Will people go to hell? What does the Bible say?

[Butch5]

I wonder if you ever read the Bible to check on your replies?

Luke 16:22; "Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham's bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried.
Luke 16:23; "In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and *saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom.

King James if you prefer.

Luke 16:22; And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
Luke 16:23; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

I have to wonder the same thing. Look at what you posted. In Hades, the grave, the Rich Man saw who? Abraham. Who else did he see? Lazarus. Where was Lazarus? In Abraham's bosom. This shows that Abraham's bosom is not some location in Hades. It's literally being with Abraham. The Rich Man saw Abraham and Lazarus together.

And Sarai said unto Abram, My wrong be upon thee: I have given my maid into thy bosom; and when she saw that she had conceived, I was despised in her eyes: the LORD judge between me and thee. (Gen. 16:5 KJV)

Hagar was in Abraham's bosom.

No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. (Jn. 1:18 KJV)

Jesus is in the bosom of the Father.

Now there was leaning on Jesus' bosom one of his disciples, whom Jesus loved. (Jn. 13:23 KJV)

John leaned on Jesus' bosom

 

[Butch5]

1 Cor 3:19; For the wisdom of this world is foolishness before God. For it is written, "He is THE ONE WHO CATCHES THE WISE IN THEIR CRAFTINESS";

I don't search for philosophy and logic. I search for truth. God's Word is truth. ( John 17:17; Col 1:5; 2 Tim 2:15; )

However, God created logic, not man. He also expects people to reason correctly as He told the Israelites.

Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
(Isa. 1:18 KJV)

If you reject logic you can't reason with the Lord. But, if we look at that passage in context we'll see what Paul was actually talking about

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings all,

Having read through everyone's posts, i am asking if we could try a little harder to stick to what the Bible says, which does not mean our interpretation of it nor the idea of translation bias. [on that note, if one considers everything to not fit due to translation bias, please keep it to yourself unless you have a decade or two of translation work, translating from manuscripts to some language besides our difficult english]
There is a need to both accept what we have in Scripture and to be diligent enough to consider the complete context of all Scripture, not majoring on a single thread of the tapestry but beholding it all. We must always also be diligent to not continue pushing a line of understanding because that is what we were taught once upon a time. Scripture does have the answer in itself and we can either search Scripture or not. Let us sit around the Bible and be blessed in what the Lord will teach us all, big or small, to His Glory and for building up His people.

Can we all try to keep on topic as much as possible? I know we can be chaffing at the bit to say something but in God we don't have to. Saying nothing can be sometimes better for the whole than saying something because we really have to let it out. This can be a wholesome study if we leave out our personal bias which manifests in the form of sloppy posts and me me and me being the basis and then you you and you being the reply.

We have some very good points being raised but we can so easily slip into other topics and sadly we can also start posting about each other.

Lord, have mercy on us all.


Bless you ....><>

 

[Butch5]

Greetings all,

Having read through everyone's posts, i am asking if we could try a little harder to stick to what the Bible says, which does not mean our interpretation of it nor the idea of translation bias. [on that note, if one considers everything to not fit due to translation bias, please keep it to yourself unless you have a decade or two of translation work, translating from manuscripts to some language besides our difficult english]
There is a need to both accept what we have in Scripture and to be diligent enough to consider the complete context of all Scripture, not majoring on a single thread of the tapestry but beholding it all. We must always also be diligent to not continue pushing a line of understanding because that is what we were taught once upon a time. Scripture does have the answer in itself and we can either search Scripture or not. Let us sit around the Bible and be blessed in what the Lord will teach us all, big or small, to His Glory and for building up His people.

Can we all try to keep on topic as much as possible? I know we can be chaffing at the bit to say something but in God we don't have to. Saying nothing can be sometimes better for the whole than saying something because we really have to let it out. This can be a wholesome study if we leave out our personal bias which manifests in the form of sloppy posts and me me and me being the basis and then you you and you being the reply.

We have some very good points being raised but we can so easily slip into other topics and sadly we can also start posting about each other.

Lord, have mercy on us all.


Bless you ....><>

Unless everyone reads the Bible in the original languages translator bias is an issue. I understand you want to stick to the Bible and that's great. But are we sticking to the Bible when our translation doesn't match the original language texts. I used the example of the Greek word aion. Jesus spoke of the end of the aion. He also spoke of this aion and the one to come. Translators translate this word as forever, yet clearly if it ends it can't be forever. This thread is about hell and surly the question of it's eternity will arise. If we ignore translator bias and just accept this wrong definition of aion we'll never come to the truth. It's your thread so you can make the rules. But, honestly, I don't think there's any reason to debate it if we can't question translations.

 

[Sue D.]

The only 'bias' that translators run into is that no two language have the same alphabet which means that not every single word, mark , symbol in a given language can be totally translated into another language. A given text / book/ whatever is being translated -- is studied diligently -- the cultures involved. Figures of speech used. It's a very complicated process. Translators are Godly men and women who are very concerned with getting the Gospel unto salvation as clear as possible from one language to another.

Maybe 'we' don't like the concept for 'forever' because in our humanness, we don't want Any one to suffer any longer than they need to. If a person doesn't Like the idea of Forever -- then Maybe the thing shouldn't be done that might result In 'forever'.

My sister and brother-in-law are retired missionaries from Brazil / learned Brazilian Portugeese. Since they're retired -- they work with a group called Horizons translating college / seminary-level Bible courses for national pastors. My sister's specialty is in grammar and her husband with the graphics. They are constantly developing new material.

And, yes, English is next to most difficult to translate into -- Russian is more so.

One of the courses ministerial / missions students are required to take is Greek -- and at one point -- translating I John into English from the Greek is required. And, of course, they had to learn the Greek in order to do that.

My sister and husband Still communicate with their friends in Brazilian Portugeese because it's much more descriptive than English is.

Most people are Not going to learn the original Greek / Hebrew -- we put our faith in the ability of the translator as much as in God's Word.

And, yes , our translation Does match as much as possible. The things that don't match up exactly are not affecting doctrine.

Mostly it's 'us' who have Our personal histories that have our biases.

 

[Sue D.]

I have to wonder the same thing. Look at what you posted. In Hades, the grave, the Rich Man saw who? Abraham. Who else did he see? Lazarus. Where was Lazarus? In Abraham's bosom. This shows that Abraham's bosom is not some location in Hades. It's literally being with Abraham. The Rich Man saw Abraham and Lazarus together.

And Sarai said unto Abram, My wrong be upon thee: I have given my maid into thy bosom; and when she saw that she had conceived, I was despised in her eyes: the LORD judge between me and thee. (Gen. 16:5 KJV)

Hagar was in Abraham's bosom.

No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. (Jn. 1:18 KJV)

Jesus is in the bosom of the Father.

Now there was leaning on Jesus' bosom one of his disciples, whom Jesus loved. (Jn. 13:23 KJV)

John leaned on Jesus' bosom

Okay -- you're observing several different uses of the word 'bosom' None of them being 'wrong' simply used differently.

In the English language the word 'two / to / too' which word is the Right one to use -- they all sound the same -- it's the Context that's necessary / essential to know the right useage of the right word.
'two' is the number 2, 'to' mean to go , to be , to 'something' and 3. 'too' means, also.

Personally, I'm very glad that I was learning English before I realized I Was learning it. And I really admire bi-lingual people.

 

[Br. Bear]

Unless everyone reads the Bible in the original languages translator bias is an issue. I understand you want to stick to the Bible and that's great. But are we sticking to the Bible when our translation doesn't match the original language texts. I used the example of the Greek word aion. Jesus spoke of the end of the aion. He also spoke of this aion and the one to come. Translators translate this word as forever, yet clearly if it ends it can't be forever. This thread is about hell and surly the question of it's eternity will arise. If we ignore translator bias and just accept this wrong definition of aion we'll never come to the truth. It's your thread so you can make the rules. But, honestly, I don't think there's any reason to debate it if we can't question translations.

Greetings Butch5,

I appreciate your input and concerns. However, is it really 'translation bias' or could it be our neglect to seek the Lord in order to understand that which He would like us to understand in what we are blessed to be able to read? Quite a few things you have written around the forums I have seen also, but 'translation bias' was never an issue nor does it have to be. Likewise, because we see some things, does that give us the full picture that only the Lord by His Holy Ghost can do for any man? Many there be and have been that by faith, believe, and have never had a Bible to read. What do we do with that? It has to fit the logic, does it not?

Speaking of logic, the Word comes to mind, the Logos, and yet, we can find ourselves diving into another topic, again.

There are plenty of threads already up and running or sitting idle here and anyone can start a new one, So again, can we all please now revert to the beneficial approach of looking at what the Bible says about Hell and if people will go there?

We have had three words presented that are rendered 'hell'.
Can we explore them and when they are used and take it from there?


Bless you ....><>

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings once more,

on the subject of what we see as we study, the Bible is like an ocean in that we can look across it, we can venture out into it and all the while only skim the surface. Underneath it's surface, one which Christ can hold us up on, are wonderful treasures to behold.... but a man needs to have breath in him to explore the depths of God's love, of God's Word, His Promise. But, thanks be to God Who has not left us without Help, and has in fact given enough, that we can take in at the surface, to equip us to venture deep into the ocean within it's pages {or scrolls, like waves} and in that i point to the Spirit, the very Breath we all need to not only enter in but to remain and to not only remain, but in fullness of Life , that we may be enriched so that we too can be an enrichment for all parts of the Body, Who He loves.

The Apostle Paul spoke of his departing. The term used was one also used by mariners, sea faring men, concerning the setting of sail, the beginning of the journey to a distant shore. While we are here, let us encourage one another to check the boat over and to remind each other of the cargo we carry that will be acceptable upon arrival, that which the King has in advance commanded to be brought forth, and has paid for in full, by the price of His Son.


Bless you all....><>

 

[Br. Bear]

Sheol is the old testament. Hades/Hell is the new testament.

ᾅδης = usually translated as hades. (only used in the new testament)
hadēs
hah'-dace
From G1 (as a negative particle) and G1492; properly unseen, that is, “Hades” or the place (state) of departed souls: - grave, hell.
Total KJV occurrences: 11

γέεννα
geenna = usually translated as hell. (only used in the new testament)
gheh'-en-nah
Of Hebrew origin ([H1516] and [H2011]); valley of (the son of) Hinnom; gehenna (or Ge-Hinnom), a valley of Jerusalem, used (figuratively) as a name for the place (or state) of everlasting punishment: - hell.
Total KJV occurrences: 12

שְׁאֹל שְׁאוֹל
she'ôl she'ôl = usually translated as sheol (only used in the old testament)
sheh-ole', sheh-ole'
From H7592; hades or the world of the dead (as if a subterranian retreat), including its accessories and inmates: - grave, hell, pit.
Total KJV occurrences: 65

Lake of fire is usually derived from two words, this is also only in the new testament.

G4442
πῦρ
pur
poor
A primary word; “fire” (literally or figuratively, specifically lightning): - fiery, fire.
Total KJV occurrences: 74

limnē
lim'-nay
Probably from G3040 (through the idea of the nearness of shore); a pond (large or small): - lake.
Total KJV occurrences: 10

Hell and the lake of fire are not the same place.

Rev 20:14; Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.

The Bible says Hades will be thrown "into" the lake of fire.

Jewish tradition says hades is a part of sheol. Sheol contained two sides with a deep chasm between the two sides.
Much of this comes from the story of Lazarus.

Luke 16:22; "Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham's bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried.
Luke 16:23; "In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and *saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom.
Luke 16:24; "And he cried out and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.'
Luke 16:25; "But Abraham said, 'Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony.
Luke 16:26; 'And besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us.'

 

[Brother-Paul]

The opening question is do people go to hell? Scripture gives two choices for our eternal destination. They are either heaven / New Jerusalem or hell/ Lake of fire and brimstone.

Don't want to come across as nitpicky, but I think this is important to the discussion. The Bible never - not once - talks about our eternal destination being heaven.

I agree my friend, and you are not being nitpicky, it is good to discuss all views from scripture. Our Eternal Destination is 'Earth', not heaven, it is in my understanding, on the New Earth, that our Lord will make new, restore, after His return.

The New Jerusalem will come down from Heaven onto the New Earth, it will include the many rooms or mansions, the place is being prepared in Heaven now, it will come down to earth. God was in paradise, walking in the garden of Eden where He created Adam and Eve, the Tree of life was in Paradise, it will come down from Heaven in the New Jerusalem,

God was with man, God will come down to be with man, Emmanuel, God with us.

John 14:1-4 (NKJV)
1 "Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me.
2 In My Father's house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.
4 And where I go you know, and the way you know."

Emmanuel, God with us.

 

[Brother-Paul]

God sees born-again believers through the blood of Christ. 'we' are made perfect through Christ. If a person doesn't come through Christ -- they are not born-again.

Greetings Sue,

I am not being nitpicky, just to clarify... 'We' are being made perfect through Christ, we are as scripture states, practicing righteousness, we will not be perfect in this life, God takes us all as we are, sinners, we come to Him through Jesus, via the cross, from then to our last breath He moulds us to be the people He wants us to be, He moulds us to be ready for heaven.

Bless you.

 

[Br. Bear]

I understand that to be Gehenna, of the Valley of the Son of Hinom. In Mark Jesus quotes Isaiah and tells us that this place is called Gehenna.

And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:1
48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. (Mk. 9:47-48 KJV)

In this passage, hell is Gehenna. Jesus is quoting from Isaiah 66.

22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.1
24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh. (Isa. 66:22-24 KJV)

What we find here is that it is dead bodies, carcases, that a burning in the fire of Gehenna. It's not souls or spirits alive and suffering, it's dead bodies.

If this is true, it contradicts your statement about hell being a product of Greek philosophy.

John 5:28; "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
John 5:29; and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

Even the wicked will be resurrected and rise again.

Acts 24:15; having a hope in God, which these men cherish themselves, that there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

Rev 20:13; And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds.

Rev 20:12; And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.

I wonder how it is... the "dead" could be "standing".

Rev 20:13; And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds.
Rev 20:14; Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
Rev 20:15; And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

For the un-saved... there will be a second death.

Rev 21:8; "But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."

Ecc 3:17; I said to myself, "God will judge both the righteous man and the wicked man," for a time for every matter and for every deed is there.

1 Tim 5:6; But she who gives herself to wanton pleasure is dead even while she lives.

There is a difference between being physically alive... and spiritually dead.

Rom 8:10; If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.

Greetings,

the reason i asked that question was because of something we read in the Bible:

And when they had fulfilled all that was written of Him, they took Him down from the tree, and laid Him in a sepulchre. But God raised Him from the dead: and He was seen many days of them which came up with Him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are His witnesses unto the people.
And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers, God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that He hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art My Son, this day have I begotten Thee. And as concerning that He raised Him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, He said on this wise, I will give You the sure mercies of David. Wherefore He saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer Thine Holy One to see corruption.

For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption: But He, Whom God raised again, saw no corruption.

Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:

and by Him all that believe are justified from all things,

from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses. Beware therefore, lest that come upon you, which is spoken of in the prophets;
Behold, ye despisers, and wonder, and perish: for I work a work in your days, a work which ye shall in no wise believe, though a man declare it unto you.
Acts 13:29-41


which we read in Scripture:

For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
Psalm 16:10

and in other versions

Contemporary English Version
I am your chosen one. You won't leave me in the grave or let my body decay.

Good News Translation
because you protect me from the power of death. I have served you faithfully, and you will not abandon me to the world of the dead.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
For You will not abandon me to Sheol; You will not allow Your Faithful One to see decay.

International Standard Version
For you will not leave my soul in Sheol, you will not allow your holy one to experience corruption.

NET Bible
You will not abandon me to Sheol; you will not allow your faithful follower to see the Pit.

New Heart English Bible
For you will not abandon my soul in Sheol, neither will you allow your Holy One to see decay.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Because you have not left my soul in Sheol, neither have you given your Pure One to see destruction.

JPS Tanakh 1917
For Thou wilt not abandon my soul to the nether-world; Neither wilt Thou suffer Thy godly one to see the pit.

Brenton Septuagint Translation
because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; nor wilt then give thy holy one to see corruption.

Darby Bible Translation
For thou wilt not leave my soul to Sheol, neither wilt thou allow thy Holy One to see corruption.

English Revised Version
For thou wilt not leave my soul to Sheol; neither wilt thou suffer thine holy one to see corruption.

Webster's Bible Translation
For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thy Holy One to see corruption.

World English Bible
For you will not leave my soul in Sheol, neither will you allow your holy one to see corruption.

Young's Literal Translation
For Thou dost not leave my soul to Sheol, Nor givest thy saintly one to see corruption


Bless you ....><>

 

[Brother-Paul]

Paradise is in Abrahams' bosom -- part of that is Hades or Sheol and the other part is Paradise. That is where believers went prior to the resurrection of Jesus Christ. When arose , He went to Paradise to bring it's occupants back up with Him.

So -- actually - the Paradise part no longer exists -- everyone who's a believer is with Jesus upon their death.

A garden Can be a paradise because it would be beautiful to be in / around.

Paradise translated is garden or park, as the Garden of Eden. We would expect trees in both of these, as is confirmed in Genesis and in Revelation.

Sue,

Abraham's bosom is a man's chest. There is nothing in Scripture that says Abraham's bosom or Paradise are a part of Hades. Hades is the grave. Abraham's bosom is a man's chest. Paradise is a garden. When Jesus was speaking to the thief the garden he referred to is in the Kingdom.

I have to agree with @Butch5 here sister, OT understanding refers back to Abraham in which the Jewish faith and Israel was built.

Luke 23:43 (NKJV)
43 And Jesus said to him, "Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise."

Greek Strong's Number: 3857
Greek Word: παράδεισος
Transliteration: paradeisos
Phonetic Pronunciation:par-ad'-i-sos
Root: of Oriental origin cf , <H6508>
Cross Reference: TDNT - 5:765,777
Vine's Words: Paradise
English Words used in KJV:
paradise 3
[Total Count: 3]
of Oriental origin [compare <H6508> (pardec)]; a park, i.e. (special) an Eden (place of future happiness, “paradise”) :- paradise.
Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary.


Hebrew Strong's Number: 6508
Hebrew Word: ‏פַּרְדֵּס‎
Transliteration: pardēs
Phonetic Pronunciation:par-dace'
Root: of foreign origin, Greek <G3857>
Vine's Words: None
English Words used in KJV:
orchard 2
forest 1
[Total Count: 3]
of foreign origin; a park :- forest, orchard.
Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary.

The Greek word Jesus used translates as garden or park

The Hebrew word used translates as a park (large garden) with trees.

It is interesting here, I think, how little the word Paradise is used in both the OT and the NT, but the meaning is the same.

The question I feel this leaves us is, where is Paradise? It is in the 'Current' Heaven, with the Tree of Life, none of which we will see until we are with our Lord.

 

[Brother-Paul]

Romans 8. The earth restored, redeemed, renewed, released from bondage to death, and glorified. The new Jerusalem will be at the centre of it, and the whole of creation will sing God's praises.

Amen

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings Brother-Paul

[sidetracking somewhat but if i may add a little?]

Greetings Sue,

I am not being nitpicky, just to clarify... 'We' are being made perfect through Christ, we are as scripture states, practicing righteousness, we will not be perfect in this life, God takes us all as we are, sinners, we come to Him through Jesus, via the cross, from then to our last breath He moulds us to be the people He wants us to be, He moulds us to be ready for heaven.

Bless you.

As you mentioned earlier about striving, we strive against the storm, so to speak, against the tide of the flesh, the world, the carnal man, all the while being held according to God's love, mercy and grace, sealed and kept. I think that is what your reference to 'practicing righteousness' is about.
A little something from Horatius Bonar (1808 - 1889)

"We are getting rid of sin. Each pain is a nail driven through some sin, another blow inflicted on the flesh, destroying the very power of sinning. As we entered on our first life, sin fastened its chain upon us, and link after link twined itself about us. When we commenced our second and better life, these began one by one to untwine themselves. Affliction untwined them faster; and though it is not till we are laid on a deathbed or till Jesus come that the last link of earth is thoroughly untwined or broken, still it is consolation to think that each successive trial is helping on the blessed consummation. A lifetime’s sufferings would not be too long or too heavy, if by means of them we got rid of sin and sinful ways and tempers, and became more holy, more heavenly, more conformable to the image of the Lord. When first we believed in Jesus, we were “delivered from a present evil world.” Yet this deliverance is not complete. The world and we have not yet fully parted company with each other. And, therefore, God drives affliction like a wedge between us and the world; or He sends it like a plowshare right across our most cherished hopes and brightest prospects till He thoroughly wearies us of all below. “He hath made me weary,” said Job. Nor do we wonder at the complaint. Wearisome nights were his. The “ploughers ploughed upon his back,” and drew many a long furrow there. He might well be weary. So with us. God makes us weary, too, weary all over—thoroughly weary. We act weary of a present evil world, weary of self, weary of sin, weary of suffering, weary of this mortal body, weary of these vile hearts, weary of earth—weary of all but Jesus! Of Him no trial can weary us. Suffering only endears Him the more. Blessed suffering —that makes Him appear more precious and the world viler; that brings Him nearer to our hearts and thrusts the world away!"


For Thou, O God, hast proved us: Thou hast tried us, as silver is tried.
Psalm 66:10


Bless you ....><>

 

[Brother-Paul]

For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
Psalm 16:10

Expanding a little on the words in this verse if I may brother...

Psalm 16:10 (NKJV)
For You will not leave my soul in Sheol, Nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption.

SOUL briefly
Hebrew Strong's Number: 5315
Hebrew Word: ‏נֶפֶשׁ‎
Transliteration: nepesh
from <H5314> (naphash); properly a breathing creature
Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary.

SHOEL
Hebrew Strong's Number: 7585
Hebrew Word: ‏שְׁאוֹל‎
Transliteration: sheʾôl
Phonetic Pronunciation:sheh-ole'
Hebrew Word: ‏שְׁאֹל‎
Transliteration: sheʾôl
Phonetic Pronunciation: sheh-ole'
Root: from <H7592>
Vine's Words: Ask (To), Sheol

English Words used in KJV:
grave 31
hell 31
pit 3
[Total Count: 65]

or she'ol, sheh-ole'; from <H7592> (sha'al); hades or the world of the dead (as if a subterranean retreat), including its accessories and inmates :- grave, hell, pit.
Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary.

CORRUPTION
Hebrew Strong's Number: 7845
Hebrew Word: ‏שַׁחַת
Transliteration: shaḥat
Phonetic Pronunciation:shakh'-ath
Root: from <H7743>
Vine's Words: None

English Words used in KJV:
corruption 4
pit 14
destruction 2
ditch 2
grave 1
[Total Count: 23]

from <H7743> (shuwach); a pit (especially as a trap); figurative destruction :- corruption, destruction, ditch, grave, pit.
Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary.

Blessings

 

[Brother-Paul]

A lifetime’s sufferings would not be too long or too heavy, if by means of them we got rid of sin and sinful ways and tempers, and became more holy, more heavenly, more conformable to the image of the Lord.

This is so true brother... A lifetime’s sufferings would not be too long or too heavy...

And as our sinful ways diminish, we became more holy, more heavenly, more conformable to the image of the Lord.

We become more righteous, as He is righteous. Sin mars the image of Christ in us, His light can only really shine forth from us as righteousness grows and the weeds of sin are killed off in us. The weeds of the world remain, as the parable tells us we have to live among them for Christ's Light to be revealed to them, but our sinful, wicked ways, the old man in us gradually dies as the new life in Christ grows from His righteousness we become righteous, because we practice righteousness.

For Thou, O God, hast proved us: Thou hast tried us, as silver is tried.
Psalm 66:10

Thanks be to God in Jesus Precious Name. Amen

 

[Sue D.]

Paradise translated is garden or park, as the Garden of Eden. We would expect trees in both of these, as is confirmed in Genesis and in Revelation.



I have to agree with @Butch5 here sister, OT understanding refers back to Abraham in which the Jewish faith and Israel was built.

Luke 23:43 (NKJV)
43 And Jesus said to him, "Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise."

Greek Strong's Number: 3857
Greek Word: παράδεισος
Transliteration: paradeisos
Phonetic Pronunciation:par-ad'-i-sos
Root: of Oriental origin cf , <H6508>
Cross Reference: TDNT - 5:765,777
Vine's Words: Paradise
English Words used in KJV:
paradise 3
[Total Count: 3]
of Oriental origin [compare <H6508> (pardec)]; a park, i.e. (special) an Eden (place of future happiness, “paradise”) :- paradise.
Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary.


Hebrew Strong's Number: 6508
Hebrew Word: ‏פַּרְדֵּס‎
Transliteration: pardēs
Phonetic Pronunciation:par-dace'
Root: of foreign origin, Greek <G3857>
Vine's Words: None
English Words used in KJV:
orchard 2
forest 1
[Total Count: 3]
of foreign origin; a park :- forest, orchard.
Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary.

The Greek word Jesus used translates as garden or park

The Hebrew word used translates as a park (large garden) with trees.

It is interesting here, I think, how little the word Paradise is used in both the OT and the NT, but the meaning is the same.

The question I feel this leaves us is, where is Paradise? It is in the 'Current' Heaven, with the Tree of Life, none of which we will see until we are with our Lord.

Then aren't you Also suggesting that Hades and Paradise never existed, either? And I'd agree that in that culture -- the bosom of Abraham was a place of rest for those people. Father Abraham. Maybe the title of Abraham's bosom is figurative so that the people could understand it -- but the existence of Hades(hell) and Paradise were very real places. The Jesus Christ emptied Paradise of all the righteous when He came back and was resurrected, Himself.

Nothing says that Paradise wasn't a beautiful place of fruits and other trees just like the Garden of Eden was.

Does it really matter Where Paradise was ? Since it no longer exists. "Paradise" is where ever Jesus Christ is. And Jesus Christ is in heaven preparing a place for us -- that will be brought down to earth from heaven by God. And That will be for eternity.

 

[Brother-Paul]

Then aren't you Also suggesting that Hades and Paradise never existed, either? And I'd agree that in that culture -- the bosom of Abraham was a place of rest for those people. Father Abraham. Maybe the title of Abraham's bosom is figurative so that the people could understand it -- but the existence of Hades(hell) and Paradise were very real places. The Jesus Christ emptied Paradise of all the righteous when He came back and was resurrected, Himself.

Nothing says that Paradise wasn't a beautiful place of fruits and other trees just like the Garden of Eden was.

Does it really matter Where Paradise was ? Since it no longer exists. "Paradise" is where ever Jesus Christ is. And Jesus Christ is in heaven preparing a place for us -- that will be brought down to earth from heaven by God. And That will be for eternity.

Greetings Sue,

I am not suggesting anything here, just quoting the meaning from the original Hebrew and Greek which our Bible is translated from.

The Truth as we know is in The Word, the original Word. If we accept The Word as we do, we Must accept the original meaning of The Word not a translation that may be incorrect, if we accept the incorrect, or misleading translation we are not accepted the True Word.

 

[B-A-C]

2 Cor 12:2; I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago—whether in the body I do not know, or out of the body I do not know, God knows—such a man was caught up to the third heaven.
2 Cor 12:3; And I know how such a man—whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, God knows—
2 Cor 12:4; was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which a man is not permitted to speak.

Is the third heaven Paradise?

Rev 2:7; 'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will grant to eat of the tree of life which is in the Paradise of God.'

Luke 23:43; And He said to him, "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise."

Now... what this has to do with people going to hell, I don't know.

par-ad'-i-sos
Of Oriental origin (compare [H6508]); a park, that is, (specifically) an Eden (place of future happiness, “paradise”): - paradise.

This word does not occur in the old testament. (Not even in Genesis) but I notice iin the greek definition... it doesn't say "the" Eden.
it says .."an" Eden... meaning a place "like" Eden.