Why the Pre-Tribulation Rapture Is NOT True.

[Waggles]

Why do Americans (and other first world Westerners) believe that they are going to escape tribulation and ordeals that others are now being subjected to - take just what has happened in Pakistan recently.

Blasphemy Charges Condemn Parents to Death
A Christian couple, parents of four children, were booked on charges of sending blasphemous text messages to an Islamic cleric. Both have been given the death sentence.
Authorities claim the number on the SIM card was registered to the husband.
Shagufta Kausar and her husband Shafqat Emmanuel Masih were accused of blasphemy in Pakistan.
However, the couple say the phone, along with the SIM card, was lost in early 2013. An official with World Vision in Progress, an organization defending the couple, says the only evidence of the “crime” the authorities have is a bill for a SIM card from an unknown shop.
The husband, who is paralyzed from the waist down, admitted to the crime under severe torture. “There is no man who can stand to see his wife being tortured by police, so to save my wife, I confessed,” he said.
Meanwhile, the husband has developed live-threatening bed sores in the jail where he is being held and fears that he may not survive the ordeal.

Pakistani Police Consider Abduction and Forced Marriage ‘Legitimate’
A Christian mother of three was abducted by her employer and forcibly married to him. An appeal to authorities by the family, all of whom work as bonded servants to the same employer, fell on deaf ears. The case was eventually referred to a local imam who ruled that the marriage was legitimate.
After six months of captivity the family was able to devise an escape plan through the help of a secret phone.
The woman, 36-year-old Fouzia Sadiq was whisked to a safe house run by the British Pakistani Christian Association. Saqdiq’s employer responded to the escape by accusing her of stealing gold jewelry. Police visited Sadiq’s house and said they will arrest a family member if Sadiq is not returned to the employer.
To date, BPCA has been able to move two members of Sadiq’s family to the safe house.

Pakistani Christian Couple Burned Alive in Trumped up Charges of Blasphemy
A young Christian couple, parents of four small children and with another on the way, was burned alive by a mob in Pakistan in seemingly trumped up charges of blasphemy. Relatives of the couple say the real issue was a monetary dispute involving the couple’s employers.
The incident was started by a rumour that pages with several verses of the Quran were burned by the wife after being left behind by the wife’s deceased father, after which a local mullah made a public ruling that the couple was guilty of blasphemy.
A mob of about 500 people – included Muslims from neighboring villages -- began forming. Relatives began to flee, including the couple’s children, but the couple was unable to escape. The mob attacked the building in which they had barricaded themselves, broke the door down and started beating them.
"They broke their legs so they couldn't run and then threw them in the fire (in a kiln at the brick factory where they worked),” said Mushtaq Gill, chief advocate at Pakistani minority rights group Legal Evangelical Association Development (LEAD). “Only some bones and hair were found at the site."

Parents of 12-Year Old Kidnapped, Raped Daughter Face Charges for Not Returning Their Daughter
to Her Captor
another really horrific gut wrenching story / event that can only make one cry. The details are pretty horrible so I won't paste and cut the details.

And then there are the sexual enslavements, rapes, beheadings, tortures, crucifixions and being burned alive by ISIS.
And not just ISIS but also in most Muslim Majority nations across the globe. In Indonesia two Christian schoolgirls were attacked, raped and beheaded. Their bodies dumped near the Christian community from which they came.
Nothing like a little intimidation.

Where is the rapture to save all these non-American Christians suffering and dying today, right now.
Wake up to yourselves. Your escape doctrine is false.
And it will come upon us all. Be vigilant. Watch and pray.
Only faith will get us through the valley of death.

 

[Christ4Ever]

@Waggles
Why do you persist to accuse everyone not only in America but the Western World of blindness? Especially knowing this is not true of everyone in America or the Western World!!!!

Voice of the Martyrs

This is but one site based in America that has been helping persecuted Christians around the world for many years. Your words are not new to many here in America brother! Many provide time & resources as God allows to help. Yes there should be many more, but hitting them with stones will not move those who are not helping to help! Americans & Westerns, are helping. Maybe not in great numbers, but still the little is being multiplied by God through prayer! Yes brother they are doing something!!!!!

So the worldly newspapers don't advertise it or it doesn't get publicized to reach where you are. It's not necessary. The Father sees and knows.
Stop painting with a wide brush and humble yourself.

You have valid points and knowledge to offer. Shine brightly brother, Walk rightly and not in indignation and you might with Holy Spirit power move many to not only acknowledge the plight of our brothers & sisters in Christ Jesus throughout the world, but actually run to help!!!

There are churches scattered throughout the Americas that are helping in their own way. Some are sending bibles, while others are supporting international lawyers to defend, while others send resources of food and money, labor etc. Many in prayer!

Sure if you look at Hollywood and what the mass media wants you to see. Little of this is evident. What do you expect something different from the world?

The battles are being fought here as well. They are different, but in some ways even more deadly. For they are over the minds and bodies of the elect if that were possible. Some are named complacency, an increasing Godless Society and populace that is hedonistic, to just name a few. Yet it is not here alone that this is happening. It's worldwide and will get worse.

Because it is subversive and not overt in nature, many do not take it seriously as they should. So more news and information from around the world on what is happening and what things can be done to turn the tide is necessary! Just leave the opening statements be.

YBIC
C4E
<><

 

[Waggles]

The battles are being fought here as well. They are different, but in some ways even more deadly. For they are over the minds and bodies of the elect if that were possible. Some are named complacency, an increasing Godless Society and populace that is hedonistic, to just name a few. Yet it is not here alone that this is happening. It's worldwide and will get worse.

Down under our Christian radio and TV channels are very much dominated by American imports. And they all come across as promoting the 'secret rapture of escape'
for "us" and "we" and "THE Church." Given our Anglican, Lutheran and R. Catholic mainstream traditions along with good Biblical Pentecostalism 'the secret rapture'
comes across to us as an American Evangelical doctrine of recent times.
Sorry to tar you all with the same brush, but the power of American culture and media is overwhelming and very influential.
Then there are the Left Behind books and movies giving an outsider like me the impression that the 'secret rapture' doctrine is immensely popular and mainstream
in the U.S.A.

I guess I get upset because I want to challenge believers out of their complacency and falsely given hopes that they somehow qualify to escape tribulation of the last days
because ... what? Because they are The Church? They are American? They are good people? It is all about blessings and no suffering? It must be true because their pastor
preaches it to be so?
Why do believers want to put their trust in such a doctrine of escape when the history of Christianity is all about suffering and enduring, and overcoming.
There are no shortages of martyrs. - Read "Foxe's Book Of Martyrs" for example.

This is about salvation and continuing in the faith. For when this promise of a 'secret rapture' does not occur then what? Pandemonium? Desperation?
Betrayal? What will millions of people do in their panic, being unprepared for what is coming upon this world?

One of the great advantages that I have as a Bible "fundamentalist" Pentecostal is that in our meetings we still operate the voice gifts of the Holy Spirit in compliance
with 1Corinthians 14 - tongues, interprtation and prophesying - done decently and in order.
Here both Jesus and the Father speaks to his Church through the Holy Spirit to give correction, to teach and to edify the Church.
Of late those who prophesy have spoken of terrible times of tribulation and ordeals coming upon the whole Earth and yes even upon the Church and the saints.
The prophets in the Church have spoken by the Spirit that the time will come when we will be attacked and harmed by the unbelievers. That we will not be able to worship
out in public so freely as we do today. Are we really ready for this oncoming assault against us?
Why, should this be? I hear you all ask.
It is to prove the Church and the gospel. It is to still do the work of an evangelist and bring those seeking the truth to come into the fold.
It is to build up the faith of Christians and to learn to fully rely upon the Lord, rather than worldly resources and services.
It will separate the wheat from the chaff. It will trial and refine our faith. Will we still love Jesus when all has gone bad and there is no food in the supermarkets?

Matthew 24:11-14
And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

I am sorry and regret in hindsight on being so blunt and forthright.
But I know that if we do not watch and pray and prepare ourselves then people will not have the strength of faith to endure and survive unto salvation.
I worry about myself and mu own capability to endure, and I am mindful of these issues that will challenge us all. I am fearful of what is coming.
Are we ready for nuclear war and radiation fallout. Rioting and social collapse. Remember the book "The Day Of The Triffids" by John Wyndham.

If thou faint in the day of adversity, thy strength is small. Proverbs 24:10

 

[Waggles]

Sue J Love gives expression in her thread about the state of affairs in the U.S.A. today.

http://www.talkjesus.com/threads/send-a-revival.54729/
"Our nation, the USA, and the church in our nation are in great need of revival. Much of today’s evangelical church is one with the world, operates like big business, and follows the teachings of men and Marketing 101 over and above scripture for how to conduct and to grow God’s church. This should not be! The gospel is being watered down (diluted) at enormous rates, and this is epidemic across the US in evangelical Christianity.

Words such as “sin”, “repentance,” and “obedience” are antiquated, as is the need for believers in Jesus Christ to take up their cross daily and follow Jesus Christ. Now we focus on the stage productions, performance, and appearance, so that we can draw in large crowds of people, i.e. we draw the world into the church, and with worldly methods to boot! We are the Laodicean Church of the 21st Century, and God is about to spit us out of his mouth. He is calling us to repent of our ways and to turn back to God. (See Revelation 2-3)"

It raises the question is this THE Church that Jesus would willingly rapture up now to save from the trials of their faith. Or is this the church that Jesus would allow
to be exposed to their truth of their choices?

Proverbs 1:
26 I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh;
27 When your fear cometh as desolation, and your destruction cometh as a whirlwind; when distress and anguish cometh upon you.
28 Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they shall seek me early, but they shall not find me:
29 For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD:
30 They would none of my counsel: they despised all my reproof.
31 Therefore shall they eat of the fruit of their own way, and be filled with their own devices.
32 For the turning away of the simple shall slay them, and the prosperity of fools shall destroy them.
33 But whoso hearkeneth unto me shall dwell safely, and shall be quiet from fear of evil.

Some scriptures are more scary than the six o'clock news.

 

[Christ4Ever]

@Waggles

[Eze 9:2-4, 11 KJV] 2 And, behold, six men came from the way of the higher gate, which lieth toward the north, and every man a slaughter weapon in his hand; and one man among them [was] clothed with linen, with a writer's inkhorn by his side: and they went in, and stood beside the brasen altar. 3 And the glory of the God of Israel was gone up from the cherub, whereupon he was, to the threshold of the house. And he called to the man clothed with linen, which [had] the writer's inkhorn by his side; 4 And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof. ... 11 And, behold, the man clothed with linen, which [had] the inkhorn by his side, reported the matter, saying, I have done as thou hast commanded me.

I cry for this Nation called America. Even before I read this chapter in Ezekiel. Far too many are blind and do not see what is coming.

[Eze 9:1-2, 5-10 KJV] 1 He cried also in mine ears with a loud voice, saying, Cause them that have charge over the city to draw near, even every man [with] his destroying weapon in his hand. 2 And, behold, six men came from the way of the higher gate, which lieth toward the north, and every man a slaughter weapon in his hand; and one man among them [was] clothed with linen, with a writer's inkhorn by his side: and they went in, and stood beside the brasen altar. ... 5 And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity: 6 Slay utterly old [and] young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom [is] the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which [were] before the house. 7 And he said unto them, Defile the house, and fill the courts with the slain: go ye forth. And they went forth, and slew in the city. 8 And it came to pass, while they were slaying them, and I was left, that I fell upon my face, and cried, and said, Ah Lord GOD! wilt thou destroy all the residue of Israel in thy pouring out of thy fury upon Jerusalem? 9 Then said he unto me, The iniquity of the house of Israel and Judah [is] exceeding great, and the land is full of blood, and the city full of perverseness: for they say, The LORD hath forsaken the earth, and the LORD seeth not. 10 And as for me also, mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity, [but] I will recompense their way upon their head.

This is what I fear for this nation called America. It would not take much for me to believe that she is the Babylon spoken of in Revelation 18. I do not know this, but would not be surprised by it. So, I must continue to pray for this nation called America and that a Revival may sweep from Ocean to Ocean, border to border. That it may fall under the power of the Holy Spirit and that righteous indignation and cleansing repentance be the beacon by which all the World may Hear the Gospel! Heralding the return of Our Lord and Savior, King of King, Lamb of God that took away the sins of the world Jesus Christ!

I have prostrated myself in prayer for what was once a nation of Godly precepts, ,but is now but a shadow of its past; with the hope of what it might be again through Jesus Christ!

I fear that I am not blind, but see too well a sickness that must be carved out, if it is to survive. There might not be as many as I hope there are, but I will continue to pray for increase and that there is enough to illicit the change that may truly find this America again no longer ashamed to be called "One Nation under God".
YBIC
C4E
<><

 

[RJ]

Whether you believe in the rapture or not is not the important issue. What is important is that you decide today, if you haven’t already done so, to place your trust in Christ because “Blessed is the man who trusts in the LORD, whose trust is the LORD” (Jeremiah 17:7) “For the scripture says, Whosoever believes on him shall not be put to shame” (Rom 10:11).

 

[norapture]

2 John v9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
V10 If there come any unto you and bring not this
doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him Godspeed
V11 For he that biddeth him Godspeed is partaker of his evil deeds.

 

[Waggles]

@norapture
You'll love this video - no five in the series by Kalib Johnson on You Tube

 

[Christ4Ever]

@Waggles

I thought of you brother when I read this. I'm sure you have already read this and I also know you have understood it.

“When I was a little girl, “ I said, “I went to my father and said, “Daddy, I am afraid that I will never be strong enough to be a martyr for Jesus Christ.” “Tell me,” said Father, “When you take a train trip to Amsterdam, when do I give you the money for the ticket? Three weeks before?” “No, Daddy, you give me the money for the ticket just before we get on the train.” “That is right,” my father said, “and so it is with God’s strength. Our Father in Heaven knows when you will need the strength to be a martyr for Jesus Christ. He will supply all you need—just in time…”

YBIC
C4E
<><

He gives power to the weak, And to [those who have] no might He increases strength. 30 Even the youths shall faint and be weary, And the young men shall utterly fall, 31 But those who wait on the LORD Shall renew [their] strength; They shall mount up with wings like eagles, They shall run and not be weary, They shall walk and not faint. Isaiah 40:29-31

 

[Chad]

Wake up to yourselves. Your escape doctrine is false.

How is arguing about doctrine doing the cause of Christ which is the great commission to spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ to the ends of the earth?

What does this accomplish and technically, what difference does it even make whether it's pre or post tribulation, while we're still here anyway? We're still called to witness to others.

Don't be distracted by doctrinal differences or disagreements. That's not God's will for believers.

 

[Waggles]

Don't be distracted by doctrinal differences or disagreements.

Wow. What are you saying here. That all doctrines are equal? That all paths lead to salvation? That all faiths and practices will provide unconditional safety
and survival when the whole world goes bang?
The preaching of false doctrines will not lead to safety, nor will it lead to the necessary faith to endure affliction and catastrophe.
If believers are trusting and relying on false hopes and promises, particularly the secret rapture before the great tribulation, and this does not come to pass, then what?
Where will believers turn to? What will they do?
They will turn upon those who lied to them and took their money.
They will experience betrayal by both those who preached to them and by the gospel as well.
They will abandon their faiths and there will be a great falling away.

No. We have every right to examine and question the validity of gospel doctrines put out by any person and church that takes on the responsibility for
being a Shepherd and leading their followers to salvation.
Not all paths lead to safety and security in Jesus by the Holy Spirit. And if it doesn't then people have the right to question this and be concerned.
And the preaching of sound doctrine is still the great commission expected by Jesus himself - salt - a light on a hill - truth rather than a lie.

If I should remain silent and say nothing will the Lord hold the blood of those who perish against my account?

2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
2Timothy 4:2-4

Not all doctrines are truth. This matters.

 

[RJ]

If believers are trusting and relying on false hopes and promises, particularly the secret rapture before the great tribulation, and this does not come to pass, then what?

False hopes and promises?!?...from God you mean?!....Secret Tribulation? God clearly describes it and it is a secret?!
Why don't you explain all this:

• Jesus Christ told His disciples that His coming will be as the days of Noah - and then Jesus Christ, Himself, proceeded to describe the chronology of those days by explicitly stating that Noah "entered into the ark" before the flood came (Matthew 24:37-39). "so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." - Matthew 24:39.
• To emphasize this point, Jesus Christ repeated this detailed account in Luke 17:26, recording the detail that Noah "entered into the ark" before the flood, and then "the flood came" (Luke 17:26-27). "Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed." - Luke 17:30
  
• Jesus Christ also told His disciples that His coming will be as the days of Lot - and then Jesus Christ, Himself, proceeded to describe the chronology of that event by explicitly stating that Lot "went out of Sodom" before God's judgment rained down (Luke 17:28-29). "Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed." - Luke 17:30
  
• God reminds us of these individuals again, and tells us that it is God's nature to deliver believers before divine judgment: Noah, Lot, Rahab, etc. (II Pet. 2:5-9). Note that Peter (who penned the book of Peter) was present when Christ told it to His disciples the first time.
• Right after that, He tells them about Noah and Lot, He further emphasizes this and describes 2-3 examples (Matthew 24:40-41, Luke 17:34-36) of how some people will be taken, and some will be left.
• I could go on and on but this is enough, so please explain the meaning of all the above.

 

[Ellie]

I would quote a few of you, but then that would defeat the purpose of this reply.

I recently moved back to the United States after being out of the country for a few years.... enough to see how things have changed from even when I was a young girl. It isn't pretty, and you all can see that and probably feel the same way.
(Actually isn't pretty anywhere in the World and we all see it)

Now, I can can be corrected if I am out of place, but really?!

The God I am serving has called me, no matter what country I am in, to live for HIM. He has called me to know Him, Love Him, and FOLLOW HIM.
Just because I am in the US at the moment, does not make that an option. I haven't turned my eye from Him and for one minute think I will get an "escape" out of anything.

I might not know many Christians... the real ones..... but I haven't come across ANY that are sitting back and waiting for this rescue mission. Nope. They might be waiting for a Wedding Date with the Bridegroom but NOT an escape.
And while they might be waiting for that Wedding, from what I can tell.... they are preparing.... God IS pouring out His Spirit. There is a new generation rising (young and old together) and deciding it is time to NOT sit back in their comfy church chairs,
but instead FOLLOW Jesus and walk as He walked. They are living out Christ's message and redemption and walking it out. This won't stop whether the rapture happens pre-trib. or post trib. In fact, perhaps they are like me and haven't even studied the rapture!!! *gasp*
It doesn't matter to me. I'm a sold out daughter of the King. My life was never meant to be my own, so why be concerned about it in this season??? My job is to be so filled with who I am in Christ, that those that I come in contact with can't help but know there is a God and that He is calling them.

That might be here in the US, or in the Hills of where I moved from (seeing first hand what being a follower of Jesus can mean) or a person in a persecuted place.
It won't matter whether I'm reading an article or listening to a program on someone's views of what is happening in the world.
It just is not a game changer for me one way or another.

 

[KingJ]

Where is the rapture to save all these non-American Christians suffering and dying today, right now. Wake up to yourselves. Your escape doctrine is false. And it will come upon us all. Be vigilant. Watch and pray. Only faith will get us through the valley of death.

Matt 24:9 applies to us all. No doubt about that.

I think you need to tone down the accusations of ignorance to those believing pre-trib. Pre-tribbers mostly don't believe we will escape Matt 24:9. They believe we will escape God's punishment and the devils anti christ. We have power over the devil and God's people are always shielded from His wrath. But fellow man, different story. Nobody must ever wonder why God destroyed all with Noah!

Our Christianity is so challenged by stories like those in your OP. We all want to see vengeance and revenge...but that is not Christian. We all want to believe God is with them in their suffering. But you always wonder if He is not. Would they suffer if He was?

 

[RJ]

So it was with Noah, when he was saved from great tribulation .
So it was with Lott, when he was saved from great tribulation.
So it will be with us, when we will be saved from great tribulation.
We are taught that God never changes..why would he change in this instance?
Besides, your great tribulation can come sooner, when you die..I pray you are ready; that is the more important gospel!

 

[Chad]

Wow. What are you saying here. That all doctrines are equal? That all paths lead to salvation? That all faiths and practices will provide unconditional safety

No, I did not say that and you completely missed the point of my response. Never did I condone false doctrine. I said don't get fixated on doctrinal differences. Your OP and your responses are clearly not what GOD intends when He says to teach, rebuke and preach the Gospel. Not your way. There's a better way, learn to disagree humbly. You're not GOD. You're not the judge. You've already accused every human being that believes in pre-tribulation rapture including myself. You call that godly? You're so fixated on proving a point that means nothing at the end of the day because what GOD says, will be and pre or post does not affect a persons salvation.

 

[Waggles]

But you always wonder if He is not. Would they suffer if He was?

What are you saying here? That Middle East Orthodox Christians are not real Christians?
That God is not with them?

I find the true offense of the pre-tribulation secret rapture doctrine the underlying belief that Westerners are superior, are worthy to be raised up to escape what is coming upon
the whole world. And yet it is Christianity in the West that is the most apostate, the most carnal, the most money grubbing, the most unbelieving.
And know one can answer the question of who is THE Church? Who are they worthy of being instantly translated to heaven, whilst others remain behind?
All you get are motherhood statements, such as ALL true believers. Well anybody and everybody can claim that position.
Answer me this you pre-tibbers: just exactly who will be beamed up and why?

13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leads to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leads unto life, and few there be that find it.
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Matthew 7:13-15

 

[RJ]

I find the true offense of the pre-tribulation secret rapture doctrine the underlying belief that Westerners are superior, are worthy to be raised up to escape what is coming upon

Not just Westerners, all that believe in Jesus.....now that is superior!!!!!

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

Hello all. May God's peace be with everyone.

I've done a ton of research on the pre -tribulation vs post- tribulation rapture and this is what I've found.

In a sense both are right.
To put it simply, we will go through tribulation but not the wrath of God.

We will be raptured before God's wrath comes upon the earth.
"For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ."
-1 Thessalonians 5:9

But we will go through tribulation and suffering and testing for our faith as wee can see now.

"At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people.Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold,but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved." -Matthew 24:10-13

"strengthening the disciples and encouraging them to remain true to the faith. "We must go through many hardships to enter the kingdom of God," they said" - Acts 14:22

So the truth is we will go through great tribulation as the Bible tells us, but we won't go through the wrath of God. Some combined the two and
use one world (tribulation) to talk about the increased persecution of the church as well as God's wrath towards the end of revelations. Some say around the time of the 7th seal is when the rapture happens, others say the 7th trumpet. But it is definitely not when the wrath of God is being poured out because verses like this
"and cursed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, but they refused to repent of what they had done."
Revelation 16:11
would not make any sense if it pertained to Christians. Why would Christians refuse to repent? Christians by definition are the ones who have repented. Thus that is referring to the unbelievers left on the earth when God's wrath is being poured out on all of the earth.


So to summarize, we will go through tribulation, but not the wrath of God. We will go through tribulation and some will fall away from the faith as they faith was never rooted in Christ. After the tribulation and we have been purified, we will be taken up and God's wrath will be released.

But as someone said (sorry for not quoting), how does this really affect us?
Well, hopefully not much. Regardless we should continue to witness for God. We should continue to stay strong on
the Word, and continue to bear fruit so that they will know that we are His disciples by our love.
I too haven't see or heard any Christian saying I'm resting because Christ will come soon. He tells us we
don't know the day of the hour so we are to keep busy.

"So he called ten of his servants and gave them ten minas. 'Put this money to work,' he said, 'until I come back.'"- Luke 19;13
Let us be about our Father's busy until He returns regardless of the circumstances under which we believe may precede his return.

 

[KingJ]

What are you saying here? That Middle East Orthodox Christians are not real Christians?
That God is not with them?

Not a chance. I am referring to any and all Christians that suffer. I have the greatest respect for Catholics. I was converted by a nun.

I believe God is with us all. But hearing people scream and suffer always makes you wonder.