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Women and equality

B-A-C

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Dec 18, 2008
Messages
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The thread may make some women angry. We men have become afraid to talk about this, but lately a lot of verses have come to my attention.
And I have to wonder, did God really create men and women the same?

I have heard dozens of sermons about how husbands should love their wives, and while I do think that is very important, I think maybe a sermon should be preached of wives being submissive to their husbands.

1Cor 11:3 But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ.
1Cor 11:8 For man does not originate from woman, but woman from man;
1Cor 11:9 for indeed man was not created for the woman's sake, but woman for the man's sake.

1Tim 2:11 A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness.
1Tim 2:12 But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet.
1Tim 2:13 For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve.
1Tim 2:14 And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.
1Tim 2:15 But women will be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint.

Gen 2:22 The LORD God fashioned into a woman the rib which He had taken from the man, and brought her to the man.
Gen 2:23 The man said, "This is now bone of my bones, And flesh of my flesh; She shall be called Woman, Because she was taken out of Man."

1Pet 3:1 In the same way, you wives, be submissive to your own husbands so that even if any of them are disobedient to the word, they may be won without a word by the behavior of their wives,
1Pet 3:2 as they observe your chaste and respectful behavior.
1Pet 3:3 Your adornment must not be merely external--braiding the hair, and wearing gold jewelry, or putting on dresses;
1Pet 3:4 but let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the imperishable quality of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is precious in the sight of God.
1Pet 3:5 For in this way in former times the holy women also, who hoped in God, used to adorn themselves, being submissive to their own husbands;
1Pet 3:6 just as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord, and you have become her children if you do what is right without being frightened by any fear.
1Pet 3:7 You husbands in the same way, live with your wives in an understanding way, as with someone weaker, since she is a woman; and show her honor as a fellow heir of the grace of life, so that your prayers will not be hindered.

Eph 5:22 Wives, be subject to your own husbands, as to the Lord.
Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church, He Himself being the Savior of the body.
Eph 5:33 Nevertheless, each individual among you also is to love his own wife even as himself, and the wife must see to it that she respects her husband.

1Cor 14:34 The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says.
1Cor 14:35 If they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church.

I think some good things came out of the equal rights movement. I think women should be allowed to vote,but I wonder if we went too far with some of it.
Women are more strong willed these days, more independant. While that isn't necessarily bad, I think God created us to be married. With men's roles and wives roles.
Men can't get pregnant, men can't breast feed.

Less and less people are having children these days, more and more women are getting college degrees (more women have college degrees than men in the US)
While this isn't neccessarily a bad thing...
There are more latch key kids than ever before,
There are more fatherless children than ever in the history of this nation.
We have the highest teenage preganancy rate, highest abortion rate, highest drug use, highest illiteracy of any industrialized nation, etc...
Is it possible some of this because most kids are in day care, or home alone with television and video games? (Don't even get me started about what's on television these days).

Yes some men abuse women, men desert women, yes men are to blame for much of this, someone is welcome to start another thread talking about how men could be better. Lord knows I could.
But could it be, somewhere in the middle of equality and equal rights.. we forgot what family is? What a mother is really supposed to be. What a wife was meant to be.
I've always wondered in a lesbian "marriage", which one gets up and investigates noises downstars in the middle of the night? Again, I think God made men to naturally
protect the "weaker vessel" (see 1Peter 3:7 above). Of course some women want to stay home and raise children, but can't because of finances and other legitimate reasons.
But do we really need 3 televisions, 4 smart phones, 3 computers, 4 new cars, a bigger house, etc...? Or might we be more content with a loving family and less material things?

I am sorry if I have offended any women, that certainly wasn't the intention here, in fact I am more interested in responses from women as to what the verses above mean to them than a man's perspective.

P.S.
I as I sit back and read this, I can't help but see many things wrong with homeosexual marriages, not just from a Biblical point of view, but even a practical perspective.
 
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It's a fact of life that nothing is equal. and all this equality nonsense is just the work of Satan and Political correctness is just one of the tools in his bag.
The Bible is right as history shows, but we going through a nasty experiment nowdays with all them PC people trying to prove otherwise. and we see men wanting to be woman and women trying to be a man, it's just ridiculous.
When we can see how that thing called Ego is just another of Satan's tools. then it sure can help.
We are all equal under God but we all have our place and i think it sure can help to know our place.
I have seen instances with men that he should not be the head because he is such an idiot or fool, that the woman has to take the lead for the family sake.
 
In the beginning of Creation, Adam and Eve were equal partners with God. They had an intimate personal relationship with God. However, when they chose to be independent from God by eating the fruit of one tree (in defiance of His instruction), they set the human race on the path of competing against each other instead of partnering lovingly as equals for the common good., (cf Gen 3:24-25)

SLE
 
In the beginning of Creation, Adam and Eve were equal partners with God. They had an intimate personal relationship with God. However, when they chose to be independent from God by eating the fruit of one tree (in defiance of His instruction), they set the human race on the path of competing against each other instead of partnering lovingly as equals for the common good., (cf Gen 3:24-25)

SLE

I agree Ed.. In fact they were so equal that Eve came out of Adam. They were origially the same person.
[h=3]Genesis 1:26-28[/h]Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)

26 Then God said, “Let us make humankind in our image, in the likeness of ourselves; and let them rule over the fish in the sea, the birds in the air, the animals, and over all the earth, and over every crawling creature that crawls on the earth.”
27 So God created humankind in his own image;
in the image of God he created him:
male and female he created them.

28 God blessed them: God said to them, “Be fruitful, multiply, fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea, the birds in the air and every living creature that crawls on the earth.”

Then in chapter two...GOD took Adams rib and....
 
We have the highest teenage preganancy rate, highest abortion rate, highest drug use, highest illiteracy of any industrialized nation, etc...
Is it possible some of this because most kids are in day care, or home alone with television and video games? (Don't even get me started about what's on television these days).

This has nothing to do with women's right to equality. And there's no reason whatsoever that a man can't stay home to take care of his child when that child doesn't need to breast feed. I'd even go so far to say it's unfair to men that our society demands they be the breadwinner as opposed to the primary caretaker. Besides, in some cases, the husband is the better parent simply because of individual differences.

Kids being left alone all day or left in day care is more the result of the failing economy. Both parents have jobs because they have to in order to sustain the family.

You might think a homosexual relationship is impractical, but your views don't reflect reality.
 
I agree Ed.. In fact they were so equal that Eve came out of Adam. They were origially the same person.
Genesis 1:26-28
....

I agree, and I think he still wants them to be one person "one flesh" so to speak.
Gen 2:24; Mat 19:5-6; Mark 10:8; 1 Cor 6:16; Eph 5:31
 
I agree, and I think he still wants them to be one person "one flesh" so to speak.
Gen 2:24; Mat 19:5-6; Mark 10:8; 1 Cor 6:16; Eph 5:31

When a Christian is truly married the two are as one.

Now the woman is a helper ( Bible says ) and in that she brings her man to be a greater person than that he could not possibly do by himself and it is she that is a wellspring or key to that greater good. so with out her he is lost in him self and can not grow as he needs her as like a plant needs minerals to grow and only a good woman can provide this. thus the two grow in Christ.
It was not good for a man the Bible says, so that's why God created woman.
They are not equal as they have there positions.
I have never seen anyone that was equal to another in my life time. only under God are all people equal.
Does this mean a man shall be free to abuse his wife, not at all. why should he abuse him self ( the two are one ) in the light of God.
Christ was not a woman. Mary was.
Christ did the will of the Father and his mother Mary, did the will of Christ.
Today we have so called men wanting to be a woman, but the fact is this is Satan at work. what a poor excuses and a obnoxious insult to all woman.
 
Kids being lefs owned alone all day or left in day care is more the result of the failing economy. Both parents have jobs because they have to in order to sustain the family.

When I was a child my family (2 children + Mom and Dad) got along comfortably on one income. But along came sphisticated electronic gadgets, fancier cars etc. and the philosophy that "whoever has the most toys wins". As a society, our western world appetite for stuff grew to the point where we measured our self esteem by comparing our stuff to what others owned and the old Bible verse "For the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil" (1 Tim 6:10)[/I] has been proven true.

SLE
 
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That's true for the upper-middle class in some cases. I also know a lot of mothers who join the workforce because they're bored or they want a little extra cash. But families living off minimum wage need 2+ jobs just to get everyone fed and get the bills paid.
 
When I was a child my family (2 children + Mom and Dad) got along comfortably on one income. But along came sphisticated electronic gadgets, fancier cars etc. and the philosophy that "whoever has the most toys wins". As a society, our western world appetite for stuff grew to the point where we measured our self esteem by comparing our stuff to what others owned and the old Bible verse "For the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil" (1 Tim 6:10)[/I] has been proven true.

SLE

This is not a result of electronics or fancier cars, this is a result of the money changers in Washington, specifically in the Federal Reserve. Up until 1913 the United States was on a Gold Standard but then Woodrow Wilson signed the unconstitutional Federal Reserve Act which established a central bank. Now we still remained on a gold standard, however it wasn't entirely honest. They printed money that wasn't backed by gold, infact that is why we had the Crash of 1920-21 and the Great Depression. Because the monetary base was expanded without a gold backing. The Federal Reserve wrote checks they couldn't cash. All the new money flowed into the stock market and created booms, and then the inevitable busts. It was like giving the economy heroin. For a little while everything would feel great, but eventually the high would wear off and the economy would go through withdrawals because with all the new money and easy credit, people did things they wouldn't normally do. They would invests in projects or businesses that were not practical and when the easy credit dried up the businesses would fail. That was the withdrawals. The Withdrawals were necessary to go through to restructure the economy and get us on a sustainable path again.

The Crash of 1920-21 was actually a larger initial crash than the Black Tuesday Crash in 1929. The difference between the 1920 crash and the 1929 crash was government involvement. In 1920-21 crash the government did nothing. The pain during the crash was bad, but the economy was able to correct itself and grow again. In 1929 after the crash Herbert Hoover intervened and tried to stimulate our way out of the depression, create job programs. Pretty much the typical Keynesian economic prescription that modern day "economists" use. Well because the government was distorting the market, the market couldn't properly correct itself and thus, we had the largest and longest depression in US history.

After World War II the US Govt went around the world and proposed a new monetary system called the Bretton Woods System. The Bretton Woods system made it so that instead of foreign Central Banks backing up their currencies with gold, they would back them up with the dollar... and at the time of creation, the dollar was backed up by gold. Of course, that's the only reason the system made sense, if the dollar was backed by nothing than we couldn't have conned the world into signing up for this arrangement. But, at the time, every other country knew that the dollar was as good as gold, and if they had $35 they could exchange it for 1 ounce of gold, that was the deal that we made with the world. And what was in it for the world? Well, if they held dollars they earned interest. If they held gold, they had storage costs. It made sense. Hold dollars because the dollar is backed by Gold, America was the world's richest country, we had the largest trade surplus, we were the worlds biggest creditor nation, we have 90% of the gold.. Good deal for the world right?

Well it was actually a great deal for the US government, because the minute the government got that privilege they abused it. Because now all of the sudden we could pay for our imports by printing money. Technically the government was supposed to make sure the money was totally backed by gold, but that didn't stop the government, they just lied. They wrote checks that they couldn't really cash, assuming that the other countries would not care, or not notice. Well after the 1960s when spending went through the roof with the Vietnam war, the War on Poverty, the guns and butter economy, the Great Society and all these government programs, we were running large deficits. Some of our creditors began to notice this and realized that we couldn't possibly have enough gold to back up these IOU's, which is what Federal Reserve Notes (today's dollars) were, they were promises to pay real money (gold).

So rather than acting responsibly and allowing deflation, cutting government spending and doing the right thing, the politicians did the expedient thing and an almost unthinkable thing. They Defaulted. Nixon basically told our Creditors "We promised to give you gold for your dollars, we are now going to give you nothing. You can hold on to the dollars if you want, but you are not going to get any gold."

The world should have gone back on a gold standard at that point, but they didn't. They marked the dollar down dramatically, the dollar lost about 2/3rds of its value during the 1970s. Prior to the 1970s a US dollar would get you 4.5 Deutsche Marks and a Swiss Frank was worth about 30 Cents. Well After 1971 A Dollar would only get you 1.5 Deutsche Marks and a Swiss Frank was worth about 80 cents. Oil prices went from $3 a barrel to $30 a barrel. The dollar devaluation is why oil prices went up, it wasn't entirely because of the Arabs, or OPEC, it was because of Nixon and what the government did. Because of all the money we printed, the dollar lost value. Oil Prices didn't go up at all in terms of gold. The price of Gold went from $35 to $800...

And this is where I will get to my point of when our society started to decline and women were REQUIRED to leave home to make ends meet.

A lot of other interesting things happened in the 1970s as well. Loads of women entered the work force, and it wasn't because they were liberated. Women were allowed to work long before that. But as a result of all this inflation and all the taxes, husbands could no longer afford to support their families, so the wives had to get jobs too just to keep their families afloat.

Right during 1971, people's wages stopped increasing with productivity. It is because of the devaluation of the dollar. This is a real reason for the widening of the wealth gap, it's not because rich people are all evil and are trying to steal people's wealth... Who does inflation hurt more? Poor and Middle Class people or Wealthy people? If you are poor and every dollar counts, and the value of your dollars goes down you are hurting. Inflation doesn't hurt wealthy people as much who can afford the higher prices, many people actually profit from Inflation. This is not a consequence of free markets. What's happening is there's transfer of wealth from the poor and the middle class to the wealthy. This comes about because of the monetary system that we have. When you inflate a currency or destroy a currency, the middle class gets wiped out, so the people who get to use the money first, which is created by the Federal Reserve System, benefit, so the money gravitates to the banks and to Wall Street. That's why you have more billionaires than ever before.

Today this country IS in the middle of a recession.. for a lot of people. Michigan knows about it. Poor people know about it. The middle class knows about it. Wall Street doesn't know about it. Washington, D.C., doesn't know about it. But it's because of the monetary system and the excessive government spending. As long as we live beyond our means, we are destined to live beneath our means. And we have lived beyond our means because we are financing a foreign policy that is so extravagant and beyond what we can control, as well as the welfare spending here at home, and we're depending on the creation of money out of thin air, which is nothing more than debasement of the currency. It's counterfeit. And it is a natural, predictable consequence that you're going to have people benefit from it and other people suffer.



The dollar didn't totally collapse in the early 1980s because Federal Reserve Chairman Volcker raised interest rates to 20% and cooled inflation a little bit and created some confidence in the dollar. So the world continued to function and the dollar still remains the reserve currency of the world.

But the system should have failed, that is the problem. We should have gone back to a gold standard. The problem with the system we have now is that a Swiss Frank or an Aussie Dollar and all these other foreign currencies aren't backed by gold because they were backed by dollars which were supposed to be backed by gold. But if the Swiss Frank is backed by the dollar and the dollar is backed by nothing than the Swiss Frank is backed by nothing.

So that is basically when we embarked on this Giant experiment that has failed every time it has been tried. The whole world is on this Fiat money system that is created by the Central Banks. But of course, once the world knew the dollar was backed by nothing, now it was so much easier for the US government to run deficits... Much easier when they had to pretend it was backed by gold under the Bretton Woods system. At least back then, when LBJ was spending all the money, he had to worry that a foreign nation might figure out what was going on. So Basically, When we told the world, "you are going to get nothing for your dollars" then there was no limit to how many dollars we could print.


And that is when the US economy began this massive transformation from the world's biggest creditor, to the world's biggest debtor, from the worlds biggest exporter to the worlds biggest importer. Everything changed when we began to live off the printing press and debt. Because when the dollar can be just printed out of thin air and the world is going to take it, we can buy all these products from our trading partners for nothing.


When the Chinese are making things for Americans, they need land labor and capital, people have to work hard in factories to produce the things we buy. What do we give them in return? Just some money that we ran off a printing press. And what do they do with it? Nothing. All they can do with it is loan it back to us and buy treasuries. And what are treasuries? Just more dollars.

And a lot of people think that the Chinese are benefiting from this relationship. They are not gaining at all, we are the ones benefiting in the short run. We get all the stuff and they get all the work. Well, what good is all the work without the stuff? See, the politicians are trying to say they get all the jobs. Well so what? The slaves had jobs... It wasn't a good deal for the slaves. These jobs are not a good deal for the Chinese if we get all the stuff they produce. The whole reason countries export is so they can import something else. Well what good is exporting if you don't get anything in return? The whole idea behind exporting is not to create jobs, it is really to eliminate jobs. The reason to export is so you can import something else. Because we want to consume and how do you consume as much as possible? If there is something that you can produce really well or that you can make more efficiently than people in some other nation, rather than trying to make everything, you just make the things you make best, and then you trade for things that other people make better than you. But the whole reason to export something is because you want to buy something else with that money. You don't export just so you can have a job, that would be a waste of labor.

What happens when we trade with the rest of the world is, they send us stuff, and what we basically say is "I got nothing for you... But I have an IOU (dollar)".. And they take it because it is the world's reserve currency. And maybe in the back of their mind they think they can use it to buy something. But meanwhile what are they going to buy? What is America making? Every year we make less and less stuff that they want... The stuff that the Chinese want to buy is all made in China. I mean, that's where the stuff that we want to buy is.


And for a while this system was maintained. But now we have this entire bubble... this entire phony economy that is predicated on Americans borrowing money that we didn't save, to buy products that we can't afford and didn't make. And this whole thing is phony. All of our economic policy today is designed to sustain this. Nobody wants to allow it to be corrected, because the correction happens in a recession. The market tried to restructure in 2001 after the Tech bubble, but the politicians didn't want to deal with a recession. A recession is basically like withdrawal symptoms. The govt has been pumping all this stimulus heroin into the economy and it created a boom, but then it wore off and now we are left with the withdrawals. If you want to cure a drug addiction you HAVE to go through the withdrawals at some point. But the government and the Federal Reserve won't let that happen. They do the politically expedient thing and pumped the economy with even more heroin. If I was running a rehab center for heroin addicts and I gave them more heroin, sure, they would love me and I would be popular, but am I really helping them? No. I would be killing them. Well that is what the government is doing.

In early 2000 we had the tech bubble as a result of low interest rates and easy money. What did the government do? They lowered interest rates even more and tried to stimulate the economy. They subsidiezed things like housing. The government made it so low income people could get mortgages with no down payment. The government said banks that refused to give out loans to people that clearly didn't have the means to repay were "discriminating" so the government forced the banks to make the loans. Clearly the banks knew that these loans would go bad, but the government forced them to make them so what did they do? They repackaged them and sold them elsewhere.

Now after 2001-2008 the Economy was doing great. Everybody felt like they won the lottery during the housing bubble. In California a lot of people quit their jobs... Why have a job when you can just buy a house and make $150,000 in a year?

The prices of homes kept going up because of the heroin, because of the govt sanctioned low lending standards. Anybody and everybody could get credit to buy a home so everybody and there brother bought one. That bid up the prices of homes for everyone. (This is currently happening right now in the student loan industry. Everybody can get student loans, more people get loans and thus the prices of college go through the roof).

So eventually the boom wore off and we had a bust. Wealth was destroyed. We built all these houses that nobody needed. We WASTED resources producing homes. Today there are over 18 MILLION vacant houses in the US, most of which were built during the bubble.

In 2008 we started going into a recession again. What did the government do? They lowered Interest rates EVEN MORE... during the housing bubble interest rates went down to 1%. Now they are at 0%. We bailed out the banks and we did multiple MASSIVE Stimulus programs.

We have a lot of problems, and one of the biggest problems is the fact that interest rates are too low. Interest rates have to go up. We are never going to have a real recovery, we are never going to have real economic growth and we are never going to create productive jobs unless interest rates go up. But that is going to be very painful because we are so overly indebted.

What is going to happen when interest rates go up? Banks are going to fail, and next time we won't even be able to think about bailing them out. (which we never should have done in the first place) What's going to happen to the housing market? It's going to go down more... It needs to go down more, that is part of the correction, prices were too high. They are still to high, especially considering that there are 18 million vacant homes. What about the government? What's going to happen when interest rates go up? Well, the government is going to have to dramatically reduce spending. they might have to default on the bonds that they have already sold.

The only reason the government can pay the interest on the debt is because interest rates are extremely low. Almost at 0%. What happens when rates go up? They won't be able to afford to pay for the debt, we won't be any more able to pay our bonds back than the Greeks can. For a while Interest rates were at record lows in Greece, and the Greeks had no problems. But then interest rates went up and now you have a crisis. The same thing is going to happen here. Now there are people that think that is never going to happen because interest rates are never going to rise. Well that's impossible. They have to rise. What is the consequence of keeping interest rates artificially low? We continue to screw up our economy, instead of allowing market forced to correct the imbalances, we make the imbalances bigger. The more we stimulate the economy with a toxin.. because that is what stimulus is, it is a toxic sedative and eventually you overdose on it, the worse the underlying problems in our economy are going to get.

If we keep interest rates low, nobody is going to save. I mean who is going to save money that is depreciating in value even faster than it is now. So it is going to destroy savings, it is going to destroy the ability of the economy to generate capital and to generate growth and production. It's going to create massive inflation.

Now the government can lie about inflation for a while. They can hide it behind these doctored up CPI numbers. The formulas that the government use to calculate CPI are flawed, they are deliberately engineered to get a low number, that's why they are there. But of course when they are measuring prices they are not even measuring inflation, they are measuring an effect of inflation. The government doesn't even include rising food and fuel prices in their calculations of inflation.

Also, for each 1% interest rates go up, the government will have an additional $160 BILLION dollars in debt each year. Imagine if they went up to 20% like they did in the early 80s. Where are we going to get an ADDITIONAL 3.6 Trillion dollars from? That would make the deficit go up to $6.8 TRILLION Dollars. Where are we going to get that money? We can't possibly repay it, we will either inflate it away or default.

So all of our economic and monetary policy is designed to postpone the day of reckoning beyond the next election. That is all the government cares about. "How can we get through 2012 without everything hitting the fan". And they don't care that the policies they are pursuing are just making all of the problems worse. And when we look at the economy and people say "Oh, the economy is growing. Look at the GDP." The economy is not growing. We are spending more borrowed money, that is not economic growth. Look at the debt. In the last few years look how much the debt has skyrocketed, It has grown much more than the GDP. And it will continue to skyrocket under Obama. And even if Romney was elected it still would have gone through the roof.

All this consumption has been financed with debt, it's not real prosperity. It's phony, it's like looking at half of a balance sheet. You are looking at the assets but you are ignoring all the liabilities. Or on an income statement, you look at the income, but you don't look at the expenses. We are not better off because the GDP went up, we are worse off. Where did that money come from? We borrowed it. And what did we do with it? We spent it on consumption. We didn't invest it, we don't have more factory equipment... we blew it. The government wasted it.

The bubble that we had as a result of the cheap money that the Fed created in the 1990s, well that inflated the stock market, tech bubble. When that bubble burst, instead of letting the market correct the problem, George Bush, the Fed and Congress deliberately created more stimulus and that created the housing bubble. When that bubble burst, instead of sucking it up and admitting "Gee, we really screwed up after the last bubble, lets do the right thing now. Let's let the market, run its course." Instead of doing that and taking a more painful recession which was now necessary because we didn't take our medicine the first time, they did the same mistake and now we are inflating a government bubble.

The government bubble is bigger than the housing bubble and it is bigger than the stock market bubble. And it's going to burst, it is no more sustainable than the last two bubbles were, and you can see it in the bond market, you can see it in the currency market, but the real crisis that is coming as a result of the fact that we no longer have sound money, we are printing all this money and running all these deficits. It is going to be a sovereign debt crisis, a collapse of the US government bond market, a collapse in the dollar on a much grander scale than what we are see playing out right now in Europe. And if you remember when the housing bubble first began to crack, and the signs showed up first in the sub prime market, all the experts and all the top economists in the Bush Administration and down to Wall Street were on television, reassuring everybody not to worry, because the problem was all contained in the Sub Prime market. "Just a Sub Prime problem, tiny little problem, don't worry about it, the market is sound".. Well at the time Austrian economists and libertarians were saying "that's not true... It's not just a sub prime problem it is a mortgage problem." And it turned out the Libertarians were right. Everything was already sick... It was just a matter of time before the symptoms showed up in the market.

Well that's the same thing that is happening with sovereigns in Europe. This is not an Italian problem, or a Greek problem, or an Irish problem. It's a debt problem. And we have got way more debt than Europe. Just because we can print money, and we have the world's reserve currency, doesn't mean that we are immune from these economic laws. Right now, I think this is a time in history when the sovereigns are being held accountable. Just like the Italians or the Greeks have borrowed more money than their citizens can repay, the US government has borrowed more money than we can possible repay. And we aren't going to be able to do it by raising taxes on the 1%. We can't even do it by raising taxes on the 99% as if the government could possible extract all that revenue.


We are going to have to go through a restructuring or we are going to have to go through a default, one way or another. And there are two ways that, that can happen. We either legitimately default and don't pay, we tell bond holders we won't be able to pay them 100 cents on the dollars and tell pensioners that they are going to have to take a cut, and we gut the Federal Budget for the military and federal social spending including Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid.... Or we just print the money up and pay them back with worthless dollars. That's it. There's only two ways that we can repudiate our debt. There's no way that we are going to pay the debt. The Chinese have to know this, and we are going to figure this out.


So yeah, the Gist of this is that because the dollar is less valuable, women are now required to work as well just to make ends work. It used to be that the Husband could work and have enough money to make ends meet. That is rare now. I probably should have just said that from the beginning... Oh well
 
What? So the man is king in his own home and his wife is his servant? That's pure blat. Mans wisdom. LOL Come on man! Where did woman come from? Out of Adam. How can man be higher than a woman.

The fact is men are better than women. On the other hand...women are better than men. LOL Its true. Men are better at some things and women are better at other things... Together they make a whole. The woman is a help...fit for the man How? She completes him. She is no more his servant than he is hers.

Read the WORD. Its all there.

You hear in church all the time how the woman should be to her husband but the WORD talks to us men at least three times more about how we should be to our women.
 
What? So the man is king in his own home and his wife is his servant? That's pure blat. Mans wisdom. LOL Come on man! Where did woman come from? Out of Adam. How can man be higher than a woman.

The fact is men are better than women. On the other hand...women are better than men. LOL Its true. Men are better at some things and women are better at other things... Together they make a whole. The woman is a help...fit for the man How? She completes him. She is no more his servant than he is hers.

Read the WORD. Its all there.

You hear in church all the time how the woman should be to her husband but the WORD talks to us men at least three times more about how we should be to our women.

From the position of God, he made man and woman, and there you go, end of story.( it was not man and man as this was not good.)
Today's poor politically correct worshiping, ego inspired satanic bunch of dolts do not understand that "God the Father" is one that you must serve, and the thing is, it's only him we serve and do as he has said. so we serve each other but we have both have a position and the man is the head.

One of the problems is in the modern world, we can live in a dream like state removed from the harshness of realities, like go have a look around the 3 rd world and see if women want to be the head, like now days in our wimpy world we have gutless males that run and hide behind there wives like little boys. and that's the sad fact, i see so much of this with people under 40's especially, it's so creepy it sickens me to see them being lead around on a leach like the mongrel dogs they are. and then they buy presents to win there women's favour, because due to there sick ill gotten deeds. and the fact is there woman despise them and before to long they discard such, due to such embarrassment.

Fact is a true Christian woman loves to look up to her man and as such and so does a Christian man have esteem for his woman.

I work in the building industry and if people were to build a house, who do you think i should take orders from ? both ? both no ! not at all, as that's a recipe for disaster. as there is one and one only, be it the man or the woman. but their can only be one.
 
OK I'm not arguing that the man has the position of leader of his family. And I agree that most men in our society are wimps. That is a result of this womens lib junk that started in the sixties and seventies. Men are not taught how to be a man and women are taught to be men. Men are not allowed to be a man because if he shows appreciation for a beautiful woman, holds doors for her, compliments her, all open innocent and proper he still gets slammed with sexual harrassment charges. For myself, I tend to ignore women in general, or treat them just like any man. "Hey girl, you got heavy work. Do it yourself. You're a good man girl."

I had one of those girls working for me in one job I had. She was my "oiler' on a drill. She had to move power cable that weighed nine pounds a foot. A lot of it. She came stomping onto the drill one time and insisted she run the drill while I did her job. Uh uh. "You do it" I told her. "Same as any man. Mining is a mans environment for a reason. Its a mans work. You took it on...You do the job"

On the other hand, my wife is a lady. Gentle loving serving etc. That makes me want to do to do the same for her. But I am the head of my household.
We discuss and I decide based on our discussions. She is a wise woman. A man would be a fool not to listen to his wife, before he decides anything.
 
B A C: I read your profile. I now know why you are single, LOL. I am not wanting to attack your post. My wife and I have been married nearly 44 years. That means we have 88 years eperience in marriage combined. LOL. So let me tell you how it really is, ok? Marriage is not for the faint of heart or lazy men. Marriage means HAVING TO SAY YOUR SORRY. (that was reversed from the movie LOVE STORY where the couple says "love is never having to say your sorry", and anyone stupid enough to believe that, is headed for divorce court. Now lets get real. The Bible should read "the woman is the softer one" not the weaker one. Most women can whip the tar out of her man, with one finger placed right on his heart. Women relate to issues by feelings, they can see right through the hurt in a mans eyes. Men usually react, without thinking or getting all the facts. A wife will give sex in order to get love. A husband will give love inorder to get sex. That's the way we sre wired by God. Much of why we do things is because the Lord has given to us because he made us male and female.

My opinion is, women are very strong and able to cope with poor conditions in their house, and not the best clothes, move when their husband has a job change, stand by when their husband has lost his job. Most wives will endure very hard times as long as they are appreciated and loved. For most men it takes a lot to see how much their wife works being a mother and house keeper, let alone all the rest she is expected to do. Many single mom's have no choice but to be mom and dad. They work 40+ hours at the job and still do everything else.

By saying "we might have gone too far when we let women vote". You got to be joking! you are right? Don't say it to loud or women might have a movement to remove men's right to vote! LOL. Women usually have to work hard for everything they have in public life and in most areas of her daily traffic pattern of life. I see first hand how much my wife does, and we are retired. The Bible in Proverbs says many times how blessed we are to have a good wife. I can say I sure am blessed so much.

Women have to be independant, often because some brave jerk took off for some bimbo that wants a sugar daddy. When a man gets a divorce (no matter who got the divorce) they have things pretty good. But the woman has to fight to get child support, and give visitation rights no matter if the dad does not send a dime for support, for years. As the children grow and they need more things like clothes, more food, school expenses, health insurance, and much more. Their support money has not gone up, but they must get by on less money then when the child was 2 or three. I say these things because a good percent of single women are just this way. This can be true of a single dad too, but not near as often.

In the Bible where we read it, we must take into consideration the culture back then. Women seldom had an education compared to men, So the Bible instructs that a woman should be quiet in church, and ask their husbands later. Now with so many churches that have many more women than men. Perhaps because men are not so much involved with church or reading the Bible, we should say "men be quiet until you get home and you wife can explain it to you. LOL. There is a lot that seems backwards today. We ordain men to be missionaries, but women are not ordained in some denominations. This practice is now changed in some churches, and denominations. Yet in some churches women are only allowed to care for infants (until they are potty trained). Men teach all the Sunday schools, and do everything, well that's not the kitchen duty, that's women's work. There is so many issues that hold women down. So friend rethink again on how we men should consider our wife as a co-equal.
 
The LORD bowed down on bended knee and washed his Brides feet.

Let men who desire to be Lords over their wives stop conforming to the pattern of the men of the world, and learn what Lordship really means from the Master.

Rom_12:2 1Pe 1:14 Eph 5:25
 
B A C: I read your profile. I now know why you are single, LOL. I am not wanting to attack your post. My wife and I have been married nearly 44 years. That means we have 88 years eperience in marriage combined. LOL. So let me tell you how it really is, ok?

In the Bible where we read it, we must take into consideration the culture back then. Women seldom had an education compared to men, So the Bible instructs that a woman should be quiet in church, and ask their husbands later. Now with so many churches that have many more women than men. Perhaps because men are not so much involved with church or reading the Bible, we should say "men be quiet until you get home and you wife can explain it to you. LOL. There is a lot that seems backwards today. We ordain men to be missionaries, but women are not ordained in some denominations. This practice is now changed in some churches, and denominations. Yet in some churches women are only allowed to care for infants (until they are potty trained). Men teach all the Sunday schools, and do everything, well that's not the kitchen duty, that's women's work. There is so many issues that hold women down. So friend rethink again on how we men should consider our wife as a co-equal.

You may be on to something.

I was married 22 years, and then divorced. (I did not want the divorce and never signed the divorce papers).
5 years later I married again, my second wife died of cancer about 3 1/2 years ago.
As a matter of coincidence, I got married last week. (Thanks for reminding me to update my profile).

I will say my wife reads all of my posts and agrees with my viewpoint even in this thread.
I will also say we are both of the opinion that God and the Bible should define the marriage roles, not "current society or today's culture".
I would say today's society is the last place to look for in what defines the roles in a marriage.

Doe's this really work? I don't know yet, I'll let you know in 44 years.
I do sincerely and whole heartedly congratulate you on 44 years of marriage. I mean that, especially as a man who failed at it.
 
It is suppose to be this way as the Bible states,I wish I could have had such a man. In fact I believe ever woman that loves the Lord wants this. In my case ,and in many now days, we are left with children,or abused by men. Man has left his place, and children. So woman have to be both. Its hard, but as God has said in Psalms, I knew you before you formed in your mothers womb, so he knew what was going to happen to us all, its up to each of us , to trust what God is doing in our lifes,and to keep seeking our Lord Jesus for comfort , and to have compassion and love for one another and not judge, but let God judge. But above all forgive and help those who are in need of what ever. If you havent went hungry or never been sick , how then can you feel compassion for one that is. Its our growing closer to Jesus that we understand his heart, and what he wants for our lifes, and how he wants to use us for his Glory, and draw his people closer . But if they are not willing, and are distracted by the things of this world. Then hes not first.We are suppose to do the things Jesus did and more, but how many are willing to go that extra mile? If its to help a single mom/dad,or feed a homeless person, or visit a sick child ,and not wanting anything in return. I sure we all want a great man/ woman of God, but today its really hard. I have to most amazing husband now, who will never betray or leave me ever and he knows me better than I know myself.He corrects me gently,without judging me. I never want for anything,and never been happier in my life.This is a love that will never die, only gets stronger each day. We all have the most amazing love in our life, from his love all we want is do his will everyday and to seek him out. Its not about what we want , only what Jesus wants. We are to summit one to another, to show nonbelievers a love they want find in the world . That is true and faithfull, that they could reach out to us so we could plant a seed and another could water it,so God could make it grow into what he wants them to become.I know as long as we all live in this flesh, we will desire many things. Like Jesus said in Matt., pick up ur cross and follow me. We have a greater reward in his Kingdom waiting for us, so whatever we have to do here for our Lord is well worth the price we'll have to pay.We are the apple of his eye.
 
Paul certainly created a hornet's nest by declaring the husband to be the Head of the household. Having said that, male-female relationships are meant to be symbiotic. They are equal, but have different responsibilities. Having said that, being the Head of anything also makes one responsible for its success or failure. If you don't believe me, ask a football coach, or a CEO. God did not intend men to be Draconian, nor did he intend women to be slaves. I look upon my wall and I see an electrical outlet. It is called a female connector in electrical jargon. I hold the end of the cord to my computer in my hand which is called the male connector. When I mate the two connectors together, things can happen. If they do not work together, nothing productive happens. When the two work together, they form a circuit of one mutual and happy path.

Another analogy could be a pair of horses pulling a wagon or plow. The driver (or handler) must know how to get the two animals to work together in unison. Otherwise, the job will get done (or may not be) making everyone miserable.


There is no halo over my head. All I can suggest is do what it takes to get the job done, and keep a sense of humour. Take responsibility, acknowledge your own shortcomings without blaming others for their issues. Personally, I do not do well at relationships on any level and tend to be self destructive as such. At the end of the day, I have only myself to blame. It is very rare when only one partner is entirely in the wrong. People sometimes do stupid things even when they know better. If you're happy with your spouse, thank God for that person.

Relationships can be funny things. What we think is really great for us at the moment can work against us later on as what works for us can also work against us. Trust me, I don't understand the question sometimes, let alone the answer. They say Dial-A-Prayer is never busy. Phil 4:8.

Cheers,
John
 
The thread may make some women angry. We men have become afraid to talk about this, but lately a lot of verses have come to my attention.
And I have to wonder, did God really create men and women the same?

I have heard dozens of sermons about how husbands should love their wives, and while I do think that is very important, I think maybe a sermon should be preached of wives being submissive to their husbands.

1Cor 11:3 But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ.
1Cor 11:8 For man does not originate from woman, but woman from man;
1Cor 11:9 for indeed man was not created for the woman's sake, but woman for the man's sake.

1Tim 2:11 A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness.
1Tim 2:12 But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet.
1Tim 2:13 For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve.
1Tim 2:14 And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.
1Tim 2:15 But women will be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint.

Gen 2:22 The LORD God fashioned into a woman the rib which He had taken from the man, and brought her to the man.
Gen 2:23 The man said, "This is now bone of my bones, And flesh of my flesh; She shall be called Woman, Because she was taken out of Man."

1Pet 3:1 In the same way, you wives, be submissive to your own husbands so that even if any of them are disobedient to the word, they may be won without a word by the behavior of their wives,
1Pet 3:2 as they observe your chaste and respectful behavior.
1Pet 3:3 Your adornment must not be merely external--braiding the hair, and wearing gold jewelry, or putting on dresses;
1Pet 3:4 but let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the imperishable quality of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is precious in the sight of God.
1Pet 3:5 For in this way in former times the holy women also, who hoped in God, used to adorn themselves, being submissive to their own husbands;
1Pet 3:6 just as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord, and you have become her children if you do what is right without being frightened by any fear.
1Pet 3:7 You husbands in the same way, live with your wives in an understanding way, as with someone weaker, since she is a woman; and show her honor as a fellow heir of the grace of life, so that your prayers will not be hindered.

Eph 5:22 Wives, be subject to your own husbands, as to the Lord.
Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church, He Himself being the Savior of the body.
Eph 5:33 Nevertheless, each individual among you also is to love his own wife even as himself, and the wife must see to it that she respects her husband.

1Cor 14:34 The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says.
1Cor 14:35 If they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church.

I think some good things came out of the equal rights movement. I think women should be allowed to vote,but I wonder if we went too far with some of it.
Women are more strong willed these days, more independant. While that isn't necessarily bad, I think God created us to be married. With men's roles and wives roles.
Men can't get pregnant, men can't breast feed.

Less and less people are having children these days, more and more women are getting college degrees (more women have college degrees than men in the US)
While this isn't neccessarily a bad thing...
There are more latch key kids than ever before,
There are more fatherless children than ever in the history of this nation.
We have the highest teenage preganancy rate, highest abortion rate, highest drug use, highest illiteracy of any industrialized nation, etc...
Is it possible some of this because most kids are in day care, or home alone with television and video games? (Don't even get me started about what's on television these days).

Yes some men abuse women, men desert women, yes men are to blame for much of this, someone is welcome to start another thread talking about how men could be better. Lord knows I could.
But could it be, somewhere in the middle of equality and equal rights.. we forgot what family is? What a mother is really supposed to be. What a wife was meant to be.
I've always wondered in a lesbian "marriage", which one gets up and investigates noises downstars in the middle of the night? Again, I think God made men to naturally
protect the "weaker vessel" (see 1Peter 3:7 above). Of course some women want to stay home and raise children, but can't because of finances and other legitimate reasons.
But do we really need 3 televisions, 4 smart phones, 3 computers, 4 new cars, a bigger house, etc...? Or might we be more content with a loving family and less material things?

I am sorry if I have offended any women, that certainly wasn't the intention here, in fact I am more interested in responses from women as to what the verses above mean to them than a man's perspective.

P.S.
I as I sit back and read this, I can't help but see many things wrong with homeosexual marriages, not just from a Biblical point of view, but even a practical perspective.

The Bible is sexist when it talks about women.

Job 25:4:How then can man be justified with God? or how can he be clean that is born of a woman?

Ecclesiastes 7:26:And I find more bitter than death the woman, whose heart is snares and nets, and her hands as bands: whoso pleaseth God shall escape from her; but the sinner shall be taken by her.

Even the Tenth Commandment is directed at men only,with women been categorized with servants and animals.

Exodus 20:17:Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ***, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

the word ''his'' is mentioned 4 times!

And it does not say ''thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's husband''
 
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