intention to kill. They were clearly instructed by the prophets to love the foreigners that reside with them Lev 19:34.

 

[KingJ]

We can also add to this discussion the contrast of Nineveh to Sodom and Gomorrah.

All three warned about their sin being full measure. Only Nineveh responded by repenting and fasting for a month. God spared them.

 

[Brad Huber]

What make you think they were innocent?

 

[Chopper]

What make you think they were innocent?

Ahhh, I was wondering if someone would catch that statement. Good for you Brad. Of course they weren't innocent. They were a product of the wicked environment that they lived in namely worshiping false god's. The problem is, my Grandson see's them as innocent.

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

Jesus said "all who came before me were liars and thieves,but the sheep did not listen to them".
I would venture to say that all who came after him were thieves and liars also.

Jesus is a son and knows the father is love.
God is not a killer,he just takes the blame for what we do.
Shame on anyone who thinks God is a killer.

The Holy Spirit did not kill Ananias and or Sapphira either,their own fear did.
Love does not hate or kill.

Love is patient,love is kind,is not haughty or proud and does not demand it's own way.
Love also keeps no record of wrong so if your idea of God does not fit the description of love then
have you really listened to him?

Chad is a smart kid and won't be sucked in by liars and thieves.
When he hears the voice of love he will follow.
Scripture can be interpreted though the eyes of love and truth.

If you don't believe me ask Jesus.

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

Psalm 34:21 Evil shall slay the wicked: and they that hate the righteous shall be desolate.

So did God really tell people to kill?

 

[Chopper]

Jesus said "all who came before me were liars and thieves,but the sheep did not listen to them".
I would venture to say that all who came after him were thieves and liars also.

Jesus is a son and knows the father is love.
God is not a killer,he just takes the blame for what we do.
Shame on anyone who thinks God is a killer.

The Holy Spirit did not kill Ananias and or Sapphira either,their own fear did.
Love does not hate or kill.

Love is patient,love is kind,is not haughty or proud and does not demand it's own way.
Love also keeps no record of wrong so if your idea of God does not fit the description of love then
have you really listened to him?

Chad is a smart kid and won't be sucked in by liars and thieves.
When he hears the voice of love he will follow.
Scripture can be interpreted though the eyes of love and truth.

If you don't believe me ask Jesus.

Wow Thiscrosshurts. Yours is a very wise and truthful reply. Thank you for that good advise. I'll try and remember to love Chad to Jesus.

 

[RJ]

As you well know, the Old Covenant occurred or a vast amount of time from Noah to David and within itself, comprised the Noahic, Abrahamic, Mosaic and Davidic covenants. During each of these covenants, one thing that remained, he was a God of wrath by which he, more than likely, caused the death of the multitudes because of man's immorality and wickedness.
The carnal man objects to this but, the spiritual man sees God as God! He rules and governs everything. And everything he does is just and right and good. God owes us nothing.

During this period of wrath, I suppose you could say that God had his vengeance against many that didn't live by his perfectly moral standards and with such disdain for righteousness. You must admit, to get man to the point of establishing his nation, would have taken some heavy handed action, because, with free will, man wasn't go to correct man on his own. What would have become of his people if he didn't take action?

That gets us to a modern age , enter the death, burial and resurrection of his son and the ushering the last and final covenant, the New Covenant....a salvation not by laws, requirements and wrath but, because man was imperfect, a covenant of grace for those who would take it. Now, God is not angry, he is not even mad. His son appealed to his need for righteousness and took away our sin from his eyes and his wrath for those who believe.

But , as promised, his wrath will appear again for all those who do not accept and believe in him.
I pray for all unbelievers to come to God and be saved from his wrath!

 

[KingJ]

Why did God Kill So Many People In The Book Of Joshua.

This is why http://www.talkjesus.com/threads/children-sexually-tortured.55142/

 

[pajaro]

Hi Chopper,
The Bible is written in parable form. Psalm 78:1-2 tells us to listen to God's words (the Bible) and then says that he opens his mouth in a parable. The parable is the Bible. That is why Mark 4 spends so much time explaining how to understand or interpret parables. That is why Mark 4 says that the true believers have been given by God to understand parables (the Bible), but those who are unsaved do not have it given to them to understand. That is also why Mark 4 says that without a parable Jesus spake not unto them. In other words, he only spoke in parables. The book of Joshua is no different. The Hebrew name Joshua, for example, is essentially the same word that we use for Jesus. Instead of just a person from Old Testament days, in a parable sense Joshua is a picture of Jesus himself. When Joshua had to cross the Jordan with his followers, it was not just about a person from Old Testament days crossing a physical river. The word Jordan in Hebrew means Judgment. So we find that Jesus is able to take his followers past Judgment and come out on the other side, still alive. The twelve tribes that were with him are really parable pictures of all true believers. Do you see what I mean? When the Bible talks about victories of the true believers in the book of Joshua,and all God did to save them and keep them, and how their enemies where destroyed or perished, it is not really a story of physical battles so much as it is a parable picture of those who did not receive the gospel and those who did. Those who do not receive the gospel do indeed perish (they are destroyed and are no more) whereas those who do receive the gospel are part of those who follow Jesus (Joshua's twelve tribes to use parable language) and indeed receive eternal life with him. Why does God open the heart of one person to receive him but not another. That is really God's business. The Bible says it is a matter of God's election. To me, the book of Joshua is not saying that God loves people perishing. Rather, it is saying that Jesus provides the gospel and those who reject it and him perish. Those who receive him live.

 

[Hekuran]

[QUOTE="pajaro, post: 273602, member: 30171"When the Bible talks about victories of the true believers in the book of Joshua,and all God did to save them and keep them, and how their enemies where destroyed or perished, it is not really a story of physical battles so much as it is a parable picture of those who did not receive the gospel and those who did.[/QUOTE]

I get the point, and accept it to some degree, but I think that this sidesteps the problems rather than deal with them.

I wouldn't like to try to convince the Amorites, the Perizzites, the Canaanites, the Hittites, the Girgashites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites that they were put to the sword in order to illustrate a wider spiritual truth.

 

[Chopper]

As you well know, the Old Covenant occurred or a vast amount of time from Noah to David and within itself, comprised the Noahic, Abrahamic, Mosaic and Davidic covenants. During each of these covenants, one thing that remained, he was a God of wrath by which he, more than likely, caused the death of the multitudes because of man's immorality and wickedness.
The carnal man objects to this but, the spiritual man sees God as God! He rules and governs everything. And everything he does is just and right and good. God owes us nothing.

During this period of wrath, I suppose you could say that God had his vengeance against many that didn't live by his perfectly moral standards and with such disdain for righteousness. You must admit, to get man to the point of establishing his nation, would have taken some heavy handed action, because, with free will, man wasn't go to correct man on his own. What would have become of his people if he didn't take action?

That gets us to a modern age , enter the death, burial and resurrection of his son and the ushering the last and final covenant, the New Covenant....a salvation not by laws, requirements and wrath but, because man was imperfect, a covenant of grace for those who would take it. Now, God is not angry, he is not even mad. His son appealed to his need for righteousness and took away our sin from his eyes and his wrath for those who believe.

But , as promised, his wrath will appear again for all those who do not accept and believe in him.
I pray for all unbelievers to come to God and be saved from his wrath!

Thank you my friend RJ. I must say, of all the folk that I've met here in the Forum, from when I was active last year, and am back now, you are my favorite Brother to converse with. Somehow, thru the Spirit of God, we are knit together IMO. Hope you don't mind that I love you in Jesus.

Also thank you for your reply to this thread. Yes, I agree with your findings.

 

[Chopper]

This is why http://www.talkjesus.com/threads/children-sexually-tortured.55142/

Wow, that's disgusting. I signed the petition. May God deal harshly with those perverts. Save them if possible.

 

[Chopper]

Hi Chopper,
The Bible is written in parable form. Psalm 78:1-2 tells us to listen to God's words (the Bible) and then says that he opens his mouth in a parable. The parable is the Bible. That is why Mark 4 spends so much time explaining how to understand or interpret parables. That is why Mark 4 says that the true believers have been given by God to understand parables (the Bible), but those who are unsaved do not have it given to them to understand. That is also why Mark 4 says that without a parable Jesus spake not unto them. In other words, he only spoke in parables. The book of Joshua is no different. The Hebrew name Joshua, for example, is essentially the same word that we use for Jesus. Instead of just a person from Old Testament days, in a parable sense Joshua is a picture of Jesus himself. When Joshua had to cross the Jordan with his followers, it was not just about a person from Old Testament days crossing a physical river. The word Jordan in Hebrew means Judgment. So we find that Jesus is able to take his followers past Judgment and come out on the other side, still alive. The twelve tribes that were with him are really parable pictures of all true believers. Do you see what I mean? When the Bible talks about victories of the true believers in the book of Joshua,and all God did to save them and keep them, and how their enemies where destroyed or perished, it is not really a story of physical battles so much as it is a parable picture of those who did not receive the gospel and those who did. Those who do not receive the gospel do indeed perish (they are destroyed and are no more) whereas those who do receive the gospel are part of those who follow Jesus (Joshua's twelve tribes to use parable language) and indeed receive eternal life with him. Why does God open the heart of one person to receive him but not another. That is really God's business. The Bible says it is a matter of God's election. To me, the book of Joshua is not saying that God loves people perishing. Rather, it is saying that Jesus provides the gospel and those who reject it and him perish. Those who receive him live.

Thank you pajaro. I receive your instruction with a happy heart of understanding. Indeed, I see what happens in the Old Covenant (Testament) a glimpse of the final judgment of Judge Jesus the Son of God. The wicked are cast into the Lake of Fire to their destruction and the righteous in the Christ of God, to eternal life.

 

[RJ]

Thank you my friend RJ. I must say, of all the folk that I've met here in the Forum, from when I was active last year, and am back now, you are my favorite Brother to converse with. Somehow, thru the Spirit of God, we are knit together IMO. Hope you don't mind that I love you in Jesus.

Also thank you for your reply to this thread. Yes, I agree with your findings.

Love you too...wish we knew each other better!
Aren't we all to be "one in the spirit, one in the Lord"!

 

[KingJ]

May God deal harshly with those perverts. Save them if possible.

These were my exact thoughts.

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

What could be more wrathful than not knowing the love of God.
What would the wrath love look like anyway.Maybe power hugs?

The wrath of God is really just the lack of God's love,because God is love.
If we are not walking in the joyful love that the presence of God brings then we are already experiencing wrath by or own choice.
All are potential children of our father and we are empowered to set them free.

Chopper you have chosen to overlook the present condition of your grandson and see him as free,but not yet realizing it.
It's easy because you love him and remember who he was when he was innocent.You won't give up because you know the real one that he is and you choose not to judge him by what the world has done to him.You have chosen to withhold that from his mother and still expose her sin to the world.Maybe since Chad is 50% of her there could be a love conflict.She was 4 years old once and I don't think she wants to be the way she is.
Let's both forgive her right now and remember who she is in Christ and see her as set free but not yet realizing or experiencing it.

If we are going to judge why can't the judgement be "not guilty by reason of the insanity of living in a world without God's love".

John 20:23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

The problem is, my Grandson see's them as innocent.

That's not really a problem ,in fact it is the solution.Your Grandson understands love and he is not going to leave anyone behind because even the marines who are not love do that.Once you know the love of God you will never go back into the world.Love keeps no record of wrongs and does not demand it's own way.Love just loves and conquers all things by doing so.Jesus showed us the Father's love by not attacking when attacked.
Because love does not know attack it can only respond with what it knows and that is love.

What did Jesus mean by "all who came before me were and thieves?
Did God really tell men to go and kill?
Or did thieves hijack his reputation?

What did Jesus do?Attack,defend or take the blame?

 

[Chopper]

Love you too...wish we knew each other better!
Aren't we all to be "one in the spirit, one in the Lord"!

Yes, we are to be one in the Spirit my friend. Wow, it would be wonderful if we lived closer to each other so we could have coffee together, discuss spiritual matter, and pray. Hey, you never know!