Women, church and head coverings

[Hekuran]

The woman was created as a helpmate.

18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
Ge 2:18.

The man was created first and the woman was created out of the man. Therefore, Paul says that the man is the head of the woman.

3 But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God. (1 Cor. 11:3 NKJ)

His reason for the headcover is the created order. God is the head of Christ. Christ is the head of man. Man is the head of woman. Referring back to the passage from gen 2:18 he says,

8 For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. 9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man. 10
( 1 Co 11:8–10.)

For this reason he concludes that a woman should cover her head because of the angels.

10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.
( 1 Co 11:10.)

It seems a lot of people miss this part about the angels, yet, it's the reason for the headcover. What is it about the angels? Satan and about one third of the angels rebelled and left their ranks.

6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day
( Jud 6.)

The apostle Paul says that God is using the church to make known his manifold wisdom to the principalities and power in the heavens.

10 to the intent that now the manifold wisdom of God might be made known by the church to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places,
11 according to the eternal purpose which He accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord,
12 in whom we have boldness and access with confidence through faith in Him.
(Eph. 3:10-12 NKJ)

Because God is using the church to make known his wisdom to the principalities and powers the women should have their heads covered. This acknowledges their rank. Each one has a rank. The Father is the Head, the Son is under the Father. Man is under the Son, and the woman is under the man. This is God's created order. If the women don't cover they are rejecting their rank. If the men do cover they reject their rank. That is what the angels who fell did. They rejected their rank. By each of us Christians acknowledging our ranks we show the justice of God.

No. Wrong. Women are not ranked beneath men in God's order.

 

[MedicBravo]

Ok let me extend a question then what is the difference in value? Does a man equal a woman? Does a woman equal a man? I am perplexed by the rule. Is it cultural? Why is the difference not a perfectly obvious natural one? Men are drawn to women and is it not callousness hiding in the heart that would assign them to any lesser place but equal? I never argue with the bible. I know the perfection of spirit is found in it. But not just wife or woman but everyone is to be placed in a place of equality always. If that were not so how do you frame your Justice. The covering doctrine must have more than the simple word. There must be a meaning and context that sets the details of meaning. To be candid I don't know what they could be. But Equality is an position that I could not compromise at all with. Women are not pets and that is the place inequality assigns them.

Ok.

1. "what is the difference in value?" - Where did this come from? God is first then man then woman in the order of the church and family. We can infer your initial reaction and many will ASSume that Christian men think they "own" women and that women should be slaves which is absurd.
2. We're not saved nor elevated by actions. It was a norm back then as they were expected to follow OT rules. In modern day, this can be applied, subjectively by a woman who feels this is applicable, More importantly outward showings of our faith like baptism or head coverings in this case show everyone their stance. Note: A head covering is VERY different from the curtain rags and trash in Islam. It is not the same.
3. The "Traditional Wife/Woman" is more attune to, akin to a God centered woman and when married, the husband as the head of the family. The Christian man/husband's responsibility is to God first, self second, and when those are done right the Wife and Family fall into place. It's the Order of Things, if you will.
4. This is required at church. Some women feel they should wear it outside of the home when not in church and IMO, that is also good. It doesn't make her any less than b/c she does it or better than women who don't b/c she does.
5. We'll never be 100% equal. We were made differently for many reasons. We are the problem when it comes to equality.
Where did your "Women are not pets and that is the place inequality assigns them." from?
The few/minority do not define a majority. Ever.
Modesty however IS a requirement of both sexes both in and out of church. Look around and you'll see how easily both groups wear "whatever" and "wherever".
A good Christian woman will wear modest clothing at all times and a man (or woman ) is going to look at either sex no matter what they are wearing.
I notice those women far more than the rest b/c they're NOT showing off more of her body than these women.
Whatever the world is doing, do not do that. Turn to God and Scripture.

 

[Curtis]

Gal 3:26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27 For as many as were baptized into Christ, you put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There cannot be Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is no male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

In Christ all distinctions disappear for in Christ there is no “male or female”.

 

[MedicBravo]

"To Christ...."
We, however do not have that luxury.
You can try to change your mindset towards others but in reality, fact, evidence, stereotypes, and racial profiling would put labels on everyone and in large save lives.

 

[Butch5]

No. Wrong. Women are not ranked beneath men in God's order.

Care to elaborate?

 

[Hekuran]

Care to elaborate?

I'm happy with this as a succinct statement of the biblical view from the first pages of Genesis to the New Testament

 

[MedicBravo]

Eve was the first "help-mate".
Man IS the head of the family but he is required to do his part AND love her as Christ loved the church.
The position is not insinuating "inferior".
The problem is, too many believe that and your making this worse by pushing that nonsense.
Man/husband does NOT go to the wife for his position in the church.
You people do not understand the immense responsibility that Christian men have in building and keeping a family cared for but centered on God.
A true Christian woman accepts her role if she's married or not. The right mindset gets you in the proper place but suggesting God endorses slavery and that women are inferior is laughable.

 

[Rockerduck]

This is order for harmony in a Christian marriage.

1 Corinthians 11:3 - But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

 

[Sue D.]

@ Rockerduck -- yes.

 

[Christ4Ever]

I'm happy with this as a succinct statement of the biblical view from the first pages of Genesis to the New Testament

Dear Brother,
I could not help but respond after reading the above post!
When you said "succinct statement of the biblical view from the first pages of Genesis to the New Testament" I almost fell down laughing, in thinking how the entirety of scripture would be considered "succinct"!

Thank-you for the laugh! Love you brother!
With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[Butch5]

I'm happy with this as a succinct statement of the biblical view from the first pages of Genesis to the New Testament

So, I'm wrong because you said so? Is that your position?

 

[Butch5]

Eve was the first "help-mate".
Man IS the head of the family but he is required to do his part AND love her as Christ loved the church.
The position is not insinuating "inferior".
The problem is, too many believe that and your making this worse by pushing that nonsense.
Man/husband does NOT go to the wife for his position in the church.
You people do not understand the immense responsibility that Christian men have in building and keeping a family cared for but centered on God.
A true Christian woman accepts her role if she's married or not. The right mindset gets you in the proper place but suggesting God endorses slavery and that women are inferior is laughable.

I never suggested that women are inferior. I spoke of the created order. God is the Father, Christ is the first begotten of the Father, thus his role under the Father. Man was Created by God through Christ, thus man's position under Christ. The woman was then taken out of the man, thus her position under man. It has nothing to do with value. It's simply order. Is an employee inferior in value to their boss? No. It's simply a matter of position or rank.

 

[Sue D.]

@ Butch5. Starting with the trinity -- there is the Godhead consisting g of God the Father and then the Son of God and then rhe Holy Spirit. They each have their distinct roles and are equal in importance.
Man was created by God. And God took one of Adam's ribs closest to his heart to be his help meet. Not under him but by his side.
A boss hires people to do a job and pays them. Hires and fires.

 

[Butch5]

@ Butch5. Starting with the trinity -- there is the Godhead consisting g of God the Father and then the Son of God and then rhe Holy Spirit. They each have their distinct roles and are equal in importance.
Man was created by God. And God took one of Adam's ribs closest to his heart to be his help meet. Not under him but by his side.
A boss hires people to do a job and pays them. Hires and fires.

3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God 1 Co 11:2–3 KJV

 

[lentz]

Besides women teaching in the Church, women wearing a veil in a Church service are the two most hotly debated topics in Christianity today.
The early Church had problems concerning the roles of men and women in the Church after Jesus Christ had set both men and women free from the bondage of sin into glorious liberty!

People from all walks of life began filtering into all the churches everywhere. There was a city in which Paul visited called, “Mitylene” (Acts 20:14). Mitylene was a city on the island off the coast of Greece called, “LESBOS”. Lesbos is where we get the word “LESBIAN”. This island of lesbos had a very large group of women who dressed as men and kept their hair “short” like found on a man.

It was an abomination to God for women to wear men's clothing, and for men to wear women's clothing! (Deut 22:5) Men are supposed to look like men, and women are to look like women! This was God's divine order.
There is no doubt that some of these women got saved and became part of one of the churches founded by the Apostle Paul. In this context, Paul addresses the Church at Corinth which was in Greece.

1Co 11:3 But I want you to understand that THE HEAD OF EVERY MAN IS CHRIST, THE HEAD OF A WIFE IS HER HUSBAND, and the HEAD OF CHRIST IS GOD.

1Co 11:4 Every man praying or prophesying, having his HEAD COVERED, dishonoureth his head.
1Co 11:5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with HER HEAD UNCOVERED dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.
1Co 11:6 For if the woman BE NOT COVERED, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.
The problem here is in not understanding what it means to have a head “COVERED” or “UNCOVERED”
Three times in this chapter the word, “HAIR” is referred to. Hair is the subject of this discourse.

1Co 11:14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that if a man has LONG HAIR, it is a shame unto him?
1Co 11:15 But if a woman has LONG HAIR, it is a glory to her: for HER HAIR is GIVEN HER FOR A COVERING.
Then we find that a woman's “LONG HAIR” was given to her for a “COVERING”

What covers, or uncovers a head? Hair!
The entire half chapter is talking about “HAIR”!!
We know it has nothing to do with a cloth-made veil or any kind of hat because God told Moses how the High Priest and other priests served in the Tabernacle that they were required to wear hats!!! (Exo 39:28)

The last time I checked God has made us (as there is no male or female in Christ) (Gal 3:28) to be kings, and priests! (Rev 5:10)
A man praying with his head covered has nothing to do with any kind of veil or hat. It had to do with his hair!!!
Both women and men have hair on their heads, but it is it's “LENGTH” that makes the difference whether it dishonors. Women with “SHORT”, or shaved heads were considered to be immoral, adulterers, and worldly.

Just to make sure we don't get it wrong to what Paul is talking about he says this...

1Co 11:14 DOTH NOT EVEN NATURE ITSELF TEACH YOU, that, IF A MAN HAVE LONG HAIR, IT IS A SHAME UNTO HIM?
1Co 11:15 But IF A WOMAN HAVE LONG HAIR, it is a glory to her: for HER HAIR IS GIVEN HER FOR A COVERING.

A man to have “LONG HAIR” was a shame to him! But a woman with “LONG HAIR” it is her glory, and IT IS HER “COVERING!!!!
For a man to pray with his head “COVERED” means for him to have long hair like a woman which is a shame to him and it dishonors his head which I Christ!

1Co 11:6 For if the woman BE NOT COVERED, let her also be shorn: but if it is a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.
For a woman to “BE NOT COVERED” means she has short hair like a man! You can NOT cut, or shave a piece of cloth material!!!
A woman with long hair is her cover and it is her glory.

Amen
Stay in the buggy brother

 

[backNforth]

From the OP:

Women, church and head coverings​

What does the reader here think?
Does a man feel a woman should in this regard?
Does a woman feel she should in this regard?

What we think or feel is not relevant. Rather, what saith Scripture?

The entire head covering passage is all about the application of proper authority, in terms of proper spiritual alignment, such that we all remain protected. Specifically, in this instance, we're talking about the woman.

The clue is here:

"For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels." (verse 10)

It was a commonly accepted belief that a repeat of the Genesis chapter 6 episode, where fallen angels mated with earthly women, was not only possible but probable. IOW, these rebellious and malevolent angels remain highly desirous of earthly women. And that is why it's still vital to this day that women remain "under cover."

 

[Christ4Ever]

From the OP:

What we think or feel is not relevant. Rather, what saith Scripture?

The entire head covering passage is all about the application of proper authority, in terms of proper spiritual alignment, such that we all remain protected. Specifically, in this instance, we're talking about the woman.

The clue is here:

"For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels." (verse 10)

It was a commonly accepted belief that a repeat of the Genesis chapter 6 episode, where fallen angels mated with earthly women, was not only possible but probable. IOW, these rebellious and malevolent angels remain highly desirous of earthly women. And that is why it's still vital to this day that women remain "under cover."

Dear backNforth,
An interesting insert at the end to the subject at hand.
Thank-you for sharing it.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[B-A-C]

There is also plenty of instruction for men here.

1Cor 11:4; Every man who has something on his head while praying or prophesying disgraces his head.
1Cor 11:5; But every woman who has her head uncovered while praying or prophesying disgraces her head, for she is one and the same as the woman whose head is shaved.
1Cor 11:6; For if a woman does not cover her head, let her also have her hair cut off; but if it is disgraceful for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, let her cover her head.
1Cor 11:7; For a man ought not to have his head covered, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man.
1Cor 11:8; For man does not originate from woman, but woman from man;
1Cor 11:9; for indeed man was not created for the woman's sake, but woman for the man's sake.
1Cor 11:10; Therefore the woman ought to have a symbol of authority on her head, because of the angels.
1Cor 11:11; However, in the Lord, neither is woman independent of man, nor is man independent of woman.
1Cor 11:12; For as the woman originates from the man, so also the man has his birth through the woman; and all things originate from God.
1Cor 11:13; Judge for yourselves: is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered?
1Cor 11:14; Does not even nature itself teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a dishonor to him,
1Cor 11:15; but if a woman has long hair, it is a glory to her? For her hair is given to her for a covering.
1Cor 11:16; But if one is inclined to be contentious, we have no other practice, nor have the churches of God.

I have been married for over half my life now. My wife knows the Lord. Whether she covers her head or not is between her and God.
She does have longer hair than most women, but she rarely wears a hat. On the other hand, I have been in a number of churches where
men pray with their ball caps on and have long hair and man buns. So, while what my wife does is between her and God. What I do is between me and God.
I figure my time is better served serving God in the way I am called, rather than worrying about my wife's head covering.

I wonder about pastors like Robin Bullock, Sean Feucht, and Bruxy Cavey. Will having long hair keep you out of heaven? Probably not, I don't know.
But why deliberately go against the Bible?

Deut 22:5; "A woman shall not wear man's clothing, nor shall a man put on a woman's clothing; for whoever does these things is an abomination to the LORD your God.

The world is trying to confuse everyone's gender as it is... why temp God?

I see a man started this thread about women covering their heads. I don't know if this person is married or not, but...

Matt 7:2; "For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you.
Matt 7:3; "Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?
Matt 7:4; "Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' and behold, the log is in your own eye?
Matt 7:5; "You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.

I certainly hope he doesn't have long hair or wear hats in church, especially while praying or worshipping.

 

[Christ4Ever]

I am with Brother BAC on this, and others as well, and will to this subject and add how Jews are doing with this now.

A little research found the current use below, if you don't like vids (above). Skullcap or yarmulke, pronounced “yamaka”) is a small hat or head covering. In traditional Jewish communities only, men wear kippot (the plural of kippah) and they are worn at all times (except when sleeping and bathing). In non-Orthodox communities some women also wear kippot, and people have different customs about when to wear a kippah — when eating, praying, studying Jewish texts, or entering a sacred space such as a synagogue or cemetery. The Reform movement has historically been opposed to wearing kippot, but in recent years it has become more common and accepted for Reform men and women to cover their heads during prayer and Jewish study.

There is no halakhic (Jewish Law) requirement to cover one’s head, but it is considered a sign of reverence for God. Keeping the head covered at all times has mystical significance, and for this reason some people cover their heads twice — a hat over a kippah, or a tallit (prayer shawl) over a kippah —while praying.

Kippot can be made out of many materials. In traditional Orthodox communities, men wear black velvet or silk kippot, often under hats. In Modern Orthodox, Conservative, and Reform communities it is common to see men wearing leather or crocheted kippot.

Now this doesn't really explain the why, but if you go by the meaning of the word, yamaka which means "fear of God" you might understand the "why" of doing so by Jews and others. Was this custom in use during the times of the early church, or something picked up afterwards I do not know. Maybe a little more research on my part to find out! lol

Otherwise, I do not think God will be judging you on head covering. If you go to a church, then follow the dictates of what they have in place. Don't figure it's your place to be changing what they have been doing or not doing since its establishment in Christ Jesus. If it is such a hangup for you then find a church that accommodates what you believe should be done according to scripture. I am sure if you go to a church that doesn't do it, and you decide to have head covering or not, they won't mind. Just don't feel you should be dictating to others what they should be doing in this unless of course you are establishing a church and decide to implement the requirement for head covering. I believe as long as you don't go putting up walls in your relationship with Him our Lord and Savior, He will be comfortable with the decision you prayerfully make as it pertains to subject.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><