Why pastors and preachers should not be receiving salaries

[Enxu]

What do you mean by "if it's a true church".

Why does Anyone need a job? Do you, personally need a job? Why ? What / who provides for Your needs or that of y our family. Just more 'food for thought'. But isn't it a reality in this world -- This society -- a pastor needs to eat, pay for his gas for his car / transportation / as does his family. His wife / children need to eat, his kids grow just like other people's kids.

Like what Bear said, there are many ways to earn a living. Is every single pastor in church today not able to earn a living outside of church? Definitely not! Why can’t they earn a salary elsewhere so they take as little as they can from church?

If the Gospel is being slandered due to greedy pastors on paycheck are we supposed to sacrifice the Gospel in order for pastors to “Make a living”?? What kind of Christian does that hmm??

 

[Sue D.]

As has been previously stated -- churches in U.S.A. give pastors a salary. Most pastors have lots to do to be a shepherd To their flocks. Probably more than people realize. Churches willingly provide income for their pastors so that they Don't have to give time Away from their church responsibilites and be there for the people as they need to be.

There are Lots of very good Bible-teaching pastors in this world. Don't let the few bad apples that Do exist , ruin it for all the rest of them.

 

[Hekuran]

Like what Bear said, there are many ways to earn a living. Is every single pastor in church today not able to earn a living outside of church? Definitely not! Why can’t they earn a salary elsewhere so they take as little as they can from church?

If the Gospel is being slandered due to greedy pastors on paycheck are we supposed to sacrifice the Gospel in order for pastors to “Make a living”?? What kind of Christian does that hmm??

You seem to think that salary and greed have to go hand in hand. They don't.

Read the opening chapters of the book of Acts. Its clear that the church leaders were dependent on the believers. For one thing, many were fishermen by profession and Jesus had called them out of that. And Jerusalem is not great for the fishing. At the beginning of chapter 6, we see that they refuse to be distracted from their proclamation ministry.

A modest income from the congregation to free a pastor to devote time to ministry is not contrary to scripture.

 

[Enxu]

As has been previously stated -- churches in U.S.A. give pastors a salary. Most pastors have lots to do to be a shepherd To their flocks. Probably more than people realize. Churches willingly provide income for their pastors so that they Don't have to give time Away from their church responsibilites and be there for the people as they need to be.

There are Lots of very good Bible-teaching pastors in this world. Don't let the few bad apples that Do exist , ruin it for all the rest of them.

There are only FEW bad apples? That’s not what Jesus said:

MANY will say to Me in that the day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ And then I will declare unto them, ‘I never knew you; depart you from Me, those working lawlessness.’ Matthew 7:22-23

Your reality of the church leadership is incongruent with what Jesus prophesied. Unlike your idea that there are only few bad apples, Jesus specifically said MANY are bad apples who claim to do God’s work. Your disagreement isn’t with me, it’s with Jesus.

 

[Enxu]

You seem to think that salary and greed have to go hand in hand. They don't.

Read the opening chapters of the book of Acts. Its clear that the church leaders were dependent on the believers. For one thing, many were fishermen by profession and Jesus had called them out of that. And Jerusalem is not great for the fishing. At the beginning of chapter 6, we see that they refuse to be distracted from their proclamation ministry.

A modest income from the congregation to free a pastor to devote time to ministry is not contrary to scripture.

And this thread has nothing to do with salary used to sustain daily necessities. I never said pastors should not be given anything to feed their families.

It really makes me wonder whether a person has faith if they feel the need to justify what they are doing. If you are justifying it it means you are not doing it by faith then it is a sin. If you are justifying it it probably is sin anyway since people only justify what they feel convicted of. People don’t justify what they know for certain is right, they just continue doing it. The need for justification reveals a guilty conscience.

 

[Enxu]

You seem to think that salary and greed have to go hand in hand. They don't.

Read the opening chapters of the book of Acts. Its clear that the church leaders were dependent on the believers. For one thing, many were fishermen by profession and Jesus had called them out of that. And Jerusalem is not great for the fishing. At the beginning of chapter 6, we see that they refuse to be distracted from their proclamation ministry.

A modest income from the congregation to free a pastor to devote time to ministry is not contrary to scripture.

For that matter, let me make myself clear what I think is the real biblical way of supporting true stewards of God’s word.

If I have seen for myself the righteous lifestyle of a proclaiming pastor and his love for God, I will gladly support him in his ministry and personal needs within my means. But if I find that my support is used by a pastor to buy cars and upgrade his lifestyle in any way then I will not support him anymore. I want my support to be used for God’s work not to satisfy a false prophet’s greed for more wealth and comfort.

The problem is nobody knows for sure how pastors are using people’s money in their private lives and many are supporting pastors’ greed without even knowing it. That is the problem with using money as a support system and why I said pastors should be supported not with salaries, but maybe actual goods and stuff. I would rather support pastors with actual goods so at least I know they aren’t using them for their own greed.

 

[Enxu]

You seem to think that salary and greed have to go hand in hand. They don't.

Read the opening chapters of the book of Acts. Its clear that the church leaders were dependent on the believers. For one thing, many were fishermen by profession and Jesus had called them out of that. And Jerusalem is not great for the fishing. At the beginning of chapter 6, we see that they refuse to be distracted from their proclamation ministry.

A modest income from the congregation to free a pastor to devote time to ministry is not contrary to scripture.

It is so ironical how pastors and church leadership are talking about the necessity of salaries to support their own lives when neither Jesus nor His apostles had any of the privileges they had and so fervently defend for. They seem to believe they have more rights to life’s comfort and whatnots than even Jesus.

I suspect for the most part the contention I’m getting is because pastors are just not willing to downgrade their current life standards or give up a few life’s excesses for Christ. It has nothing to do with basic needs, not receiving a salary from the church wouldn’t really threaten their basic needs because they can simply find a secular job. Their justification is just a masked justification for not willing to sacrifice ANYTHING for the Gospel. If that’s the attitude of most pastors then I am right about just how self centered modern Christians are, especially the leadership.

They claim to be pastors but then when it comes to the reputation of the church, they shift responsibilities and say things like “don’t let bad apples spoil my right to salaries”. Wow, just wow. If the reputation of church is not even on their list of things to fight for, and they rather continue doing something that has caused scandals in the church, then why do you think people will not confront them for their hypocrisy?

People who aren’t Christians but who are true to their faith often sacrificed their lives for it, that at the very least showed that they were committed to what they believed. But here we have people who call themselves Christians, who say they are pastors, but who couldn’t even sacrifice their living standards for the sake of protecting the reputation of the Gospel they preach. It is a shame really how unchristlike they are. If I was an unbeliever and I read the Bible and then compare their lifestyles with the lifestyles of Jesus I would probably laugh at their hypocrisy. They can’t even compare to pagans who would do anything to protect their faith.

That’s why I don’t go to any church or trust in any so called believers anymore. They don’t truly love what they preach nor are they even devoted to what they believe because it’s all about them and their self-centered lavish lifestyles that cannot be forsaken, not even for Jesus who died for them.

They call themselves blessed in their lavish lifestyles and so they imply that the millions upon millions of true Christians who died for their faith are not blessed. It’s disgusting to me.

 

[Enxu]

Do you self proclaiming pastors think Jesus was making jokes when He said:

If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me. (Matthew 16:24)
And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. (Matthew 10:38)

You can fool your church with your justifications but you cannot fool God. If you love your living standards more than the Gospel then you are not worthy of Jesus because you are not even denying yourselves.

 

[Br. Bear]

@Enxu
Greetings,

See the hypocrisy of those who call themselves Christians? This topic is about church salary and then some will say I play word games and assume I don’t have a salary outside of church. Btw I don’t even work as a pastor so I don’t take a cent from any church. Never have and never will. Apostle Paul was a pastor and he earned his own living without taking a cent from the church as his salary. I wonder why these people who attack me in order to defend their own selfish attitudes and who show no regard of Jesus’ gospel being spurned due to greedy pastors aren’t ashamed to call themselves Christians.

I think the comments were aimed at me, actually, so please don't be offended.

There is definitely a good place for those who do the work of the Lord in the Church to be supplied for by the Lord through the Members of the Church, as a way for the love of God to be made manifest amongst ourselves.
Any true 'minister', no matter what 'area' they minister in, will not be seeking more than they need and would not be willing to take anything from those who can not afford to help and do so with a joyful heart. Yes, many there have been and most likely still are, who do other paid work to support or provide for themselves and others.
It is not for me to judge who does what and why. I know that in my earlier years, i considered that a real minister of the Gospel would refuse any hint of being paid, and that a real minister would be full time and have no time to another 'job'. But, if we broaden our outlook a bit (with the Lord's graceful help), we might see that doing another job may well be all part of the overall ministering, like, for example, one of the Member's here telling of her dad who used to use his earnings from another 'job' to help others as well as provide for his family. To him, i take my hat off. I have no idea what he preached, however. [and do not even wish to venture down that path of enquiry].
We can quickly judge one another and others we do not even know, but that is done from the prompting of adversity to the Gospel, rather than from He Who ministers to us through the Holy Ghost.

Yes, there have been plenty who come at the role of minister/pastor for the purpose of employment and for gain other than souls for the Kingdom of God. Others find themselves in a place of comfort with big salaries yet never set out with that in mind.
All in all, the condition of what we and the world see as the church, is messy in this matter as well as in other areas which is why each of us should be about or own business as if to the Lord and doing what we know to be the right thing, for each will be accountable.
The modern idea of 'Pastors' does seem a long way from what the Church did originally. Being a pastor was not so much a title but more the work according to gifting of God, for the Body. I don't see anywhere in the Bible people being called Pastor Smith or Pastor Baumstein or any other title with Pastor in it.

Again, I think the words you referred to were directed towards me, not you, so again, please do not be moved by them except to pray God's peace be upon us all for His glory and praise. in Jesus name.


Bless you ....><>

 

[Br. Bear]

If you love your living standards more than the Gospel then you are not worthy of Jesus because you are not even denying yourselves.

and therefore can not take up your cross and follow Him


Bless you ....><>

Then Jesus told His disciples, “If anyone wants to come after Me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow Me. For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it. What will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul? For the Son of Man will come in His Father’s glory with His angels, and then He will repay each one according to what he has done.
Matthew 16:24-27

And He said before everyone, “Whoever is willing to come after Me, let him deny himself, let him take up his cross everyday, and let him come after Me.”
Luke 9:23

And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me.
Matthew 10:38

 

[PloughBoy]

Leaders of the church are supposed to be a example to the flock of God. When leaders deny themselves, the flock will deny themselves. When leaders live like “King David” and “King Solomon” they being a example of the ways of a King instead of “The Way” of “a servant” with a small “s”. But you see that way is beneath them. Sale all you got and give to the poor is a hard pill, when you have many possessions, and a loving wife and nice children.
The 12 left all, You are right only a few will answer that call, others will harp out excuses.

 

[Hekuran]

It is so ironical how pastors and church leadership are talking about the necessity of salaries to support their own lives when neither Jesus nor His apostles had any of the privileges they had and so fervently defend for. They seem to believe they have more rights to life’s comfort and whatnots than even Jesus.

I suspect for the most part the contention I’m getting is because pastors are just not willing to downgrade their current life standards or give up a few life’s excesses for Christ. It has nothing to do with basic needs, not receiving a salary from the church wouldn’t really threaten their basic needs because they can simply find a secular job. Their justification is just a masked justification for not willing to sacrifice ANYTHING for the Gospel. If that’s the attitude of most pastors then I am right about just how self centered modern Christians are, especially the leadership.

They claim to be pastors but then when it comes to the reputation of the church, they shift responsibilities and say things like “don’t let bad apples spoil my right to salaries”. Wow, just wow. If the reputation of church is not even on their list of things to fight for, and they rather continue doing something that has caused scandals in the church, then why do you think people will not confront them for their hypocrisy?

People who aren’t Christians but who are true to their faith often sacrificed their lives for it, that at the very least showed that they were committed to what they believed. But here we have people who call themselves Christians, who say they are pastors, but who couldn’t even sacrifice their living standards for the sake of protecting the reputation of the Gospel they preach. It is a shame really how unchristlike they are. If I was an unbeliever and I read the Bible and then compare their lifestyles with the lifestyles of Jesus I would probably laugh at their hypocrisy. They can’t even compare to pagans who would do anything to protect their faith.

That’s why I don’t go to any church or trust in any so called believers anymore. They don’t truly love what they preach nor are they even devoted to what they believe because it’s all about them and their self-centered lavish lifestyles that cannot be forsaken, not even for Jesus who died for them.

They call themselves blessed in their lavish lifestyles and so they imply that the millions upon millions of true Christians who died for their faith are not blessed. It’s disgusting to me.

You're wrong. I know a lot of pastors - salaried and unsalaried - and I don't recognise in them any part of the greed you describe.

 

[Enxu]

@Enxu
Greetings,



I think the comments were aimed at me, actually, so please don't be offended.

There is definitely a good place for those who do the work of the Lord in the Church to be supplied for by the Lord through the Members of the Church, as a way for the love of God to be made manifest amongst ourselves.
Any true 'minister', no matter what 'area' they minister in, will not be seeking more than they need and would not be willing to take anything from those who can not afford to help and do so with a joyful heart. Yes, many there have been and most likely still are, who do other paid work to support or provide for themselves and others.
It is not for me to judge who does what and why. I know that in my earlier years, i considered that a real minister of the Gospel would refuse any hint of being paid, and that a real minister would be full time and have no time to another 'job'. But, if we broaden our outlook a bit (with the Lord's graceful help), we might see that doing another job may well be all part of the overall ministering, like, for example, one of the Member's here telling of her dad who used to use his earnings from another 'job' to help others as well as provide for his family. To him, i take my hat off. I have no idea what he preached, however. [and do not even wish to venture down that path of enquiry].
We can quickly judge one another and others we do not even know, but that is done from the prompting of adversity to the Gospel, rather than from He Who ministers to us through the Holy Ghost.

Yes, there have been plenty who come at the role of minister/pastor for the purpose of employment and for gain other than souls for the Kingdom of God. Others find themselves in a place of comfort with big salaries yet never set out with that in mind.
All in all, the condition of what we and the world see as the church, is messy in this matter as well as in other areas which is why each of us should be about or own business as if to the Lord and doing what we know to be the right thing, for each will be accountable.
The modern idea of 'Pastors' does seem a long way from what the Church did originally. Being a pastor was not so much a title but more the work according to gifting of God, for the Body. I don't see anywhere in the Bible people being called Pastor Smith or Pastor Baumstein or any other title with Pastor in it.

Again, I think the words you referred to were directed towards me, not you, so again, please do not be moved by them except to pray God's peace be upon us all for His glory and praise. in Jesus name.


Bless you ....><>

Perhaps, but it was posted in this thread so is somewhat addressed to me as well I believe.

I know I speak in a way that seemed judgmental or even bitter, and yes on some level I am bitter because of how even the church failed to be a source of encouragement for me. It is one thing to be hated by the world, to which I experienced first hand what it is like to be cursed at, abused emotionally, slandered for things I did not do and whatnots. It is another thing to see people who call themselves Christians, who are supposed to love you act towards you in the same way as your haters did. They show me the same level of apathy towards my wellbeing the pagans did. They could care less about my soul even if they hurt me. I have been gossiped and slandered even by people who call themselves Christians so the hypocrisy I’m seeing just disgusts me.

This thread brings me no benefit and I can just go my merry way and pretend everything is ok and let people do what they want. What do I even get from waking people up to their consciences? But I chose to post messages that offend people just to see how many truly love God. The result is evident, few truly love Him. And many believe it is actually OK to be apathetic about this lack of passion for God. I’m done with them.

 

[Enxu]

You're wrong. I know a lot of pastors - salaried and unsalaried - and I don't recognise in them any part of the greed you describe.

just because you don’t see them doesn’t mean they don’t exist.

MANY will say to Me in that the day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ And then I will declare unto them, ‘I never knew you; depart you from Me, those working lawlessness.’ Matthew 7:22-23

Do you believe what Jesus said above about how there are many false preachers/workers who claim to do God’s work, ask yourself.

 

[Enxu]

Leaders of the church are supposed to be a example to the flock of God. When leaders deny themselves, the flock will deny themselves. When leaders live like “King David” and “King Solomon” they being a example of the ways of a King instead of “The Way” of “a servant” with a small “s”. But you see that way is beneath them. Sale all you got and give to the poor is a hard pill, when you have many possessions, and a loving wife and nice children.
The 12 left all, You are right only a few will answer that call, others will harp out excuses.

By the way King David started out as a shepherd, living like a king was never his ambition like it is for many pastors today. King Solomon also started out very humble, not asking anything from God except wisdom to rule His people. It was wealth and women that eventually corrupted Solomon, but pastors today don’t even bother learning from his failure.

 

[Hekuran]

just because you don’t see them doesn’t mean they don’t exist.

MANY will say to Me in that the day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ And then I will declare unto them, ‘I never knew you; depart you from Me, those working lawlessness.’ Matthew 7:22-23

Do you believe what Jesus said above about how there are many false preachers/workers who claim to do God’s work, ask yourself.

I'm not saying that there are no greedy self serving people in pastoral roles. Undoubtedly there are.

But the vast vast majority are serving their flocks with considerable self sacrifice on modest incomes.

Your criticism does not line up with reality.

 

[PloughBoy]

Many of times, some of us have to poke at Christians to wake them up! And Some we have to poke, to let them know, they are not dead! But a live! They have to be stirred up, to rekindle the flame!

6Why I put you in remembrance that you stir up the gift of God, which is in you by the putting on of my hands.
[acting like Paul as a example]

 

[Br. Bear]

@Enxu
Greetings again,

Perhaps, but it was posted in this thread so is somewhat addressed to me as well I believe.

I know I speak in a way that seemed judgmental or even bitter, and yes on some level I am bitter because of how even the church failed to be a source of encouragement for me. It is one thing to be hated by the world, to which I experienced first hand what it is like to be cursed at, abused emotionally, slandered for things I did not do and whatnots. It is another thing to see people who call themselves Christians, who are supposed to love you act towards you in the same way as your haters did. They show me the same level of apathy towards my wellbeing the pagans did. They could care less about my soul even if they hurt me. I have been gossiped and slandered even by people who call themselves Christians so the hypocrisy I’m seeing just disgusts me.

This thread brings me no benefit and I can just go my merry way and pretend everything is ok and let people do what they want. What do I even get from waking people up to their consciences? But I chose to post messages that offend people just to see how many truly love God. The result is evident, few truly love Him. And many believe it is actually OK to be apathetic about this lack of passion for God. I’m done with them.

May i please encourage you to put away all bitterness. It is a very persistent and cruel weed that, if it takes root in ones heart , takes over, and it is very, very difficult to rid oneself of it if left to grow or fed to grow. Please, regardless of this thread, but as an honest word to you, please resist all bitterness, for your sake and the Gospel's. because it is not only you who could become embittered, but any you know and love may be adversely effected, BUT also, it renders all talk of hypocrisy invalid, and puts forth a bad witness to the Gospel.

Also, please allow the Lord to minister to you, and i mean this sincerely, in love, that you do not be hasty to be 'done with' anyone. Let us remember the longsuffering and patience of the Lord to us AND to all who went before us from whom we have been handed down the Gospel which we have believed.


Bless you ....><>

 

[Enxu]

@Enxu
Greetings again,



May i please encourage you to put away all bitterness. It is a very persistent and cruel weed that, if it takes root in ones heart , takes over, and it is very, very difficult to rid oneself of it if left to grow or fed to grow. Please, regardless of this thread, but as an honest word to you, please resist all bitterness, for your sake and the Gospel's. because it is not only you who could become embittered, but any you know and love may be adversely effected, BUT also, it renders all talk of hypocrisy invalid, and puts forth a bad witness to the Gospel.

Also, please allow the Lord to minister to you, and i mean this sincerely, in love, that you do not be hasty to be 'done with' anyone. Let us remember the longsuffering and patience of the Lord to us AND to all who went before us from whom we have been handed down the Gospel which we have believed.


Bless you ....><>

I am trying very hard. I cry almost daily and am depressed.

Do you know what I’m feeling now? People have hurt me so bad and yet when I confront them about that they show nothing but apathy. People who plot evil against me are trusted by others while my character is called into question because they spread insidious lies about me, lies I cannot even speak out against. Even if their statements are proven wrong they just excuse themselves by saying they are mistaken about me. So they hide their evil intentions towards me from others and I become the object of scorn, distrust and malicious gossip for nothing done. The victim becomes the guilty while the guilty is defended and trusted. I wanted to end my life but those who hurt me don’t even bother to apologise. My life is nothing to them. They go on living their lives like nothing happened but they set a trap for my soul and put a stumbling block to make me bitter.

I don’t stay bitter over one incident. It is an accumulation of events that keep me wounded and bitter, and such events have not stopped! you cannot blame me if it doesn’t go away when events that embittered me kept on happening over and over!

This world hates me from the very moment I was born! I was locked up in a dark room and cursed to die by my kindergarten teacher and that was even before I believed in Christ! Why should I not be bitter about it and all the never ending things that keep me wounded? Naomi was just as bitter after losing her husband and two sons and no one condemned her for being bitter! Who are you to condemn me?

 

[Hekuran]

This puts the discussion about salaries in a different light. If I'd known that your comments were coming from such deep personal pain, I'd have responded differently. If my words have added to your distress, I apologise.

If you want to go further in this conversation it's probably better to start a new thread in counselling or prayer request forum. I'll keep a look out, and I will pray for you.