Why pastors and preachers should not be receiving salaries

[Enxu]

All of God’s priests, apostles and prophets were allowed to receive material goods from believers because they had the primary job of preaching the truth and the Gospel. Those material goods were received ONLY to satisfy their most basic needs like food, water, clothing and shelter.

But modern day constitutional Churches turned the job of preaching into an enterprise, and instead of receiving material things to satisfy only basic needs, pastors and teachers are getting rich from preaching while most of the hearers who give them money are poorer than them or live in poverty. The poor are ignored while the preachers get millions of income. This is against the very teachings of Jesus and His apostles. Even the apostle Paul supported his ministry through tent making, to set a good example.

Repent you leaders of the church.

 

[Enxu]

2 Peter 2:3
Thirsting for riches, they will trade on you with their canting talk. From of old their judgement has been working itself out, and their destruction has not been slumbering.

 

[Sue D.]

Pastors are Usually on-the-job 24/7 -- their congregation Needs to support them in a very respectful , appreciative way.

 

[Enxu]

Pastors are Usually on-the-job 24/7 -- their congregation Needs to support them in a very respectful , appreciative way.

I’m not against supporting the NEEDS of pastors, which in all its entirety consists of nothing more than food, water, clothing and shelter (if they are in foreign land preaching). I am against pastors turning the work of God into a profit making business much like how most secular jobs function, and end up peddling the word of God for money and getting rich at the disregard of those who are poorer than them.

Jesus’ apostles have already set the examples of what is true preaching: giving freely what they received freely, carrying no money in their bags during preaching and not being greedy for profit. They even worked to support themselves like Paul did so they don’t take anything from the church for their needs. They commanded their successors like Timothy, who are the pastors after them to follow in their examples.

Modern day preachers and pastors, when peddling God’s Gospel for money and turning the job of preaching into a profit making enterprise, are not following the examples of the apostles and they have turned God’s house of prayer into a den of robbers which Jesus was very angry with in His day against the profit making businesses done at God’s house.

 

[Enxu]

What was Paul’s attitude in preaching the Gospel? He set an example of not taking anything from the church by selling tents to support his own basic needs and he was willing to do anything so that the Gospel will not be evilly spoken of. He denied his right to be supported by the church to motivate the church to pursue God and His righteousness.

Today pastors have turned preaching into a profit making job and they take from their hearers what they don’t even need. Their salaries go not only into paying bills and basic needs, they use them to buy cars, houses and accumulate possessions on earth which Jesus said we are not to do because our treasures are to be in heaven.

Worse yet, they ask for money during preaching, something the apostles never did, and they make themselves look like conmen to those who already have doubts about God. I had an ex classmate who told me she and her family rejected the Gospel precisely because the church was always asking for money. So the Gospel is being evil spoken of because of an act of asking for money. Will Paul agree with the pastors today? Obviously not. He will rebuke the pastors for causing the Gospel to be rejected by their own selfish actions.

The apostles never asked for money or any kind of support from the church. The church willingly supported them out of love and from hearing FREELY the Gospel. By asking for money, pastors violate this principle of “freely give what you freely received” and set bad examples and give the enemy occasion to accuse and slander the truth. How will pastors answer to God on the day of judgment for what they did? They caused the Gospel to be rejected by asking for money, and allowed the enemy to accuse them of hypocrisy and greed and allowed the enemy to plant lies in the unbelievers saying that all Christians are conmen? Yet they do nothing to remedy the situation, and make zero effort to GIVE NO OCCASION for the enemy to slander.

 

[Enxu]

Why do I object pastors asking to be paid and asking for money? Not because I am against them being supported with basic needs, because by asking for money unbelievers accuse Christianity of being hypocritical and even reject the Gospel as false because Christian pastors look like conmen when they ask for money! My ex classmate and her family rejected the Gospel precisely because the church looked like conmen for asking money every service!

Are they totally wrong? No! Conmen of all sorts will always ask for money and that’s how people will judge us when WE ask money from them. Then some people will give excuses and say we should not be bothered by false accusations. But is this the attitude we should have when criticised?

Ask yourselves, are you doing something righteous by asking for money? Obviously not! So if you are accused as conmen, then it is not a defense for you to say you are falsely accused. People have every right to question your motives when you ask for money because the world is full of examples of how conmen profit by asking for money. So how can you defend yourself as innocent when your actions are as dubious as real conmen?

So if you really want to remedy the situation, you ought to stop asking for money rather than make excuses and justify what you did. Paul will not even eat if it causes someone to stumble, what are the pastors today willing to do so God’s Gospel will not be rejected because of their own actions? Ask yourselves pastors because you will be judged more severely for being teachers! I do not know your hearts but God does, how do you answer to God on the day of judgment when your actions of asking for money caused people to turn away from hearing the Gospel of Christ?

 

[Sue D.]

We aren't living in the days of the New Testament. Here in the U.S., churches reach out to prospective pastors to come to their congregations,. they offer a specific salary commensurate to that particular geographic area.

 

[Enxu]

We aren't living in the days of the New Testament. Here in the U.S., churches reach out to prospective pastors to come to their congregations,. they offer a specific salary commensurate to that particular geographic area.

Not living in the NT times is not an excuse for anything. There is a church even today I know of that has unpaid pastors. I have presented the concerns of having a paid system, let those who claim to love God judge themselves and their consciences.

 

[Sue D.]

Well -- we Do live in this day and age. We can very much love God And pay our pastors as well -- like most churches Do. There Are bi-vocational pastors but why should they Have to be. Pastors do a great deal For their congregations.
Jesus Christ wasn't sitting down writing His sermons. He Was the sermon. He was performing miracles to show mankind to His Father.

 

[Enxu]

Well -- we Do live in this day and age. We can very much love God And pay our pastors as well -- like most churches Do. There Are bi-vocational pastors but why should they Have to be. Pastors do a great deal For their congregations.
Jesus Christ wasn't sitting down writing His sermons. He Was the sermon. He was performing miracles to show mankind to His Father.

If pastors are attracted to work for a particular church based on the size of the paycheck, they are already there for the wrong reasons. This is the greed and hypocrisy that is being promoted by all the church salary systems. The wrong people are on the pulpit because a good number of them are in a church because of how big the salary is. Paul laid out a completely different set of criteria in his epistles on who is qualified to be an overseer of the church and he spoke against this kind of greed.

You still have it backwards, the people running the church should not be asking for money, it should be received without any asking. Jesus and His disciples never went around fund raising in order to pay themselves for their work. We should be ashamed of ourselves when heathens question our motives for asking money from them. We do look like conmen and we are rightly mocked for our hypocrisy. Woe to those who peddle the word of God for money and cause His Gospel to be rejected as a result.

 

[Sue D.]

When a church looks for a pastor -- there are Many aspects of life, belief, etc. that are looked at -- considered. We had Lots of candidates applying to be pastors. Over several months -- Many months -- a committee was voted on and went over the various candidates information and prayed about it - personally -- and then got together as a group every week to get everyone's comments. They would go to the various churches where they prospect was preaching to hear him and listen to tapes of his preaching to find out exactly how / what he was preaching. After about a year -- a man was being considered -- listened to -- his family observed. Why he wanted to be at 'this' church. He was invited to be questioned by the church body and present himself and his family in person. And then was voted on by the church membership and then 'called'. He accepted the call and came. The salary was a very small part of his calling.

Every week the offering plate is sent around for voluntary offering from anyone who wants to put it in. Some church Don't pass an offering plate -- those who go there know where to put their offering without being told to.

the offering plate is passed around for the convenience of the people wanting to give.

The people 'running' the church have no clue as to who is giving or how much. Various deacons or ushers collect and count with witnesses so that no one is taking advantage of any 'system' in the church.

Churches have bills to pay -- electric , rent, etc.

Your bio says you're from China -- and you're on internet or you wouldn't be on 'here'. so you Also , probably know that different countries, groups, do things differently. No system is perfect by any means.

 

[Enxu]

When a church looks for a pastor -- there are Many aspects of life, belief, etc. that are looked at -- considered. We had Lots of candidates applying to be pastors. Over several months -- Many months -- a committee was voted on and went over the various candidates information and prayed about it - personally -- and then got together as a group every week to get everyone's comments. They would go to the various churches where they prospect was preaching to hear him and listen to tapes of his preaching to find out exactly how / what he was preaching. After about a year -- a man was being considered -- listened to -- his family observed. Why he wanted to be at 'this' church. He was invited to be questioned by the church body and present himself and his family in person. And then was voted on by the church membership and then 'called'. He accepted the call and came. The salary was a very small part of his calling.

Every week the offering plate is sent around for voluntary offering from anyone who wants to put it in. Some church Don't pass an offering plate -- those who go there know where to put their offering without being told to.

the offering plate is passed around for the convenience of the people wanting to give.

The people 'running' the church have no clue as to who is giving or how much. Various deacons or ushers collect and count with witnesses so that no one is taking advantage of any 'system' in the church.

Churches have bills to pay -- electric , rent, etc.

Your bio says you're from China -- and you're on internet or you wouldn't be on 'here'. so you Also , probably know that different countries, groups, do things differently. No system is perfect by any means.

I have presented my case already, people who claim to be Christians don’t even care that their actions are hypocritical in nature and that affects how the Gospel is perceived. Asking for money was never done by ANY of God’s true prophets, apostles or teachers. Every single one of them lived SELFLESS lives even to the point of being killed for their godly work. Today’s churches are all about self preservation and resemble NONE of God’s true people. The needs of God’s true servants were supplied not because they asked for it from those around them, but because God was trustworthy enough to provide it by commanding others to help them. If a church has to beg people to help it and resort to making themselves look like conmen to pay bills, that church simply started relying on its own efforts and has no faith in God’s providence to begin with.

I may sound harsh but this is the ugly truth and I don’t sugarcoat things. If just one single church in this world ever lived a truly selfless life for God instead of focusing all on self preservation, it would have had a great impact on the world by God’s Grace. It’s apparent that those who truly had selfless lives were all killed in Middle Eastern countries, and most churches would not even want to give up their church buildings and make every effort to store up treasures here on earth instead of in heaven.

 

[Sue D.]

Yes, you Have presented your case -- and there is nothing hypocritical about what I presented. That which I presented had nothing to do with 'begging' a congregation for money.

New Testament times are different than These times.

 

[Enxu]

Yes, you Have presented your case -- and there is nothing hypocritical about what I presented. That which I presented had nothing to do with 'begging' a congregation for money.

New Testament times are different than These times.

Let me just ask you, why is it so important to keep church buildings and pay bills to maintain them that people need to ask people for money in order to do it? What is so wrong about people just gathering in homes and visit each other more often so that church leaders reduce their own financial burdens and the Gospel can be preached freely?

You people turn church buildings into a necessity and then justify asking hearers for money based on that, but the same group of you don’t even care one bit that unbelievers are rejecting the Gospel because they don’t understand why the church ask them for money when they are just here to hear a new religion. How is that not hypocritical? It may not apply to every church but it does to many.

The apostles could also have a temple-like building in their times like the Jerusalem Temple and yet they don’t see that as a necessity. In fact, Jesus commanded them to not carry unnecessary things, not even money in their pockets. It is not in any way convincing to use “we are living in different times” as an excuse.

 

[Enxu]

People like to hear good and comforting things but when someone comes and talks harsh to them about how they lack love for God they turn their ears away, sneer at you and consider you an outcast. This is what happened to every single prophet of God who preached repentance, people hated their message, considered them outcasts and killed them! On the other hand, they loved false prophets because they always preach blessing and soothing words, even when those words don’t line up with the reality and truth of God!

The same rejection against loving God wholeheartedly and the same acceptance of whatever seems good and pleasing is happening inside the professing church congregations! People don’t seek for discernment from God and just allow themselves to accept every single man made doctrine just because they seem pleasing, comfortable and good!

Why is no one taking into heart what apostle Paul wrote about Satan appearing as an angel of light, and how his wicked ministers will appear as ministers of righteousness?! Why is no one taking into heart what was written about false prophets in the OT, liars who never fail to preach good sounding messages that appear to be true but is nothing more than to make people feel good about themselves?! This is exactly how people get deceived, by false flattery and deceptive feel good messages!

Judge for yourselves whether it is right or not to do all that you can so that people don’t turn away from the Gospel because they feel you are ripping them off! Or do you have no idea that every single teacher and prophet of God made sacrifices for God, and that is why they are proven as true, because they loved God with their actions! What use is it for Churches to have large buildings, extravagant entertainment when people don’t even know what the Gospel really said?

How is it any help to people when we tell them it’s all bed and roses when you become a Christian but then God puts them into trials they realise what they were told about being a disciple was actually a journey of trials and tribulations? Their faith in God will only be destroyed, they will turn away from God and curse Him because they were told by people like you that everything will be fine!

Wake up!

 

[Sue D.]

Enxu -- your bio says you're from China -- and I'm thinking that we've had this conversation before. I might end up repeating myself -- the New Testament 'church' Now is fairly different from that of in Biblical times. In any of the churches I've gone to during my life -- a lot of them due to moving around -- None have ever 'begged' the congregation for money. Apparently you feel that passing the offering plate around is 'begging' for money -- well -- it isn't. It's also an act of worship. Worshiping God with our tithes and offerings. Someone prays for the offering time -- that God will bless what we share in that way. No one Has to put Anything in the offering plate.

There Are small groups during the week that meet to have Bible study and share a snack. That seems to be replacing the Sunday evenings and Wedn evening Bible study times at the church. And small groups Are an outreach into the community. People will attend a small group instead of a church. But we Still need to be connected to the local church group.

I really don't think that people are rejecting or accepting the Gospel unto salvation because they don't like an offering plate being passed around. People Do happen to like being indoors out of the weather elements -- they Do like indoor plumbing and nursery care for their small children. They Do like potluck dinners and kitchens to serve them in and a fellowship hall to enjoy eating them and fellow shipping with their church family friends.

Now -- if You want to belong to a small group and meet in someone's home for Bible study , etc, by all means do so. However, don't be condemning those of us who Do meet in a church building and have a pastor to pay and bills to pay to maintain their buildings. A lot of people are reached in a building at one time. NO one stands beside any person in the congregation and Waits for them to 'hand over some money'. If they Do -- they are very wrong.

And, no pastor should be telling Anyone that the Christian life is a bed of roses to be enjoyed. Then again -- maybe that Is correct. A rose is beautiful on top, but has Lots of thorns right underneath it. It's Very easy and painful to prick a finger on a rose bush if you're trying to pick one. Used to have a series of rose bushes on our private property. They were beautiful. The neighbors enjoyed their presence. But they Also were the home to hornet's nests at times. I got too close while trimming the branches and got Stung. So -- living the Christian life Isn't especially fun -- it's living a life that , hopefully is going to be attracting people To Christ, not away from Him. Lots of hardships might come our way, just to test us to see how we Do react. Do people hear us getting angry at others' or their circumstances -- do they hear us cursing? That should not be.

WE Are to be faithfully sharing the Gospel when the opportunity comes our way. Some people are very outgoing and others are fairly shy -- God uses our uniqueness for His glory.

Maybe in your experiences in life -- you Have seen lots of people turn away from God. But people are Still turning To God and will continue to.

Time for breakfast.

 

[Enxu]

Enxu -- your bio says you're from China -- and I'm thinking that we've had this conversation before. I might end up repeating myself -- the New Testament 'church' Now is fairly different from that of in Biblical times. In any of the churches I've gone to during my life -- a lot of them due to moving around -- None have ever 'begged' the congregation for money. Apparently you feel that passing the offering plate around is 'begging' for money -- well -- it isn't. It's also an act of worship. Worshiping God with our tithes and offerings. Someone prays for the offering time -- that God will bless what we share in that way. No one Has to put Anything in the offering plate.

There Are small groups during the week that meet to have Bible study and share a snack. That seems to be replacing the Sunday evenings and Wedn evening Bible study times at the church. And small groups Are an outreach into the community. People will attend a small group instead of a church. But we Still need to be connected to the local church group.

I really don't think that people are rejecting or accepting the Gospel unto salvation because they don't like an offering plate being passed around. People Do happen to like being indoors out of the weather elements -- they Do like indoor plumbing and nursery care for their small children. They Do like potluck dinners and kitchens to serve them in and a fellowship hall to enjoy eating them and fellow shipping with their church family friends.

Now -- if You want to belong to a small group and meet in someone's home for Bible study , etc, by all means do so. However, don't be condemning those of us who Do meet in a church building and have a pastor to pay and bills to pay to maintain their buildings. A lot of people are reached in a building at one time. NO one stands beside any person in the congregation and Waits for them to 'hand over some money'. If they Do -- they are very wrong.

And, no pastor should be telling Anyone that the Christian life is a bed of roses to be enjoyed. Then again -- maybe that Is correct. A rose is beautiful on top, but has Lots of thorns right underneath it. It's Very easy and painful to prick a finger on a rose bush if you're trying to pick one. Used to have a series of rose bushes on our private property. They were beautiful. The neighbors enjoyed their presence. But they Also were the home to hornet's nests at times. I got too close while trimming the branches and got Stung. So -- living the Christian life Isn't especially fun -- it's living a life that , hopefully is going to be attracting people To Christ, not away from Him. Lots of hardships might come our way, just to test us to see how we Do react. Do people hear us getting angry at others' or their circumstances -- do they hear us cursing? That should not be.

WE Are to be faithfully sharing the Gospel when the opportunity comes our way. Some people are very outgoing and others are fairly shy -- God uses our uniqueness for His glory.

Maybe in your experiences in life -- you Have seen lots of people turn away from God. But people are Still turning To God and will continue to.

Time for breakfast.

Inside Singapore's City Harvest megachurch scandal - BBC News

From racy music videos to a convoluted money trail, the City Harvest megachurch scandal is the biggest corruption case Singapore has seen in years.

www.bbc.com

If you can read this news and still find nothing wrong with the current church financial system I have nothing else to say.

For that matter just because I sound harsh does not mean I am condemning anyone in particular since I never named names or even Churches. If you are of good conscience before God, you will not be disturbed by my words since they obviously don’t apply to your case. If you do feel disturbed, then it is perhaps time for you to take a good introspection to see if there is need for repentance.

God knows why I am saying all these things. The Gospel said we are to exhort one another into good works, not defend and justify ourselves into doing what we feel is ok and acceptable.

If it was the apostle Paul who wrote to you about this matter, would you also justify yourselves to him? He was eager to set an exemplary example as one of the church leaders, but I see none doing the same today. Where is your love for God?

“Prove everything, hold onto that which is good.” Which church is actively practising that? If I sound harsh, it’s because I’m frustrated by the lack of fervent love for God. If I don’t give a damn about any of this, I am a joke to even say I am a Christian.

 

[Sue D.]

Thank you for sharing that article about Singapore -- that explains a Lot.

There are megachurches in this country. There are tele-evangelists who make Way To Much money. They live like millionaires -- they teach a prosperity message which isn't true. Those 'preachers' can have a "pied-piper" affect on people.

They give ordinary pastors a bad name at times. But only if / when 'we' let them.

There is a church called 'Transformation Church' -- it Too is a megachurch in Charolotte , N. Carolina -- but their pastor is wonderful -- preaches the Word --One of the posters who used to be 'here' sends me the video of those Sunday church services. They are a multi-cultural huge church -- Praise and Worship -- and the pastor is Big in God's Word. He can be found on uTube. The pastor is a former foot ball player.

There is also Dr David Jeremiah on TV -- a large church and TV audiance and he's Very Bible. You can look him up, also.

A person can always find a bad apple -- but we need to try to look Past the bad one and find the Good ones.

 

[LordKnows]

1 John 3:17 (NLT)
17 If someone has enough money to live well and sees a brother or sister[a] in need but shows no compassion—how can God’s love be in that person?


A Pastor of ANY church shouldn't have a net worth of a million plus & have poverty stricken people in the congregation.


Getting paid to do God's work is one thing. Believing millions of dollars is "fair" pay to do God's work is another.

And THIS is one of the reasons God is going to judge the church 1st.

 

[NYQueens977]

So this is my opinion.
I've attended small churches all my life, and they've all had the same dream: To grow so that they could share the gospel to everyone, all over the world. This is admirable, but realistically it costs a lot of money. I've had pastors come speak to us about how they were barely able to make it through college, and how they had to struggle to get loans so that they could build their ministries from scratch.
So when Churches do grow and become globally recognized, they're demonized as corrupt members of a capitalist system. Makes sense. Although I understand that there are plenty of scandals involving many recognized churches, such as Hillsong, Joel Olsteen, Joyce Meyers, etc., but what about all of the other megachurches, like the Potter's House, or the McLean Bible Church, and so many others? Should all of these pastors refrain from receiving a salary just because a select few choose to fall for corruption. Of course not. Money buys high quality Bibles and a comfortable environment for parishioners, and if you can afford the success to buy these things, I don't see the issue.