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Why I am against organised religion

I have no doubt that we all believe that what we know is truth and given of GOd but we must be weary that it is totally possible that we are wrong thats all im saying.
I agree with this of course, the problem with lots of folks is they are so dead set in their religious theories ( and that is what they really are theories) even when someone presents unquestionable Biblical evidence that undeniably proves their theories to be completely wrong they STILL refuse to repent from teaching, supporting and defendingnthose lies.

We all should have a teachable spirit, but many Christians who profess to have a teachable spirit do not.

Yes we can only rely on what we have studied in prayer and what we know to be true from our own studies and we should but we should always be open to the fact that we in our human state can make incorrect judgments.
Again I agree with you, but the sad thing is in too many cases this is not always happens.

I know a lady who has started comming to our church and she used to be penticostal and GOd showed her in dreams some errores. yet she had a relationship with GOd for years before that. sometimes GOd does not show us our errors because we at that time may not be able to take it.
Dreams sometimes can be very dangerous.

Not every spirit that enters into our dreams is a spirit that has been sent to us from God, we must always remember that the devil can also cause himself to appear to us as an Angel of light so if I were in a similiar circumstance I would be very prayerfully cautious before statintg emphatically that the dream had actually come from God.

I agree we should hold to what we know and have studied but always be mindful that even our most sacredly held truths can sometimes be corrected by our Father in heaven. this is why we must be humble and teachable before the Lord.
The Holy Ghost must always be our one primarily essential Spiritual guide and teacher in all that we do and say as servants of Jesus Christ.

Be teachable yes, but we must be always be prepared and willing at all times to sit at the feet of the master teacher, the Holy Ghost.

My whole point is even though we believe that we are right in what we teach does not mean we go around denouncing all othere faiths because in truth we no not if we are denouncing GOds truth in some form and GOd has His people in all walks of life and they will be lead to truth by GOd and we hinder that process by putting every other faith in a bad light. although its one thing to say everyone else is wrongful stop. than to say I believe I have found GOd and His truth. blessings I hope this was clear.

We must be ready to warn ofm any false teaching that may arise in the body of Christ especially those false doctrines which may eventually result in the eternal harm of those who may be taught those lies.

As an example I am very adamantly opposed to the doctrine of Eternal Security, not because I am not confident that God is able, to keep me, or that I am not confident that the blood of jesus Christ was sufficient to pay for my salvation, I am very confident of the Gospel of Jesus Christ and am VERY confident in Gods eternal faithfulness.

BUT man CAN and very often does throw away his salvation BY choosing to sin, and no one sins accidently we do it intentionally.

There are aslo other doctrinal points that I am opposed to, but as I have said many times before I am willing to prayerfully read and thoroughly investigate and evaluate sound Biblical evidence to see if the things I am opposed to are in fact Scripturally sound, or if the things that I believe are not.

And If I am proven by this Bilical evidence to be wrong in either case I am also willing to repent......
 
I understand what you are saying gotime, we mustn't think we know everything yes, because we don't and no matter how old we are we still have a lot to learn. But there is still only one truth, and what if I believe I know something to be that truth? What if I believe God wants me to tell others about that truth? Telling someone that truth would mean that what they believe isn't true. God uses us to teach each other too, the Holy Spirit how ever will guide us into all truth.

John 8:31,32 "If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."

John 16:13 "But when he, the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all truth."


We also can't sit back and let everyone be wrong in their ways, especially those that think they are living for Christ, but are not. If we know something it is our duty to tell them otherwise their blood is on our hands. Would you not warn a blind man of a car coming when he is trying to cross the road? Or a child you see getting too close to the edge of a pool? If something goes wrong, you will feel guilty. Same on judgment day. When God says, "I told you the truth and you didn't tell others who are now in hell".

I always pray in every situation that God will convict me if I'm wrong and that He will show me the truth no matter what. I pray that God will show me my errors daily especially after making a post or telling someone what I believe to be true and I have no doubt that God will show me if I'm wrong and if He doesn't then I know that I was listening to Him and not myself.

I believe I am teachable and humble before the Lord, but I must also be preach His word, in season and out of season to the ends of the earth. To believers and non-believers alike. We all have a lot to learn and time is running out.

So I agree with you that we should be teachable but we should still teach. And teaching other denominations or people about other denominations is not denouncing them - it is educating them.

Romans 10:14-15 " How then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written, 'How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!'"

You see Paul was confident that he was speaking the truth he didn't doubt what the Holy Spirit was telling him, yet he was always humble before the Lord.

He said: Romans 9:1 "I speak the truth in Christ - I am not lying, my conscience confirms it in the Holy Spirit - I have great sorrow and increasing anguish in my heart."
 
God confirms what is His Word

Mark 16:20
And they went forth, and preached every where,
the Lord working with them, and confirming the word
with signs following.
Amen.​

1Cor 2:3-5
And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling.
And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom,
but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:
That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men,
but in the power of God.
 
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The contemporary church isn't necessarily unbiblical, but they are lacking in many areas which are misleading millions of people. They choose to teach the doctrines that suit them and leave out the most vital parts. It has become more man-centered and less Biblical. Therefore what they are teaching is wrong and I know this because I believe I know the truth, I believe it has been revealed to me through the Holy Spirit and if I don't believe it is so then I would (in my mind) be calling God a liar.

It sounds complicated because it is complicated to explain so I hope you got that. In short, if we didn't believe what we believed in then in essence we never really believed it in the first place. Make sense?

George Barna called this "A biblical" in his book "Revolution".
 
Don't know George Barna and haven't read his book. Please can you elobrate?

an excerpt taken from "Revolution" by George Barna

There is nothing inherently wrong with being involved in a local church. But realize that being part of a group that calls itself a "church" does not make you saved, holy, righteous, or godly any more than being in Yankee Stadium makes you a professional baseball player. Participating in church-based activities does not necessarily draw you closer to God or prepare you for a life that satifies Him or enhances your existence. Being a member of a congregation does not make you spiritually righteous any more than being a member of the Democratic Party makes you a liberal wing nut.

Being in a right relationship with God and His people is what matters. Scripture teaches us that devoting your life to loving God with all your heart, mind, strength, and soul is what honors Him. Being part of a local church may facilitate that. Or it may not.

Sadly, many people will label this view "blasphemy". However, you should realize that the bible neither describes nor promotes the local church as we know it today. Many centuries ago relgious leaders created the prevalent form of "church" that is so widespread in our society to help people be better followers of Christ. But the local church many have come to cherish- the services, offices, programs, buildings, ceremonies- is either biblical nor unbiblical. It is abiblical- that is, such an organization is not addressed in the Bible.
 
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an excerpt taken from "Revolution" by George Barna

There is nothing inherently wrong with being involved in a local church. But realize that being part of a group that calls itself a "church" does not make you saved, holy, righteous, or godly any more than being in Yankee Stadium makes you a professional baseball player. Participating in church-based activities does not necessarily draw you closer to god or prepare you for a life that satifies Him or enhances your existence. Being a member of a congregation does not make you spiritually righteous any more than being a member of the Democratic Party makes you a liberal wing nut.

Being in a right relationship with God and His people is what matters. Scripture teaches us that devoting your life to loving God with all your heart, mind, strength, and soul is what honors Him. Being part of a local church may facilitate that. Or it may not.

Sadly, many people will label this view "blasphemy". However, you should realize that the bible neither describes nor promotes the local church as we know it today. Many centuries ago relgious leaders created the prevalent form of "church" that is so widespread in our society to help people be better followers of Christ. But the local church many have come to cherish- the services, offices, programs, buildings, ceremonies- is either biblical nor unbiblical. It is abiblical- that is, such an organization is not addressed in the Bible.


Seems like this man has a head on his shoulders. He has pretty much said a lot of what I've been trying to say.

Don't know much about him so I can't speak for anything other than what you've quoted here.

Thanx
 
quantify and regulate

I qoute from lyrics by Winterborne Inquest:

"did the devil think it funny
could the devil even see
when Jesus held my hand
as the church was failing me..."

This thing that passes for church in this world nearly destroyed my life on more than one occasion.
I cherish to this day a sacred hate for the need to quantify and regulate a relationship between man and God.
 
response to Organized

I agree that many churches have made themselves like a country club or social club, and with their charisma they project Christ as a product, with attractive new ideas in order to impress and flatter people, which way is driven by secular principles and practices, that has no lot in Christ. Nevertheless, I would say that as the original Churches were for the most part, “in the Church that is in their house”, was yet organized to the extent, that an orderly discussion was conducted, even I´m sure, when there was debates of an issue; but what I loved about the original Churches was, that most often they lasted all the day long, because fellowship was that important to them at that time, whereas now, for some unknown reason, fellowships limit themselves to an hour or so; but it seems to me that it ought to be the priority in every professing Christians life, and our secular matters should have to wait behind Christ in all things! Churches in someones house is intimate, and surely brings fellowship close in each others mutual faith. Our Lord drew large crowds, and so did the Apostles, yet when they dispersed, they would always have a Church fellowship in their house.
The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you.
 
I would just like to say first of all, I love you all Brothers and Sisters, and I love that we can come here together to speak about these matters with each other, with careful rebuking, and discipline in these matters.

I agree with a lot of what you guys said, I've had a problem with organized churches for quite some time now, I've come to dislike organized churches, I love the people, I just hate what they've made it into. I think it really boils down to, a lot of times, that the pastor wants more people to come to his church so that he can have more offerings, and more money, now I know that's bold to say, but it's just my opinion if you think I'm wrong please show me and I don't mind being corrected [:

I see a lot of times the people glorifying the church instead of our Lord and Savior Christ Jesus! Is it not suppose to upset us? Why should we stand by and let our Lord's name be slandered and put in such a bad light! I for one am not going to stand by and let this happen. But, I think a lot of what we see, all this seperation, it's mostly happening in america, as far as Christian churches go. I think if you go to a third world country, you'll see that the people go to church to be united as One in Christ, and they truly come together to have fellowship and encourage each other in Brotherly or Sisterly love! It's not about how nice you look, or whatever it's about for a lot of people, it's about coming together to bring glory to our Lord Jesus. I want to be apart of THAT, not a money hungry church, looking for more people to fill their pockets full of offerings, no offense.

If I sound angry at all, I apologize, I just don't like seeing what organized church has done to Christianity. I for one am going to stay away from it, I will focus on having fellowship and worship with my Brothers and Sisters in Christ, and that's it.

God bless you all.
 
I would just like to say first of all, I love you all Brothers and Sisters, and I love that we can come here together to speak about these matters with each other, with careful rebuking, and discipline in these matters.

I agree with a lot of what you guys said, I've had a problem with organized churches for quite some time now, I've come to dislike organized churches, I love the people, I just hate what they've made it into. I think it really boils down to, a lot of times, that the pastor wants more people to come to his church so that he can have more offerings, and more money, now I know that's bold to say, but it's just my opinion if you think I'm wrong please show me and I don't mind being corrected [:

I see a lot of times the people glorifying the church instead of our Lord and Savior Christ Jesus! Is it not suppose to upset us? Why should we stand by and let our Lord's name be slandered and put in such a bad light! I for one am not going to stand by and let this happen. But, I think a lot of what we see, all this seperation, it's mostly happening in america, as far as Christian churches go. I think if you go to a third world country, you'll see that the people go to church to be united as One in Christ, and they truly come together to have fellowship and encourage each other in Brotherly or Sisterly love! It's not about how nice you look, or whatever it's about for a lot of people, it's about coming together to bring glory to our Lord Jesus. I want to be apart of THAT, not a money hungry church, looking for more people to fill their pockets full of offerings, no offense.

If I sound angry at all, I apologize, I just don't like seeing what organized church has done to Christianity. I for one am going to stay away from it, I will focus on having fellowship and worship with my Brothers and Sisters in Christ, and that's it.

God bless you all.

I think the bottom line is simple, "going to church" is not referring to the same entity as "being the church".
 
Hi kenod,

Throughout history, organised religion has always been antagonistic to the working of the Holy Spirit in the Church....In the early 20th century, the established churches opposed the Pentecostal movement, although nearly 100 years later, the Pentecostal-Charismatic movement has influenced most denominations....If God has a new direction for the Body of Christ, we can be sure that the organised churches will oppose it.

The seal of God is the Holy Spirit (2 Cor 1:22; Eph 4:30). All those who do not have this seal will have the mark of the beast. The Catholic church is the original and mother of all denominations. This organisational structure is described as a ***** and her daughters, the protestant denominations, are called harlots (Rev 17:5 KJV). There are approximately 2 billion Christians in the world, with half being Catholic and half being Protestant. I believe the ‘beast’ represents the catholic system headed by the Pope – the ‘image to the beast’ is the system of organised protestant religion.

I noticed in this pruning of the churches, I did not see any mention of the Gospel of Jesus Christ; just the result of the Gospel. Although I am not catholic nor a member of the presbytery any more, having my fill of the different denomenations that focussed on the Holy Spirit, I feel I should share this with you.

#1. Those without the seal of the Holy Spirit can still receive Him by coming to and believing in Jesus Christ. Ephesians 1:12-15 & Galatians 3:14 & Hebrews 11:1,6

#2. Those that have the mark of the beast, can never be redeemed so it is an apparent mark, not the absence of the seal of the Holy Spirit.

#3. As much as you oppose organized religion, the root of the Pentecostal churches started in the root beginnings of the Roman Catholic Church where "tongues" were "evidence of the keeping of the doctrines within the Catholic Church". It was a practise within the order of the Church as in priests and the like, but when these "happenings" began outside the Roman Church later on in history, the Church now endorsed it as you must know, since there are Catholic Charismatic Churches about.

#4. We are to test the spirits, and just going with the flow and along with the crowd as in any movement of the Spirit occurs is not testing the spirits. Many would take your stance of opposing organized religion that would speak against the practise of having time for prayer language to the extreme of calling for the Spirit of God to come and fall on them with manifestations not listed in 1 Corinthians 12. All that is being glorified is the movement of the Spirit, and not the Gospel of Our Lord Jesus, because even with the Gospel preached, people walk away testifying of the "Spirit", and yet the Promise of the Spirit is always the result of the Gospel. Nowhere in Acts or anyplace in the Bible will the Gospel be vain to the point that preaching Jesus Christ is not enough, that salvation comes by baptism of the Holy Spirit with tongues.

So God sent the precedent for organized religion because there is only one Way to approach God and that is through the Son... not just for salvation, but in following Him also as Jesus is the Good Shepherd and not just the Saviour.

The body of believers is the church. It is also known as the Bride. Since Jesus is the Bridegroom, then the relationship with God has to be through the Son. That is Whom the indwelling Holy Spirit is pointing to and seeks to tesify thereby glorify Jesus Christ and if we are led by the Spirit of God, we would be doing that which the Holy Spirit is doing because John 5:22-23 says we cannot honour God the Father by honouring the Holy Spirit nor can we glorify God the Father by glorifying the Holy Spirit (John 13:31-32 & John 17:1-5) We can only honour and glorify the Father through the Son. The relationship of trust with God is to come to the Son and follow Him. To break away from that relationship to go chasing after what wayward believers are claiming to be the Holy Spirit is to become a worker of iniquity.

So consider that in the pruning of the churches in according to our faith in Jesus. God provided One Way to approach Him John 14:6 as there is only One Mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus. These "workings" of the Holy Spirit that is being exalted is happening across all the denomenations, fulfilling the fruit of the false prophet in its gathering of grapes of thorns and figs of thistles; the "holy laughter" movement of 1994, to which I am sure if anyone opposed that, would be considered as organized religion.... and yet it is happening all across the denomenations that has been condemned as organized religion.

All that has changed is people's testimony of the Gospel by implying that coming to and believing in Jesus does not guarantee the promise of the Spirit so that there is no rest in Jesus as one must seek the Holy Spirit... which is apostasy. They believe it because of what has happened to them long after they had believed in Jesus and since they do not understand it, they look to the Book of Acts to declare what that experience was, without testing the spirits in how they were taking their eyes off of Jesus to stealing the spotlight in the worship service.... which the indwelling Holy Spirit would never do nor exalt the name of the Spirit in "its" movement over Jesus' name. But because of creeds and unscriptural hymnals, they left the door open for the other spirits and suffer their houses to be broken through when they honour the Spirit on the Day of Pentecost or whenever... as in the privacy of the believers' home to get hit with the Spirit and with speaking in tongues, causing confusion since it was not in accordance to hearing the Gospel just prior. One lady went to the pastor to explain the event, and he went to the Book of Acts, saying that is what happened. She testified of other believers doing other things when they got hit with it.

All these other spirits do is change their testimony of the Gospel without them even realizing it. They just voided all the promises in coming to Jesus to rest in Him as hearers will believe they must experience that to know they are saved.

And yet, all those that call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.... not all those that call upon the name of the "Spirit" shall be saved.

Jesus told me that no one will listen and so judgment must come. God will do the pruning to restore the faith of those left behind at the rapture event for He will not lose one, but because there will be a loss of the inheritance, God "will have to wipe" the tears from their eyes to get them past the weeping and gnashing of teeth.

He shall prune away the commitment to follow Christ, Promise Keepers, any religious yoke that they cannot finish by the flesh. but Jesus will finish it, and those that sow to the flesh.. and any works that deny Him that bought them... as in catholicism and/or chasing after the Holy Spirit when He is in them as promised.

Jesus is the Gospel. The manifestations of the Spirit is sent to glorify Jesus, not the Spirit. God the Father did not mention the Holy Spirit at all when He descended from Heaven and alighted like a dove on the Son. God the Father just mentioned the Son as the Holy Spirit glorified the Son. So let us narrow the way back to the Bridegroom: Jesus Christ... because climbing up by any other way is a work of iniquity. John 10:1 & Luke 13:24-30 Decide this day Whom you will serve; the Lord Jesus Christ, or something else in His name... and even then, I needed His help to do even that... as I need His help to let go of those that hear Him not.
 
while many statments here are true one must remember that even the early church understood that there has to be structure and organisation for Gods message to go out properly and thus we have the church. it has never been or will never be perfect until Jesus comes back. read the epistles etc they had many problems even then.

just because there are bad people who missuse faith etc does not make religion wrong. if you go with that thought then there is nothing right religious or not because everywhere you go there are people. just a thought

Blessings
 
Thanks for the endput, but if we are in Christ, we need the coming together of other
Christians, and if we come together, we need a place to get together. A hill side is fine in the summer, but would be cold in the winter. So then someone said, Hey, I got
an idea, let's build a structure we can use to come together in. Therefore, we now have church building. Come on guys, you can't put everyone in the same bag.

That's Jesus's job to separate the wheat from the tares on the last day.

God bless
 
Thanks for the endput, but if we are in Christ, we need the coming together of other
Christians, and if we come together, we need a place to get together. A hill side is fine in the summer, but would be cold in the winter. So then someone said, Hey, I got
an idea, let's build a structure we can use to come together in. Therefore, we now have church building. Come on guys, you can't put everyone in the same bag.

That's Jesus's job to separate the wheat from the tares on the last day.

God bless

Yes, congregating together in a church building for communal worship is helpful to our Christian life. But accepting the limits of a church creed, rather than seeking the full revelation of God's Word personally, is what I am against.

Denominational organisations have historically opposed every move of God because they have to protect their established position.

Christianity must be an individual, personal experience, although we can certainly gain strength by worshipping with other believers.
 
Yes, congregating together in a church building for communal worship is helpful to our Christian life. But accepting the limits of a church creed, rather than seeking the full revelation of God's Word personally, is what I am against.

Denominational organisations have historically opposed every move of God because they have to protect their established position.

Christianity must be an individual, personal experience, although we can certainly gain strength by worshipping with other believers.

"Forsake not the gathering of the saints" ..He speaks for himself, concerning His body.



Not even.. " the gates of hell shall not prevail against.."
..if it's a move of God, how than does a move of man supercede the power of God??


Just wanted to ask ;)

LoJ
 
"Forsake not the gathering of the saints" ..He speaks for himself, concerning His body.



Not even.. " the gates of hell shall not prevail against.."
..if it's a move of God, how than does a move of man supercede the power of God??


Just wanted to ask ;)

LoJ

A "move of man" can never supersede the power of God ... but men can - and have - opposed what God is doing. A good example is the religious leaders in the time when Jesus was on earth. Another is the time of the Reformation.
 
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"I have never united myself to any church, because I have found difficulty in giving my assent without mental reservation, to the long complicated statements of Christian doctrine which characterizes their Articles of Belief and Confessions of Faith.

When any church will inscribe over its altar as its sole qualification for membership the Savior's condensed statement of both Law and Gospel, 'thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and thy neighbor as thyself' that church will I join with all my heart and all my soul" [Abraham Lincoln]<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
 
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